For Mac users and others who do not own a Windows 10 license
ANY Mac/Linux user that doesn't have a free Windows 10 from the Windows Insider Program FOR JUST THIS KIND OF MOMENT is intentionally shooting themselves in the foot. Seriously, Insider Win 10 is free.
One of the many Tellarite Goddesses of Beauty!
If there are posts here that do not appeal to you, or opinions you disagree with, the best way to deal with that is to resist the urge to add comments. Instead, engage with the content you like! Don't feed the trolls!
my father just got upgraded to a win7 machine.... course they also use dot matrix printers still with green bar paper.... yes that is a special order paper now a days that costs a shitload more than upgrading their printers would.
For Mac users and others who do not own a Windows 10 license
ANY Mac/Linux user that doesn't have a free Windows 10 from the Windows Insider Program FOR JUST THIS KIND OF MOMENT is intentionally shooting themselves in the foot. Seriously, Insider Win 10 is free.
Insider Windows 10 is not "free". A genuine version of Windows 10 is required to be installed on the computer before a person can participate in the Windows Insider program which is primarily for development purposes to test early build versions.
Unless Microsoft has changed their policy recently.
For Mac users and others who do not own a Windows 10 license
ANY Mac/Linux user that doesn't have a free Windows 10 from the Windows Insider Program FOR JUST THIS KIND OF MOMENT is intentionally shooting themselves in the foot. Seriously, Insider Win 10 is free.
Insider Windows 10 is not "free". A genuine version of Windows 10 is required to be installed on the computer before a person can participate in the Windows Insider program which is primarily for development purposes to test early build versions.
Unless Microsoft has changed their policy recently.
that's not quite accurate, I signed up for the windows insider program and installed a free pre release version of windows 10 long before windows 10 was ever released.
I am continuing to participate in the program and so far have never been required to buy or install a paid for version of windows 10.
how it stands now I couldn't say, but I did hear that the free sign ups for the program had ended at one point but more users may have been able to join after they had released the free full version in the first year.
as the free full version has ended now and you will have to pay to upgrade to windows 10 I cant say what the status is.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
that's not quite accurate, I signed up for the windows insider program and installed a free pre release version of windows 10 long before windows 10 was ever released.
I am continuing to participate in the program and so far have never been required to buy or install a paid for version of windows 10.
how it stands now I couldn't say, but I did hear that the free sign
ups for the program had ended at one point but more users may have been able to join after they had released the free full version in the first year.
as the free full version has ended now and you will have to pay to upgrade to windows 10 I cant say what the status is.
For s.h.!.t. and giggles, I signed up for the Windows Insider Program (WIP). Below is screenshot of what needs to be done once you signed up for WIP. Basically you need to have Windows 10 installed since going into the Advanced Options is required in order to get access to Insider builds.
Basically, the Windows Insider Program is "FREE" in a sense that it does not cost anything to become an Insider so as long as Windows 10 installed on the PC / laptop you are using is genuine. As for getting a copy of the pre release version of Windows 10... well obviously by now that is no longer an option.
You can still upgrade to Windows 10 for free using the 'Assistive Technologies' Program.
True, people can still upgrade from Win 7 & 8 to Win 10 for free.
My comment was directed more at fluffymoof's comment about being able to get Windows 10 for free via the Windows Insiders Program which is not true since a genuine copy of Windows 10 needs to be installed on the PC / laptop before being able access Windows 10 builds exclusive to Windows Insiders for free. Therefore, the Windows Insider Program will not help people using Linux or Mac OS.
You can still upgrade to Windows 10 for free using the 'Assistive Technologies' Program.
True, people can still upgrade from Win 7 & 8 to Win 10 for free.
My comment was directed more at fluffymoof's comment about being able to get Windows 10 for free via the Windows Insiders Program which is not true since a genuine copy of Windows 10 needs to be installed on the PC / laptop before being able access Windows 10 builds exclusive to Windows Insiders for free. Therefore, the Windows Insider Program will not help people using Linux or Mac OS.
Ah, I see now, thanks. You're right about the insider program.
