Uhh no. Video games can expand on the existing lore, and show us new sides of it, like STO does. THAT adds depth to the series, adding tons of new 100% made up aliens that end up doing nothing does not.
STO just added a new 100% made up alien race that is currently factoring into the storyline rather heavily. If they can find a reason to add the Lukari, then nothing is truly off the table. I'd also point out that the Deferi also factor heavily into parts of the storyline and they are also 100% made up.
There is no reason whatsoever that STO can't add new stuff, so long as they find a way to do it that doesn't directly contradict commonly understood facts about the Star Trek prime universe.
No, it's not. You're making 2 rather baseless assumptions, first that they are not willing to make another galaxy map section, second that they're ONLY using that chart.
Yes it is
1. There is no other chart to use besides the Stellar Cartography map, which is the same map with a few more places added in from the last season of ENT.
2. They aren't going to add another galaxy map section given that there is basically nothing out there at this point except the scant few places like Cait and Gornar, which are so far away, and in the middle of nowhere, that adding them would mean adding like 4-5 sectors of nothing just for one planet.
Are you just habitually prone to trying to pick fights over simple stuff?
The chart you are referencing does not include either the Gamma Quadrant, nor the Delta Quadrant.
So clearly, there are more in-canon locations that have and can be revisited. Just not on one sector block map. I won't argue the technical limitations on that score because Tacofangs was pretty clear on that. But there is absolutely nothing stopping them from adding an infinite number of star maps and new locations accessible via transwarp/wormhole/gateway/handwavium.
Well, I guess it was time for one of our semi-annual 'how many angels can stand on the head of a pin' Threads. Canonheads and anti-canonheads rejoice, you can tear each other apart to your hearts content.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
No, it's not. You're making 2 rather baseless assumptions, first that they are not willing to make another galaxy map section, second that they're ONLY using that chart.
Yes it is
1. There is no other chart to use besides the Stellar Cartography map, which is the same map with a few more places added in from the last season of ENT.
2. They aren't going to add another galaxy map section given that there is basically nothing out there at this point except the scant few places like Cait and Gornar, which are so far away, and in the middle of nowhere, that adding them would mean adding like 4-5 sectors of nothing just for one planet.
Are you just habitually prone to trying to pick fights over simple stuff?
The chart you are referencing does not include either the Gamma Quadrant, nor the Delta Quadrant.
So clearly, there are more in-canon locations that have and can be revisited. Just not on one sector block map. I won't argue the technical limitations on that score because Tacofangs was pretty clear on that. But there is absolutely nothing stopping them from adding an infinite number of star maps and new locations accessible via transwarp/wormhole/gateway/handwavium.
Also, while there are currently 3 sheets for the galaxy map, there's nothing preventing the devs from increasing that number.
I'm just wondering how much room they have to make anything like a new galaxy or a new sector of space for us. Aren't they bursting at the seams as it is with all the stuff they have in the game now or is there an unlimited amount of space for creating content?
Technically, the space for new content is unlimited as is the use of new material. It's how it's added and incorporated into the game that's the real problem as far as licensing is concerned. It's not even a question of 'What's canon and what isn't', as that is really not relevant to anything dealing with either CBS or STO as far as game design is concerned. If you were around in the early years, you'll recall the exploration missions and random events they used to have in both the exploration clusters and else where. They were built around this premise. All that is left now (and functional) that still allows for this is the Foundry.
And if Cryptic was as tied by canon as some would think, then the first thing they'd have to do is remove everything related to the Foundry from the game, because Canon would dictate that nothing created by a fan is canon, so can't be used by STO (isn't that what we keep hearing?). This concept is definitely in error.
When is comes to new content, for the most part, the team has free artistic license. It might get shot down when it's waved by CBS, but there is no rule written or unwritten that says that Cryptic isn't allowed to do a thing, only that CBS must approve it before publicly releasing it.
