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  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,225 Arc User
    edited November 2016
    talonxv wrote: »
    Been running dual beam banks (as my fore weapons, omnis on the rear) lately on my arbiter battle cruiser. Was thinking of maybe switching to cannons. Trying to up my dps, currently hitting around 35-40k. Running an engineering toon atm. Thoughts?

    On an Arbeter, you're better off with beams. Cannons really need to be on VERY nimble ships that can turn in a hurry because of the very narrow arc of the cannons.

    Cannons are better suited to very small and fast escorts like the Defiant, or BoP if you want to run weapons. Bigger ships, stick to DBB,

    Could be that the current ISA cannon DPS record has been achieved on a slow turning Scimitar (5/3 weapons + 5 sci console slots to trigger plasma explosions).

    Still I agree with your statement as it is most likely true for anybody who not flies ISA fifty times a day knowing each and every angle to get shiny numbers in combat logs.

    I love using cannons on my pilot- and jhs-ship however on the Arbiter I always used a DBB setup OP.
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  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,225 Arc User
    edited November 2016
    ignore all these DPS lameos. burst damage is better than DPS anyday

    If the objective of the OP is to end up playing ISA with others all dishing out 75k+ each I doubt there is that much of a difference nowadays. In uncoordinated runs it’s hard to have anything left to shoot at with most team-members not able to unleash their full damage potential.

    I managed 187k DPS on a cannon build last week in a casual pug. In an elite premade I find even getting 100k tricky as the teams combined FAW usually clears most targets without pain before I can even put my nose in the right direction. My cannon ships have a turn-rate of 20 by the way.
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    felisean wrote: »
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  • goodscotchgoodscotch Member Posts: 1,680 Arc User
    nikeix wrote: »
    Cannon builds are a very, very different beast from beams. You can go narrow field of fire where you constantly have to fly the hell out of the ship to keep that beautiful storm of death on target (good for escorts and some sci boats), or you can go cannons/turrets and create extremely high proc-rate pressure builds (cruisers that never let up on the pounding they dish).

    You might post in the academy for a more technical discussion of the variants :).

    This! Well said. I just went through this exercise of switching from an Antiproton beam build to a Disruptor cannon build. In order to get the most out of a cannon build you have to pilot the ship. It's far more demanding. The results are good if you pilot well, but if you don't, which can happen from time to time, then the results are not as good as your beam build.
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  • antonine3258antonine3258 Member Posts: 2,391 Arc User
    goodscotch wrote: »
    nikeix wrote: »
    Cannon builds are a very, very different beast from beams. You can go narrow field of fire where you constantly have to fly the hell out of the ship to keep that beautiful storm of death on target (good for escorts and some sci boats), or you can go cannons/turrets and create extremely high proc-rate pressure builds (cruisers that never let up on the pounding they dish).

    You might post in the academy for a more technical discussion of the variants :).

    This! Well said. I just went through this exercise of switching from an Antiproton beam build to a Disruptor cannon build. In order to get the most out of a cannon build you have to pilot the ship. It's far more demanding. The results are good if you pilot well, but if you don't, which can happen from time to time, then the results are not as good as your beam build.

    The other trick with beam/cannon is the cannon abilities are at a higher tactical officer level than beam (Your basic fire at will/overload is an ensign ability - cannon: rapid fire and cannon: scatter volley both need a lieutenant slot to use the earliest version). That's less a problem for an arbiter, mind, but can be an issue on some science ships and a lot of the cruisers.
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  • echattyechatty Member Posts: 5,916 Arc User
    All of this is good advice for anyone looking to improve their build. Someone like me. I'm not looking for mega-DPS, but I'd like to improve it all the same.