I find the notion of people wanting to use a Microsoft anything to be quite absurd, but I shan't judge. Still, Windows 7 is an adequate replacement for XP. It still uses a sensible UI and can support a more up-to-date DirectX. Windows 10 is spyware garbage.
I use Classic Shell to make Windows 8.1 look like Windows 7.
Free or not I couldn't see upgrading to something that was marketed like malware and that I had to get a program to pull the gwx. Exe program so it would stop offering it to me continuously.
I recently inherited a broken win10 laptop, after fixing it Ive been TRIBBLE around with win10. Ye gods is it ever spyware at least you can kill most of that. I don't hate it, but I'm plannin to stick with win7 until I cant.
I recently inherited a broken win10 laptop, after fixing it Ive been **** around with win10. Ye gods is it ever spyware at least you can kill most of that. I don't hate it, but I'm plannin to stick with win7 until I cant.
I really like Windows 10, but I encourage anyone using it to run a privacy tool to turn off all of it's horrible reporting tasks.
You can find a list of several available Privacy Tools here.
I think I have cured the black screen and crashing to desktop issue I have been suffering since the lighting update was applied, sometimes I could play for a little while before it would hit, maybe long enough to run through a crystalline mission during the event or enough to run the fastest game on ice before a crash, other times I couldn't even get past the character selection screen without a crash, its been driving me bonkers.
the prospect of the changes on the 1st march filled me with dread, although I thought my laptop hardware and OS should be up to the job the thought that this might be the final nail in the coffin for running sto on my laptop which was not a happy prospect even though I have a desktop that runs sto without issue I tend to play the most on my laptop.
after discussing the issue with a fleet mate and telling him hew I had tweaked just about every setting there is in the game to no avail he suggested had I checked to see I had the latest drivers installed on my laptop, being as it was most definitely a graphics issue I thought I would check this but made the mistake of typing on google "best graphics driver" instead of "latest graphics driver".
the result showed me that I was running a later version of the graphics driver then what was suggested as the best and with nothing to loose I installed the suggested best but older version.
needless to say so far it seems to have done the trick after the "downgrade" I haven't experienced one crash (crossed fingers) and played for several hours yesterday without issue.
perhaps this is one time that latest version is not necessarily the best version.
I am filled with hope.
Acer Aspire 5742Z duel core CPU with 6GB ram & 64bit windows 10 home.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
Thats entirely possible bobby, recently I had an issue with an nvidia driver TRIBBLE up my fallout 4, then they fixed that and the new driver caused a small graphical issue in SWTOR for me, finally the third driver they released fixed it all.
With the coming demise of DX9 (and XP) support coming in March, which is typically around the time we see a new system overhaul or seasonal release...could this indicate that we are about to see some serious, long awaited graphics engine overhauls coming?
The groundwork of which could be the already introduced Lighting 2.0.
By removing DX9 support they are removing entire layers of code compatability which could be what has been holding back serious engine development
With the coming demise of DX9 (and XP) support coming in March, which is typically around the time we see a new system overhaul or seasonal release...could this indicate that we are about to see some serious, long awaited graphics engine overhauls coming?
The groundwork of which could be the already introduced Lighting 2.0.
By removing DX9 support they are removing entire layers of code compatability which could be what has been holding back serious engine development
Lighting 2.0 is still rather crass now. But when it gets smoothed out (you *are* going to smooth it out, right, Cryptic?!), and the majority of the player base is using it, maintaining DX9 support is going to be pretty much undoable.
As a company, you also want something what the Devs in Second Like call the shared experience, aka: whilst STO will still always allow for lower graphics settings, of course, you essentially want everyone to share the same visual experience as much as possible.
As for an entire new Engine in the works? Hmm, I'm skeptical on that one, but who knows?! Regardless, dumping the old compatibility code is a good thing, if for nothing else, because it frees up the Devs' hands, to pursue some more worthwhile projects.
According to Steam's hardware surveys http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/
50.62% - DX12GPU & WIN10
22.22% - DX12GPU & Pre-WIN10
13.44% - DX11GPU & Vista+
10.52% - DX10GPU & Vista+
0.75% - DX10/11/12GPU & XP
2.45% - Other
Also, according to the same data, Windows XP only makes up 1.19% of PC users operating systems.
