With the hence & forth on Plasmonic Leech, here is an idea that will likely be unpopular:
Why is Plasmonic Leech an always on passive? Most console abilities are clickies. It seems much easier to balance if it was like a Subsystem Targeting power that buffs your shots for a while with an energy drain that also grants you power levels. It could be more effective then it's now when it's active, but it would not be on all the time. It would still be a potent addition to any drain build.
Mustrum "I should go back to Tribble for more feedback and not more brainstorming" Ridcully
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
With the hence & forth on Plasmonic Leech, here is an idea that will likely be unpopular:
Why is Plasmonic Leech an always on passive? Most console abilities are clickies. It seems much easier to balance if it was like a Subsystem Targeting power that buffs your shots for a while with an energy drain that also grants you power levels. It could be more effective then it's now when it's active, but it would not be on all the time. It would still be a potent addition to any drain build.
I always wondered that, too. Let it stack with the MACO set passive and scale with drain - just give it a 30s uptime and 2 minute cooldown like almost every other console from that era. @lucho80 thoughts?
Anyone tried some Tribble PvP?
Any active or formerly active PvPers here? Can you forsee a scenario where you would not slot a Subnucleonic Beam if you only had that one Lt.Cmdr Science(or Universal) slot for your ship?
I've mostly thought about how it feel to not have SNB anymore as Science Captain and how DO alters my exerience, but this is the other side of the coin of the change, isn't it?
I did some solo PvP on Holodeck with a Science Captain, and realized that without SNB, I could have probably not defeat my sparring partner. (And my sparring partner was ultimately very undergeared - he could basically only kill me if he managed to exhaust all my cheat traits and gear with repeated attacks and I didn't do anything to counter it with BO powers... So I doubt his defensive equipment has been much better.)
I stopped doing PvP regularly a while ago. While most of the changes from Spartan are good in the sense I would try again, making SNB a boff power is a pain. My sci captain drain build now would have to trade a drain ability that I have slotted in order to give up that space for SNB. Note that my drain build only uses one sci boff with 3 deflector doffs. I loose a very good drain ability just so I can try and defeat my opponent because without using SNB first, people go crazy using every debuff clearing known.
]...] Engineering
Was it considered to make an additional Engineering buff castable on others? Miracle Worker, Rotate Shield Frequency or Nadion Inversion - it would enable Engineers to also provide a strong support role, but not stop them from being self-sufficient.
If you ask engineering captains what they want to play, you almost never hear "support".
I, for one, would love to have Engineering captains have the option to play more of a support role. Making these buffs usable on teammates would give Engineers that option -- and make them much more useful in a team setup.
So after some actual testing I find that the damage output on my warbird has been slashed by over 60%!!! And I struggle even to pull 100K DPS on my best day in the live game!
That is the cumulative effect of all these irresponsible nerfs. The min-maxers will take a hit, but still be able to output monster DPS levels, while those of us who dare to do something different get completely crippled by it.
As I said, my fun is clearly "wrong". *shakes head*
Agree.
I choose to run cannons in a world where beams rule.
The changes to a cannon's firing cycle hurt like crazy as now we have that handicap in addition to already being handicapped by the firing arc. It's like a double wham and a final nail in the cannon's coffin.
If they want variety, they should leave the firing cycle as it was for cannons and simply work to keep it even with beams in final output and damage.
So, after some actual testing, I find that the damage output on my warbird has been slashed by over 60%. I struggle even to pull 100K DPS on my best day in the live game!
That is the cumulative effect of all these irresponsible nerfs. The min-maxers will take a hit, but still be able to output monster DPS levels, while those of us who dare to do something different get completely crippled by it.
As I said, my fun is clearly "wrong".
Nah, it's the cumulative effect of finally addressing things that have been let get too far out of whack for years and making apparent how far power creep has gone.
]...] Engineering
Was it considered to make an additional Engineering buff castable on others? Miracle Worker, Rotate Shield Frequency or Nadion Inversion - it would enable Engineers to also provide a strong support role, but not stop them from being self-sufficient.
If you ask engineering captains what they want to play, you almost never hear "support".
I, for one, would love to have Engineering captains have the option to play more of a support role. Making these buffs usable on teammates would give Engineers that option -- and make them much more useful in a team setup.
I'd love to play support in such a way...any of those abilities that sit unused for a mission are just being wasted. Engineers should have a way to support other than simply being the most effective sponge...because that doesn't matter if tacs can generate more threat and thus be a better tank.
The change to to the Torpedo buffs that makes the buff only appy to the next 10 seconds is a real problem with ships that use torpedoes with long cooldowns, I think. Coupled with the limited firing arc, you will often end up basically using the buff or the torpedo at suboptimal durations.
I see that there is some concern with double-tapping, but is it really a big issue? Maybe it could be changed in a way that you can not "double-tap" the same ability, but can still double tap by following a HYT with a TS or vice versa. Maybe just extending it to something like 20 seconds would already be sufficient.
