There you go with more blatant factual inaccuracies. The SWEU in fact WAS canon,
No it wasn't.
Lucas himself said the only things he considered canon were the movies, and even once said he considered all the books to be in their own separate unvierse.
SWEU was canon. It was dismissed and relabeled SWEU after Disney bought up the rights. They did this to give themselves complete control of the product and remove possible competition and conflicts. and it is STILL canon, just not the one listed by Disney. If the issue comes up in court dealing with the licensing of said products and whether or not they are part of SW, then Disney would loose the case. Once part of a licensed franchise, it stays. It can only be moved around, such as SWEU was when Disney called it a separate universe.
non-canon = fanfiction.
I repeat: no licensed product can be fan-fiction.
this is a legal issue and not open for debate. Ignore it if you want, but please stop mangling it.
"Berengaria: Strategically important Federation colony world, home to 200 meter long fire breathing dragon creatures(ENT: "Bound")(TOS: "This Side of Paradise")(DS9: "In the Cards")"
Gigantic 200 meter long fire-breathing space combat pet plz Cryptic. Put some shield generator and exoskeleton with impulse engine on it.
Yeah, we saw something kinda similar in TAS.
Oh wait that one wasn't real.
while less imposing that one was a living thing.
All of us know the game is not perfect none r but taco and his group do pretty good job. considering the parameters that they have to work with. And the time constraints and dead lines that they have to try to meet for release dates. Ive always found it a nice bonus that some systems out of blue will ask if u want to patrol this system. and until they get an entire new set of servers at once or if they have a system that can b revamped in phases r bye my estimation pushing the limit prob of some of there current servers. Althought i do like going onto red shirt and having entire game to myself im only one on it most time does presents challenges for completing rep and no zen store just more of challenge for my one toon left on it how i dont know but i enjoy all 3 servers darkblades aka leader 4 armadas and 3beta flts.Which players of mutiple flts are streched to find dill resources for all of them think the days of toons with mutiple flts is numberd. But i do anticipate in influx of players if and when new series is released.My thanks to forums for once again keeping us up to date.
Actually it has been stated many times that CBS has to approve every piece of content added to STO so clearly they do in fact pay attention to more than just a few small details.
Actually, its been stated several times that Cryptic does basically whatever they want, passing it by CBS, who hand waves most everything as OK.
Its exactly like any novel. They ask if they can make a novel, CBS says yes, they make the novel, CBS skims through it, and 99% of the time goes "print it", and prints it.
CBS doesn't have the desire, let alone time, to sit through every piece of licensed material and directly approve every little thing(outside of what happens in the canon TV shows/movies).
That isn't how ANY series works, especially any large series like Star Trek, Star Wars, Lord of the Rings.
this is dead wrong ( especially the last bit ) .It's a known fact the Tolkien estate has - on numerous occasions - blocked stuff from appearing b/c it wasn't in line with the lore . SWTOR can't do s**t without the licensors ok-ing it ( this has been stated numerous times by the devs at SWTOR ..they have contact with the IP-owners on a regular basis ) and I'm pretty sure the same will apply to Star Trek ( not b/c they like to spend time on it but because of the value of the license ) . You can be pretty sure that Cryptic has to confer with owners of the IP whenever they plan an expansion . If they don't then they'd lose the license ,it's a simple as that .The mere fact the ST license is so valuable made PWE buy Cryptic in the first place ( not to mention the D&D license ...)
Please forgive the show's writers for they know not what they do.
Lithium Cracking Station Vulcanians 450 Photon Torpedoes to take down a Constitution's Shields. UESPA Vulcan has no Moons ... etc.
Just because it was on-screen doesn't mean it is correct 'canon'. Writers made this up as they went along. There were inconsistencies that can't be explained away. And yes, this being a fully licensed product, it is NOT fan-fiction. PERIOD.
Now to the matter at hand. For the love of God, please stop!!! Isn't this Thread about the new Map on Tribble? Can we get this back on topic? The Map.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
I'd love to see more unprompted exploration in the new area.
Fly up to a system and get the prompt to enter.
Explore the systems..
1) Find patrols to fight off for survival.
2) Find ancient wreckage to explore. (recover R&D recipes, items). Clues to possible quest locations.
3) Find explorable planets.
Explore Planets
1) Find peaceful inhabitants, local quest/rep hubs.
2) Find ancient ruins. Puzzles. Automated defenses. (recover R&D recipes, items). Clues to possible quest locations.
3) Enemy inhabitants. Ground battles, recover tech
Something non-scripted where you would need to actually explore without being spoon fed where to go and what to do.