    Curbstomping, to me, is boring. I like to survive AND kill, but not one-shot everything because I've sacrificed survivability for mega-DPS.
    Now a LTS and loving it.
    Just because you spend money on this game, it does not entitle you to be a jerk if things don't go your way.
    I have come to the conclusion that I have a memory like Etch-A-Sketch. I shake my head and forget everything. :D
  • oldschooldorkoldschooldork Member Posts: 426 Arc User
    stee1max wrote: »
    Everyone runs Temporal/Strategist to max out their DPS points, hence it would be logical to conclude this is the most appropriate choice. Torp boats enjoy their Command spec as primary. The rest of folks come to the same opinion by trial and error, and countless STF queues. It's up to you to decide whether you want to streamline your gaming experience and go full DPS, or you want to be completely useless experiment and toy around with it. Don't forget, by packing more sheer firepower you are helping out your teammates and shorten the time spent to do mandatory stuff in this game.

    Yeah I just love the "anyone who doesn't play the game the way I think they should is an idiot" posts.
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  • jaywest21jaywest21 Member Posts: 46 Arc User
    On my Arbiter I used to rock AP DHCs and turrets, and it worked OK because I had set that ship up to be pretty maneuverable for a battlecruiser. But then when I swapped those out for AP DBBs, AP omni beams, and a kinetic cutting beam, I saw a big improvement in overall DPS output. So I'd recommend DBBs, beam arrays, and omni beams on a cruiser. I put the rest of my AP beam arrays and omni beams on my tactical Odyssey, and moved all my cannons to my Mercury (tac pilot ship) and my Nandi.
  • jaywest21jaywest21 Member Posts: 46 Arc User
    edited November 2016
    @echatty: I'm no DPS monster by any stretch of the imagination and am always looking to improve too, but I totally agree; one-shotting everything would be pretty boring. Tho it does come in handy in certain situations, like if you're in a pug and being mobbed up on, and time is running out on an objective.

    What's really boring is being on a team where everyone else is able to pretty much one-shot everything, leaving me with very little to shoot at. By the time I get in range they've already annihilated everything. I'm like, "Come on guys, save a few for me!" lol
  • echattyechatty Member Posts: 5,916 Arc User
    Yeah Jay. Melting everything in one shot, whether it be me or someone else doing it, is very boring to watch and not really that impressive (to me). All that "Look at me! I can one-shot EVERYTHING!" Just isn't impressive.

    Like has been said, 30k will get you through anything in the game and I don't even do near that. And I still get through what I want to get through.
    Now a LTS and loving it.
    Just because you spend money on this game, it does not entitle you to be a jerk if things don't go your way.
    I have come to the conclusion that I have a memory like Etch-A-Sketch. I shake my head and forget everything. :D
  • jaywest21jaywest21 Member Posts: 46 Arc User
    I have no idea what kind of DPS I'm doing (never bothered parsing it). I just know it's not "all that." If I could at least get it up to, say, 30K, I'd be pretty satisfied with that. Because right now I doubt it's even 15K.
  • sovereign010sovereign010 Member Posts: 641 Arc User
    Been running dual beam banks (as my fore weapons, omnis on the rear) lately on my arbiter battle cruiser. Was thinking of maybe switching to cannons. Trying to up my dps, currently hitting around 35-40k. Running an engineering toon atm. Thoughts?

    The biggest question is whether you're running a Tac ship or not, for this reason:

    Cannon abilities require a higher BOFF rank than beam ones, Rapid Fire and Scatter Volley are one rank higher than Overload and Fire at Will. Thus, tac-heavy ships will get more out of DHCs than other types.
  • tempusmagustempusmagus Member Posts: 107 Arc User
    stee1max wrote: »
    Everyone runs Temporal/Strategist to max out their DPS points, hence it would be logical to conclude this is the most appropriate choice.

    Sorry, but this is nothing short of just letting others think for you. You're saying one thing is best for no reason other then the fact that other people use it so it must be good. Yes, that's a great combo, but there are other viable combos as well. If you think that going Intel/Pilot is going to make a huge difference over Intel/Strategist, then you're putting way too much focus on secondary specialization. I respectfully suggest you venture out and try some alterations instead of just going with what 'everyone else does.' One size does not fit all in this game, it's not as black and white as 'this is right, this is wrong.' If he likes Intel/Pilot then that's a perfectly acceptable option, I use it all the time.