That's all of Steam users, not STO. Specific numbers will likely be different for this particular game, simply due to it previously supporting a wider range of OS and hardware than a good deal of Steam games. While I doubt that XP users are a particularly large segment, the numbers for those that don't have Direct3D 11 capability, due to unresolved driver issues or running WINE on Linux or Mac (which, despite the title, is mostly what has been the discussion in-thread).
According to Steam's hardware surveys http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/
50.62% - DX12GPU & WIN10
22.22% - DX12GPU & Pre-WIN10
13.44% - DX11GPU & Vista+
10.52% - DX10GPU & Vista+
0.75% - DX10/11/12GPU & XP
2.45% - Other
Also, according to the same data, Windows XP only makes up 1.19% of PC users operating systems.
It would be nice if Steam also included the estimate number of Steam accounts and also the number of people who participated in the survey. That could be used to determine if the number of respondents represent a good sample size of all Steam accounts and how accurate the data is.
For example, if there are 10 million Steam accounts, then to get a 95% confidence level and an error margin of +/-2%, only 2,400 Steam account holders needs to participate in the survey. For 99% confidence with at +/-2% error margin, the sample size would need to be 4,159 participants.
SWTOR recently added an expansion that does the same thing that STO does when trying to run it windowed, namely starting the game window offset from the monitor viewing space so I have to grab it and move it into position every time.
When I tried to adjust SWTOR to the maximized window setting, it dropped my resolution from it's native 1920 x 1200 to the smallest selectable. Restart did not fix it.
I finally just optimized the game in GeForce Experience and that fixed it.
Maybe this could help people with STO?
I didn't see STO as one of the selectable games in GeForce Experience but I'm sure you could add it.
Yep, time has come, 2017 will change things. but while so many seem eager to say "Just Install Microsofts latest spy-in-a-box." I wonder, will those early gaming rebels who committed to trying the steam and linux route, made that hardware overkill build, a Multi Xenon or Operon all RAM Stacked. A perfect Linux Gaming\Space Heater. I seriously doubt any will do that. Why bother filling ram with a game that forces a obsolete slow janky DirectX compliant Virtual instance in 2017 when plenty of newer titles have the foresight to use Vulkan graphics for compatibility.
Hey, why won't this game support my Commodore 64? It still works!
Because your using the wrong floppy , or something is wrong with your DOS , what windows does it have 10,000 BC? lol
I miss my old Comm 64 alot of good times spent wearing out those floppy games
Didn't have one of those - had an Amstrad CPC-464. Games loaded via cassette tape and often took a good five minutes to get to the game title screen. Assuming that the tape didn't wind up jumping or being chewed.
I had a C64 and a C128, I also had a Amiga1200 and a spectrum 128+2 but my first computer was a Sinclair ZX81.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
Windows XP came out in 2001. That's 15 years ago.
What would you have said to someone in 2010, still running Windows 95?
Well if it were one of my mates who was still using win 95 in 2010 , id probably told him it was the game he was fine to keep using win 95 , then tell everyone he knows to keep their mouth shut and to see how long he would use it till he relised it WAS his windows lol
Ok sure me and my old mates would prank each other ALOT lol.
Yep, time has come, 2017 will change things. but while so many seem eager to say "Just Install Microsofts latest spy-in-a-box." I wonder, will those early gaming rebels who committed to trying the steam and linux route, made that hardware overkill build, a Multi Xenon or Operon all RAM Stacked. A perfect Linux Gaming\Space Heater. I seriously doubt any will do that. Why bother filling ram with a game that forces a obsolete slow janky DirectX compliant Virtual instance in 2017 when plenty of newer titles have the foresight to use Vulkan graphics for compatibility.
Not really -- wiki lists a grand total of 8 Windows games, with Doom, a Need for Speed and DOTA2 being the AAA titles.