"Berengaria: Strategically important Federation colony world, home to 200 meter long fire breathing dragon creatures(ENT: "Bound")(TOS: "This Side of Paradise")(DS9: "In the Cards")"
Gigantic 200 meter long fire-breathing space combat pet plz Cryptic. Put some shield generator and exoskeleton with impulse engine on it.
I'd be happy with them just flying around off in the background.
I'm not sure I'd want to ride on a dragon two football fields long. It would be like the intro of DragonBall Z with Gohan running on Shenron's back.
It just dawned on me it's a dragon the size of a small starship. Actually it's longer than the Defiant. As long as a Constitution without the nacelles.
I'd love to see more unprompted exploration in the new area.
Fly up to a system and get the prompt to enter.
Explore the systems..
1) Find patrols to fight off for survival.
2) Find ancient wreckage to explore. (recover R&D recipes, items). Clues to possible quest locations.
3) Find explorable planets.
Explore Planets
1) Find peaceful inhabitants, local quest/rep hubs.
2) Find ancient ruins. Puzzles. Automated defenses. (recover R&D recipes, items). Clues to possible quest locations.
3) Enemy inhabitants. Ground battles, recover tech
Something non-scripted where you would need to actually explore without being spoon fed where to go and what to do.
Yes. If exploration is to be actual exploration then it would require something that may require multiple worlds or multiple visits to piece together events, artifacts, maybe even evidence of unusual spatial phenomena that would then lead to a significant discovery or even a mission and after completion a nice reward for your time.
Post edited by captaind3 on
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
I suggest you actually go back and read the links you provided.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fan_fiction
"Fan fiction or fanfiction (also abbreviated to fan fic, fanfic, or fic) is fiction about characters or settings from an original work of fiction, created by fans of that work rather than by its creator. It is a popular form of fan labor, particularly since the advent of the Internet."
Original work: Star Trek
Original creator: Gene Roddenberry
Series owner: CBS
Cryptic: Fans of Star Trek
STO: A creation of Cryptic using Star Trek unvierse elements to tell a story of Cryptic(fan) make, using original characters, that is not canon
STO, by all definitions, qualifies under Fan Fiction.
By this definition, Star Trek: Deep Space Nine, Star Trek: Voyager, Star Trek: Enterprise, and all Star Trek films after Star Trek VI (and apparently 15 minutes of that since Gene wanted them removed) are ALL fan fiction.
That is clearly not the case, so the definition of canon cannot be restricted to only the things that Gene Roddenberry produced, knew of, or approved of personally.
The series owner Paramount and CBS would thus be the default authority on what is highest hard canon and what is not. As CBS has licensed and authorized Cryptic to release this work for a profit and also duly restricted what Cryptic can and cannot do within the rules of the franchise, and when, then Star Trek Online is NOT a fan fiction but an authorized work by the current holder of those creator's rights. A licensed work worked on by professionals with authorization and support from the copyright holder for profit is not a fanfiction.
The fan fiction article on wikipedia states "The term "fan fiction" has been attested in print as early as 1939; in this earliest known citation, it is used in a disparaging way to refer to amateurish science fiction (as opposed to "pro fiction")". While not a canon work, it is professional fiction.
This is why the term soft canon exists for licensed but not official works.
The Hard Canon definition is simply a work that all works that come after it in the continuity must acknowledge and accept as part of its timeline and history, ironically meaning that some of the more outlandish aspects of the original series and movies such as the Enterprise regularly traveling to edge and then out of the Galaxy and to the center of the galaxy did in fact happen despite the fact that the speeds required were well beyond what the engines should've been capable of accomplishing and feats that were not repeated later on. The Hobus Supernova is in STO as a historic event that affects what has transpired since 2387 because Star Trek (2009) was canon. The Soft Canon events from the novelverse such as the Caeliar, Typhon Pact, Borg Invasion were all instantly pushed aside by that, but there were still certain events from that, that carried over such as the Imperial Romulan State and the Vesta.
There are even things like Franz Joseph's Starfleet ship designs that WERE hard canon, but then evicted from canon by the creator.
I think the nice thing is, the science of the Star Trek universe fully allows for ALL of these things to be true. Each separate sequence of events could simply be another timeline, another quantum universe showing different...possibilities. As the canon article says,
"When there are multiple "official" works or original media, the question of what is and what is not canonical can be unclear. This is resolved either by explicitly excluding certain media from the status of canon (as in the case of Star Trek and Star Wars), by assigning different levels of canonicity to different media (as was in the case of Star Wars before the franchise was purchased by Disney), by considering different but licensed media treatments official and equally canonical to the series timeline within their own continuities universe, but not across them".
Based on the amount of creative control Roddenberry exerted over the first seasons of Star Trek, some people argue that only Roddenberry-approved material should be considered canon.[27] Such an approach would eliminate from canon anything Roddenberry didn't like, as well as everything made after his death, including six movies and three TV series.
