Yes i do find those queues fun. Sorry if my type of fun is not the right type of fun. I know theres a current trend at present where my fun is not the right fun with the space nerfs that are going on Tribble to reduce high dps builds.
Not everyone enjoys a Grethor timegated type of match, i like missions where my ships build and the builds and skill of the team i play with determines the speed of the map, not artificial timers that prolong the mission.
So yes to Elite versions of ISA/CCA. A big warp factor 10 NO to changing ISA/CCA normal and advanced.
I think there is a level of room between Grethor and ISA that would be more reasonable.
Grethor is relatively harmless in terms of cooldowns, but the gateway closing part is mostly a time filler, with no real challenge.
But look at the Tzenkethi Queues - They take long, but you don't sit around doing nothing. Particularly the Tzenkethi Fronts seems to have no timegates at all, and you're always kept busy. There is some interesting stuff in how to avoid suffering aggro when you deploy the protomatter bomb, benefitting from good teamwork (or smart crowd control use). There is of course a concealed time gate in the travel time between the spawn place for the protomatter carrying battleships and the bases, but it's not like in Mirror Invasion where you really just stand around for a while.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Would you also find them fun if they offered only 1/15th of the present rewards?
You didn't ask me... but I would. Of course, making rewards 1/15 of current values seems a bit extreme, but I can totally get behind the idea of reducing ISA and CCA rewards to being something like 1/4 of what they are currently.
Yes i do find those queues fun. Sorry if my type of fun is not the right type of fun. I know theres a current trend at present where my fun is not the right fun with the space nerfs that are going on Tribble to reduce high dps builds.
Not everyone enjoys a Grethor timegated type of match, i like missions where my ships build and the builds and skill of the team i play with determines the speed of the map, not artificial timers that prolong the mission.
So yes to Elite versions of ISA/CCA. A big warp factor 10 NO to changing ISA/CCA normal and advanced.
Please just tell me, what is fun about an instance that only lasts 30-60 seconds?
You must be the person who is watching Olympic games and yelling at your TV screen: "Dammit! Why must they sprint so fast! Couldn't Usain Bolt take his time and run his 100m in 2 minutes?"
Actually, I don't watch the Olympics. Other than watching figure skaters fall I find most of it rather dull. But on something similar to your example, I find NASCAR incredibly boring because if how long and drawn out it is. To me, there's a difference between quick with effort, and instant with no effort.
It all boils down to different preferences. Some people like to take their time, enjoy the ship weapons shooting etc. Others want to do their best and try how fast they can go and/or how efficiently can they grind their marks/dil/whatever.
So what you really want is free, instant rewards then?
ISA= Everything that is supposed to be immune to damage has constant feedback pulse effect for 100% of the damage dealt to it.
CCA= Massive HP increase, make it heal for 100% of the damage you deal to it with energy weapons if you fire on it while it's charging its aoe of doom.
It all boils down to different preferences. Some people like to take their time, enjoy the ship weapons shooting etc. Others want to do their best and try how fast they can go and/or how efficiently can they grind their marks/dil/whatever.
So what you really want is free, instant rewards then?
Twisting the words of others must be fun, right? Well, congrats, as that form of fun will be hard to nerf.
Would you also find them fun if they offered only 1/15th of the present rewards?
You didn't ask me... but I would. Of course, making rewards 1/15 of current values seems a bit extreme, but I can totally get behind the idea of reducing ISA and CCA rewards to being something like 1/4 of what they are currently.
So what you are really saying is that if it was 1/15th of the reward, you wouldn't find it fun. Why is that?
You misunderstood me. I would find CCA/ISA fun even giving 1/15 of their current reward as I currently couldn't care less about omega and nukara marks. However, they give like, what, 80 marks? Without the daily. Making them give only 5-6 marks would be really punitive towards players who actually need to farm marks and the only result would be empty queues. Hence I thought 20 marks (1/4 of current reward) would be reasonable payout, as yes, I totally agree the queues can take very little amount of time.
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
Would you also find them fun if they offered only 1/15th of the present rewards?
You didn't ask me... but I would. Of course, making rewards 1/15 of current values seems a bit extreme, but I can totally get behind the idea of reducing ISA and CCA rewards to being something like 1/4 of what they are currently.