    There are many people out there who just want a build without having to think about how to put one together. This is why there are streamers/youtubers who have collected other people's builds and give them out to others, so they don't have to put in any effort. That's ok, not everyone has time to put in the time to make a decent build.

    The thing about Temporal/Strategist, is that you have to actually know the mechanics and make them work well, to get the increases in dps. If you aren't putting the pieces together well, then it really don't matter and Intel/Pilot is fine because the difference between that and the other combinations isn't all that much. For your secondaries, Pilot is much more survivability focused than Strategist. For Strategist there are two ways you can go about things: 1)Aggro maintenance or 2)Aggro shunning.

    Aggro maintenance requires you to have Threatening Stance active and use Attrition Warfare 2 to reduce your cooldowns, eliminating the need for A2B or Reciprocity. You can either go full on Tank(most add FBP to gain dps) with Threat Amplifier consoles or dodging the Aggro with Nullifiers (probably still going to take a bit of Aggro). This method gives you some bonus healing and hull.

    Aggro shunning means you deactivate Threatening Stance and you get some dps bonuses, but no cooldown reduction.

    As for the Temporal Specialization, it requires much more finesse and that's probably going to be too much management for most people. This is a really nice specialization if you have some exotic DOT powers. The first part that was compared to Intel Spec, when Temp first came out was Entropic Rider/Atrophied Defenses. Your DOTs apply some damage resistance debuffs to your target and gain bonus DOT damage from Atrophied Defenses. Whether you have DOTs or not, Entropic Rider procs a DOT on your energy weapons that in turn procs Atrophied Defenses. Just this part is about the same as Intel Spec for bonus dps, so if you aren't managing things, both are similar. Temporal Crosswiring is where things start getting interesting. Certain exotic powers (there are some Engineering ones like Structural Integrity Collapse, Endothermic Inhibiting Beam and Eject Warp Plasma) will give you bonus Haste. If you manage these powers correctly, you can have a high uptime of 20%, or close to it, weapon Haste. The last part is where it just goes over the top, Continuity! If you manage the proc correctly on this, you can have your Go Down Fighting buff for an entire ISA and an 2-3 Attack Pattern Alphas for 2-3m ISA (for Tacs).

    I fully support your "Sorry, but this is nothing short of just letting others think for you." comment. This is why some of us use Temporal/Strategist. Don't just use it because we are, see why/how we are using it and make it work for you.
  • ffttfftt Member Posts: 715 Arc User
    edited November 2016
    nikeix wrote: »
    I shudder even asking, but if you're not using those what are you putting in your tac slots?
    jslyn wrote: »
    Surgical Strikes?

    Playing a multi-mission (Vesta) ship with one Lt. Tactical BOff. That's only two tac abilities available and I'm most comfortable with Tac Team I and High Yield II. If science ships had more weapon slots I'd maybe consider switching out HY with FAW and mostly beams (still probably end up with a turret in the rear though), but that's wishful thinking and possibly balance breaking.

  • narxes081206narxes081206 Member Posts: 84 Arc User
    Love the advice and debate going on here! For me, the fun is trying new things and seeing how they play out. Everyone has different views on what is the best, and I think that's great for the game. Having a variety of build options that are all viable makes the game more interesting in my opinion.
  • jaywest21jaywest21 Member Posts: 46 Arc User
    @narxes081206: No problem! Delighted to help. :) The important thing is to use what works for you while being open to suggestions and setups that might improve your overall build and performance. In my case when I switched from an AP cannon build to an AP beam build on my main ship (T6 fleet Arbiter), it was quite a substantial improvement.
  • narxes081206narxes081206 Member Posts: 84 Arc User
    jaywest21 wrote: »
    @narxes081206: No problem! Delighted to help. :) The important thing is to use what works for you while being open to suggestions and setups that might improve your overall build and performance. In my case when I switched from an AP cannon build to an AP beam build on my main ship (T6 fleet Arbiter), it was quite a substantial improvement.