However, Roddenberry himself preemptively rebuked such an attitude. He had hoped that Star Trek would go on after his death.[28] As Star Trek was constantly improved by each following generation, he expected people to look back upon its humble beginnings as just that, the simple beginnings of something much bigger and better.[29] Roddenberry clearly never intended Star Trek to be limited to his work, but to include all the hopefully superior work of future generations.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
Something non-scripted where you would need to actually explore without being spoon fed where to go and what to do.
Something like this is exactly why we don't have an exploration system. Stuff like this actually requires more work then both the old exploration system, and the story missions.
True. To institute such a system and have it provide a quality meaningful experience would require it to be the primary focus of the game in many if not all ways.
By this definition, Star Trek: Deep Space Nine, Star Trek: Voyager, Star Trek: Enterprise, and all Star Trek films after Star Trek VI (and apparently 15 minutes of that since Gene wanted them removed) are ALL fan fiction.
No, it isn't, because CBS owns the series. and thus, are the ones who get to determine canon. Your entire post is a response based on a straw man of what I actually said. Try harder next time.
Also, the term "soft canon" was something made up by delusional fanbases trying to self validate their own fan fiction as being somewhat canon, and represents the worst impulses of fandumb.
You don't dictate how much effort I put into anything.
Seeing as how I was directly quoting you, you should refrain from using Strawmans. You were attempting to selectively quote something without using everything that was said on the subject.
So things produced directly by CBS are canon, then why are things that are authorized to be produced by CBS then fanfiction, when they are officially licensed, authorized, and professionally made?
Personally, the idea of only filmed Desilu/Paramount/CBS produced Star Trek being canon is fine. It was the policy at one point, and though it isn't the current policy, it's a perfectly logical starting point.
Your insistence on Star Trek Online and the novels being fanfiction is preposterous. Works authorized and supported by the owner and operator of the work cannot be fanfiction. Nor does anything in your definition of fanfiction that you posted encapsulate Star Trek Online. The majority of people who have worked on Star Trek after TOS are fans. Fans working on it does not automatically confer fanfiction status on it when there are so many other determining factors.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
Interesting point: for now the only area of the galactic map STO has used has been on the 2-dimensional plane - a flat horizon using only the first 4 points of a 3 dimensional space. Call them North, South, East and West. Sure, there is a 'small' 3D space within that area, but it's still only a flat map. But what if they ever realized this and expanded the map into a 3d 'Sphere', such as a real space map would cover? All they'd have to do is add the 5th and 6th points used by 3 Dimensional space (call them Up and Down) and you'd increase the map area exponentially.
And stars exist both above and below the horizon line of the galaxy, not just in a flat plane.
drop it. You clearly have your mind set on what is and isn't. You also clearly have no clue about what the hell you're talking about.
Here's a quick list of terms you need to actually look up:
1. Canon
2. Hard Canon/ Core Canon
3. Soft Canon
4. Fan Fiction
5. Fans/ Otaku
6. Non-Canon
7. Franchise/ Business
8. Popular Canon
9. Personal Canon
You are clearly stuck in the last one. You also need to re-educate yourself on how a business and a franchise work.
Are you familiar with the film: Axanar? For a graphic example, Axanar started off as fanfiction, produced by fans. It is NOT licensed by anyone who is part of the star trek franchise. But the minute they reformed as a business, it was no longer fanfiction and broke the international licensing laws. In other words - it is illegal as hell AND non-canon. The people involved in its creation are now facing possible prison time and major fines.
To sum up our 're-educate somtaawkhar' lesson:
- Canon is anything that falls under a franchise via licensed works.
- Hard Canon is the same thing as Core Canon, which is the part of the franchise recognized by the current owner of that franchise as being valid or most current.
- Soft Canon is still part of the franchise, but is either not owned by the current owner of the franchise or dismissed by them. It includes only licensed or recognized works.
- FanFiction is produced by fans (not businesses), is unlicensed, and usually not-for-profit as it is illegal to persue profit from something that is licensed which you do not own.
- Fans/ Otaku... Look it up. They are not and never can be a business.
- Non-Canon: any work that involves the characters or background/world of a franchise but is not part of that franchise; aka: fanfiction.
- Franchise/ Business: simple terms it's part of a license and for profit; aka: Canon.
- Popular Canon: that part of the canon which is publically accepted.
- Personal Canon: your personal mythos or that which YOU feel is part of the canon and ignores everything else.
STO is NOT FanFiction. Please get that through your head.