Think that sums it up in a nutshell. So the argument above, although interesting, has no bearing on anything in the game itself, whether or not Star Trek fans feel like it should. It is essentially a pointless argument.
1: who cares? If you're making new stuff then you're making new stuff.
2: They'll add anything to the galaxy map that they plan to use as part of the game.
1. They care, which is why they spent so much time trying to make their in-game map match the Star Charts, since it's the closest thing to a map they have. And why they have frequently talked about not just adding places like Cait, the cat people home world, just for the sake of having it in the game, when doing so would mean its way off from where it should be.
2. Which would require there be something of note in that area of space for them to base a story on. Name one thing that qualifies.
1 only applies when they're NOT making new stuff
2 could be new stuff if they chose for it to be so.
STO just added a new 100% made up alien race that is currently factoring into the storyline rather heavily. If they can find a reason to add the Lukari, then nothing is truly off the table. I'd also point out that the Deferi also factor heavily into parts of the storyline and they are also 100% made up.
There is no reason whatsoever that STO can't add new stuff, so long as they find a way to do it that doesn't directly contradict commonly understood facts about the Star Trek prime universe.
I'll chalk these up on the big board of bold faced lies told on the STO forums.
1. The Lukari are based on an unnamed alien seen in an episode of ENT, just like the Elachi, Solonae, and Bluegill were from episodes of ENT/TNG. They are not 100% made up.
oh? you mean the one who's totally unrecognizable? So the Lukari were never seen or mentioned in the TV show ever.
Doesn't look much like a Lukari...... Also, even in STO he's said to be more human than Lukari.
oh? you mean the one who's totally unrecognizable? So the Lukari were never seen or mentioned in the TV show ever.
Right.... and we never saw the Iconians either, doesn't mean they aren't based off of an alien from the TV show.
What is you freaking deal man? Why are you so belligerently hostile to anything that goes against your fan fiction?
Because internet trolls have nothing better to do with their time when they live in their parents basements.....c'mon 27k + posts in less than 3 years? That's 27+ posts PER DAY..........this person is simply out there to argue.
You guys are so wrong. He is not and never has been what you accuse him of.
Though it was stated that 8x8 was the limit, that was pushing it. 7x7 was probably the best target.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
oh? you mean the one who's totally unrecognizable? So the Lukari were never seen or mentioned in the TV show ever.
Right.... and we never saw the Iconians either, doesn't mean they aren't based off of an alien from the TV show.
YOU made the claim that the Lukari were "based on" canon, well.... Let's examine that. The Iconians were mentioned by name in several episodes, and we saw functional examples of their technology as well as examples of their architecture.
In contrast, The Lukari..... were retconned to be the source of the unidentified DNA in charred humanoid's genetic structure. He was mostly Human but also said to have Vulcan, and a little Rigelian and Terellian.... or was it Tarelian? It's so hard to keep those straight.
The current direction of this 'altercation' reminded me of this line from TOS 'Dagger of the Mind':
ADAMS: I think I'll have to award that round to the Captain, Helen. You're fighting over your weight.
I'll let you figure out who to substitute for the Captain, and who for Helen.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
YOU made the claim that the Lukari were "based on" canon
And they are. They are based on the charred humanoid remains of a guy they found in ENT.
In what way? As you can see from the pic I posted, the charred corpse had no features that made it easily distinguishable as non-Human. The NX crew didn't realize it wasn't entirely Human until Phlox started analyzing his DNA.
2. I never said STO was hard canon, and, in fact, have said several times it is not canon, like the novels. Thus making your entire second paragraph pointless.
3. Soft canon, by its definition, does not add to the lore. Which is exactly why it's not hard canon. All soft canon can do is add fanfiction. Lore can only be defined by what is hard canon from the TV shows/movies/word of god comments by the series owner CBS.
You're confused on something here. You like tossing around terms like Hard Canon and Soft Canon, but then you confuse fan fiction with those. Fan fiction is outside of all of that and isn't considered part of anything to do with a franchise. Canon always has to do with Licensed or recognized works, whether or not is it something that gets used again the same way in other aspect of that 'Franchise' (which is a type of business, where as fanfiction is strictly for fun).
