I can deal with the changes that keep pushing back torps, since innately torps have a draw back that keeps them behind. Which is that they get a static 75% damage reduction from any shield facing they impact that is still up (even if it is only one shield hit point), which cause them to vastly less appealing to slot than another beam weapon in most cases.
The information about the 1 shield hit point regarding kinetics is not accurate. @crypticspartan#0627 has posted an explanation of this on these official forums a couple times, but an excellent and recent description can be found here:
Small question, how long does it usually take until Tribble patch stands on holodeck?
Can not wait for it .......
Since I was on Tribble was I see in PVP only everywhere buguser
In pvp (holodeck) warzone kerrat xD
This is not "10% Bonus Damage" like some traits. Omega Kinetic Shearing, even on the current state of Tribble, is always 10% of the damage that would happen before any factor of the target applied in. Omega Kinetic Shearing does not care in any way, shape, or form about the targets shields, directly or indirectly. It is 10% of the damage that the torpedo would have dealt of the target had no shields and no resistances. Even at its state on Tribble, no reputation trait comes close to offering the damage increase it offers.
Let me walk through my reasoning step-by-step and see if I've gone off the rails somewhere.
Comparing Space Traits like astrophysicist (+15 EPG skill) and Reputation traits of similar function like Particle Generator Amplifier (+5% exotic damage) you get the sense that Reputation traits are supposed to be much stronger. Much, MUCH stronger in some cases.
While Omega Kinetic sheering is very nice for sloppy torpedo play where you're vomiting them out as soon as they're off cooldown, the new 10% version doesn't do a heck of a lot for a player who bides their time and drops that torpedo like an anvil on a weakened shield facing. With K-13 giving us Superior Projectile Training (+7.5% all projectile damage) as a space trait, only getting +10% from a reputation trait when you're using your projectiles perfectly seems a little limp.
15% isn't a lot more than 10%, but psychologically it feels much meatier. More significant digits (monkey brains are like that, whatcha gonna do?). 40% was nuts. No argument. Taking it down to 10% seems just a little too harsh of a clip to me. This, coming from the unrelenting enemy of all things shield penetrating.
To quote the 70 Maxims of Maximally effective mercenaries, Maxim 20: If you're not willing to shell your own position, you're not willing to win. The problem isn't that RPfLS is ghoulish - its' that everything else is trivial.
Not sure what this has to do with the common themes in Star Trek.
Out of curiosity, have you made/played a AoY captain? Because every one of those captains has seen the critical moment where RPfLS would have been THE skill to push. I can have life support purring like a kitten for the last 60 seconds of my life, or I can ensure my comrades survive. Choose one.
The idea of sacrifice for victory is pretty much universal in any setting where you fight (and die) for others.
Shame about the grav well damage hit, although nearly 3k at 436 partgens and 73 aux power is a bit much, I agree, dropping GW3 from 1972.8 (-0.25 Repel) on Holodeck to 1405.5 (-0.25 Repel) in the current Tribble version is also a little harsh especially when Tyken's rift 2 goes from 1475.1 (19.4 Drain) in the last Tribble version to 1499.2 (20.5 Drain) in this one with 95 drain skill.
It would also be nice if target subsystem were to "scale more aggressively" with drain skill, -1.1 power (capping at -11) per hit (minus resists of course) at level one is quite the drop from 38 (minus resists) on holodeck.
Small question, how long does it usually take until Tribble patch stands on holodeck?
Can not wait for it .......
Since I was on Tribble was I see in PVP only everywhere buguser
In pvp (holodeck) warzone kerrat xD
We can't say for certain with these changes. The fact that they spun up Redshirt to handle the rollouts of weekly patches tells us that they expect this process to take some time. It's a different build in total, ST.75 vs. ST.71 for Holodeck and Redshirt, so it might also get some other content folded in near the end and become Season 12.5 before release. If that's the case, then I wouldn't expect it to hit Holodeck until late next month, at the earliest.
This is an MMO, not a Star Trek episode simulator. That would make for a terrible game.
Yay...another torp nerf when they're already so bloody useless!
10% of their damage...so in other words 10% of nothing if the target even has the slightest sliver of health. Why the hell do you devs hate torps so much?
??
Spartan's already said that the 10% is 10% of the inherent value of that torp shot before anything having to do with the target factors in. Some 100k torp leaving my ship will do 10k over 6s to the target, not 100k*.25*0.1/6s after shield reduction etc.
Yay...another torp nerf when they're already so bloody useless!
10% of their damage...so in other words 10% of nothing if the target even has the slightest sliver of health. Why the hell do you devs hate torps so much?
??