Also, you have to realize your argument involving the 'definition of canon' is invalid, since your are pointing to something that is no longer recognized as valid. I've already stated and provided you with the latest definition of what's canon as listed by CBS. What you're referring to was drafted by Paramount, who no longer has any say in the matter. CBS threw that out.
All we can do at this point, is ask that you refrain from ever making any more comments with any of the words defined above. At least until you learn what they actually mean, which is FAR more than just a dry definition, as they encompass entire industries of individuals.
I could quote other posts above as I have @Itminns below, but they all say nearly the exact same thing. You're just refusing to listen.
This is really good news! Would love to see the Delta Quadrant get expanded in time also. More space! More space! More space! Good job developers!
Unfortunately, the Delta Quadrant probably will not be expanded. The sectors in game represent areas of space where Voyager traveled.
Sylleran Sector: This represents the latter part of Voyager's 3rd year in the Delta Quadrant.
Nekrit expanse marks the northern border
Sakari system (Survivors of a Borg attack that Voyager encountered)
Parein was the system the Borg Cooperative lived on
Farn system
Jarleth (named for the member of a nomadic tribe that was captured by the Nyrians)
Argala system (the name of one of the Nyrian habitats)
Alsuran Sector: Represents Voyager's 4th year in the Delta Quadrant.
Nassordin System: They were a species that the B'omar were trading with in 2374.
Kendren System: This was a system that had a planet that the genome stealer that took on Tom's form wanted to take B'elanna down to for a picnic.
Kyana System: The famous Krenim colony that Annorax's wife was from.
Ram Izad System: They were an enemy of the Krenim.
Zahl System: A benevolent species that was at one point erased from time by the Krenim.
Jenolan Dyson Sphere: Obviously this is where we officially enter the Delta Quadrant from the Beta Quadrant.
Kotaba Sector: Represents another portion of the 4th year of Voyager's journey.
Al'yans System: Original system for the game.
Entaba System: Another orignal system, the home of Neelix's relocated Talaxians.
Kobali System: A former Vaadwaur Supremacy world that the Kobali colonized to call home.
Nanipia System: An actual system named on the star charts book.
New Talax System: A system that Neelix had picked out to be the permanent home for his colony of Talaxians.
Shenda System: The Vaadwaur stage this system for an Ocampa Freighter in distress.
Trakia System: A named system in the Star Charts book, said to be in Hirogen space. Hence why the patrol system uses a Hirogen claimed relay station.
Devore Sector: Covers Voyager's 5th year in the delta quadrant (In actuality, Voyager jumped about 30K lightyears during 2375, so there's a good chunk that gets skipped over)
Gerren System: This system features a few Vaadwaur that wish to defect from the fighting.
Nal Shadaan System: Said to be the home of a pre-warp, space age era species. (in actuality, this system should be further down).
Nular System: A system that for some reason has not had a successful colony in it. Vaadwaur seem to be interested in this system.
Tekara System: A system only named from the star charts book.
Xiokel System: A system that was used in the game as a way to get the Benthans and Hazari to unite with the alliance.
Markonia Sector: Represents the area of space that Voyager traveled in during its 6th year of space)
Kinbar System: A Heirarchy controlled system. (name taken from Star Charts)
Legira System: Used by Rai Sahen as a point to listen in on the Vaadwaur to see what they are up to.
Orendal System: System where the Heirarchy ambushes the player. (name taken from Star Charts)
Rivos System: Phony Distress call placed by a Hazari captain contracted by Qwen against the player.
Shivolia System: Heirachy attack the player here, and a Benthan aids them in fending them off.
Turei System: Homeworld of the Turei.
Vaadwaur System: Homeworld of The Vaadwaur.
Yontasa Sector: Represents the final area that Voyager was said to travel through.
Brothra System: System where the Octanti and Borg Cooperative fight against the Vaadwaur who damage them.
Hodos System: Represents a course qualifier for the race that Tom flew in during the final year of Voyager's year in the delta quadrant.
Kartella System: A named system from Star Charts and the a system revisited more than once during the Delta Quadrant arc.
Kelsid System: Another named system from Star Charts book.
Molinya System: The player uses a Vaadwaur ship scavenged in this system in order to infiltrate Kartella.
Orlitus System/cluster: The player aids the Lleiset against a boarding via the Vaadwaur here.
Pansarka System: A system where the player is attacked by a Hirogen captain.
Wyanti System: Tom and Neelix first meet the Voyager con artists here.
Since we already been told the largest any map can be is 8x8 (the Delta Quadrant for instance is 1x6 right now), we have a maximum of 2 more sectors that can be added to this map. They're not so quick to add any more to the map when a lot of it is largely skipped sections.