Also you're lumping novels and games, both of which produce a greater income for the parent company in the long run, in with fanfiction as if they are junk. It is your 'Soft Canon' (as you termed it) that produces much of what the parent company can make from the franchise.
this actually goes in descending order of priority, with the bottom often producing greater returns on investment than the top: Movies/shows; games/books/related publications; merchandise/ services/ etc.
fanfiction isn't even on that list, since it isn't part of the business
But just to be sure, lets look up someone else's definitions of these three terms:
1. Soft Canon: "Soft canon is licensed material contributed by guest authors and artists that is not considered part of the official canon, but fills a niche that is sufficiently vague, and does not contradict official canon, that it can be considered to be canon."
And if Cryptic was as tied by canon as some would think, then the first thing they'd have to do is remove everything related to the Foundry from the game, because Canon would dictate that nothing created by a fan is canon, so can't be used by STO (isn't that what we keep hearing?). This concept is definitely in error.
Fan created content is not, nor would it be, held under the same rules as Cryptic themselves are.
That doesn't even make sense.
Incorrect. As FanFiction is in no way, shape, or form a part of any business model, and since ANYTHING created by fans is fanfiction, then yes! If something that is not canon can not be used (as you have implied), then the Foundry - which is ALL FAN FICTION - would have to be removed from the game. The Foundry, itself is merely a tool, but what is created with it is not - it's fan fiction, plain and simple.
But this is all an aside to what I said before. You can ignore it if you like. You have already.
Fanfiction is a work by fans - not licensed part of the franchise.
STO is a licensed part of the franchise.
Do I have to repeat this every time? This is our old argument all over again.
It's the difference between being part of a company or not.
If FanFiction is 'gathered and published' by a company - it is NO LONGER FANFICTION! It is now a published and licensed work and part of the franchise.
Cryptic: Fans of Star Trek
STO: A creation of Cryptic using Star Trek unvierse elements to tell a story of Cryptic(fan) make, using original characters, that is not canon
STO, by all definitions, qualifies under Fan Fiction.
I just went through my sources, which I provided. I didn't see this line in it. I may have missed it. But the issue here is that a Fan work (Fanfiction) is an unlicensed, unpaid-for, non-profit product. (Don't even point at Axanar, since they just plain broke the licensing laws.)
(There are exceptions, such as the Japanese stuff, which is allowed as a way for fans to make money and considered a form of honoring the original works.)
Comments
STO just added a new 100% made up alien race that is currently factoring into the storyline rather heavily. If they can find a reason to add the Lukari, then nothing is truly off the table. I'd also point out that the Deferi also factor heavily into parts of the storyline and they are also 100% made up.
There is no reason whatsoever that STO can't add new stuff, so long as they find a way to do it that doesn't directly contradict commonly understood facts about the Star Trek prime universe.
The chart you are referencing does not include either the Gamma Quadrant, nor the Delta Quadrant.
So clearly, there are more in-canon locations that have and can be revisited. Just not on one sector block map. I won't argue the technical limitations on that score because Tacofangs was pretty clear on that. But there is absolutely nothing stopping them from adding an infinite number of star maps and new locations accessible via transwarp/wormhole/gateway/handwavium.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
My character Tsin'xing
Technically, the space for new content is unlimited as is the use of new material. It's how it's added and incorporated into the game that's the real problem as far as licensing is concerned. It's not even a question of 'What's canon and what isn't', as that is really not relevant to anything dealing with either CBS or STO as far as game design is concerned. If you were around in the early years, you'll recall the exploration missions and random events they used to have in both the exploration clusters and else where. They were built around this premise. All that is left now (and functional) that still allows for this is the Foundry.
And if Cryptic was as tied by canon as some would think, then the first thing they'd have to do is remove everything related to the Foundry from the game, because Canon would dictate that nothing created by a fan is canon, so can't be used by STO (isn't that what we keep hearing?). This concept is definitely in error.