Beam Overload Change
The change to Beam Ovrerload has one big drawback, as much as I like the idea: It means that you can't really use Beam overload as well as a spike buff, or at least lose a lot more than you used to when doing so.
I know from my PvP days in the ancient pre-Romulan Expansion times, that a viable spike damage build was combining a Beam Overload on a single DBB with Cannon Rapid Fire on 3 Dual Heavy Cannons. That was already a bit of a compromise, because a precious front weapon slot didn't benefit from the CRF buff, but the BO was worth it. But now, you're basically also losing the Beam Overload buff on 3 precious front weapon slots if you did that. Obviously, you could also do something similar with a torpedo build (back then, that was not really viable, today it's different.)
The change implemented right now will make Beam Overload in a viable multi-beam buff (probably), but it will lose its importance as source of spike damage. It seems it would then also more directly compete with BFAW - likely one of the powers will turn out to be a bit better than the other, and so one will simply fall by the wayside again.
Maybe it would be better if Beam Overload would buff multiple shots of a single beam?
Maybe this could also be a distinguishing mark between CSV and CRF - something to make weapon combinations more viable. (Kinda like how Torpedo buffs only buff one torpedo launch and not all, meaing that a single launcher could be a viable addition to increase your spike damage.)
Common "problem" with Torpedo Buffs and Beam Overload Buffs
It's not possible to tell the buff which of your weapons are too be buffed. You have to basically disable auto-fire and then micro-manage your shots to ensure that the "right" weapon gets buffed, or get your weapons to fire in the right rythm so that the weapon you want to get the buff always fires first once the buff is running.
Obviously, this rewards skill, but does it reward the skill enough compared to other buffs? Comparitively, BFAW is easy to use - the challenge is mostly related to positioning yourself right, but that is a challenge you can have with HYT, TS and BO, too.
I don't know if there is a solution to simplify this in some manner, it would probably require something for the UI and not just a mechanical change. But I thought I should bring it up.
How about an all-Torpedo Buff?
Even though I critisized the Beam Overload change a few paragraphs above, still an aspect to consider: What if one of the torpedo buffs would actually affect all torpedo launchers, like BFAW, Cannon Rapid Fire, Surgical Strikes and now the new Beam Overload affect multiple weapons? This would mean there is actually a buff that benefits a build focused on torpedoes, and maybe it would be a way to make standard torpedoes more relevant compared to all the speciality torpedoes.
Maybe this is something more for a completely different and new skill. It would be a signfiicant change for both skills, and there are lots of interactions with traits and powers to consider. Hmm.
I guess Kemocite is this already to some extent (though it does buff more than just torpedoes.)
B:O was good reason of adding DBB to cannon ship. ST:O lack any variery of builds, we have "beamboats", "cannonboats" or rare "torpedoboats", but mixes are rare because of how weapon bufs work. B:O allowed to add beam to non-beam ship without crippling the build. After these changes, BO cannot be effectively used on non-beamboats, since majority of it's power was moved to 10s buff to beams...
Yes, Beamboats need some skill to "emulate" old BFAW effectiveness against single targets - but it should be NEW skill. BO already have it's niche, it's purpose and is valuable addition to game giving use nice variety of builds based on this skill.
If reason behind this skill revamp is increasing number of available effective build options, keeping old BO and adding new general-buff skill to beams will be step into good direction.
Or, just allow the 10s of it's buff to apply to all energy weapons...seems like that would fix the issue pretty well.
The change to to the Torpedo buffs that makes the buff only appy to the next 10 seconds is a real problem with ships that use torpedoes with long cooldowns, I think. Coupled with the limited firing arc, you will often end up basically using the buff or the torpedo at suboptimal durations.
I see that there is some concern with double-tapping, but is it really a big issue? Maybe it could be changed in a way that you can not "double-tap" the same ability, but can still double tap by following a HYT with a TS or vice versa. Maybe just extending it to something like 20 seconds would already be sufficient.
Beam Overload Change
The change to Beam Ovrerload has one big drawback, as much as I like the idea: It means that you can't really use Beam overload as well as a spike buff, or at least lose a lot more than you used to when doing so.
I know from my PvP days in the ancient pre-Romulan Expansion times, that a viable spike damage build was combining a Beam Overload on a single DBB with Cannon Rapid Fire on 3 Dual Heavy Cannons. That was already a bit of a compromise, because a precious front weapon slot didn't benefit from the CRF buff, but the BO was worth it. But now, you're basically also losing the Beam Overload buff on 3 precious front weapon slots if you did that. Obviously, you could also do something similar with a torpedo build (back then, that was not really viable, today it's different.)
The change implemented right now will make Beam Overload in a viable multi-beam buff (probably), but it will lose its importance as source of spike damage. It seems it would then also more directly compete with BFAW - likely one of the powers will turn out to be a bit better than the other, and so one will simply fall by the wayside again.