Interesting point: for now the only area of the galactic map STO has used has been on the 2-dimensional plane - a flat horizon using only the first 4 points of a 3 dimensional space. Call them North, South, East and West. Sure, there is a 'small' 3D space within that area, but it's still only a flat map. But what if they ever realized this and expanded the map into a 3d 'Sphere', such as a real space map would cover? All they'd have to do is add the 5th and 6th points used by 3 Dimensional space (call them Up and Down) and you'd increase the map area exponentially.
And stars exist both above and below the horizon line of the galaxy, not just in a flat plane.
Making the map 3d like that would be rather pointless as the develops already solar systems at various heights within the sectors they do have in order to account for that, and already include star that are several sectors "up" and "down" from where they would be.
All making it "3d" like that would do is make travel times even worse.
actually, doing this would add more realism to the game, giving it depth. as said, even though within it, it holds a small illusion of depth, it's still a flat map, meaning you still have to go left, right, forwards, backwards to get anywhere and up and down have virtually zero application in the game. (How many games do you know of that you have to corkscrew to go up and down? Seriously?) You don't even look in those directions when moving across STO. Only saying that's how it is in the game - like a horse wearing blinders, it only lets you see what's 'right there' and nothing else. Travel time isn't even a consideration.
Did you really need the last parenthetical comment for crying out loud. Grow up already. You go great guns on the rest of the post and then throw it out the window because you just can't control yourself.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
actually, doing this would add more realism to the game, giving it depth. as said, even though within it, it holds a small illusion of depth, it's still a flat map, meaning you still have to go left, right, forwards, backwards to get anywhere and up and down have virtually zero application in the game. (How many games do you know of that you have to corkscrew to go up and down? Seriously?) You don't even look in those directions when moving across STO. Only saying that's how it is in the game - like a horse wearing blinders, it only lets you see what's 'right there' and nothing else. Travel time isn't even a consideration.
A. Depth in video games has nothing to do with realism, it has to do with the complexity of the game's mechanics.
B. Travel time is most certainly a consideration. Cryptic has even admitted to moving some thing from their locations on the Star charts to make travel times, especially in the early game, easier.
C. When it comes to space games, most space games I know make you do a corkscrew turn to move up or down because true 3d movement is something of a pain to implement because of how non-typical it is. Not to mention the Star Trek shows basically always treated space as flat themselves, making very little if any real mentions of height.
D. All of this ignores the bigger problem that, if they make the map "3d", they would have to make the map smaller in terms of length X width to accommodate the height.
As it stands now the maximum size for any one map is 8(wide)x8(long)x1(high), making it 3d would change the maximum map size to 4x4x4, drastically reducing the amount of systems they could cover just so they could place a few systems high up/down, which is an obvious waste that serve no purpose, and only reduces how many locations we can have in the game.
In short, the entire idea is flawed from top to bottom(much like every one of your ideas)
I should let someone else address the misconceptions here, but -
as far as maps: try playing EVE ONLINE. I'm not promoting it, only showing the difference and a 'possible way' commonly used to address the problem of travel-time (which is EASY to address!).
As for the corkscrew, the problem is they are not using the player's horizon for point zero, they are using the map horizon for point zero. The game is built around it, so it can't be changed. But the difference is covered in basic game design.
And although it 'looks' like the show always acted as if the map was flat, that is a visual illusion. If you actually look at the surrounding material in the background you'll see they don't stay on one plane, but go up, down and every which a way. The Camera is just in-line with the ship, aka: the viewer's horizon.
Let's see. What else?
ah! If they made a 3d map they'd have to make it smaller? not so, since the size of the map has little to do with actual space and more to do with textures. With a vector map, size isn't an issue and a small map consumes exactly the same amount of data as a large one. Picture a Chinese finger-cuff. Push or pull, big or small, it hasn't gained or lost anything but shape. The prob with STO's maps are the textures and a few other things not worth bringing up here.
And you're correct, with the program engine they are using, it isn't possible to correct the problems built into the map itself without making it so cumbersome it fails to function correctly.
I'm not arguing, Som. Was only trying to explain what I ment. Different concepts.
In short, the entire idea is flawed from top to bottom(much like every one of your ideas)
As for this. (...) Not worth addressing, since a little research on your end would prevent it. Let's just keep it civil. If I'm wrong about something, most of the people here will tell you that I'll admit to it. So far in this post though, that's not been an issue, since most of what's been addressed has touched directly upon the industry I work in.
So.
*shrug*
Still, this has nothing to do with the subject at hand.
I was actually hoping to read more information about the new sector maps but as usual whenever an interesting subject comes out it gets hijacked and derailed.
"There is iron in your words of death for all Comanche to see, and so there is iron in your words of life. No signed paper can hold the iron. It must come from men. The words of Ten Bears carries the same iron of life and death. It is good that warriors such as we meet in the struggle of life... or death. It shall be life." - Ten Bears (Will Sampson)
Can we keep it informative, on the topic and civil?
