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[PC] The Tzenkethi Are Coming

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  • ssbn655ssbn655 Member Posts: 1,894 Arc User
    lighte007 wrote: »
    I guess the other biggest hurdle for this race is they were never shown on screen but only were mentioned in the tv shows. But that is a very nice news article of the Tzenkethi.

    If I recall they were in the animated series one episode "The Soft weapon" which was based on one of Larry Niven's stories "The Slaver weapon". However they looked nothing like this.
  • ssbn655ssbn655 Member Posts: 1,894 Arc User
    lordsteve1 wrote: »
    Drool.......

    I want that power armour suit/costume/outfit/thingy.

    I hope that it doesn't become player usable. Seeing a human in Voth gear is bad enough.
  • ssbn655ssbn655 Member Posts: 1,894 Arc User
    daddel4sto wrote: »
    Hi there,

    ..snip..

    Sorry, but I really don't understand this. Granted, they were NEVER shown on screen so this IS a challenge, but there is a ton of references in the Novelverse -- FFS there is at least one novel essentially about them (I think it was one of the Typhoon Pact novels), and I'm pretty sure there was no mention of reptilian-ish appearances. Quite the opposite: From what I read it's common sense that
    (a) most humanoid species do find them to be quite attractive (in an rather odd way), so I guess the femme-fatale approach wasn't entirely wrong ...
    (b) they don't seem to have any kind of bones in their (tall) bodies so they can bend around in a near impossible fashion and
    (c) they use every surface in a house ... meaning floor, ceiling, walls - this should pose a real challenge ;o) (!)

    ..snip..


    Greetings, Daddel!

    Welcome to licensing issues. STO doesn't necessarily have the rights to everything Star Trek. While we'd like to believe they do - and recently the first two reboots were made available to STO - the simple truth is Star Trek licensing is more complicated than that.

    First off the novels have never been accepted by the licensees or CBS as canon. Sometime we shout a lot and they get an item here or there like the Vesta. From their developers comments over the years the process to get the Vesta was problematic. Whether its the length of the licensing process, perhaps the cost, or maybe the story elements just don't fit, it's not really that easy to take the novels at face value.

    Most notably absent: stasis boxes, Kzinti - both elements that are owned by Larry Niven's estate and cannot be used in Star Trek even though they are onscreen. Note: I'm not gonna argue if the animated stuff is cannon. But we do have lockboxes and Caitians.

    By creating their own materials, even if it's based on the conversations about the Tzenkethi, STO has it's hands free to develop for the games needs. The did a great job on other well known episodic aliens. I think by the looks of the artwork, they will give us an alien race we can have fun with.

    My Two Bits

    Lootcritter
    Excuse me YOU ARE WRONG ABOUT LARRY NIVEN! He is alive and well.
  • ash352ash352 Member Posts: 233 Arc User
    edited January 2017
    ssbn655 wrote: »
    lighte007 wrote: »
    I guess the other biggest hurdle for this race is they were never shown on screen but only were mentioned in the tv shows. But that is a very nice news article of the Tzenkethi.

    If I recall they were in the animated series one episode "The Soft weapon" which was based on one of Larry Niven's stories "The Slaver weapon". However they looked nothing like this.

    As you would say, "YOU ARE WRONG."

    The species in question were the Kzinti and you got the names backwards in terms of Episode titles. It took me all of 10 seconds to google it.
  • avoozuulavoozuul Member Posts: 2,970 Arc User
    edited January 2017
    When I first saw the pic in the launcher I thought it was some sort of cyborg monstrosity before I opened the link.

    It kind of looks a lot like something from Halo, like an Elite mixed with a Brute.

    Post edited by avoozuul on
  • sunseahlsunseahl Member Posts: 827 Arc User
    sunseahl wrote: »
    Honestly... How in the hell did no one go... "You know what would be badass? Plants with protomatter weapons!"
    Maybe because, as has been mentioned before in this thread, a writer from Deep Space 9 had described them years ago, and said they were "heavily armed lizard things".