So what you are really saying is that if it was 1/15th of the reward, you wouldn't find it fun. Why is that?
You misunderstood me. I would find CCA/ISA fun even giving 1/15 of their current reward as I currently couldn't care less about omega and nukara marks.
So in order to make them no longer a joke, you'd be fine with that. Excellent.
However, they give like, what, 80 marks? Without the daily. Making them give only 5-6 marks would be really punitive towards players who actually need to farm marks and the only result would be empty queues. [...]
So you are saying that most people play them not for the fun, but for the extremely good reward-to-effort ratio?
There are plenty of people playing ISA and CCA just to get their DPS numbers, but couldn't care at all about rewards (to put it in perspective, I have 37k Omega marks). And there are also large number of people who play those queues because the rewards are very good and the effort required is minimal, compared to other content in game. I honestly can't tell which group is largest, but I tend to believe it's the second one.
I would add an elite queue for both and leave the others as is. the reason the other queues are dead is because the other reps have battle zones that provide an abundance of dil/marks and are fun except for the busted tzenkethi Bz. Defera and Nukara bzs you can't even use boffs to help.
Would you also find them fun if they offered only 1/15th of the present rewards?
You didn't ask me... but I would. Of course, making rewards 1/15 of current values seems a bit extreme, but I can totally get behind the idea of reducing ISA and CCA rewards to being something like 1/4 of what they are currently.
So what you are really saying is that if it was 1/15th of the reward, you wouldn't find it fun. Why is that?
You misunderstood me. I would find CCA/ISA fun even giving 1/15 of their current reward as I currently couldn't care less about omega and nukara marks.
So in order to make them no longer a joke, you'd be fine with that. Excellent.
However, they give like, what, 80 marks? Without the daily. Making them give only 5-6 marks would be really punitive towards players who actually need to farm marks and the only result would be empty queues. [...]
So you are saying that most people play them not for the fun, but for the extremely good reward-to-effort ratio?
There are plenty of people playing ISA and CCA just to get their DPS numbers, but couldn't care at all about rewards (to put it in perspective, I have 37k Omega marks).
So the prognosis of the queues going dead because people would not play them if there were only 15th of the rewards being payed out is wrong?
And there are also large number of people who play those queues because the rewards are very good and the effort required is minimal, compared to other content in game. I honestly can't tell which group is largest, but I tend to believe it's the second one.
Would you entertain the possibility that all the other queues are dead because ISA and CCA suck up most of the for-reward players?
I'm really the wrong person to give you any speculations, honestly.
How would you make ISA and CCA last long enough to be worth the rewards they currently offer?
I'd leave them alone and move the entire playerbase on to other newer content by changing the rewards for the other content to be far more enticing.
You see, to put this in Everquest terms, there's just simply no reason to make Nagafen and Vox encounters important in this day and age. Move. On.
What's a joke is that people cling to two of the oldest, simplest, non-strategic encounters in all of STO as some benchmark of achievement. This content is old, and should be put out to pasture. Both of them can make great "parsing" or "testing" maps, and that's about it.
Yes i do find those queues fun. Sorry if my type of fun is not the right type of fun. I know theres a current trend at present where my fun is not the right fun with the space nerfs that are going on Tribble to reduce high dps builds.
Not everyone enjoys a Grethor timegated type of match, i like missions where my ships build and the builds and skill of the team i play with determines the speed of the map, not artificial timers that prolong the mission.
So yes to Elite versions of ISA/CCA. A big warp factor 10 NO to changing ISA/CCA normal and advanced.
Please just tell me, what is fun about an instance that only lasts 30-60 seconds?
That would be CCA right? Because ISA takes a bit longer usually, just in time it takes to fly from spot to spot to spot.
So what makes CCA fun?
1- It's relaxing.
2- It pops fast.
3- You get satisfaction out of shooting at a big old crystal monster.
4- You get more satisfaction out of seeing it blow up.
5- For a nice, relaxing, low pressure 30 seconds of you life, you get to choose some decent mark rewards, t hat will pay off with decent gear.
That's pretty much it. It's all very obvious. So I ask you this ... why do you have a problem with people in a video game who want to take the easy route to a reward?
How would you make ISA and CCA last long enough to be worth the rewards they currently offer?