Maybe it would be better if Beam Overload would buff multiple shots of a single beam?
Maybe this could also be a distinguishing mark between CSV and CRF - something to make weapon combinations more viable. (Kinda like how Torpedo buffs only buff one torpedo launch and not all, meaing that a single launcher could be a viable addition to increase your spike damage.)
Common "problem" with Torpedo Buffs and Beam Overload Buffs
It's not possible to tell the buff which of your weapons are too be buffed. You have to basically disable auto-fire and then micro-manage your shots to ensure that the "right" weapon gets buffed, or get your weapons to fire in the right rythm so that the weapon you want to get the buff always fires first once the buff is running.
Obviously, this rewards skill, but does it reward the skill enough compared to other buffs? Comparitively, BFAW is easy to use - the challenge is mostly related to positioning yourself right, but that is a challenge you can have with HYT, TS and BO, too.
I don't know if there is a solution to simplify this in some manner, it would probably require something for the UI and not just a mechanical change. But I thought I should bring it up.
How about an all-Torpedo Buff?
Even though I critisized the Beam Overload change a few paragraphs above, still an aspect to consider: What if one of the torpedo buffs would actually affect all torpedo launchers, like BFAW, Cannon Rapid Fire, Surgical Strikes and now the new Beam Overload affect multiple weapons? This would mean there is actually a buff that benefits a build focused on torpedoes, and maybe it would be a way to make standard torpedoes more relevant compared to all the speciality torpedoes.
Maybe this is something more for a completely different and new skill. It would be a signfiicant change for both skills, and there are lots of interactions with traits and powers to consider. Hmm.
I guess Kemocite is this already to some extent (though it does buff more than just torpedoes.)
B:O was good reason of adding DBB to cannon ship. ST:O lack any variery of builds, we have "beamboats", "cannonboats" or rare "torpedoboats", but mixes are rare because of how weapon bufs work. B:O allowed to add beam to non-beam ship without crippling the build. After these changes, BO cannot be effectively used on non-beamboats, since majority of it's power was moved to 10s buff to beams...
Yes, Beamboats need some skill to "emulate" old BFAW effectiveness against single targets - but it should be NEW skill. BO already have it's niche, it's purpose and is valuable addition to game giving use nice variety of builds based on this skill.
If reason behind this skill revamp is increasing number of available effective build options, keeping old BO and adding new general-buff skill to beams will be step into good direction.
Or, just allow the 10s of it's buff to apply to all energy weapons...seems like that would fix the issue pretty well.
Do You really want to turn BO + CRF combo to staple PvP build? On the other hand, if you make cannon buffs and BO exclusive, then BO will be useless again. It is wrong direction, BO should stay as it is (always crit, no buff), and new Beam ability should be added (DPS buff to all beams vs single target for 10s)
I haven't seen any feedback on Boarding Party outside of chat yet. I am running a copy of Boarding Party III on a Vor'cha Retrofit, using the Duty Officers who have a chance to arm the shuttles, spawn additional shuttles, and reduce the recharge time for the shuttles.
Boarding Party shuttles should fly much faster at their target
Admittedly, it's been a long time since I used this ability on Holodeck, but I have a hard time believing this is "much faster", they seem just as slow as I remember them being. In fact, they're having a hard time reaching their target at all!
Boarding Party shuttles now have a very high amount of physical and kinetic resistance
They're not dying often at all, good work here.
The increased recharge effect is now guaranteed on weapons if the shuttles reach the target
The damage dealt by their point defense turrets has been increased
The chance to inflict recharge to bridge officer abilities no longer scales with rank, but the duration of that delay does
The chance to take a subsystem offline no longer scales with rank, but the duration now does
The duration of that subsystem offline now scales with the owner's Drain Expertise
As mentioned, they're having a hard time reaching their targets, so I haven't really been able to evaluate anything here other than their point defense turrets, which I guess are comparable to other pets. I parsed them at 3k in an ISA run, which is about what each ship called by the Delta Alliance Reinforcements Beacon did. I didn't see how many of the shuttles launched were armed, so this number could be an outlier.
On paper, the change to the subsystem disable chance and duration makes that aspect of the ability worse than Holodeck on the character I'm testing with. Due to the Plasmonic Leech and Plasma-Generating console changes, I'm no longer boosting Drain Expertise with my Science slots, putting the recharge increase at 5 seconds and the subsystem disable at 8. According to the wiki, the current values for Rank III is an 83% chance to disable a subsystem for 10 seconds and add 4 seconds to recharge times. But again, this is just speculation, I'd really like to see how it performs when the shuttles are actually sped up to the point they can reach their target.
Also, I'd like to make a request here: If the shuttles' target is destroyed, could they automatically retarget to another one, like destructible torpedoes do? Right now they just sit in place, which is neat for armed shuttles, but useless for unarmed.
Edit: Felt I should mention, I'm testing this in the Tau Dewa patrols on Advanced difficulty. The Romulan NPCs and the shuttles themselves are often killing targets before the shuttles reach them, even with no intervention on my part. I wasn't even sure if the shuttles could land at first.