Spartan's already said that the 10% is 10% of the inherent value of that torp shot before anything having to do with the target factors in. Some 100k torp leaving my ship will do 10k over 6s to the target, not 100k*.25*0.1/6s after shield reduction etc.
If I recall correctly the holodeck version does 40% of the same number so it is a significant hit and an unnecessary one at that given a beamboat can do more damage over less time.
Yay...another torp nerf when they're already so bloody useless!
10% of their damage...so in other words 10% of nothing if the target even has the slightest sliver of health. Why the hell do you devs hate torps so much?
Seriously? Are you still repeating that wrong interpretation of how shields work, after CrypticSpartan has explained it about a dozen times on this forum and reddit together?
No, a sliver of shields does negate very little kinetic damage.
More news perhaps, because apparently this was a change to Omega Kinetic Shearing during AOY, but Spartan did reply on it in this thread you're replying to: The 10 % of damage from Kinetic Shearing is based on unresisted damage from the torpedo attack and is then applied to hull, completely shield penetrating. So in practice it seems it will be better than a 10 % damage buff.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
*The damage Gravity Well and Subspace Vortex deal has been decreased relative to a significant net increase on Tribble
feels like we are going back to the Dark Times before the Rise of Delta when taking a Science Officer into a STF was almost frowned upon due to them being weak.
FBP/GW/SSV all being nerfed.
Hello rubber banding my old friend, time to bounce around the battlezone again, where are all my bug reports going?, out of love with this game I am falling, As Cryptic fail to acknowledge a problem exists, Shakes an angry fist, And from Support all I'm hearing are the sounds of silence.
*The damage Gravity Well and Subspace Vortex deal has been decreased relative to a significant net increase on Tribble
feels like we are going back to the Dark Times before the Rise of Delta when taking a Science Officer into a STF was almost frowned upon due to them being weak.
FBP/GW/SSV all being nerfed.
Well, but so have been FAW, CSV, Plasmonic Leech and Embassy Consoles. There is a new ceiling now (if it works out), so what might have been deemed suboptimal levels of performance before might now be the new top level of performance.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
I personally like Electromagnetic Pulse Probe, it goes well with the Jupiter because with the Fleet Coordination Matrix Console you can give it 20,000 temp hull, 20% more damage, (I don't think the 20% more accuracy does anything for the Probe).
So OSS isn't the only good power in Intel, plus with the Jupiter's trait Intel powers can unleash Transport Warhead I from your pets, which is actually possibly more powerful then the players Transport Warhead III, because it end up applying to 4 to 12 torpedoes depending on the type of pets your using, which can be enough to destroy a target ship by itself in the case of more numerous pets and pets with tricolbalts.
Well, but so have been FAW, CSV, Plasmonic Leech and Embassy Consoles.
I'm still seeing FAW ships hitting 160k+ in PUG Tribble ISAs. Well they're not really total PUGs in the sense that everyone is dealing pretty high damage, but they are a formed from the public queue from random players. It just so happens the ones testing are the DPS'ers.
I can see FAW probably hitting high 100k's or even low 200ks with some better coordination via premades.
Edit: I think the levels of GW, SSV and TBR are mostly ok, but DRB would need to be buffed a bit in my opinion. That skill is relatively high CD, requires to be aimed, and requires that you keep your nose into the target during its entire duration to get the most effect. There should be a bit more pay-off from it.
Well, but so have been FAW, CSV, Plasmonic Leech and Embassy Consoles.
I'm still seeing FAW ships hitting 160k+ in PUG Tribble ISAs. Well they're not really total PUGs in the sense that everyone is dealing pretty high damage, but they are a formed from the public queue from random players. It just so happens the ones testing are the DPS'ers.
I can see FAW probably hitting high 100k's or even low 200ks with some better coordination via premades.
The more interesting question would be to see if also non-BFAW builds get there now. All the talk about "nerfed into the ground" and "utterly useless" is of course just that - talk. In the end, the goal is balance, not having stuff that used to be good be the worst option now.
Edit: I think the levels of GW, SSV and TBR are mostly ok, but DRB would need to be buffed a bit in my opinion. That skill is relatively high CD, requires to be aimed, and requires that you keep your nose into the target during its entire duration to get the most effect. There should be a bit more pay-off from it.
I tend to agree with DRB. On its own, it can't guarantee that it actually hits its target. Maybe lowering the cooldown is actually a better option then increasing its damage?
TBR I haven't tried yet. It has the "problem" that the base version is basically working hard to ensure that it can't deal its own damage by pushing the enemy away. The reverse TBR DOFF makes it work to deal damage. The push version could perhaps use a bit more damage... The pull version not.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
The more interesting question would be to see if also non-BFAW builds get there now. All the talk about "nerfed into the ground" and "utterly useless" is of course just that - talk. In the end, the goal is balance, not having stuff that used to be good be the worst option now.