Yep, time has come, 2017 will change things. but while so many seem eager to say "Just Install Microsofts latest spy-in-a-box." I wonder, will those early gaming rebels who committed to trying the steam and linux route, made that hardware overkill build, a Multi Xenon or Operon all RAM Stacked. A perfect Linux Gaming\Space Heater. I seriously doubt any will do that. Why bother filling ram with a game that forces a obsolete slow janky DirectX compliant Virtual instance in 2017 when plenty of newer titles have the foresight to use Vulkan graphics for compatibility.
Exactly. At least my computer will never run said spy-in-a-box so if STO stops running on real OS's I'll stop playing it.
Yep, time has come, 2017 will change things. but while so many seem eager to say "Just Install Microsofts latest spy-in-a-box." I wonder, will those early gaming rebels who committed to trying the steam and linux route, made that hardware overkill build, a Multi Xenon or Operon all RAM Stacked. A perfect Linux Gaming\Space Heater. I seriously doubt any will do that. Why bother filling ram with a game that forces a obsolete slow janky DirectX compliant Virtual instance in 2017 when plenty of newer titles have the foresight to use Vulkan graphics for compatibility.
Not really -- wiki lists a grand total of 8 Windows games, with Doom, a Need for Speed and DOTA2 being the AAA titles.
Wine Wrapper is Windows XP based? So the doh123 created wrapper which Mac Players use, will be unusable after march 1. 2017? Is it possible to update the wine wrapper? Anybody knows?
Comments
ANY Mac/Linux user that doesn't have a free Windows 10 from the Windows Insider Program FOR JUST THIS KIND OF MOMENT is intentionally shooting themselves in the foot. Seriously, Insider Win 10 is free.
If there are posts here that do not appeal to you, or opinions you disagree with, the best way to deal with that is to resist the urge to add comments. Instead, engage with the content you like! Don't feed the trolls!
Insider Windows 10 is not "free". A genuine version of Windows 10 is required to be installed on the computer before a person can participate in the Windows Insider program which is primarily for development purposes to test early build versions.
Unless Microsoft has changed their policy recently.
that's not quite accurate, I signed up for the windows insider program and installed a free pre release version of windows 10 long before windows 10 was ever released.
I am continuing to participate in the program and so far have never been required to buy or install a paid for version of windows 10.
how it stands now I couldn't say, but I did hear that the free sign ups for the program had ended at one point but more users may have been able to join after they had released the free full version in the first year.
as the free full version has ended now and you will have to pay to upgrade to windows 10 I cant say what the status is.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
For s.h.!.t. and giggles, I signed up for the Windows Insider Program (WIP). Below is screenshot of what needs to be done once you signed up for WIP. Basically you need to have Windows 10 installed since going into the Advanced Options is required in order to get access to Insider builds.
Basically, the Windows Insider Program is "FREE" in a sense that it does not cost anything to become an Insider so as long as Windows 10 installed on the PC / laptop you are using is genuine. As for getting a copy of the pre release version of Windows 10... well obviously by now that is no longer an option.
The best part is, that you don't even have to use Assistive Technologies, it's just one extra click to go to the site. You can find instructions here.
I have a buddy who did it a couple weeks ago and it worked fine. As of today it's still being offered and you can still get Windows 10 for free.
True, people can still upgrade from Win 7 & 8 to Win 10 for free.
My comment was directed more at fluffymoof's comment about being able to get Windows 10 for free via the Windows Insiders Program which is not true since a genuine copy of Windows 10 needs to be installed on the PC / laptop before being able access Windows 10 builds exclusive to Windows Insiders for free. Therefore, the Windows Insider Program will not help people using Linux or Mac OS.
Ah, I see now, thanks. You're right about the insider program.
I use Classic Shell to make Windows 8.1 look like Windows 7.
Free or not I couldn't see upgrading to something that was marketed like malware and that I had to get a program to pull the gwx. Exe program so it would stop offering it to me continuously.
I really like Windows 10, but I encourage anyone using it to run a privacy tool to turn off all of it's horrible reporting tasks.
You can find a list of several available Privacy Tools here.