Thank you!
[10:20] Your Lunge deals 4798 (2580) Physical Damage(Critical) to Tosk of Borg.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator "bIghojchugh DaneH, Dumev pagh. bIghojqangbe'chugh, DuQaHlaH pagh." "Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek happiness."~Day[9] "Your fun isn't wrong."~LaughingTrendy
Comments
SWEU was canon. It was dismissed and relabeled SWEU after Disney bought up the rights. They did this to give themselves complete control of the product and remove possible competition and conflicts. and it is STILL canon, just not the one listed by Disney. If the issue comes up in court dealing with the licensing of said products and whether or not they are part of SW, then Disney would loose the case. Once part of a licensed franchise, it stays. It can only be moved around, such as SWEU was when Disney called it a separate universe.
non-canon = fanfiction.
I repeat: no licensed product can be fan-fiction.
this is a legal issue and not open for debate. Ignore it if you want, but please stop mangling it.
Oh wait that one wasn't real.
while less imposing that one was a living thing.
My character Tsin'xing
this is dead wrong ( especially the last bit ) .It's a known fact the Tolkien estate has - on numerous occasions - blocked stuff from appearing b/c it wasn't in line with the lore . SWTOR can't do s**t without the licensors ok-ing it ( this has been stated numerous times by the devs at SWTOR ..they have contact with the IP-owners on a regular basis ) and I'm pretty sure the same will apply to Star Trek ( not b/c they like to spend time on it but because of the value of the license ) . You can be pretty sure that Cryptic has to confer with owners of the IP whenever they plan an expansion . If they don't then they'd lose the license ,it's a simple as that .The mere fact the ST license is so valuable made PWE buy Cryptic in the first place ( not to mention the D&D license ...)
Lithium Cracking Station
Vulcanians
450 Photon Torpedoes to take down a Constitution's Shields.
UESPA
Vulcan has no Moons
...
etc.
Just because it was on-screen doesn't mean it is correct 'canon'. Writers made this up as they went along. There were inconsistencies that can't be explained away. And yes, this being a fully licensed product, it is NOT fan-fiction. PERIOD.
Now to the matter at hand. For the love of God, please stop!!! Isn't this Thread about the new Map on Tribble? Can we get this back on topic? The Map.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Fly up to a system and get the prompt to enter.
Explore the systems..
1) Find patrols to fight off for survival.
2) Find ancient wreckage to explore. (recover R&D recipes, items). Clues to possible quest locations.
3) Find explorable planets.
Explore Planets
1) Find peaceful inhabitants, local quest/rep hubs.
2) Find ancient ruins. Puzzles. Automated defenses. (recover R&D recipes, items). Clues to possible quest locations.
3) Enemy inhabitants. Ground battles, recover tech
Something non-scripted where you would need to actually explore without being spoon fed where to go and what to do.
I'd be happy with them just flying around off in the background.
I'm not sure I'd want to ride on a dragon two football fields long. It would be like the intro of DragonBall Z with Gohan running on Shenron's back.
It just dawned on me it's a dragon the size of a small starship. Actually it's longer than the Defiant. As long as a Constitution without the nacelles.
Yes. If exploration is to be actual exploration then it would require something that may require multiple worlds or multiple visits to piece together events, artifacts, maybe even evidence of unusual spatial phenomena that would then lead to a significant discovery or even a mission and after completion a nice reward for your time.
By this definition, Star Trek: Deep Space Nine, Star Trek: Voyager, Star Trek: Enterprise, and all Star Trek films after Star Trek VI (and apparently 15 minutes of that since Gene wanted them removed) are ALL fan fiction.
That is clearly not the case, so the definition of canon cannot be restricted to only the things that Gene Roddenberry produced, knew of, or approved of personally.
The series owner Paramount and CBS would thus be the default authority on what is highest hard canon and what is not. As CBS has licensed and authorized Cryptic to release this work for a profit and also duly restricted what Cryptic can and cannot do within the rules of the franchise, and when, then Star Trek Online is NOT a fan fiction but an authorized work by the current holder of those creator's rights. A licensed work worked on by professionals with authorization and support from the copyright holder for profit is not a fanfiction.
The fan fiction article on wikipedia states "The term "fan fiction" has been attested in print as early as 1939; in this earliest known citation, it is used in a disparaging way to refer to amateurish science fiction (as opposed to "pro fiction")". While not a canon work, it is professional fiction.
This is why the term soft canon exists for licensed but not official works.