While most of the changes from Spartan are good in the sense I would try again, making SNB a boff power is a pain.
Well.. its a big mistake and a lot of Pll. wrote this.
Its not to late to fix that.. but Spartan dont want hear that.. really sad.
Btw.
What do you think about a Cap for shield bleedthrough and Hull Pen. I meen.. in PvP shields are most useless these days.. and tba. Hull pen is to strong. A Cap. for both would be nice.
I lost subnucleonic beam and it was replaced with nothing. The new deflector power was not available for testing. This captain has no skill retraining tokens available, so I am stuck without it.
I lost subnucleonic beam and it was replaced with nothing. The new deflector power was not available for testing. This captain has no skill retraining tokens available, so I am stuck without it.
On Tribble, you can get Retrain Tokens for free at Drozana station from one of the consoles.
Can we see any changes to the dps and durability of deployables other than carrier pets such as weapon platforms, command platforms, saucers, multivector bots etc?
My command platforms disappear in about 5 seconds when they're supposed to last 45 seconds. Something really could be done to buff these.
What sort of numerical change is being seen with cannon weaponry? Traditionally, if I understood this correctly, the cycle time of the DHC in particular made over capping less advantageous in comparison to beams but had a benefit of how the energy returned.
What do you think about a Cap for shield bleedthrough and Hull Pen. I meen.. in PvP shields are most useless these days.. and tba. Hull pen is to strong. A Cap. for both would be nice.
Shields have been garbage for a long time. In PvP I can pretty much kill peoples shields quickly and they still fly around like nothing using other survival means.
It seems to me that Shield Penetration is very important to make torpedoes relevant in PvE (and maybe also PvP), but it's just too good for energy weapons. I like the idea that torps deal less damage against shields, but maybe it is something that needs to be tweaked a bit, though that would be a huge deal.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Personally, I think the Shield Weakening skill was fine and we didn't need it for more Penetration, though.
Regarding the single target damage of HYT - I could see that they don't want to make the burst damage per shot too high, it can be particularly excessive in PvP if it is. (No one cries when NPCs blow up ) I believe I suggested it before, but one give HYT the Beam OVerload treatment and have it also buff all torpedo attacks for the next 15 seconds or so. It won't help people that use just one torpedo, but it becomes more interesting with torpedo builds since you finally have a buff that actually helps all your torpedo launchers then.
That reminds me, the Terran Task Force Ammunition Set bonus with the Secondary Torpedo Launcher feature still sucks. The original idea sounded a lot better, even if the implementation was broken.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Destabilizing Resonance Beam as a channeling power requires continuous targeting and can be interrupted by fast moving enemies or, for example, teleporting Undine ships or 180 degree immune Vot. Compare this against Gravity Well and Subspace Vortex. While all 3 powers are big damage dealers on Holodeck (and I understand the balance need to reduce the damage of these science abilities), GW and SSV are essentially "fire and forget" powers while DRB requires some additional skill component (and luck against certain enemies) to use and - especially - maintain to maximize its usefulness.
The current state of DRB on Tribble is that it has lost about half of the damage it was dealing on Holodeck (DRB3: Holodeck: 1908 -> Tribble: 997 @ 383 EPG and 108 Aux).
To account for the additional channeling component, the following are some proposed changes to the power to make it a little easier to use, without completely removing the unique channeling aspect:
Idea #1: Channeling time for DRB is reduced from 10 seconds to 5 seconds with the damage and debuff stats doubled so as to keep the overall performance equal at full stacks.
Idea #2: Channeling time for DRB is reduced as the BOFF power rank increases (so 10 sec for DRB1, 8 sec for DRB2, 5 sec for DRB3) - with corresponding damage and debuff stat adjustments to ensure same overall performance.
In my opinion, either of the above changes would better facilitate the use of DRB as an effective debuff tool (Science!) that also happens to cause moderate damage.
If adjusting the channeling time is either technically not do-able or not desired for other gameplay design reasons, then lastly...
Idea #3: Leave channeling time alone, but slightly buff the damage back up a bit.
Thanks in advance for your consideration of this feedback!
Note: These comments were posted in the first Tribble Maintenance and Release Notes post, but I wanted to make sure they were noted in the Official Feedback Thread:
The problem in team combat is that too easily do tacticals gain the upper hand in regards to pulling more threat than the other classes even after the tribble changes. The implications of this is that engineer tank and heal skills become worthless in team battle queues. What would really address the issue with engineering captains not being able to use their skills as effectively as the other classes is if we saw a huge drop in threat generated by dps, to the point where a tanking engineer wanting to use his heals does so to much greater effect.
If we're talking about the correct kind of fun, then tacticals ofcourse should be dealing the big dmg, whilst engineer players should enjoy actually being targeted so their skills don't go to waste.