    Them being reptilian really wasn't up to Cryptic or not, all that was up to them was to make them not look like the other reptilian species in the game.

    the Blog betrays ALL of your argument even the comment below mine.... The blog specifically state they tossed back and forth between a femme-fatale and lizard people... 2, 4, 6 arms and even.... TENTACLES.... Means they HAVE the tech to do tentacle monsters(Just look at the founders liquid-form)

    and aside from what you may subscribe to as canon... what a writer says of a species doesn't make it canon(just look at all the books/comics that have vastly different universes in them)

    Cryptic wholeheartedly had his chance to create not just a civilization(like they did for the Kobali) but to go so far as finally putting a face onto an entire race! And we get ANOTHER lizard people? Of ALL life that exists in the universe EVERY sentient race has one thing in common... PLANT life.... There should, statistically speaking, be way more sentient plant life in the universe than exists in Trek... Especially Humanoid Plant life. Plant Life is a universal truth to the survival, evolution, and thriving nature of ANY sentient species, even carnivores. Hell, even the Klingons have plants they eat and drink! Unless you plan to tell me Raktajino is fermented meat-coffee....​​
    Member of the "Disenchanted"
    We don't want what the Feds have. We want the equivalent. We want fairer treatment. Concern, desire, greed to some extent, and passionate belief that the enough people would buy KDF items to make it worth Cryptic's while.
  • avoozuulavoozuul Member Posts: 2,970 Arc User
    edited January 2017
    Edit: Accidental second reply, sorry about that.
    Post edited by avoozuul on
  • highlandrisehighlandrise Member Posts: 336 Arc User
    edited January 2017
    *Facepalm* still people ranting why they look the way, the CREATOR behind them described them......

    *Irony ON* I AM Robert Hewitt Wolfe, and i came up with the idea of the TZENKETHI, and since its MY Creation, i think i will describe their looks as "heavily-armored lizard things"

    Cryptic introduces the TZENKETHI, and gives them the look of "heavily-armored lizard things" since the CREATOR, the guy BEHIND the idea of the TZENKETHI described them as such, so lets respect that and make it so.

    Some People, cry because the TZENKETHI look the way they should look, instead of the way, some writers in some novels re-invented them - completly ignoring what the guy behind the idea of the TZENKETHI described them as - *Irony OFF*...........

    Best thing Cryptic can do here is to Divert FULL POWER to IGNORE and do their stuff in this matter.

    Also, Star Trek is all about 99% of species in the galaxy being humanoid derivative of some kind, they even had an episode of TNG to explain, and verify in lore, why this is.

    And all the Aliens they met, from the Klingons, to the Romulans, to the Cardassians, to even to more "out there" aliens like the Q, are all based on some aspect of human personality taken to some extreme.

    What I meant to say was Star Trek at its best, because the show was at its best when It got more speculative and creative. Yes I enjoyed that political intrigue and social interaction that came with basically having different kinds of humans interacting, but we already have that in the game in spades! We get only glimpses into the side of Trek that was more exploratory and diverse, and they could have done that here (The creator's description of them was in an interview/offhand comment, which is about as cannon as the novels, so yeah they had plenty of choice in the matter). They had an opportunity to try for a little of that and they didn't take it. As to you assertion that "None of those would be feasible in a game setting due to the lack of a rigid form" that is just a lack of imagination. There is plenty of totally normal ways that something without bones can be rigid (talk to your **** for further evidence) which doesn't even go into the more out there speculative out-there treknobabble excuses they could use (like tk as I mentioned)

    Its is absolutely irrelevant when, where or in what form the Creator Described HIS Creation, only thing that matters is its HIS Creation HIS Idea, so what HE says about them IS Canon, everything else is not, so no they dont had plenty of choices, they did the right thing and used the "most canon" source for this Species, and worked that out, instead of using some non canon stuff, just because some people demand it. Sure the look could have been slightly different here and there but at the core its the right design choice a ""heavily-armored lizard thing" true to the descibtion of this species, and they also tried to make them look different from the allready existing other lizard Species in the Game and that is also good, so they are unique enough.

    So could you guys please just stop that bashing and:

    gNa6J_f-maxage-0.gif?c=popkey-web&p=popkey&i=deal-with-it-reactions&l=direct&f=.gif


  • wimpomanwimpoman Member Posts: 42 Arc User
    You mean the show that spent most of TNG and DS9 interacting with previously established races?
    Irrelevant. Exploration was always the staple of the show. We are told over and over and over again how important exploration is to both Humans and Starfleet.
    The fact that this game that takes place within that exploration-heavy universe and yet features none has always bothered me.
    On top of that, it seems to me that every new enemy is always more powerful, more of a threat to the Federation, than the last one that was added (although I actually have no proof that the Tzenkethi will follow that trend - for all I know they'll be armed with lasers XD).

  • gazurtoidgazurtoid Member Posts: 423 Arc User
    edited January 2017
    Yeah, when you consider how much work and effort the Cryptic artists put into making this cool looking new race, its a bit disheartening (and frankly rude) that so many people's first instinct is not to appreciate it for what it is (which looks to be one of the most original approaches to ground npcs since the Voth), but to try to find flaws and complain it doesn't fit their personal vision of how the race should look.