The Hard Canon definition is simply a work that all works that come after it in the continuity must acknowledge and accept as part of its timeline and history, ironically meaning that some of the more outlandish aspects of the original series and movies such as the Enterprise regularly traveling to edge and then out of the Galaxy and to the center of the galaxy did in fact happen despite the fact that the speeds required were well beyond what the engines should've been capable of accomplishing and feats that were not repeated later on. The Hobus Supernova is in STO as a historic event that affects what has transpired since 2387 because Star Trek (2009) was canon. The Soft Canon events from the novelverse such as the Caeliar, Typhon Pact, Borg Invasion were all instantly pushed aside by that, but there were still certain events from that, that carried over such as the Imperial Romulan State and the Vesta.
There are even things like Franz Joseph's Starfleet ship designs that WERE hard canon, but then evicted from canon by the creator.
I think the nice thing is, the science of the Star Trek universe fully allows for ALL of these things to be true. Each separate sequence of events could simply be another timeline, another quantum universe showing different...possibilities. As the canon article says,
"When there are multiple "official" works or original media, the question of what is and what is not canonical can be unclear. This is resolved either by explicitly excluding certain media from the status of canon (as in the case of Star Trek and Star Wars), by assigning different levels of canonicity to different media (as was in the case of Star Wars before the franchise was purchased by Disney), by considering different but licensed media treatments official and equally canonical to the series timeline within their own continuities universe, but not across them".
Oh one more thing.
from the Star Trek Canon article...
Roddenberry-approved material
Based on the amount of creative control Roddenberry exerted over the first seasons of Star Trek, some people argue that only Roddenberry-approved material should be considered canon.[27] Such an approach would eliminate from canon anything Roddenberry didn't like, as well as everything made after his death, including six movies and three TV series.
However, Roddenberry himself preemptively rebuked such an attitude. He had hoped that Star Trek would go on after his death.[28] As Star Trek was constantly improved by each following generation, he expected people to look back upon its humble beginnings as just that, the simple beginnings of something much bigger and better.[29] Roddenberry clearly never intended Star Trek to be limited to his work, but to include all the hopefully superior work of future generations.
True. To institute such a system and have it provide a quality meaningful experience would require it to be the primary focus of the game in many if not all ways.
You don't dictate how much effort I put into anything.
Seeing as how I was directly quoting you, you should refrain from using Strawmans. You were attempting to selectively quote something without using everything that was said on the subject.
So things produced directly by CBS are canon, then why are things that are authorized to be produced by CBS then fanfiction, when they are officially licensed, authorized, and professionally made?
Personally, the idea of only filmed Desilu/Paramount/CBS produced Star Trek being canon is fine. It was the policy at one point, and though it isn't the current policy, it's a perfectly logical starting point.
Your insistence on Star Trek Online and the novels being fanfiction is preposterous. Works authorized and supported by the owner and operator of the work cannot be fanfiction. Nor does anything in your definition of fanfiction that you posted encapsulate Star Trek Online. The majority of people who have worked on Star Trek after TOS are fans. Fans working on it does not automatically confer fanfiction status on it when there are so many other determining factors.
My character Tsin'xing
That is literally the opposite of how any of this works.
Exactly where are the Tribble homeworlds?
The Tribble homeworld was destroyed buy the Klingons.
And stars exist both above and below the horizon line of the galaxy, not just in a flat plane.
drop it. You clearly have your mind set on what is and isn't. You also clearly have no clue about what the hell you're talking about.
Here's a quick list of terms you need to actually look up:
1. Canon
2. Hard Canon/ Core Canon
3. Soft Canon
4. Fan Fiction
5. Fans/ Otaku
6. Non-Canon
7. Franchise/ Business
8. Popular Canon
9. Personal Canon
You are clearly stuck in the last one. You also need to re-educate yourself on how a business and a franchise work.
Are you familiar with the film: Axanar? For a graphic example, Axanar started off as fanfiction, produced by fans. It is NOT licensed by anyone who is part of the star trek franchise. But the minute they reformed as a business, it was no longer fanfiction and broke the international licensing laws. In other words - it is illegal as hell AND non-canon. The people involved in its creation are now facing possible prison time and major fines.
To sum up our 're-educate somtaawkhar' lesson:
- Canon is anything that falls under a franchise via licensed works.
- Hard Canon is the same thing as Core Canon, which is the part of the franchise recognized by the current owner of that franchise as being valid or most current.
- Soft Canon is still part of the franchise, but is either not owned by the current owner of the franchise or dismissed by them. It includes only licensed or recognized works.
- FanFiction is produced by fans (not businesses), is unlicensed, and usually not-for-profit as it is illegal to persue profit from something that is licensed which you do not own.
- Fans/ Otaku... Look it up. They are not and never can be a business.