    Went with beam banks on the front and implemented some of the suggestions given in this thread, and after my first run hit 50k dps! I've got another toon running straight beam arrays, looking forward to what he can do with some tweaking here and there!
  • e30erneste30ernest Member Posts: 1,794 Arc User
    stee1max wrote: »
    Everyone runs Temporal/Strategist to max out their DPS points, hence it would be logical to conclude this is the most appropriate choice.

    Sorry, but this is nothing short of just letting others think for you. You're saying one thing is best for no reason other then the fact that other people use it so it must be good. Yes, that's a great combo, but there are other viable combos as well. If you think that going Intel/Pilot is going to make a huge difference over Intel/Strategist, then you're putting way too much focus on secondary specialization. I respectfully suggest you venture out and try some alterations instead of just going with what 'everyone else does.' One size does not fit all in this game, it's not as black and white as 'this is right, this is wrong.' If he likes Intel/Pilot then that's a perfectly acceptable option, I use it all the time.

    There are many people out there who just want a build without having to think about how to put one together. This is why there are streamers/youtubers who have collected other people's builds and give them out to others, so they don't have to put in any effort. That's ok, not everyone has time to put in the time to make a decent build.

    The thing about Temporal/Strategist, is that you have to actually know the mechanics and make them work well, to get the increases in dps. If you aren't putting the pieces together well, then it really don't matter and Intel/Pilot is fine because the difference between that and the other combinations isn't all that much. For your secondaries, Pilot is much more survivability focused than Strategist. For Strategist there are two ways you can go about things: 1)Aggro maintenance or 2)Aggro shunning.

    Aggro maintenance requires you to have Threatening Stance active and use Attrition Warfare 2 to reduce your cooldowns, eliminating the need for A2B or Reciprocity. You can either go full on Tank(most add FBP to gain dps) with Threat Amplifier consoles or dodging the Aggro with Nullifiers (probably still going to take a bit of Aggro). This method gives you some bonus healing and hull.

    Aggro shunning means you deactivate Threatening Stance and you get some dps bonuses, but no cooldown reduction.

    As for the Temporal Specialization, it requires much more finesse and that's probably going to be too much management for most people. This is a really nice specialization if you have some exotic DOT powers. The first part that was compared to Intel Spec, when Temp first came out was Entropic Rider/Atrophied Defenses. Your DOTs apply some damage resistance debuffs to your target and gain bonus DOT damage from Atrophied Defenses. Whether you have DOTs or not, Entropic Rider procs a DOT on your energy weapons that in turn procs Atrophied Defenses. Just this part is about the same as Intel Spec for bonus dps, so if you aren't managing things, both are similar. Temporal Crosswiring is where things start getting interesting. Certain exotic powers (there are some Engineering ones like Structural Integrity Collapse, Endothermic Inhibiting Beam and Eject Warp Plasma) will give you bonus Haste. If you manage these powers correctly, you can have a high uptime of 20%, or close to it, weapon Haste. The last part is where it just goes over the top, Continuity! If you manage the proc correctly on this, you can have your Go Down Fighting buff for an entire ISA and an 2-3 Attack Pattern Alphas for 2-3m ISA (for Tacs).

    I fully support your "Sorry, but this is nothing short of just letting others think for you." comment. This is why some of us use Temporal/Strategist. Don't just use it because we are, see why/how we are using it and make it work for you.

    The last time I tried to explain that I was told it was "too complicated". :lol:
  • jaywest21jaywest21 Member Posts: 46 Arc User
    edited November 2016
    @narxes081206: (thumbs up) Right on. Looks like you're doing great there. :)
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,919 Arc User
    Went with beam banks on the front and implemented some of the suggestions given in this thread, and after my first run hit 50k dps! I've got another toon running straight beam arrays, looking forward to what he can do with some tweaking here and there!