I'd leave them alone and move the entire playerbase on to other newer content by changing the rewards for the other content to be far more enticing.
You see, to put this in Everquest terms, there's just simply no reason to make Nagafen and Vox encounters important in this day and age. Move. On.
What's a joke is that people cling to two of the oldest, simplest, non-strategic encounters in all of STO as some benchmark of achievement. This content is old, and should be put out to pasture. Both of them can make great "parsing" or "testing" maps, and that's about it.
You've been around longer than me and, like me, can remember a time when they were "challenging and strategic". Heck, the original CCA was famous for being notoriously difficult to complete.
And THAT is possibly the main thing that I, personally, dislike; the fact that (referring to CCA) it was hit with the largest, most solid, nerf bat imaginable. It went from being one of the most challenging queues in the game to a laughably easy ten-second joke.
it wasn't when it was revamped; it was still plenty challenging without being impossible to pug like the old version was
it didn't start becoming a joke until AFTER power-creep rising, which was the best expansion ever and the players loved it!
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
Would you also find them fun if they offered only 1/15th of the present rewards?
You didn't ask me... but I would. Of course, making rewards 1/15 of current values seems a bit extreme, but I can totally get behind the idea of reducing ISA and CCA rewards to being something like 1/4 of what they are currently.
So what you are really saying is that if it was 1/15th of the reward, you wouldn't find it fun. Why is that?
You misunderstood me. I would find CCA/ISA fun even giving 1/15 of their current reward as I currently couldn't care less about omega and nukara marks.
So in order to make them no longer a joke, you'd be fine with that. Excellent.
However, they give like, what, 80 marks? Without the daily. Making them give only 5-6 marks would be really punitive towards players who actually need to farm marks and the only result would be empty queues. [...]
So you are saying that most people play them not for the fun, but for the extremely good reward-to-effort ratio?
There are plenty of people playing ISA and CCA just to get their DPS numbers, but couldn't care at all about rewards (to put it in perspective, I have 37k Omega marks).
So the prognosis of the queues going dead because people would not play them if there were only 15th of the rewards being payed out is wrong?
And there are also large number of people who play those queues because the rewards are very good and the effort required is minimal, compared to other content in game. I honestly can't tell which group is largest, but I tend to believe it's the second one.
Would you entertain the possibility that all the other queues are dead because ISA and CCA suck up most of the for-reward players?
I'm really the wrong person to give you any speculations, honestly.
Then why did you speculate earlier?
Before, I was giving you deductions from what I've seen or heard. Flat out guessing is different, nor would it accomplish much, imo. (Also, we are kinda going off-topic atm)
By scaling queue rewards to average completion time, so that a 1 minute mission no longer gives the same reward as a 20 minute one.
There's nothing fundamentally wrong with easy or short missions existing. The problem is the disproportionately high rewards that draw most of the playerbase to spam them instead of content more appropriate for their capabilities.
I like this: it's also a solution or partial solution to the empty queues problem (maybe if ISA & CCA had a low reward to timeout ratio, people would go back to playing some of the other missions nobody seems to line up for anymore).
Would you also find them fun if they offered only 1/15th of the present rewards?
You didn't ask me... but I would. Of course, making rewards 1/15 of current values seems a bit extreme, but I can totally get behind the idea of reducing ISA and CCA rewards to being something like 1/4 of what they are currently.
So what you are really saying is that if it was 1/15th of the reward, you wouldn't find it fun. Why is that?
You misunderstood me. I would find CCA/ISA fun even giving 1/15 of their current reward as I currently couldn't care less about omega and nukara marks. However, they give like, what, 80 marks? Without the daily. Making them give only 5-6 marks would be really punitive towards players who actually need to farm marks and the only result would be empty queues. Hence I thought 20 marks (1/4 of current reward) would be reasonable payout, as yes, I totally agree the queues can take very little amount of time.
It isn't a matter of what is a reasonable payout. That's for Cryptic to decide.
The question is the reward/time ratio relative to other content. That's where it all goes wrong because all the queues have the same total reward no matter how long they take. It's not proportional.
A 15 minute mission should logically give 15x the reward of a 1 minute mission. But it doesn't. They both give the same reward. The 1 minute mission gives the same reward for 1/15th the time, so of course everyone plays the 1 minute mission.
