Another thing to bear in mind is how many "elite" players you'll encounter who try to count key binds and macro keyboards among their "piloting skills".
This initial post by the OP is soo very confusing. He says it isn't about piloting, but what he describes as being the true nature is in fact a part of piloting. Is a pilot just moving the stick? Don't they also take-off, land, control flaps, heating, GPS, Navigation, etc?
As for actually moving the ship in space, I guarantee you that two pilots equally skilled at pushing buttons will still see a difference based on their ability to maneuver their ships in 3D space. To suggest otherwise is foolish at the least.
Pilot skill encompasses a great many things in this game. None of it is rocket science and no one will try and claim that it is. The 'best' Captains in this game are better at knowing exactly when to use powers, exactly when to trigger abilities, they watch their rotation and firing cycles and know how to position their ships for the maximum possible damage output.
The fact of the matter is though, that STO just really isn't a very hard game. Are the best pilots just super skilled? Not really, they just put the time in to learn how everything works and how to use it their advantage. To say that pilot skill has no part in it though is just crazy. There are players in this game that can equip a ship with Mark XII white gear and out DPS half the players in this game using ships that they have dumped a year into building. Skill does matter, it's not all about gear, but the skill isn't that hard to acquire. Achieving 'optimal' performance is a mix of skill, ship build, traits, and just generally knowing what to do and when to do it.
If the OP is just trying to say that the game isn't that hard, then I agree. If he's trying to say that anyone that puts Mark XIV Epic Gear on their ship will automatically be a great player, then he has no idea what he's talking about.
Are the best pilots just super skilled? Not really, they just put the time in to learn how everything works and how to use it their advantage.
And in the case of open pvp war zones, they put in the time to identify the weakest, least-developed opponents on the map, and continually seek them out. Because someone with hundreds of $$s invested in a toon with all specializations unlocked and all cheesy broken traits slotted stomping a freshly-promoted level 60 is a glorious victory.
It's not a myth. If you have two people with identical builds and one person does better against the other consistently then that person is the better pilot. Knowing what path to take and when to activate powers makes you a better, more experienced pilot. I know that I personally am not the best pilot. I have a solid build and good gear, but am never going to be a top dpser.
while I think you are right, I'd like to play the devil's advocate and say that luck>skill
Are the best pilots just super skilled? Not really, they just put the time in to learn how everything works and how to use it their advantage.
And in the case of open pvp war zones, they put in the time to identify the weakest, least-developed opponents on the map, and continually seek them out. Because someone with hundreds of $$s invested in a toon with all specializations unlocked and all cheesy broken traits slotted stomping a freshly-promoted level 60 is a glorious victory.
My comments are all directed at PVE.
Honestly, I didn't even think of PVP because I don't know anyone who ever plays it. Like most players, I won't touch PvP in this game.
Are the best pilots just super skilled? Not really, they just put the time in to learn how everything works and how to use it their advantage.
And in the case of open pvp war zones, they put in the time to identify the weakest, least-developed opponents on the map, and continually seek them out. Because someone with hundreds of $$s invested in a toon with all specializations unlocked and all cheesy broken traits slotted stomping a freshly-promoted level 60 is a glorious victory.
My comments are all directed at PVE.
Honestly, I didn't even think of PVP because I don't know anyone who ever plays it. Like most players, I won't touch PvP in this game.
Well, I spend a fair amount of time in Ker'rat, and there's always one or two in there acting like winning a lopsided fight against a half-dead opponent while they're swarmed with Borg is a mighty victory.
Are the best pilots just super skilled? Not really, they just put the time in to learn how everything works and how to use it their advantage.
And in the case of open pvp war zones, they put in the time to identify the weakest, least-developed opponents on the map, and continually seek them out. Because someone with hundreds of $$s invested in a toon with all specializations unlocked and all cheesy broken traits slotted stomping a freshly-promoted level 60 is a glorious victory.
My comments are all directed at PVE.
Honestly, I didn't even think of PVP because I don't know anyone who ever plays it. Like most players, I won't touch PvP in this game.
Well, I spend a fair amount of time in Ker'rat, and there's always one or two in there acting like winning a lopsided fight against a half-dead opponent while they're swarmed with Borg is a mighty victory.
Those would not be KDF players, would they?
Don't look silly... Don't call it the "Z-Store/Zen Store"...
I'm just looking forward to PC getting some of the automation/anti-button-mashing tech from the console UI, where I can give my bridge officers some standing orders of "when X, activate skill Y". Some near-optimal behavior in this game is full on robotic in it's simplicity, and handing that off to a written set of instructions will be wonderful from my perspective.