CSV ships could probably get close since I've seen them hit the 150k range as well. Before SSV and GW were re-nerfed, exotic damage builds were around that area too. Right now I'm sitting in the high 90 to low 100k range which is fine given that I am a Sci, and the 150k+ guys are Tacs. The builds themselves probably aren't far apart.
I'm not so sure about shorter CDs for DRB. DRB works best with GW, so a shorter CD could mean you can fire it more often, but it may not be any more effective.
Now that there is less proc chance, and that we've had many an omnidirectional beam array enter the fray, and given the firing arc general rules that the bigger the arcs the smaller the dps and vice versa, can you boost turret dmg please? Maybe don't boost it as high as the Omni beams in the interest of fair play to the already nerfed faw users out there.
Can I just say that after spending some time with a calculator, anyone would be able to find that to broadside with the most base dmg on a 4/4 loadout, 4 single cannons and 4 beam arrays are best. Now, when you couple this load out with the rebalanced faw 1 and csv 1, it's doing more dps than a 4/4 build with 4 single cannons and 4 turrets. But you might say 'but they're turrets though, they are omnidirectional and means they must have the least dps'. And since thats the case, why do omnidirectional beam arrays have more?
This sort of imbalance devalues turrets and makes full cannon/turret builds continue to be obsolete by being heavily devalued by omnidirectional beam arrays. After all, it seems silly to have to use the above mixed cannon and beam array load out but that is the best raw dmg and faw/csv modified dps since you've kept 360° turrets at half the value of 360° beams.
*The damage Gravity Well and Subspace Vortex deal has been decreased relative to a significant net increase on Tribble
feels like we are going back to the Dark Times before the Rise of Delta when taking a Science Officer into a STF was almost frowned upon due to them being weak.
FBP/GW/SSV all being nerfed.
What you mean weak? Before Delta, I was doing 10k dps, but did not feel weak in the ONE mission against ONE AI Type. If fact I felt useful, even with my "low" dps build. debuffing the AI, knocking shields offline, CC the whole npc mobs together, only made the team better and help[ those tacts.
I think the community needs to like stop think that mashing spacebar, and faw etc, is the ONLY way to complete a mission.
DPS is not what the game is about, and any who frowns upon a player for not doing enough "Dps" is just an TRIBBLE.
"Frankly, not sure why you're on a one man nerf campaign. "
Stick a total dps stacking penalty on everybody like we have stacking resistance penalties. That way, limits to dps and survivability is mitigated by actual fun builds rather than drab 'space bar and forget ' which even after faw nerf is still the case.
Regarding the upgrade of the pets A.I., can pets get "full impulse" to be able to follow the player when he moves around the map at full impulse? Right now it is still possible to "loose" pets if you are too fast, and I think a shuttle/pet should have full impulse available to it.
A zero cost way for Cryptic to finance and expand the foundry
Still no patch notes about this by the way. I'm not sure they will ever explain what they're trying to accomplish with these changes. I suppose I should just prepare for everything to get darker.
Still no patch notes about this by the way. I'm not sure they will ever explain what they're trying to accomplish with these changes. I suppose I should just prepare for everything to get darker.
But with unclearable OSS...periodic 5 seconds without weapons can kill your DPS. 5 seconds without shields can make you dead (same as 5 seconds without engines in some situations). The only situation I can even think of to use that version of OSS is if you have about 20 seconds left in an encounter and hit it...surely not worth a BO skill slot.
The DPS argument is always weak. As for 5 secs without shields, just ask the PvP guys. They sometimes run up to 30 secs without shields and they stay alive fine.
Frankly, if you debuff yourself for a massive buff, you should be prepared for the consequences.
Right now I'm more concerned that on top of all the nerfs to science, it seems the sci ultimate got knocked down to 15 secs uptime from 30 secs.
So after some testing and plenty ISA Run´s i need to say "Thump´s UP" nice work you Nerf Sci´s to ground.
When i count Pets out im on DPS Los around 40-50k DPS.
Norm Run´s atm on Holodeck are 100-120k+ ,Splits up to 160k+,Pugs around 90-100k+
Best Hit so Far atm on Tribble 89k and Lowest 62k,and that with People that know what they do.On my 89k DPS Run my Pets done 40k DPS.If the Run go fast i go more down on End Dps.
Hey but OK bring New Ships with a new DPS Trait and a New Weapon for Tac´s when they use a Ship with Commander Tac Slot.