If you are finding a lack of teamplay or a DPS monster 1 shotting everything in the public queues, take the time to make friends and run private matches. You'll never experience those issues again. Zero Dev time required.
Well, I have seen some posters suggest that there is some kind of rotating "que of the day/week" system where a handful of ques get higher rewards and choice of marks boxes. That seems kinda nice. Get people playing some of the other content on a regular basis might start a routine where a larger variety of ques are played.
There's nothing inherently fun about CCA, it's all about efficiency and the fact that human beings typically chose the path of least resistance...
For players motivated to level their fleet, requiring large amount of marks, dil etc, those players will go to where their time is best spent and running advanced ques that can get 3-4 total on a 30 minute (give or take) rotation will be the ones they run, not because of fun persay but because it makes the most sense.
Now if most fleets are following the same logic, it will translate heavily over to que health as most will be in those specific ques, popping them infinitely faster then the "fun" long ques.
This has been touched on throughout the thread but unless you do the hard part of breaking the cycle, it doesn't matter what new content you add they will be dead ques relatively speaking.
Main way I'd change CCA to brin this more in line with the thread, give it more dmg and add an optional objective to kill the tholians (all) before entity dies/can be killed. Pure dps wouldn't work (likely) anymore and some teamwork would be needed and an increase of more then 1-2 mins to complete
How would you make ISA and CCA last long enough to be worth the rewards they currently offer?
My approach for ISA would be:
to increase the number of picket ships at the start to one tac cube, two reglar cubes, four spheres and eight probes. This is supposed to be an attempt to take over not only a starbase, but to establish a staging area for a large-scale invasion into Alliance space, and given the size of the Collective, a few more ships are hardly too much for such an attempt.
Next, I would have the nanite spheres for both sides show up about 30 seconds after the fighting starts - obviously the Borg would call for reinforcements as soon as it becomes obvious that those five ships aren't ordinary Alliance vessels, but have special captains. The Borg will then continue to send in nanite spheres (plus escorts) to keep the gate alive until the gate is destroyed.
In additon, the Nanite Transformers should be armed with plasma torpedos (into all arcs) and Torpedo Spread 3 and able to use a few active abilities like Feedback Pulse, Tractor Beam Repulsors, Brace For Impact, Hazard Emitters and Polarize Hull.
After a set time period of 10 minutes (if the gate still lives by then), I'd let the end boss enter the system through the transwarp gate - but not a tactical cube, but an Unimatrix ship with two tac cubes, four regular cubes, eight spheres and sixteen probes as escort fleet.
The optionals would have to be changed, of course: The first optional would be to destroy at least one nanite transformer before the main Borg force (the Unimatrix ship) arrives. The second optional would be to destroy the gate within five minutes after the Unimatrix ship arrives. Mission success would be to wipe the system of any Borg craft.
For CCA, my approach would be:
The Tholians are obviously herding Crystalline entities into Alliance space. Wouldn't it make sense, then, that they heal and buff their beast? I'd give their ships healing and buffing to such an extent that they can, if not stopped, negate about 150 thousand points of damage per second. That way, destroying a significant part of the Tholian task force would be required. In addition, a second, larger Tholian task force would arrive 10 minutes after the mission begins.
The Crystalline Entity would no longer go into absorption mode when it reaches 66 and 33 percent of its hull, but after a set amount of time of 60 seconds. The radiation blast would be changed: It would be one blast of 200,000 points of damage, followed by a subnucleonic carrier wave, followed by second blast of 200,000 points of damage per target. Tholians would, of course, be immune to it. Also, its hull resistances and hitpoints would have to be adjusted upwards, to make sure the entity survives at least long enough to spit out three blasts.
The optional would be to defeat the entity before Tholian reinforcements arrive (ending the mission).
How would you make these queues interesting again? Or would you object to any changes? If so, why?
Op the 60 second countdown to absorption and blast is to long most CCAs are over in less then 20 seconds ive been on one lasted 15 seconds , and had players comlaining about some not having enough dps to end it faster
Would you also find them fun if they offered only 1/15th of the present rewards?