    Sounds like you're well on your way. Props to you for experimenting and finding your own style instead of just copy/pasting someone elses build. Everyone has a different style and different preferences.. when you find what works for you and what's fun.. go with it. :)
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  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,225 Arc User
    jaywest21 wrote: »
    @narxes081206: No problem! Delighted to help. :) The important thing is to use what works for you while being open to suggestions and setups that might improve your overall build and performance. In my case when I switched from an AP cannon build to an AP beam build on my main ship (T6 fleet Arbiter), it was quite a substantial improvement.

    Went with beam banks on the front and implemented some of the suggestions given in this thread, and after my first run hit 50k dps! I've got another toon running straight beam arrays, looking forward to what he can do with some tweaking here and there!

    Congratulations on hitting 50k! :)

    With that kind of DPS there is no map in game where you wouldn’t be a good asset for the rest of your team.
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    felisean wrote: »
    teamwork to reach a goal is awesome and highly appreciated
  • theotherscotty#9105 theotherscotty Member Posts: 385 Arc User
    I'd like to get some better DPS going on my KT Connie. Currently running Mk 13 KT phasers, 4 purple Mk 14 phaser relays, and a couple Mk 14 lobi consoles (BIC & TC) and *still* struggling to kill things in advanced queues (even those little assimilated BoPs in The Cure Found Advanced). :(

    Any suggestions? Thanks in advance.
  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,225 Arc User
    edited November 2016
    I'd like to get some better DPS going on my KT Connie. Currently running Mk 13 KT phasers, 4 purple Mk 14 phaser relays, and a couple Mk 14 lobi consoles (BIC & TC) and *still* struggling to kill things in advanced queues (even those little assimilated BoPs in The Cure Found Advanced). :(

    Any suggestions? Thanks in advance.

    Sure thing bud! I also play the kelvin constitution on my AoY character. My build is still a working progress and I can’t wait for next upgrade wakened. In a casual ISA pug it parsed as 123k DPS yesterday (tac toon).

    Here is a link to the build: USS Rainbow Explorer

    It has most of the current DPS centric stuff incorporated. I just needed to make a few compromises in favor of areas like survivability and movement. Otherwise I’d be limited to play in elite premades too much instead of all those fun pugs. Inspired by the other thread here I’m also considering to use a second sci boff in the future to make an even more intense use of the new temporal spec and turn the whole thing into a haste monster. I should also have the M6 computer flying around somewhere.

    If you like make an STO academy link of your build as well we can see what we can do. I’m sure kelvin timeline phasers are fun to use and with the BIC as well as TC you already have two top of the line consoles you could slot for engineering.

    Post edited by peterconnorfirst on
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    felisean wrote: »
    teamwork to reach a goal is awesome and highly appreciated
  • tempusmagustempusmagus Member Posts: 107 Arc User
    e30ernest wrote: »
    stee1max wrote: »
    Everyone runs Temporal/Strategist to max out their DPS points, hence it would be logical to conclude this is the most appropriate choice.

    Sorry, but this is nothing short of just letting others think for you. You're saying one thing is best for no reason other then the fact that other people use it so it must be good. Yes, that's a great combo, but there are other viable combos as well. If you think that going Intel/Pilot is going to make a huge difference over Intel/Strategist, then you're putting way too much focus on secondary specialization. I respectfully suggest you venture out and try some alterations instead of just going with what 'everyone else does.' One size does not fit all in this game, it's not as black and white as 'this is right, this is wrong.' If he likes Intel/Pilot then that's a perfectly acceptable option, I use it all the time.

    There are ... make it work for you.