It's not a myth. If you have two people with identical builds and one person does better against the other consistently then that person is the better pilot. Knowing what path to take and when to activate powers makes you a better, more experienced pilot. I know that I personally am not the best pilot. I have a solid build and good gear, but am never going to be a top dpser.
Meh never say never practice makes perfect. how do you think the top dpsers got where they are?
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
First off, piloting means knowing your ship and abilities and when to use them to maximize your performance.
There are three types of Piloting, PvE mission, PvE DPS run and PvP.
The PvE DPS is knowing the mission (Infected Space Advance). Where to position oneself and when to use their abilities to maximize their DPS. The pilots that do this the best can get their DPS well over 100k. But some can only do this with a well design team. I do not consider this true test of piloting skills. I do know captains that can enter a PUG ISA and need no help breaking 100k. I do not do this as well as I would like. Today my current Star Cruiser Science T6 high is 52k.
Now PvE Missions you DPS does not get that high. But say that 100K in ISA in a mission is now only 60-80k DPS. You can still defeat NPC on Elite Difficulty a lot easier. Most STO players can't get their DPS over 10k, so Elite Difficulty is just to hard for them.
PvP is a different thing all together. I know PvP is consider broken. So it is mainly being done with friends and within fleets. One/One in my Fleet Guardian which at that time did high 30k - low 40k I would defeat Scimitar captains that have paid to play traits and consoles and do 75K easy. There is no preset place to be. Pets can be easily dealt with. Scimitar get a lot of their DPS from their pets. They also use Dual Beams banks limits their arc to 90'. If they fail to kill you with a Alpha strike they can be defeated easy. Scimitar are consider a 100k DPS ship but are not a very good ship for PvP.
Again piloting is the key. Knowing your ship and abilities and when to use them.
I won't enter the debate about the term "piloting" as such, I will talk about "game skills". The thing that makes a difference between two players with identical builds when one will continuously kick the other's behind. This does exist. Yes, you can learn it up to a certain degree (ability rotation as an example), but there is some things in it that are, let's call it "talent", abilities you have or haven't. Like reaction times. Like information processing. It's, as has been said, not rocket science, but it's still a skill set that people have in different amounts.
Which is news to some people, if you read the forums closely. Many of the "XYZ is OP!" or "STO is P2W" threads are full of complaints of how a certain piece of content cannot be beaten. If other players mention how it is easy stuff, they throw a fit, because if they cannot do it, there's two possibilities - equipment not up to the task or player not up to the task. And since the second is inconceivable, it MUST be the first. (Not all threads of this kind follow this pattern, but many do.)
It also needs to be said that "better player" doesn't really apply on the whole breadth of the game. Somebody may be better at ground, somebody better in space. A may be better than B with a Sci captain, while B may be better than A with a Tac captain. Some will rule the DPS chase and/or their "home set" of missions/PvEs, since they know them inside out, but will do worse if confronted with something for which they did not prepare (I remember discussions about the Iconian missions and PvEs, where they were "impossible to kill, even though I do X DPS on ISA", just because Iconians were using some abilities said players just couldn't counter with their one-trick pony build).
Oh, and building a good set up of hot keys and similar, so that you can "just smash space bar and win" is also a skill. Sure, the execution is not that impressive (the result may be, the actual execution usually isn't), but planning stuff and trying it out until it works smoothly is a skill which makes you get better results at this game, thus makes you a better player. Restraining yourself because you think some aspects are just exploits may make you better at what you do, but it doesn't make you a better player. It's just like running a race backwards and complaining about all the forward runners just making it too easy on themselves. As long as you don't prove that you can keep up with them if you were to run forward, I won't believe you are as good a player. Just being king in a self-defined discipline doesn't make you king of the game.
(Disclaimer: there are/were some things in this game I consider/considered exploits myself, so you can always hold these last sentences against me. I will happily argue. Disclaimer 2: I don't really have most of these skills, that's why I like to talk about them. Not dissimilar to a music critic)
My mother was an epohh and my father smelled of tulaberries
It's part of the "pilot" specialization tree. I think it unlocks after six points, so the earliest you could get it is level 56. It can be used on any ship, but you must have that specialization active and the ability slotted in your skill tray
It renders you immune to damage for the duration, and adds extra GTFO speed to some other speed-related abilities, so I definitely consider it worthwhile, and consider it standard on all my builds of any size. Combine it with the Impulse Capacitance Cell console for maximum laughs.