    The Novel's interpretation of the Tzenkethi is irrelevant. Its non-canon and someone else owns the IP for it (Cryptic would have to get agreement from them and probably pay them). To say nothing of the fact that many of the descriptions of the race in the books is frankly bizarre and would not translate well into a video game. Glowing, fluid-sac humanoids might sound interesting in the books - but it would likely look awkward and unconvincing ingame.
    yjkZSeM.gif
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    thay8472 wrote: »
    Sweet. Another race for me to commit genocide on XD
    I like the cut of your evil. - Catbert
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • hawku001xhawku001x Member Posts: 10,642 Arc User
    I'd eat one! I mean, shoot. I'd shoot one.
  • eugenesyseugenesys Member Posts: 108 Arc User
    Looks inspired by the Invids...
  • sophia#6343 sophia Member Posts: 63 Arc User
    risian4 wrote: »
    As for the books: they're not canon. Hate to say it, but you'll have to get over it.

    STO has diverged from the books in many cases, for all different kinds of reasons (because we want the Borg in the game, to name just one).

    Hello, Risian4 is correct. The books are not canon. I for one am delighted to see the Tzenkethi in the game and think they look fantastic.
    Please keep up the wonderful work! <3
    “The louder he talked of his honor, the faster we counted our spoons.” ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson ~
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 54,852 Community Moderator
    calexisrex wrote: »
    Wow! I'm guessing the artists have NEVER READ ANY of the descriptions of the Tzenkethi in the books! They are NOT reptillian, NOT six-limbed, and look NOTHING LIKE what is shown here!

    Big fail!!!!!

    Uh...
    Robert Hewitt Wolfe said, in December 2006, that he thought he had named the Tzenkethi by combining the name Kzinti (from Larry Niven's race of aliens that appeared in the Star Trek: The Animated Series episode "The Slaver Weapon") with Tsankth, after a race from the RuneQuest and HeroQuest RPGs. Wolfe also said he did not picture them as cats like the Kzinti, but as being like the Hakazit from Jack L. Chalker's Well of Souls novels. He saw the Tzenkethi as being "heavily-armored lizard things."

    If the guy who NAMED them saw them as lizard things...
    66998372863950ee98cf7da9786e2ea9-db80k0m.png
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
    The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • psycoticvulcanpsycoticvulcan Member Posts: 4,160 Arc User
    gazurtoid wrote: »
    To say nothing of the fact that many of the descriptions of the race in the books is frankly bizarre and would not translate well into a video game. Glowing, fluid-sac humanoids might sound interesting in the books - but it would likely look awkward and unconvincing ingame.

    lNUh0uV.gif

    That said, I do hope these Tzenkethi have a proper culture beyond the usual imperialistic bad guys we're used to from the Cardassians and the Tal Shiar. Hopefully it won't just be another straight war.
    NJ9oXSO.png
    "Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them."
    -Thomas Marrone
  • lighte007lighte007 Member Posts: 390 Arc User
    At least they aren't Dinosaurs but they are DRAGONS! Dragons > Dinosaurs
    The Rising of the Delta is the best expansion ever, and people love it to death because it is a good day to die in the endless struggle for supremacy of your own conviction. (A spin off of the Delta Rising is the best expansion ever and all the players love it.)
  • spacehermitspacehermit Member Posts: 303 Arc User
    While I am grateful for new content, it's a pity it has to be a race that looks like something out of a kids' cartoon.
  • rimmarierimmarie Member Posts: 414 Arc User
    I wont pass judgement until I see them in-game.
    But I would have gone with the 'Jellifish' idea though. I like the idea of them crawling across the walls and ceiling.
    thats not to say they wont use some of their behavior with the Reptile-ish guys
    They could prefer enclosed spaces and defy gravity too (assuming the game engine will allow such things)

    It would be nice if it WASN'T all-out war with these guys. System disputes and major encounters would suffice.
    Overall, I'm excited and I'm looking forward to new story content.
  • keletteskelettes Member Posts: 488 Arc User
    Not exactly how I imagined them, but I'm looking forward to give them an olive branch :smile: Or knock their ships around a bit if they decide to try the ankle-bite :smiley:
    "Ad astra audacter eamus in alis fidelium."
    -
    "To boldly go to the stars on the wings of the faithful."
  • shadowfirefly00shadowfirefly00 Member Posts: 1,013 Arc User
    ssbn655 wrote: »
    I hope that it doesn't become player usable. Seeing a human in Voth gear is bad enough.
    I've seen that; the big problem with the Dyson armor visuals...