I'll be honest, I do not play these maps for the rewards. They can have 0 rewards and I'd still play them. For me, the fun in them is trying to find ways to complete them faster. They are nothing more than testing grounds for me, just two of several maps I use to test my builds.
So what you really want is free, instant rewards then?
It's funny you say that. But for the people that are actually the ones speeding up the runs to that level, it actually takes a lot of effort and precision to get it down to that level. For me, it is so much easier to run a 20 minute long ISA than it is to push it down to 2 minutes. It's easier to run a 5 minute CCA, than it is to push it down to 30 seconds.
Fast really doesn't equate to being easy nor effortless.
I would go as far as saying everything in this game is easy if you take your time and don't push the boundaries of piloting and ship performance. Even what the OP is suggesting is easy. It'll only make the game run longer. It would still be easy if players don't attempt to rush headlong and try to push for high scores.
Would you entertain the possibility that all the other queues are dead because ISA and CCA suck up most of the for-reward players?
I do not think the state of the other queues have anything to do with ISA and CCA. There is simply so much more sources of easy rewards outside of the queues. You've got the various BZs, the Admiralty system as well as single player missions. Heck, if I want Dil (which to me is the only reward that counts at end game), the STFs are a very inefficient means to get that.
The game is easy because no matter how you make NPCs tougher to kill, it doesn't require you to actually push your performance and there are no real stakes. You can die multiple times and that's ok. In the end, you'll still get your rewards. You can even fail a mission entirely and it won't affect anything in the game. There are no consequences for failure.
Want to make them difficult? Buff the NPCs then put a short time limit to complete everything, or else you get 0 reward. That way, dying creates a problem for the team trying to make the timer and everyone is forced to fly at the edge of their performance envelopes while dealing with harder-hitting, tough-hulled NPCs.
For example, buff ISE so the Borg have FBP, use TacTeam and even make them adapt, then slap a 5-minute timer to complete the map before they destroy the Starbase. In CCE, buff the Tholians, give the CE it's healing back then slap a 5-minute timer before it eats the planet. That should make it tougher since you'll have to have good gear, use everything in your arsenal to get around their buffs, survive their harder firepower and fly with precision and speed to deal the damage to make the timers.
However, while I do know I'd personally enjoy a more challenging game, I do think making the queues tougher would be a bad idea. People will simply shift to easier, more casual ways to play the game because like it or not, STO is pretty much a casual game with mostly casual players who just want to relax and pew-pew their way around a Star Trek theme park.
Want to make them difficult? Buff the NPCs then put a short time limit to complete everything, or else you get 0 reward. That way, dying creates a problem for the team trying to make the timer and everyone is forced to fly at the edge of their performance envelopes while dealing with harder-hitting, tough-hulled NPCs.
methinks you are asking WAY too much of people who are star trek fans first and gamers second, and i'd be willing to wager that's pretty much the majority of people playing STO
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
Want to make them difficult? Buff the NPCs then put a short time limit to complete everything, or else you get 0 reward. That way, dying creates a problem for the team trying to make the timer and everyone is forced to fly at the edge of their performance envelopes while dealing with harder-hitting, tough-hulled NPCs.
methinks you are asking WAY too much of people who are star trek fans first and gamers second, and i'd be willing to wager that's pretty much the majority of people playing STO
Hence why I said I believe that making the game more difficult would probably be a bad idea.
How would you make ISA and CCA last long enough to be worth the rewards they currently offer?
I'd leave them alone and move the entire playerbase on to other newer content by changing the rewards for the other content to be far more enticing.
You see, to put this in Everquest terms, there's just simply no reason to make Nagafen and Vox encounters important in this day and age. Move. On.
What's a joke is that people cling to two of the oldest, simplest, non-strategic encounters in all of STO as some benchmark of achievement. This content is old, and should be put out to pasture. Both of them can make great "parsing" or "testing" maps, and that's about it.
You've been around longer than me and, like me, can remember a time when they were "challenging and strategic". Heck, the original CCA was famous for being notoriously difficult to complete.
And THAT is possibly the main thing that I, personally, dislike; the fact that (referring to CCA) it was hit with the largest, most solid, nerf bat imaginable. It was one of the most challenging queues in the game but has gradually become the laughably easy ten-second joke that it is today.