    The last time I tried to explain that I was told it was "too complicated". :lol:

    It is complicated. Most people think just slapping on the Temporal Spec is going to be a huge boost in dps and it isn't, unless you are exotic heavy. I would think that if you are looking for dps, just stick with Intel Spec until you are capable of 50k or more, then you should have a decent enough understanding of basic mechanic to make Temporal work.
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,919 Arc User
    Here is a link to the build: USS Rainbow Explorer

    @peterconnorfirst - Nice build.. I can easily see how that thing pulls some massive DPS.

    @narxes081206 - I went ahead and put my build together on STO Academy now that it seems to be working half way descent again. If you wanted to see it, here is the link.

    U.S.S. Warsaw
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  • e30erneste30ernest Member Posts: 1,794 Arc User
    e30ernest wrote: »
    stee1max wrote: »
    Everyone runs Temporal/Strategist to max out their DPS points, hence it would be logical to conclude this is the most appropriate choice.

    Sorry, but this is nothing short of just letting others think for you. You're saying one thing is best for no reason other then the fact that other people use it so it must be good. Yes, that's a great combo, but there are other viable combos as well. If you think that going Intel/Pilot is going to make a huge difference over Intel/Strategist, then you're putting way too much focus on secondary specialization. I respectfully suggest you venture out and try some alterations instead of just going with what 'everyone else does.' One size does not fit all in this game, it's not as black and white as 'this is right, this is wrong.' If he likes Intel/Pilot then that's a perfectly acceptable option, I use it all the time.

    There are ... make it work for you.

    The last time I tried to explain that I was told it was "too complicated". :lol:

    It is complicated. Most people think just slapping on the Temporal Spec is going to be a huge boost in dps and it isn't, unless you are exotic heavy. I would think that if you are looking for dps, just stick with Intel Spec until you are capable of 50k or more, then you should have a decent enough understanding of basic mechanic to make Temporal work.

    That is true. I'll agree to that. :smile:
  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,225 Arc User
    edited November 2016
    Here is a link to the build: USS Rainbow Explorer

    @peterconnorfirst - Nice build.. I can easily see how that thing pulls some massive DPS.

    @narxes081206 - I went ahead and put my build together on STO Academy now that it seems to be working half way descent again. If you wanted to see it, here is the link.

    U.S.S. Warsaw

    Wow nice sea, thx for sharing. :)

    I get the feeling you cut through all space maps like buttah. Oh, just checked by the way. We seem to have an upgrade-weekend starting in two days. Aiming for epic on the rest of your gear looks like a save bet as well.
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    felisean wrote: »
    teamwork to reach a goal is awesome and highly appreciated
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,919 Arc User
    Oh, just checked by the way. We seem to have an upgrade-weekend starting in two days. Aiming for epic on your chosen gear looks like a save bet as well.

    Nice!

    Been waiting for one of those for a while. Might as well get the Epic on my last 2 beams. Not going to bother going Gold on the Impulse Engines and Deflector.. it's good for being able to say you're 'all epic' but just doesn't seem worth it to me.

    I have a few alts that will get some love from the upgrade weekend. :smile:
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  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,225 Arc User
    Oh, just checked by the way. We seem to have an upgrade-weekend starting in two days. Aiming for epic on your chosen gear looks like a save bet as well.

    Nice!

    Been waiting for one of those for a while. Might as well get the Epic on my last 2 beams. Not going to bother going Gold on the Impulse Engines and Deflector.. it's good for being able to say you're 'all epic' but just doesn't seem worth it to me.

    I have a few alts that will get some love from the upgrade weekend. :smile:

    Rodger that on the deflector and engine. And yea, beams give quiet a good boost on epic. Think the core is not a bad call either as it turns yet more energy to the shields then I think.

    In any case I will keep my fingers crossed for your quality upgrades to be fast and painless. B)
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    Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
    felisean wrote: »
    teamwork to reach a goal is awesome and highly appreciated
  • theotherscotty#9105 theotherscotty Member Posts: 385 Arc User
    @peterconnorfirst: Cool, thanks a lot; that's pretty helpful. :)
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