There's no point in buffing these engineering skills in this rebalance pass if they can't actually use them to their fullest extent!
null This might demand a redesign of the threat generating system or just a few modifications:
Increased threat generation is a multiplication of threat% with every point of dmg. The implications of this is that most tacticals with high dmg numbers and low threat% within player groups would generate more total threat than an engineer with low dmg numbers and higher threat%.
To top that off, the 'meta' is changing. Threat reducing embassy consoles may no longer be as popular. And for a tactical captains to no longer use threat reducing consoles makes the above problem a lot more apparent because they'll be generating even more threat over engineers. This devalues engineer player pve gameplay significantly.
I hope the devs read this and take on board this most imminent threat!
As a PvP-Player i would say we need a Cap. for..
Speed
Shield Bleedthrough
Hull. Pen.
.. it would be nice.
btw.
This SNB should be only for SCI Captains and not a BO-Skill.. still dont like that chance. Its not importent in PvE.. but was one of the Reasons to play a Sci in PvP and works for Years really good. No need to chance that.. . Im not the only one to wrote this.. a lot of Guys wrote this.. . Its not to late.. just stop that.
Just a suggestion: how about tweaking the Gather Intelligence ability on Intel ships to require less stacks to make a target vulnerable? Like say, 10 instead of 15?
As a PvP-Player i would say we need a Cap. for..
Speed
Shield Bleedthrough
Hull. Pen.
.. it would be nice.
I don't mind caps on Shield and Hull Pen but a cap on speed is something I take issue with, in fact, if you're using DHCs then a speed upwards of 80 can be a detriment rather than an asset, not to mention the defence stat from speed has a cap although I forget where it is. That said, it would be nice if non-target-able torps got a speed increase like their target-able counterparts and if there was an easier way to target high speed targets as that aspect of speed builds is a serious pain.
On the subject of the current Tribble build, I have this to say (note: also posted in the notes thread):
Shame about the grav well damage hit, although nearly 3k at 436 partgens and 73 aux power is a bit much, I agree, dropping GW3 from 1972.8 (-0.25 Repel) on Holodeck to 1405.5 (-0.25 Repel) in the current Tribble version is also a little harsh especially when Tyken's rift 2 goes from 1475.1 (19.4 Drain) in the last Tribble version to 1499.2 (20.5 Drain) in this one with 95 drain skill.
It would also be nice if target subsystem were to "scale more aggressively" with drain skill, -1.1 power (capping at -11) per hit (minus resists of course) at level one is quite the drop from 38 (minus resists) on holodeck.
Are there any plans to do a balance pass to some of the reputation traits? Some of the older ones like the regeneration traits from the omega rep could use a boost. I was thinking they could give a regeneration boost every 1 second like a lot of more recent regeneration boosts. The T4 Omega ground shield regeneration trait is already like this, and I think it's pretty good. However, the T4 Omega space shield regeneration trait is every 6 seconds and the T2 Omega space and ground hull regeneration traits are every 3 seconds. When you compare that to the new Lukari reputation regeneration trait, it's not even worth slotting the Omega rep traits because the Lukari one does both of their jobs but better.
The change to to the Torpedo buffs that makes the buff only appy to the next 10 seconds is a real problem with ships that use torpedoes with long cooldowns, I think. Coupled with the limited firing arc, you will often end up basically using the buff or the torpedo at suboptimal durations.
I see that there is some concern with double-tapping, but is it really a big issue? Maybe it could be changed in a way that you can not "double-tap" the same ability, but can still double tap by following a HYT with a TS or vice versa. Maybe just extending it to something like 20 seconds would already be sufficient.
Beam Overload Change
The change to Beam Ovrerload has one big drawback, as much as I like the idea: It means that you can't really use Beam overload as well as a spike buff, or at least lose a lot more than you used to when doing so.
I know from my PvP days in the ancient pre-Romulan Expansion times, that a viable spike damage build was combining a Beam Overload on a single DBB with Cannon Rapid Fire on 3 Dual Heavy Cannons. That was already a bit of a compromise, because a precious front weapon slot didn't benefit from the CRF buff, but the BO was worth it. But now, you're basically also losing the Beam Overload buff on 3 precious front weapon slots if you did that. Obviously, you could also do something similar with a torpedo build (back then, that was not really viable, today it's different.)
The change implemented right now will make Beam Overload in a viable multi-beam buff (probably), but it will lose its importance as source of spike damage. It seems it would then also more directly compete with BFAW - likely one of the powers will turn out to be a bit better than the other, and so one will simply fall by the wayside again.
Maybe it would be better if Beam Overload would buff multiple shots of a single beam?
Maybe this could also be a distinguishing mark between CSV and CRF - something to make weapon combinations more viable. (Kinda like how Torpedo buffs only buff one torpedo launch and not all, meaing that a single launcher could be a viable addition to increase your spike damage.)