That's why I used Nagafen as my Everquest example.
It debuted as end-game dragon raid, complete with lair, mini bosses, and all of the trappings of what you'd except from "slaying a dragon" ... along with some of the best treasure/magic items in the game.
Level cap at the time was level 50.
Current level cap is 105.
As time wore on and levels increased and old content became completely marginalized, The Nagafen encounter was set that if you were above level 53 you were instantly teleported to zone entrance.
So here we have CCA. When it debuted, level cap in STO was 45. I once spent an entire weekend doing the encounter, and failing, back during the game's first month of being live. The closest I came was 23%, after 6 hours of consecutive play. Challenging? Sure. But not something I'd ever want to return to.
To continue to make my Everquest comparison, a couple years ago my friend returned to the game during some special even they were doing. And he went and solo'd a bunch of bosses for fun and nostalgia. Those same bosses were raid encounters that used to take more than 50 people for us to clear when they were level appropriate.
So yeah, I have zero problem with CCA, a monster that the first time I fought it, I couldn't defeat after 6 straight hours, taking less than a minute to complete 6 years later. Because I have zero problem with my friend soloing an entire zone by himself in Everquest when the first time we both fought that zone, it took 48 more of our guildmates over 6 hours to clear.
It's old content. It's not cutting edge. It's not the current endgame. Developers moved on, but players haven't. Because it's super easy.
I think it'd be awesome if they "removed" the encounter from the game and set it up as a TRAINING encounter. Where you can just go in with whoever and TEST your ship on it. Ala the training rooms in Champions Online or the holodecks on Bajor.
It serves a great utility as a training/testing scenario. But as endgame content? It warps players' perceptions of the game's lifecycle/history/evolution to keep treating it like it's supposed to be some big challenge this many years later.
Good Ole Nagafen still drops that cloak of flames though!
Comments
Grethor is relatively harmless in terms of cooldowns, but the gateway closing part is mostly a time filler, with no real challenge.
But look at the Tzenkethi Queues - They take long, but you don't sit around doing nothing. Particularly the Tzenkethi Fronts seems to have no timegates at all, and you're always kept busy. There is some interesting stuff in how to avoid suffering aggro when you deploy the protomatter bomb, benefitting from good teamwork (or smart crowd control use). There is of course a concealed time gate in the travel time between the spawn place for the protomatter carrying battleships and the bases, but it's not like in Mirror Invasion where you really just stand around for a while.
You didn't ask me... but I would. Of course, making rewards 1/15 of current values seems a bit extreme, but I can totally get behind the idea of reducing ISA and CCA rewards to being something like 1/4 of what they are currently.
U.S.S. Buteo Regalis - Brigid Multi-Mission Surveillance Explorer build
R.R.W. Ri Maajon - Khopesh Tactical Dreadnought Warbird build
My Youtube channel containing STO videos.
Actually, I don't watch the Olympics. Other than watching figure skaters fall I find most of it rather dull. But on something similar to your example, I find NASCAR incredibly boring because if how long and drawn out it is. To me, there's a difference between quick with effort, and instant with no effort.
So what you really want is free, instant rewards then?
CCA= Massive HP increase, make it heal for 100% of the damage you deal to it with energy weapons if you fire on it while it's charging its aoe of doom.
Twisting the words of others must be fun, right? Well, congrats, as that form of fun will be hard to nerf.
U.S.S. Buteo Regalis - Brigid Multi-Mission Surveillance Explorer build
R.R.W. Ri Maajon - Khopesh Tactical Dreadnought Warbird build
My Youtube channel containing STO videos.
You misunderstood me. I would find CCA/ISA fun even giving 1/15 of their current reward as I currently couldn't care less about omega and nukara marks. However, they give like, what, 80 marks? Without the daily. Making them give only 5-6 marks would be really punitive towards players who actually need to farm marks and the only result would be empty queues. Hence I thought 20 marks (1/4 of current reward) would be reasonable payout, as yes, I totally agree the queues can take very little amount of time.