    8518524e9fb0887e7839ff17ef3cdd261382986212.jpg

    ...is how the legs (and especially the boots) are molded - they look closer to what you might expect on Sangheili (concept art) than the humanoid races seen to date in STO. Come to think of it, perhaps I should point this out in one of the costume-related threads...
  • captaind3captaind3 Member Posts: 2,442 Arc User
    edited January 2017
    I like 'em they look cool. Even if they basically look like sci-fi Shokan. They're even half dragon like Goro was described.

    I can't wait to see them in motion. The little arms working controls while the big ones are shooting at me will either look awesome or hilarious....actually I'll go with both.

    Frankly I'm glad they're not humanoid. I love humanoid shapes, but there's more to that than the basic planform in Star Trek. I'm curious about their sexual dimorphism. What do the females look like?


    *Facepalm* still people ranting why they look the way, the CREATOR behind them described them......

    *Irony ON* I AM Robert Hewitt Wolfe, and i came up with the idea of the TZENKETHI, and since its MY Creation, i think i will describe their looks as "heavily-armored lizard things"

    Cryptic introduces the TZENKETHI, and gives them the look of "heavily-armored lizard things" since the CREATOR, the guy BEHIND the idea of the TZENKETHI described them as such, so lets respect that and make it so.

    Some People, cry because the TZENKETHI look the way they should look, instead of the way, some writers in some novels re-invented them - completly ignoring what the guy behind the idea of the TZENKETHI described them as - *Irony OFF*...........

    Best thing Cryptic can do here is to Divert FULL POWER to IGNORE and do their stuff in this matter.

    -snip-

    Its is absolutely irrelevant when, where or in what form the Creator Described HIS Creation, only thing that matters is its HIS Creation HIS Idea, so what HE says about them IS Canon, everything else is not, so no they dont had plenty of choices, they did the right thing and used the "most canon" source for this Species, and worked that out, instead of using some non canon stuff, just because some people demand it. Sure the look could have been slightly different here and there but at the core its the right design choice a ""heavily-armored lizard thing" true to the descibtion of this species, and they also tried to make them look different from the allready existing other lizard Species in the Game and that is also good, so they are unique enough.

    So could you guys please just stop that bashing and:

    gNa6J_f-maxage-0.gif?c=popkey-web&p=popkey&i=deal-with-it-reactions&l=direct&f=.gif

    Thanks. I had read that but forgotten about it. That basically settles it for me though my jimmies weren't particularly rustled since they still look cool.
    tumblr_mr1jc2hq2T1rzu2xzo9_r1_400.gif
    "Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many — they are few"
  • shadowfirefly00shadowfirefly00 Member Posts: 1,013 Arc User
    captaind3 wrote: »
    I like 'em they look cool. Even if they basically look like sci-fi Shokan. They're even half dragon like Goro was described.
    Now there's a species I hadn't heard mentioned in a while; thank you for the flashback... and ensuing mental imagery of how the kit we've seen so far might be adapted to actual Shokan.
  • lessley00lessley00 Member Posts: 1,200 Arc User
    Hurrah the Elites are back! Bigger and Badder than before! Wait... dammit I thought this was for Halo 6...

    On another note the Tzenkethi look interesting though they just look like another big bad alien race that rah rah... is a threat to the federation... rah rah has help from the future rah rah... with a couple more graphically overdone and laggy pve queues and a rep system that we have to grind out. Gosh cryptic slow down I havent even finished the terran rep. *sigh*
    Captain Joseph Riker, U.S.S. Odyssey==General V'Mar, U.S.S. Blackwater-A==Admiral Laura Holmes, U.S.S. Forward Unto Dawn
    Grand Master Thotok, son of Koloth, I.K.S. Sompek==Dahar Master Shanara, I.K.S. Balth'Quv

    Admiral R'Tath V'Tirex, R.R.W. Dhael Glohha'enh==Commander Ta'eth Korval, R.R.W Hachae ch'Rhian==Admiral Vranuk, R.R.W Delevhas
  • midniteshadow7midniteshadow7 Member Posts: 782 Arc User
    I think the Tzenkethi look great and I am looking forward to seeing them in action.
  • tobiashirttobiashirt Member Posts: 630 Arc User
    gazurtoid wrote: »
    To say nothing of the fact that many of the descriptions of the race in the books is frankly bizarre and would not translate well into a video game. Glowing, fluid-sac humanoids might sound interesting in the books - but it would likely look awkward and unconvincing ingame.

    lNUh0uV.gif

    That said, I do hope these Tzenkethi have a proper culture beyond the usual imperialistic bad guys we're used to from the Cardassians and the Tal Shiar. Hopefully it won't just be another straight war.

    The culture was the most interesting thing to me in the books anyway, it being the main reason they butted heads with the federation. Eugenics, espionage, rigid caste system, etc.
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