Common "problem" with Torpedo Buffs and Beam Overload Buffs
It's not possible to tell the buff which of your weapons are too be buffed. You have to basically disable auto-fire and then micro-manage your shots to ensure that the "right" weapon gets buffed, or get your weapons to fire in the right rythm so that the weapon you want to get the buff always fires first once the buff is running.
Obviously, this rewards skill, but does it reward the skill enough compared to other buffs? Comparitively, BFAW is easy to use - the challenge is mostly related to positioning yourself right, but that is a challenge you can have with HYT, TS and BO, too.
I don't know if there is a solution to simplify this in some manner, it would probably require something for the UI and not just a mechanical change. But I thought I should bring it up.
How about an all-Torpedo Buff?
Even though I critisized the Beam Overload change a few paragraphs above, still an aspect to consider: What if one of the torpedo buffs would actually affect all torpedo launchers, like BFAW, Cannon Rapid Fire, Surgical Strikes and now the new Beam Overload affect multiple weapons? This would mean there is actually a buff that benefits a build focused on torpedoes, and maybe it would be a way to make standard torpedoes more relevant compared to all the speciality torpedoes.
Maybe this is something more for a completely different and new skill. It would be a signfiicant change for both skills, and there are lots of interactions with traits and powers to consider. Hmm.
I guess Kemocite is this already to some extent (though it does buff more than just torpedoes.)
B:O was good reason of adding DBB to cannon ship. ST:O lack any variery of builds, we have "beamboats", "cannonboats" or rare "torpedoboats", but mixes are rare because of how weapon bufs work. B:O allowed to add beam to non-beam ship without crippling the build. After these changes, BO cannot be effectively used on non-beamboats, since majority of it's power was moved to 10s buff to beams...
Yes, Beamboats need some skill to "emulate" old BFAW effectiveness against single targets - but it should be NEW skill. BO already have it's niche, it's purpose and is valuable addition to game giving use nice variety of builds based on this skill.
If reason behind this skill revamp is increasing number of available effective build options, keeping old BO and adding new general-buff skill to beams will be step into good direction.
Or, just allow the 10s of it's buff to apply to all energy weapons...seems like that would fix the issue pretty well.
Do You you really want to turn the BO + CRF combo to into a staple for PvP builds? On the other hand, if you make cannon buffs and BO exclusive, then BO will be useless again. It is the wrong direction. BO should stay as it is (always crit, no buff), and a new Beam ability should be added (DPS buff to all beams vs single target for 10s)
We have an ability like that already...2 of them, in fact. Surgical Strikes and Reroute reserves, although they're only available at high rank on specialist ships. If BO's going to remain the weaker sibling in that it only affects beams, then what we have now in the patchnotes is fine, and has a distinct role from FaW/SS/RR. As to making that combo a staple of PvP...I'll take it you weren't around during the period of time when this was exactly what was happening. Escorts Online, anyone?
As you can see, the effects on cannon abilities are far worse than on beams. While it is viable with beams the same cannot be said for cannons. You should do a balance pass to make SS more of a viable choice for cannon builds.
I think ultimately this game is all about dps. If the devs would kindly find the creativity to shift this focus to being able to survive a match, heal somebody, or be scientific in some way other than mindlessly bypassing Shields with abilities with merely fancy words then that would create a more satisfying gameplay for all classes. Like you said devs, our fun is wrong in some cases, especially in the large majority of cases of feeling like our abilities don't actually NEED to be used. Simply buffing and debuffing abilities isn't enough. We need a new style of content that actually focuses on needing these captain abilities!
When it comes to survival, please don't add yet more survivability equipment like piezo electric and lukari anniversary console, it just gives tacs and science the ability to deal their super damage whilst also healing with equipment as strong as an engineers abilities. Tell me where there are consoles and boff abilities that increase dmg in the same power as tac captain abilities, but where those tac captains can't use and abuse these also because this further pigeon holes tactical into the ultimate class.
Comments
Why is Plasmonic Leech an always on passive? Most console abilities are clickies. It seems much easier to balance if it was like a Subsystem Targeting power that buffs your shots for a while with an energy drain that also grants you power levels. It could be more effective then it's now when it's active, but it would not be on all the time. It would still be a potent addition to any drain build.
Mustrum "I should go back to Tribble for more feedback and not more brainstorming" Ridcully
I always wondered that, too. Let it stack with the MACO set passive and scale with drain - just give it a 30s uptime and 2 minute cooldown like almost every other console from that era. @lucho80 thoughts?
I stopped doing PvP regularly a while ago. While most of the changes from Spartan are good in the sense I would try again, making SNB a boff power is a pain. My sci captain drain build now would have to trade a drain ability that I have slotted in order to give up that space for SNB. Note that my drain build only uses one sci boff with 3 deflector doffs. I loose a very good drain ability just so I can try and defeat my opponent because without using SNB first, people go crazy using every debuff clearing known.
I, for one, would love to have Engineering captains have the option to play more of a support role. Making these buffs usable on teammates would give Engineers that option -- and make them much more useful in a team setup.