When is comes to new content, for the most part, the team has free artistic license. It might get shot down when it's waved by CBS, but there is no rule written or unwritten that says that Cryptic isn't allowed to do a thing, only that CBS must approve it before publicly releasing it.
Think that sums it up in a nutshell. So the argument above, although interesting, has no bearing on anything in the game itself, whether or not Star Trek fans feel like it should. It is essentially a pointless argument.
2 could be new stuff if they chose for it to be so. Pics or it didn't happen....
My character Tsin'xing
Doesn't look much like a Lukari...... Also, even in STO he's said to be more human than Lukari.
My character Tsin'xing
Because internet trolls have nothing better to do with their time when they live in their parents basements.....c'mon 27k + posts in less than 3 years? That's 27+ posts PER DAY..........this person is simply out there to argue.
Though it was stated that 8x8 was the limit, that was pushing it. 7x7 was probably the best target.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
In contrast, The Lukari..... were retconned to be the source of the unidentified DNA in charred humanoid's genetic structure. He was mostly Human but also said to have Vulcan, and a little Rigelian and Terellian.... or was it Tarelian? It's so hard to keep those straight.
My character Tsin'xing
ADAMS: I think I'll have to award that round to the Captain, Helen. You're fighting over your weight.
I'll let you figure out who to substitute for the Captain, and who for Helen.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
My character Tsin'xing
You're confused on something here. You like tossing around terms like Hard Canon and Soft Canon, but then you confuse fan fiction with those. Fan fiction is outside of all of that and isn't considered part of anything to do with a franchise. Canon always has to do with Licensed or recognized works, whether or not is it something that gets used again the same way in other aspect of that 'Franchise' (which is a type of business, where as fanfiction is strictly for fun).
Also you're lumping novels and games, both of which produce a greater income for the parent company in the long run, in with fanfiction as if they are junk. It is your 'Soft Canon' (as you termed it) that produces much of what the parent company can make from the franchise.
this actually goes in descending order of priority, with the bottom often producing greater returns on investment than the top: Movies/shows; games/books/related publications; merchandise/ services/ etc.
fanfiction isn't even on that list, since it isn't part of the business
But just to be sure, lets look up someone else's definitions of these three terms:
1. Soft Canon: "Soft canon is licensed material contributed by guest authors and artists that is not considered part of the official canon, but fills a niche that is sufficiently vague, and does not contradict official canon, that it can be considered to be canon."
2. Canon: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_(fiction)
3. Fan Fiction: (the actual term) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fan_fiction
The below two quotes tie into my next statement:
Incorrect. As FanFiction is in no way, shape, or form a part of any business model, and since ANYTHING created by fans is fanfiction, then yes! If something that is not canon can not be used (as you have implied), then the Foundry - which is ALL FAN FICTION - would have to be removed from the game. The Foundry, itself is merely a tool, but what is created with it is not - it's fan fiction, plain and simple.
But this is all an aside to what I said before. You can ignore it if you like. You have already.
Fanfiction is a work by fans - not licensed part of the franchise.
STO is a licensed part of the franchise.
Do I have to repeat this every time? This is our old argument all over again.
It's the difference between being part of a company or not.
If FanFiction is 'gathered and published' by a company - it is NO LONGER FANFICTION! It is now a published and licensed work and part of the franchise.
I have a feeling you wouldn't see it if it wasn't.
I just went through my sources, which I provided. I didn't see this line in it. I may have missed it. But the issue here is that a Fan work (Fanfiction) is an unlicensed, unpaid-for, non-profit product. (Don't even point at Axanar, since they just plain broke the licensing laws.)
(There are exceptions, such as the Japanese stuff, which is allowed as a way for fans to make money and considered a form of honoring the original works.)
STO is a Licensed and For-Profit product.
can anyone tell us more about the possible new area?
Please?