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
Comments
The information about the 1 shield hit point regarding kinetics is not accurate. @crypticspartan#0627 has posted an explanation of this on these official forums a couple times, but an excellent and recent description can be found here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/sto/comments/614udv/tribble_maintenance_and_release_notes_march_23/dfcyw09/
Small question, how long does it usually take until Tribble patch stands on holodeck?
Can not wait for it .......
Since I was on Tribble was I see in PVP only everywhere buguser
In pvp (holodeck) warzone kerrat xD
Greets
@ekypyros
Let me walk through my reasoning step-by-step and see if I've gone off the rails somewhere.
Comparing Space Traits like astrophysicist (+15 EPG skill) and Reputation traits of similar function like Particle Generator Amplifier (+5% exotic damage) you get the sense that Reputation traits are supposed to be much stronger. Much, MUCH stronger in some cases.
While Omega Kinetic sheering is very nice for sloppy torpedo play where you're vomiting them out as soon as they're off cooldown, the new 10% version doesn't do a heck of a lot for a player who bides their time and drops that torpedo like an anvil on a weakened shield facing. With K-13 giving us Superior Projectile Training (+7.5% all projectile damage) as a space trait, only getting +10% from a reputation trait when you're using your projectiles perfectly seems a little limp.
15% isn't a lot more than 10%, but psychologically it feels much meatier. More significant digits (monkey brains are like that, whatcha gonna do?). 40% was nuts. No argument. Taking it down to 10% seems just a little too harsh of a clip to me. This, coming from the unrelenting enemy of all things shield penetrating.
Out of curiosity, have you made/played a AoY captain? Because every one of those captains has seen the critical moment where RPfLS would have been THE skill to push. I can have life support purring like a kitten for the last 60 seconds of my life, or I can ensure my comrades survive. Choose one.
The idea of sacrifice for victory is pretty much universal in any setting where you fight (and die) for others.
It would also be nice if target subsystem were to "scale more aggressively" with drain skill, -1.1 power (capping at -11) per hit (minus resists of course) at level one is quite the drop from 38 (minus resists) on holodeck.
We can't say for certain with these changes. The fact that they spun up Redshirt to handle the rollouts of weekly patches tells us that they expect this process to take some time. It's a different build in total, ST.75 vs. ST.71 for Holodeck and Redshirt, so it might also get some other content folded in near the end and become Season 12.5 before release. If that's the case, then I wouldn't expect it to hit Holodeck until late next month, at the earliest.
Rouge Sto Wiki Editor.
??
Spartan's already said that the 10% is 10% of the inherent value of that torp shot before anything having to do with the target factors in. Some 100k torp leaving my ship will do 10k over 6s to the target, not 100k*.25*0.1/6s after shield reduction etc.
If I recall correctly the holodeck version does 40% of the same number so it is a significant hit and an unnecessary one at that given a beamboat can do more damage over less time.
No, a sliver of shields does negate very little kinetic damage.
More news perhaps, because apparently this was a change to Omega Kinetic Shearing during AOY, but Spartan did reply on it in this thread you're replying to: The 10 % of damage from Kinetic Shearing is based on unresisted damage from the torpedo attack and is then applied to hull, completely shield penetrating. So in practice it seems it will be better than a 10 % damage buff.
feels like we are going back to the Dark Times before the Rise of Delta when taking a Science Officer into a STF was almost frowned upon due to them being weak.
FBP/GW/SSV all being nerfed.
Hello rubber banding my old friend, time to bounce around the battlezone again, where are all my bug reports going?, out of love with this game I am falling, As Cryptic fail to acknowledge a problem exists, Shakes an angry fist, And from Support all I'm hearing are the sounds of silence.
Well, but so have been FAW, CSV, Plasmonic Leech and Embassy Consoles. There is a new ceiling now (if it works out), so what might have been deemed suboptimal levels of performance before might now be the new top level of performance.
So OSS isn't the only good power in Intel, plus with the Jupiter's trait Intel powers can unleash Transport Warhead I from your pets, which is actually possibly more powerful then the players Transport Warhead III, because it end up applying to 4 to 12 torpedoes depending on the type of pets your using, which can be enough to destroy a target ship by itself in the case of more numerous pets and pets with tricolbalts.
I can see FAW probably hitting high 100k's or even low 200ks with some better coordination via premades.
Edit: I think the levels of GW, SSV and TBR are mostly ok, but DRB would need to be buffed a bit in my opinion. That skill is relatively high CD, requires to be aimed, and requires that you keep your nose into the target during its entire duration to get the most effect. There should be a bit more pay-off from it.
| USS Curiosity - Pathfinder | USS Rift - Eternal |
The Science Ship Build Thread - Share your Sci Ship builds here!