I personally use Ultimate Windows Tweaker, and I like it.
the prospect of the changes on the 1st march filled me with dread, although I thought my laptop hardware and OS should be up to the job the thought that this might be the final nail in the coffin for running sto on my laptop which was not a happy prospect even though I have a desktop that runs sto without issue I tend to play the most on my laptop.
after discussing the issue with a fleet mate and telling him hew I had tweaked just about every setting there is in the game to no avail he suggested had I checked to see I had the latest drivers installed on my laptop, being as it was most definitely a graphics issue I thought I would check this but made the mistake of typing on google "best graphics driver" instead of "latest graphics driver".
the result showed me that I was running a later version of the graphics driver then what was suggested as the best and with nothing to loose I installed the suggested best but older version.
needless to say so far it seems to have done the trick after the "downgrade" I haven't experienced one crash (crossed fingers) and played for several hours yesterday without issue.
perhaps this is one time that latest version is not necessarily the best version.
I am filled with hope.
Acer Aspire 5742Z duel core CPU with 6GB ram & 64bit windows 10 home.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
With the coming demise of DX9 (and XP) support coming in March, which is typically around the time we see a new system overhaul or seasonal release...could this indicate that we are about to see some serious, long awaited graphics engine overhauls coming?
The groundwork of which could be the already introduced Lighting 2.0.
By removing DX9 support they are removing entire layers of code compatability which could be what has been holding back serious engine development
Lighting 2.0 is still rather crass now. But when it gets smoothed out (you *are* going to smooth it out, right, Cryptic?!), and the majority of the player base is using it, maintaining DX9 support is going to be pretty much undoable.
As a company, you also want something what the Devs in Second Like call the shared experience, aka: whilst STO will still always allow for lower graphics settings, of course, you essentially want everyone to share the same visual experience as much as possible.
As for an entire new Engine in the works? Hmm, I'm skeptical on that one, but who knows?!
That's all of Steam users, not STO. Specific numbers will likely be different for this particular game, simply due to it previously supporting a wider range of OS and hardware than a good deal of Steam games. While I doubt that XP users are a particularly large segment, the numbers for those that don't have Direct3D 11 capability, due to unresolved driver issues or running WINE on Linux or Mac (which, despite the title, is mostly what has been the discussion in-thread).
I'd also be interested to know what the "pre-win10" is in that.
And, well: Means it doesn't actually prove anything.
It would be nice if Steam also included the estimate number of Steam accounts and also the number of people who participated in the survey. That could be used to determine if the number of respondents represent a good sample size of all Steam accounts and how accurate the data is.
For example, if there are 10 million Steam accounts, then to get a 95% confidence level and an error margin of +/-2%, only 2,400 Steam account holders needs to participate in the survey. For 99% confidence with at +/-2% error margin, the sample size would need to be 4,159 participants.
When I tried to adjust SWTOR to the maximized window setting, it dropped my resolution from it's native 1920 x 1200 to the smallest selectable. Restart did not fix it.
I finally just optimized the game in GeForce Experience and that fixed it.
Maybe this could help people with STO?
I didn't see STO as one of the selectable games in GeForce Experience but I'm sure you could add it.
Because your using the wrong floppy , or something is wrong with your DOS , what windows does it have 10,000 BC? lol
I miss my old Comm 64 alot of good times spent wearing out those floppy games
I had a C64 and a C128, I also had a Amiga1200 and a spectrum 128+2 but my first computer was a Sinclair ZX81.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
What would you have said to someone in 2010, still running Windows 95?
Well if it were one of my mates who was still using win 95 in 2010 , id probably told him it was the game he was fine to keep using win 95 , then tell everyone he knows to keep their mouth shut and to see how long he would use it till he relised it WAS his windows lol
Ok sure me and my old mates would prank each other ALOT lol.
Not really -- wiki lists a grand total of 8 Windows games, with Doom, a Need for Speed and DOTA2 being the AAA titles.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_games_with_Vulkan_support
Reality has a Direct3D bias.
Exactly. At least my computer will never run said spy-in-a-box so if STO stops running on real OS's I'll stop playing it.
Guess that must be why STO is the last Windows game I still play.