U.S.S. Buteo Regalis - Brigid Multi-Mission Surveillance Explorer build
R.R.W. Ri Maajon - Khopesh Tactical Dreadnought Warbird build
My Youtube channel containing STO videos.
everything else gives just TWO marks...not even worth the time once you've gotten the daily bonus
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
There are plenty of people playing ISA and CCA just to get their DPS numbers, but couldn't care at all about rewards (to put it in perspective, I have 37k Omega marks). And there are also large number of people who play those queues because the rewards are very good and the effort required is minimal, compared to other content in game. I honestly can't tell which group is largest, but I tend to believe it's the second one.
U.S.S. Buteo Regalis - Brigid Multi-Mission Surveillance Explorer build
R.R.W. Ri Maajon - Khopesh Tactical Dreadnought Warbird build
My Youtube channel containing STO videos.
I'm really the wrong person to give you any speculations, honestly.
U.S.S. Buteo Regalis - Brigid Multi-Mission Surveillance Explorer build
R.R.W. Ri Maajon - Khopesh Tactical Dreadnought Warbird build
My Youtube channel containing STO videos.
I'd leave them alone and move the entire playerbase on to other newer content by changing the rewards for the other content to be far more enticing.
You see, to put this in Everquest terms, there's just simply no reason to make Nagafen and Vox encounters important in this day and age. Move. On.
What's a joke is that people cling to two of the oldest, simplest, non-strategic encounters in all of STO as some benchmark of achievement. This content is old, and should be put out to pasture. Both of them can make great "parsing" or "testing" maps, and that's about it.
That would be CCA right? Because ISA takes a bit longer usually, just in time it takes to fly from spot to spot to spot.
So what makes CCA fun?
1- It's relaxing.
2- It pops fast.
3- You get satisfaction out of shooting at a big old crystal monster.
4- You get more satisfaction out of seeing it blow up.
5- For a nice, relaxing, low pressure 30 seconds of you life, you get to choose some decent mark rewards, t hat will pay off with decent gear.
That's pretty much it. It's all very obvious. So I ask you this ... why do you have a problem with people in a video game who want to take the easy route to a reward?
it wasn't when it was revamped; it was still plenty challenging without being impossible to pug like the old version was
it didn't start becoming a joke until AFTER power-creep rising, which was the best expansion ever and the players loved it!
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A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Before, I was giving you deductions from what I've seen or heard. Flat out guessing is different, nor would it accomplish much, imo. (Also, we are kinda going off-topic atm)
U.S.S. Buteo Regalis - Brigid Multi-Mission Surveillance Explorer build
R.R.W. Ri Maajon - Khopesh Tactical Dreadnought Warbird build
My Youtube channel containing STO videos.
I like this: it's also a solution or partial solution to the empty queues problem (maybe if ISA & CCA had a low reward to timeout ratio, people would go back to playing some of the other missions nobody seems to line up for anymore).
The question is the reward/time ratio relative to other content. That's where it all goes wrong because all the queues have the same total reward no matter how long they take. It's not proportional.
A 15 minute mission should logically give 15x the reward of a 1 minute mission. But it doesn't. They both give the same reward. The 1 minute mission gives the same reward for 1/15th the time, so of course everyone plays the 1 minute mission.
For players motivated to level their fleet, requiring large amount of marks, dil etc, those players will go to where their time is best spent and running advanced ques that can get 3-4 total on a 30 minute (give or take) rotation will be the ones they run, not because of fun persay but because it makes the most sense.
Now if most fleets are following the same logic, it will translate heavily over to que health as most will be in those specific ques, popping them infinitely faster then the "fun" long ques.
This has been touched on throughout the thread but unless you do the hard part of breaking the cycle, it doesn't matter what new content you add they will be dead ques relatively speaking.
Main way I'd change CCA to brin this more in line with the thread, give it more dmg and add an optional objective to kill the tholians (all) before entity dies/can be killed. Pure dps wouldn't work (likely) anymore and some teamwork would be needed and an increase of more then 1-2 mins to complete
Op the 60 second countdown to absorption and blast is to long most CCAs are over in less then 20 seconds ive been on one lasted 15 seconds , and had players comlaining about some not having enough dps to end it faster
I'll be honest, I do not play these maps for the rewards. They can have 0 rewards and I'd still play them. For me, the fun in them is trying to find ways to complete them faster. They are nothing more than testing grounds for me, just two of several maps I use to test my builds.