Agree.
I choose to run cannons in a world where beams rule.
The changes to a cannon's firing cycle hurt like crazy as now we have that handicap in addition to already being handicapped by the firing arc. It's like a double wham and a final nail in the cannon's coffin.
If they want variety, they should leave the firing cycle as it was for cannons and simply work to keep it even with beams in final output and damage.
U.S.S. Maelstrom, NCC-71417 (Constitution III-class/flagship) --- Fleet Admiral Hauk' --|-- Dahar Master Hauk --- I.K.S. qu'In 'an bortaS (D7-class / flagship)
Nah, it's the cumulative effect of finally addressing things that have been let get too far out of whack for years and making apparent how far power creep has gone.
I'd love to play support in such a way...any of those abilities that sit unused for a mission are just being wasted. Engineers should have a way to support other than simply being the most effective sponge...because that doesn't matter if tacs can generate more threat and thus be a better tank.
Or, just allow the 10s of it's buff to apply to all energy weapons...seems like that would fix the issue pretty well.
Do You really want to turn BO + CRF combo to staple PvP build? On the other hand, if you make cannon buffs and BO exclusive, then BO will be useless again. It is wrong direction, BO should stay as it is (always crit, no buff), and new Beam ability should be added (DPS buff to all beams vs single target for 10s)
Admittedly, it's been a long time since I used this ability on Holodeck, but I have a hard time believing this is "much faster", they seem just as slow as I remember them being. In fact, they're having a hard time reaching their target at all!
They're not dying often at all, good work here.
As mentioned, they're having a hard time reaching their targets, so I haven't really been able to evaluate anything here other than their point defense turrets, which I guess are comparable to other pets. I parsed them at 3k in an ISA run, which is about what each ship called by the Delta Alliance Reinforcements Beacon did. I didn't see how many of the shuttles launched were armed, so this number could be an outlier.
On paper, the change to the subsystem disable chance and duration makes that aspect of the ability worse than Holodeck on the character I'm testing with. Due to the Plasmonic Leech and Plasma-Generating console changes, I'm no longer boosting Drain Expertise with my Science slots, putting the recharge increase at 5 seconds and the subsystem disable at 8. According to the wiki, the current values for Rank III is an 83% chance to disable a subsystem for 10 seconds and add 4 seconds to recharge times. But again, this is just speculation, I'd really like to see how it performs when the shuttles are actually sped up to the point they can reach their target.
Also, I'd like to make a request here: If the shuttles' target is destroyed, could they automatically retarget to another one, like destructible torpedoes do? Right now they just sit in place, which is neat for armed shuttles, but useless for unarmed.
Edit: Felt I should mention, I'm testing this in the Tau Dewa patrols on Advanced difficulty. The Romulan NPCs and the shuttles themselves are often killing targets before the shuttles reach them, even with no intervention on my part. I wasn't even sure if the shuttles could land at first.
Well.. its a big mistake and a lot of Pll. wrote this.
Its not to late to fix that.. but Spartan dont want hear that.. really sad.
Btw.
What do you think about a Cap for shield bleedthrough and Hull Pen. I meen.. in PvP shields are most useless these days.. and tba. Hull pen is to strong. A Cap. for both would be nice.
David
*** Aktiv since 03.06.10 ***
Member since December 2009
On Tribble, you can get Retrain Tokens for free at Drozana station from one of the consoles.
My command platforms disappear in about 5 seconds when they're supposed to last 45 seconds. Something really could be done to buff these.
What are we seeing now?
Shields have been garbage for a long time. In PvP I can pretty much kill peoples shields quickly and they still fly around like nothing using other survival means.
Why not chance that now.. i meen its " balanceing time " or not ? Make shields great again. ^^
PS. This SNB should not be a BO skill.. will wrote this over and over again.. because its ridiculous.
David
*** Aktiv since 03.06.10 ***
Regarding the single target damage of HYT - I could see that they don't want to make the burst damage per shot too high, it can be particularly excessive in PvP if it is. (No one cries when NPCs blow up
That reminds me, the Terran Task Force Ammunition Set bonus with the Secondary Torpedo Launcher feature still sucks. The original idea sounded a lot better, even if the implementation was broken.
Destabilizing Resonance Beam as a channeling power requires continuous targeting and can be interrupted by fast moving enemies or, for example, teleporting Undine ships or 180 degree immune Vot. Compare this against Gravity Well and Subspace Vortex. While all 3 powers are big damage dealers on Holodeck (and I understand the balance need to reduce the damage of these science abilities), GW and SSV are essentially "fire and forget" powers while DRB requires some additional skill component (and luck against certain enemies) to use and - especially - maintain to maximize its usefulness.
The current state of DRB on Tribble is that it has lost about half of the damage it was dealing on Holodeck (DRB3: Holodeck: 1908 -> Tribble: 997 @ 383 EPG and 108 Aux).