- Non-Canon: any work that involves the characters or background/world of a franchise but is not part of that franchise; aka: fanfiction.
- Franchise/ Business: simple terms it's part of a license and for profit; aka: Canon.
- Popular Canon: that part of the canon which is publically accepted.
- Personal Canon: your personal mythos or that which YOU feel is part of the canon and ignores everything else.
STO is NOT FanFiction. Please get that through your head.
Here is a list of some of the current license holders. You'll see Cryptic on the list.
http://www.startrek.com/licensees
Also, you have to realize your argument involving the 'definition of canon' is invalid, since your are pointing to something that is no longer recognized as valid. I've already stated and provided you with the latest definition of what's canon as listed by CBS. What you're referring to was drafted by Paramount, who no longer has any say in the matter. CBS threw that out.
All we can do at this point, is ask that you refrain from ever making any more comments with any of the words defined above. At least until you learn what they actually mean, which is FAR more than just a dry definition, as they encompass entire industries of individuals.
I could quote other posts above as I have @Itminns below, but they all say nearly the exact same thing. You're just refusing to listen.
w - w - whaaa?!
Blowed-up-sir?!
Aw, man...
>.<
Technically, the Tribble homeworld according to the Star charts book that cryptic is basing their maps on would be in the Beta Quadrant.
My character Tsin'xing
They decloak when you buy em from me :P
and really? yall STILL off topic on this whining about the same TRIBBLE?? FFS need to restock....
@jodarkrider @ambassadorkael#6946 hasnt this gone on long enough?? The topic is so lost at this point.
Unfortunately, the Delta Quadrant probably will not be expanded. The sectors in game represent areas of space where Voyager traveled.
Sylleran Sector: This represents the latter part of Voyager's 3rd year in the Delta Quadrant.
Alsuran Sector: Represents Voyager's 4th year in the Delta Quadrant.
Kotaba Sector: Represents another portion of the 4th year of Voyager's journey.
Devore Sector: Covers Voyager's 5th year in the delta quadrant (In actuality, Voyager jumped about 30K lightyears during 2375, so there's a good chunk that gets skipped over)
Markonia Sector: Represents the area of space that Voyager traveled in during its 6th year of space)
Yontasa Sector: Represents the final area that Voyager was said to travel through.
Since we already been told the largest any map can be is 8x8 (the Delta Quadrant for instance is 1x6 right now), we have a maximum of 2 more sectors that can be added to this map. They're not so quick to add any more to the map when a lot of it is largely skipped sections.
actually, doing this would add more realism to the game, giving it depth. as said, even though within it, it holds a small illusion of depth, it's still a flat map, meaning you still have to go left, right, forwards, backwards to get anywhere and up and down have virtually zero application in the game. (How many games do you know of that you have to corkscrew to go up and down? Seriously?) You don't even look in those directions when moving across STO. Only saying that's how it is in the game - like a horse wearing blinders, it only lets you see what's 'right there' and nothing else. Travel time isn't even a consideration.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
I should let someone else address the misconceptions here, but -
as far as maps: try playing EVE ONLINE. I'm not promoting it, only showing the difference and a 'possible way' commonly used to address the problem of travel-time (which is EASY to address!).
As for the corkscrew, the problem is they are not using the player's horizon for point zero, they are using the map horizon for point zero. The game is built around it, so it can't be changed. But the difference is covered in basic game design.
And although it 'looks' like the show always acted as if the map was flat, that is a visual illusion. If you actually look at the surrounding material in the background you'll see they don't stay on one plane, but go up, down and every which a way. The Camera is just in-line with the ship, aka: the viewer's horizon.
Let's see. What else?
ah! If they made a 3d map they'd have to make it smaller? not so, since the size of the map has little to do with actual space and more to do with textures. With a vector map, size isn't an issue and a small map consumes exactly the same amount of data as a large one. Picture a Chinese finger-cuff. Push or pull, big or small, it hasn't gained or lost anything but shape. The prob with STO's maps are the textures and a few other things not worth bringing up here.
And you're correct, with the program engine they are using, it isn't possible to correct the problems built into the map itself without making it so cumbersome it fails to function correctly.
I'm not arguing, Som. Was only trying to explain what I ment. Different concepts.
As for this. (...) Not worth addressing, since a little research on your end would prevent it. Let's just keep it civil. If I'm wrong about something, most of the people here will tell you that I'll admit to it. So far in this post though, that's not been an issue, since most of what's been addressed has touched directly upon the industry I work in.
So.
*shrug*
Still, this has nothing to do with the subject at hand.
again.
So what's something you'd like to know about, and maybe someone worthwhile can get it back on track.
What do you think @jodarkrider?
Thank you!
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