It's funny you say that. But for the people that are actually the ones speeding up the runs to that level, it actually takes a lot of effort and precision to get it down to that level. For me, it is so much easier to run a 20 minute long ISA than it is to push it down to 2 minutes. It's easier to run a 5 minute CCA, than it is to push it down to 30 seconds.
Fast really doesn't equate to being easy nor effortless.
I would go as far as saying everything in this game is easy if you take your time and don't push the boundaries of piloting and ship performance. Even what the OP is suggesting is easy. It'll only make the game run longer. It would still be easy if players don't attempt to rush headlong and try to push for high scores.
I do not think the state of the other queues have anything to do with ISA and CCA. There is simply so much more sources of easy rewards outside of the queues. You've got the various BZs, the Admiralty system as well as single player missions. Heck, if I want Dil (which to me is the only reward that counts at end game), the STFs are a very inefficient means to get that.
The game is easy because no matter how you make NPCs tougher to kill, it doesn't require you to actually push your performance and there are no real stakes. You can die multiple times and that's ok. In the end, you'll still get your rewards. You can even fail a mission entirely and it won't affect anything in the game. There are no consequences for failure.
Want to make them difficult? Buff the NPCs then put a short time limit to complete everything, or else you get 0 reward. That way, dying creates a problem for the team trying to make the timer and everyone is forced to fly at the edge of their performance envelopes while dealing with harder-hitting, tough-hulled NPCs.
For example, buff ISE so the Borg have FBP, use TacTeam and even make them adapt, then slap a 5-minute timer to complete the map before they destroy the Starbase. In CCE, buff the Tholians, give the CE it's healing back then slap a 5-minute timer before it eats the planet. That should make it tougher since you'll have to have good gear, use everything in your arsenal to get around their buffs, survive their harder firepower and fly with precision and speed to deal the damage to make the timers.
However, while I do know I'd personally enjoy a more challenging game, I do think making the queues tougher would be a bad idea. People will simply shift to easier, more casual ways to play the game because like it or not, STO is pretty much a casual game with mostly casual players who just want to relax and pew-pew their way around a Star Trek theme park.
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methinks you are asking WAY too much of people who are star trek fans first and gamers second, and i'd be willing to wager that's pretty much the majority of people playing STO
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Hence why I said I believe that making the game more difficult would probably be a bad idea.
| USS Curiosity - Pathfinder | USS Rift - Eternal |
The Science Ship Build Thread - Share your Sci Ship builds here!
That's why I used Nagafen as my Everquest example.
It debuted as end-game dragon raid, complete with lair, mini bosses, and all of the trappings of what you'd except from "slaying a dragon" ... along with some of the best treasure/magic items in the game.
Level cap at the time was level 50.
Current level cap is 105.
As time wore on and levels increased and old content became completely marginalized, The Nagafen encounter was set that if you were above level 53 you were instantly teleported to zone entrance.
So here we have CCA. When it debuted, level cap in STO was 45. I once spent an entire weekend doing the encounter, and failing, back during the game's first month of being live. The closest I came was 23%, after 6 hours of consecutive play. Challenging? Sure. But not something I'd ever want to return to.
To continue to make my Everquest comparison, a couple years ago my friend returned to the game during some special even they were doing. And he went and solo'd a bunch of bosses for fun and nostalgia. Those same bosses were raid encounters that used to take more than 50 people for us to clear when they were level appropriate.
So yeah, I have zero problem with CCA, a monster that the first time I fought it, I couldn't defeat after 6 straight hours, taking less than a minute to complete 6 years later. Because I have zero problem with my friend soloing an entire zone by himself in Everquest when the first time we both fought that zone, it took 48 more of our guildmates over 6 hours to clear.
It's old content. It's not cutting edge. It's not the current endgame. Developers moved on, but players haven't. Because it's super easy.
I think it'd be awesome if they "removed" the encounter from the game and set it up as a TRAINING encounter. Where you can just go in with whoever and TEST your ship on it. Ala the training rooms in Champions Online or the holodecks on Bajor.
It serves a great utility as a training/testing scenario. But as endgame content? It warps players' perceptions of the game's lifecycle/history/evolution to keep treating it like it's supposed to be some big challenge this many years later.
Good Ole Nagafen still drops that cloak of flames though!