Roman Empire Legions vs The Army of Mordor

hawkwing43 · November 2016

Who would win in a fight between these two armies? what would be the out come of this type of fight?

To understand them both, I offer up the following.

The Roman Legion:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lv2btm4EQws

The Army of Mordor

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=401BrTPRUwk

evilmark444 · November 2016

Landslide victory for Mordor

theraven2378 · November 2016

I'm going to say early Imperial Legion, around 1st Century BC/AD. Very disciplined and flexible on the battlefield.
Remove the magic and the fantasy creatures, the orcs rely on numbers to overwhelm an opponent. The Roman army was used to fighting out numbered and often won more than they lost.

Classic example being the Battle of Watling Street in AD 60. 10000 Romans against 230000 celts and the Romans destroyed them with minimal losses.

hawkwing43 · November 2016

Here is a bigger break down of the Roman side:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKBWAYZOXqA&t=282s

theraven2378 · November 2016

Roman infantry tactics

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqG_BYF1Tr0

Note how the Roman infantry can rotate their frontline to keep their troops fresh. The troops behind all the down each infantry column holds onto the belt of the man in front to keep them in formation

hawkwing43 · November 2016

I don't see the Mordor army just rolling over the Romans, plus I did say Legions, meaning more than one would be in the fight against the Mordor army.

markhawkman · November 2016

So... you take the army of Mordor, then you take out everything but the cannon fodder grunts, yeah ok, I guess the Romans might win then. but if you leave in Mordor's versions of Artillery and Cavalry.... Uh, no.

artan42 · November 2016

Mordor. They have a mid medieval level of battle technology from plate armour to seige weapons. Plus the have day walking trolls, wargs, Urks, witchcraft that can block out the sun. That's not even getting to the Ware-worms or gunpowder of the Gundabad or Isenguard orcs.

Edit: Oh and the bleeding Nazgul. The Romans were held off by guys in blue body paint, wraiths of fear would be far more effective.

Edit: Sod it. The Trolls themselves are more than enough.

evilmark444 · November 2016

artan42 wrote: »

Mordor. They have a mid medieval level of battle technology from plate armour to seige weapons. Plus the have day walking trolls, wargs, Urks, witchcraft that can block out the sun. That's not even getting to the Ware-worms or gunpowder of the Gundabad or Isenguard orcs.

Exactly. The Romans may have the infantry advantage, but they can't compete with anything else Mordor would throw at them.

starswordc · November 2016

Orcs also have archers. The only stand-off weapon the classical Roman legions routinely carried was the pilum, a type of javelin.

hawkwing43 · November 2016

Here are some of the weapons of the Romans.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7OzLQQlL0k

artan42 · November 2016

hawkwing43 wrote: »

Here are some of the weapons of the Romans.

And here's some of the Orc's.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9-Jx-DjDaU

Edit: Oh bloody hell, that music gets me all over again. I love those films.

evilmark444 · November 2016

artan42 wrote: »

hawkwing43 wrote: »

Here are some of the weapons of the Romans.

And here's some of the Orc's.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9-Jx-DjDaU

Edit: Oh bloody hell, that music gets me all over again. I love those films.

I'd also like to see the Romans somehow defeat an Oliphant

hawkwing43 · November 2016

The romans had range weapons too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTWb_4u7J74

evilmark444 · November 2016

hawkwing43 wrote: »

The romans had range weapons too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTWb_4u7J74

And Mordor has these:

https://youtu.be/KFTc-HUM6aU

legendarylycan · November 2016

you know, i seem to remember the persians had giant elephants too...didn't do them a damn bit of good in the end

artan42 · November 2016

shadowfang240 wrote: »

you know, i seem to remember the persians had giant elephants too...didn't do them a damn bit of good in the end

They had Mûmakil? Really? Or just bog standard elephants?

evilmark444 · November 2016

shadowfang240 wrote: »

you know, i seem to remember the persians had giant elephants too...didn't do them a damn bit of good in the end

Oliphaunts are far larger than any real life elephant

legendarylycan · November 2016

'The bigger they are, the harder they fall'

besides which, mumakil are incredibly vulnerable to arrows, as shown by the fact a few rangers managed to take out an entire convoy of haradrim, which included several mumakil, in less than a minute

they are also downright TERRIFIED of fire

artan42 · November 2016

shadowfang240 wrote: »

'The bigger they are, the harder they fall'

besides which, mumakil are incredibly vulnerable to arrows, as shown by the fact a few rangers managed to take out an entire convoy of haradrim, which included several mumakil, in less than a minute

they are also downright TERRIFIED of fire

They also trampled the rider's like Fury underfoot. They're also not vunrable to arrows. Did you see them tanking them? They were taken down by a elven archer in the eye. Something a Roman archer couldn't achieve.

theraven2378 · November 2016

The Romans had a technique for elephants. At Zama in 202 BC they opened gaps to funnel the elephants through and then blew trumpets at them while peppering them with javelins. The elephants panicked and stampeded through their own side's left flank.

All you've got to do is panic it with lots of noise and missiles, the same would apply to a mumakil

legendarylycan · November 2016

and fire - something the romans were VERY fond of, though i don't know if they ever used it much in actual warfare

if they didn't, they should have

theraven2378 · November 2016

There is no historical first hand sources that mention fire arrows being used from bows in field battles.
Fire Incendiaries were usually launched from artillery weapons like the catapulta and scorpion ballista

markhawkman · November 2016

yeah, movies tend to make fire arrows easier to use than they really were.

legendarylycan · November 2016

how hard can it possibly be to dip the arrowhead in pitch or wrap a piece of flammable material around it?

markhawkman · November 2016

shadowfang240 wrote: »

how hard can it possibly be to dip the arrowhead in pitch or wrap a piece of flammable material around it?

that's NOT the hard part. The hard part is accurately firing an arrow after doing that.

Pitch may not be bulky but it tends to mess up the center of gravity, especially when it's on fire. And wrapping bulky stuff around the arrow? heh, that messes up the aerodynamics a lot worse. The best aren't regular arrows. Even then the range is far less than proper arrows just because of the extra weight.

legendarylycan · November 2016

archers weren't all that accurate to begin with - they'd usually carpet-bomb an area with arrows and hope most of them hit something

these aren't elves we're talking about, after all, and you don't need that much precision to hit a massive catapult or battering ram, or even a cluster of infantry

markhawkman · November 2016

Actually, a skilled marksman was more than capable of hitting a man at 200 yards. The situations you're talking about are massed engagements. You have dozens of moving targets, so the quickest way is to simply fire into the crowd. It's not that the archers couldn't aim, it's that, statistically, they were likely to inflict more injuries with blanket fire since the lack of taking time to aim meant they could reload faster.

It is, however, true that the movie depictions of Robin Hood show him to have almost superhuman skill. Most archers weren't that good. Robin Hood could hit a bullseye at 200 yards, an average archer would be expected to hit the target... somewhere. For massed engagements.... they might use anyone who knows how to use a bow, even people who usually miss at 200 yards.

legendarylycan · November 2016

well, that IS what the thread is about - massed engagements, so that's what i'm working off

Unknown · November 2016

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icerose20 · November 2016

Roman Legions had as many Auxillary troops as they had Legionaries. Archers, Slingers, and Calvary, and they were trained to work with the Legion. In any battle with Early Imperial Romans ii is where the fighting going to be at. You give the Romans the ability to choose the battleground, you might as well give up the war. Mordor may win that battle, but then they will feel like Pryyhus.

Roman Empire Legions vs The Army of Mordor

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