I tend to agree with DRB. On its own, it can't guarantee that it actually hits its target. Maybe lowering the cooldown is actually a better option then increasing its damage?
TBR I haven't tried yet. It has the "problem" that the base version is basically working hard to ensure that it can't deal its own damage by pushing the enemy away. The reverse TBR DOFF makes it work to deal damage. The push version could perhaps use a bit more damage... The pull version not.
CSV ships could probably get close since I've seen them hit the 150k range as well. Before SSV and GW were re-nerfed, exotic damage builds were around that area too. Right now I'm sitting in the high 90 to low 100k range which is fine given that I am a Sci, and the 150k+ guys are Tacs. The builds themselves probably aren't far apart.
I'm not so sure about shorter CDs for DRB. DRB works best with GW, so a shorter CD could mean you can fire it more often, but it may not be any more effective.
| USS Curiosity - Pathfinder | USS Rift - Eternal |
The Science Ship Build Thread - Share your Sci Ship builds here!
Now that there is less proc chance, and that we've had many an omnidirectional beam array enter the fray, and given the firing arc general rules that the bigger the arcs the smaller the dps and vice versa, can you boost turret dmg please? Maybe don't boost it as high as the Omni beams in the interest of fair play to the already nerfed faw users out there.
Can I just say that after spending some time with a calculator, anyone would be able to find that to broadside with the most base dmg on a 4/4 loadout, 4 single cannons and 4 beam arrays are best. Now, when you couple this load out with the rebalanced faw 1 and csv 1, it's doing more dps than a 4/4 build with 4 single cannons and 4 turrets. But you might say 'but they're turrets though, they are omnidirectional and means they must have the least dps'. And since thats the case, why do omnidirectional beam arrays have more?
This sort of imbalance devalues turrets and makes full cannon/turret builds continue to be obsolete by being heavily devalued by omnidirectional beam arrays. After all, it seems silly to have to use the above mixed cannon and beam array load out but that is the best raw dmg and faw/csv modified dps since you've kept 360° turrets at half the value of 360° beams.
http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/startrekonline#/discussion/1229464/the-tribble-space-changes-feedback-thread/p5
What you mean weak? Before Delta, I was doing 10k dps, but did not feel weak in the ONE mission against ONE AI Type. If fact I felt useful, even with my "low" dps build. debuffing the AI, knocking shields offline, CC the whole npc mobs together, only made the team better and help[ those tacts.
I think the community needs to like stop think that mashing spacebar, and faw etc, is the ONLY way to complete a mission.
DPS is not what the game is about, and any who frowns upon a player for not doing enough "Dps" is just an TRIBBLE.
https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/startrekonline#/discussion/1247522/foundry-sunset-april-11th-2019/p15
Look at my post about a Foundry Ship
BRING BACK THE FOUNDRY!
As I prefer to "test" on something closer to what I am eventually going to see on Holodeck, than look at things still being hashed out.
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
I hope not, because that would mean we're also close to getting the unannounced graphics changes.
Holodeck 03/15/2017: http://imgur.com/a/i01fc
Tribble 03/15/2017: http://imgur.com/a/BAU1f
Still no patch notes about this by the way. I'm not sure they will ever explain what they're trying to accomplish with these changes. I suppose I should just prepare for everything to get darker.
https://www.reddit.com/r/sto/comments/60kkxl/pc_alarming_gfx_ingame_control_settings/df7oz48/
Well, you already know that I think things are already so dark in this game.....and Lighting 2.0 is too glare-y.
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
The DPS argument is always weak. As for 5 secs without shields, just ask the PvP guys. They sometimes run up to 30 secs without shields and they stay alive fine.
Frankly, if you debuff yourself for a massive buff, you should be prepared for the consequences.
Right now I'm more concerned that on top of all the nerfs to science, it seems the sci ultimate got knocked down to 15 secs uptime from 30 secs.
When i count Pets out im on DPS Los around 40-50k DPS.
Norm Run´s atm on Holodeck are 100-120k+ ,Splits up to 160k+,Pugs around 90-100k+
Best Hit so Far atm on Tribble 89k and Lowest 62k,and that with People that know what they do.On my 89k DPS Run my Pets done 40k DPS.If the Run go fast i go more down on End Dps.
Hey but OK bring New Ships with a new DPS Trait and a New Weapon for Tac´s when they use a Ship with Commander Tac Slot.
Tribble (Patch 1)
Grav well: 2756.8 (-0.24 Repel)
Tribble (Patch 2)
Grav well: 1405.5 (-0.25 Repel)
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"