To account for the additional channeling component, the following are some proposed changes to the power to make it a little easier to use, without completely removing the unique channeling aspect:
Idea #1: Channeling time for DRB is reduced from 10 seconds to 5 seconds with the damage and debuff stats doubled so as to keep the overall performance equal at full stacks.
Idea #2: Channeling time for DRB is reduced as the BOFF power rank increases (so 10 sec for DRB1, 8 sec for DRB2, 5 sec for DRB3) - with corresponding damage and debuff stat adjustments to ensure same overall performance.
In my opinion, either of the above changes would better facilitate the use of DRB as an effective debuff tool (Science!) that also happens to cause moderate damage.
If adjusting the channeling time is either technically not do-able or not desired for other gameplay design reasons, then lastly...
Idea #3: Leave channeling time alone, but slightly buff the damage back up a bit.
Thanks in advance for your consideration of this feedback!
Note: These comments were posted in the first Tribble Maintenance and Release Notes post, but I wanted to make sure they were noted in the Official Feedback Thread:
http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/startrekonline#/discussion/1229463/tribble-maintenance-and-release-notes-march-15-2017/p9
http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/startrekonline#/discussion/1229463/tribble-maintenance-and-release-notes-march-15-2017/p11
David
*** Aktiv since 03.06.10 ***
If we're talking about the correct kind of fun, then tacticals ofcourse should be dealing the big dmg, whilst engineer players should enjoy actually being targeted so their skills don't go to waste.
There's no point in buffing these engineering skills in this rebalance pass if they can't actually use them to their fullest extent!
This might demand a redesign of the threat generating system or just a few modifications:
Increased threat generation is a multiplication of threat% with every point of dmg. The implications of this is that most tacticals with high dmg numbers and low threat% within player groups would generate more total threat than an engineer with low dmg numbers and higher threat%.
To top that off, the 'meta' is changing. Threat reducing embassy consoles may no longer be as popular. And for a tactical captains to no longer use threat reducing consoles makes the above problem a lot more apparent because they'll be generating even more threat over engineers. This devalues engineer player pve gameplay significantly.
I hope the devs read this and take on board this most imminent threat!
As a PvP-Player i would say we need a Cap. for..
Speed
Shield Bleedthrough
Hull. Pen.
.. it would be nice.
btw.
This SNB should be only for SCI Captains and not a BO-Skill.. still dont like that chance. Its not importent in PvE.. but was one of the Reasons to play a Sci in PvP and works for Years really good. No need to chance that.. . Im not the only one to wrote this.. a lot of Guys wrote this.. . Its not to late.. just stop that.
PS. Rock'n Roll didnt work on tribble
David
*** Aktiv since 03.06.10 ***
I don't mind caps on Shield and Hull Pen but a cap on speed is something I take issue with, in fact, if you're using DHCs then a speed upwards of 80 can be a detriment rather than an asset, not to mention the defence stat from speed has a cap although I forget where it is. That said, it would be nice if non-target-able torps got a speed increase like their target-able counterparts and if there was an easier way to target high speed targets as that aspect of speed builds is a serious pain.
On the subject of the current Tribble build, I have this to say (note: also posted in the notes thread):
Shame about the grav well damage hit, although nearly 3k at 436 partgens and 73 aux power is a bit much, I agree, dropping GW3 from 1972.8 (-0.25 Repel) on Holodeck to 1405.5 (-0.25 Repel) in the current Tribble version is also a little harsh especially when Tyken's rift 2 goes from 1475.1 (19.4 Drain) in the last Tribble version to 1499.2 (20.5 Drain) in this one with 95 drain skill.
It would also be nice if target subsystem were to "scale more aggressively" with drain skill, -1.1 power (capping at -11) per hit (minus resists of course) at level one is quite the drop from 38 (minus resists) on holodeck.
@crypticspartan#0627
We have an ability like that already...2 of them, in fact. Surgical Strikes and Reroute reserves, although they're only available at high rank on specialist ships. If BO's going to remain the weaker sibling in that it only affects beams, then what we have now in the patchnotes is fine, and has a distinct role from FaW/SS/RR. As to making that combo a staple of PvP...I'll take it you weren't around during the period of time when this was exactly what was happening. Escorts Online, anyone?
Ruinthefun's did a test on Surgical Strikes when compared with CRF and BFAW/O.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/i4gzvc1ymx0g4ww/Ruinthefuns Spike Test.xlsx?dl=0
As you can see, the effects on cannon abilities are far worse than on beams. While it is viable with beams the same cannot be said for cannons. You should do a balance pass to make SS more of a viable choice for cannon builds.
When it comes to survival, please don't add yet more survivability equipment like piezo electric and lukari anniversary console, it just gives tacs and science the ability to deal their super damage whilst also healing with equipment as strong as an engineers abilities. Tell me where there are consoles and boff abilities that increase dmg in the same power as tac captain abilities, but where those tac captains can't use and abuse these also because this further pigeon holes tactical into the ultimate class.