I would consider Pilot for my gameplay style a "must have", at least as a secondary. Rock'n'Roll really is a "Get out of Jail Free" card especially when confronted with some of the more nasty attacks (also a nice combo with evasive manoeuvres and maybe an attack pattern to let that last bit of damage leave you unscathed, since if you have R'n'R, you also have Attack Pattern Expertise). Apart from R'n'R, the first two tiers of Piloting offer aforementioned "Attack Pattern Expertise" (bonus hull for a limited period whenever you use any boff AP), loads of bonuses for parking and reversing in space, making piloting as in "Getting the enemy into your arc" much, much easier. a bit of extra damage resistance.
Yes, it's the coward's way out. But the coward does get out, the hero gets killed.
My mother was an epohh and my father smelled of tulaberries
I'd like to piggy back a related question regarding a pilot spec skill tree skill. I think its called "Rock 'n Roll", you get a buff when you send your ship into a roll. Is this skill only useful for pilot ships or anyone? Since everyone and their brother can put points in that skill tree and get those skills with any ship it doesnt make any sense to only confine those skills to a niche ship type that there is only a few of. Then that begs the question, how do i put my ship into a roll? Its an Odyssey.
Make sure your inertia is low, your turn rate is very high(Conductive RCS(Turn), rest of engi slots have RCS consoles). Slot Emergency Power to Engines, Aux2Bat, use Evasive Maneuvers, even Attack Pattern Omega if you want. However, making Pilot your primary spec, with all the points in it, does help a lot with that increased turn rate added on. Use the rep trait that gives even more turn rate. On occasion, use impulse for the rolling start. But yeah, stack up on turn rate, inertia low. You can do rolls without using Rock and Roll by doing so. And it takes a long time to figure out. The T6 Negh'var line(and its counterparts) are easier to do it with, since they have a base inertia of 25(hello Attack Pattern: Tokyo Drift!).
The Rock and Roll skill is great to have regardless, because it also gives damage immunity, and can be used as a quick disengage tool, or gap closer if you're stuck in combat, with EP2E and/or Evasive Maneuvers on cooldown. I always run Pilot as primary on my Negh'var cruisers, and my highest turnrate in the Negh'var was around 98-100+ degrees a second. Pilot spec also offers a second damage immunity proc slightly deeper down the road, as well as Shield Scraping, and Scratch the Paint(another situational damage immunity).
So many times someone posts that piloting skills matter or Player A is better pilot than Player B.
The truth is Player A just knows something Player B doesn't. Like when it's best to press ability X or how to best use ability Z.
That doesn't make them a better pilot someone who knows something you don't.
So dont feel bad your just as good as any other player.
Do a little research and if you build it the DPS will come.
Spoken like a true Spacebar Warrior.
[Oh, and I think the actual word you're looking for is "debunk" not "debunch"<--- Whatever the heck you think that means.]
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Eh, build -- both gear and ability/trait selection -- probably has a wider range of impact on final performance that moment to moment decision making, positional play, and cooldown management.
But really, the end result comes from the two working in tandem.
I have no shame in admitting that in terms of piloting in this game... I am very much the daddy longlegs of Star Trek Online (for those of an American persuasion... I mean the crane fly, I know your longlegs is a spider).
Sorry, but yes, piloting matters. In fact it matters a lot.
Reasons:-
1) Flanking
2) Shield faces and making sure you're firing through a downed shield.
3) Range impacts damage.
4) Staying out of firing arcs (for example the #
5) Keeping a target within optimal range, firing through it's downed shield, hitting it's flank and keeping Pedal to the Metal fully powered.
6) Ensuring you don't die from all the spheres draining your shields and spamming torps, all the while keeping them in range and firing through downed shields.
7) Keeping up with and racing your teammates.
8) Getting yourself in position quickly. Perhaps even quickly getting yourself in position to fix mistakes by your teammates.
Sure, it's pretty easy with an escort, but with a cruiser it can be a pain.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying STO requires skill (it's one of the most casual games I've ever played), I'm just saying that good piloting can really up your damage.
Ah that's one thing... but when I'm personally talking about piloting I'm usually referring to the race course mission or Delta Flight. I 'm pants at that because my ship just bumbles along and even when I'm on course for targets I tend to miss the odd one by a few seconds.
Also another reason why I steer clear of Risa. My control of floaters is abysmal.
Of course it doesn't help that I have a bad case of mirror movement in my hands which hampers dexterity.
Comments
As for actually moving the ship in space, I guarantee you that two pilots equally skilled at pushing buttons will still see a difference based on their ability to maneuver their ships in 3D space. To suggest otherwise is foolish at the least.
The fact of the matter is though, that STO just really isn't a very hard game. Are the best pilots just super skilled? Not really, they just put the time in to learn how everything works and how to use it their advantage. To say that pilot skill has no part in it though is just crazy. There are players in this game that can equip a ship with Mark XII white gear and out DPS half the players in this game using ships that they have dumped a year into building. Skill does matter, it's not all about gear, but the skill isn't that hard to acquire. Achieving 'optimal' performance is a mix of skill, ship build, traits, and just generally knowing what to do and when to do it.
If the OP is just trying to say that the game isn't that hard, then I agree. If he's trying to say that anyone that puts Mark XIV Epic Gear on their ship will automatically be a great player, then he has no idea what he's talking about.
And in the case of open pvp war zones, they put in the time to identify the weakest, least-developed opponents on the map, and continually seek them out. Because someone with hundreds of $$s invested in a toon with all specializations unlocked and all cheesy broken traits slotted stomping a freshly-promoted level 60 is a glorious victory.
while I think you are right, I'd like to play the devil's advocate and say that luck>skill
My comments are all directed at PVE.
Honestly, I didn't even think of PVP because I don't know anyone who ever plays it. Like most players, I won't touch PvP in this game.
Well, I spend a fair amount of time in Ker'rat, and there's always one or two in there acting like winning a lopsided fight against a half-dead opponent while they're swarmed with Borg is a mighty victory.
Those would not be KDF players, would they?
Dosen't matter... It's still fun.
Meh never say never practice makes perfect. how do you think the top dpsers got where they are?
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
There are three types of Piloting, PvE mission, PvE DPS run and PvP.
The PvE DPS is knowing the mission (Infected Space Advance). Where to position oneself and when to use their abilities to maximize their DPS. The pilots that do this the best can get their DPS well over 100k. But some can only do this with a well design team. I do not consider this true test of piloting skills. I do know captains that can enter a PUG ISA and need no help breaking 100k. I do not do this as well as I would like. Today my current Star Cruiser Science T6 high is 52k.
Now PvE Missions you DPS does not get that high. But say that 100K in ISA in a mission is now only 60-80k DPS. You can still defeat NPC on Elite Difficulty a lot easier. Most STO players can't get their DPS over 10k, so Elite Difficulty is just to hard for them.
PvP is a different thing all together. I know PvP is consider broken. So it is mainly being done with friends and within fleets. One/One in my Fleet Guardian which at that time did high 30k - low 40k I would defeat Scimitar captains that have paid to play traits and consoles and do 75K easy. There is no preset place to be. Pets can be easily dealt with. Scimitar get a lot of their DPS from their pets. They also use Dual Beams banks limits their arc to 90'. If they fail to kill you with a Alpha strike they can be defeated easy. Scimitar are consider a 100k DPS ship but are not a very good ship for PvP.
Again piloting is the key. Knowing your ship and abilities and when to use them.
My character Tsin'xing
Which is news to some people, if you read the forums closely. Many of the "XYZ is OP!" or "STO is P2W" threads are full of complaints of how a certain piece of content cannot be beaten. If other players mention how it is easy stuff, they throw a fit, because if they cannot do it, there's two possibilities - equipment not up to the task or player not up to the task. And since the second is inconceivable, it MUST be the first. (Not all threads of this kind follow this pattern, but many do.)
It also needs to be said that "better player" doesn't really apply on the whole breadth of the game. Somebody may be better at ground, somebody better in space. A may be better than B with a Sci captain, while B may be better than A with a Tac captain. Some will rule the DPS chase and/or their "home set" of missions/PvEs, since they know them inside out, but will do worse if confronted with something for which they did not prepare (I remember discussions about the Iconian missions and PvEs, where they were "impossible to kill, even though I do X DPS on ISA", just because Iconians were using some abilities said players just couldn't counter with their one-trick pony build).
Oh, and building a good set up of hot keys and similar, so that you can "just smash space bar and win" is also a skill. Sure, the execution is not that impressive (the result may be, the actual execution usually isn't), but planning stuff and trying it out until it works smoothly is a skill which makes you get better results at this game, thus makes you a better player. Restraining yourself because you think some aspects are just exploits may make you better at what you do, but it doesn't make you a better player. It's just like running a race backwards and complaining about all the forward runners just making it too easy on themselves. As long as you don't prove that you can keep up with them if you were to run forward, I won't believe you are as good a player. Just being king in a self-defined discipline doesn't make you king of the game.
(Disclaimer: there are/were some things in this game I consider/considered exploits myself, so you can always hold these last sentences against me. I will happily argue. Disclaimer 2: I don't really have most of these skills, that's why I like to talk about them. Not dissimilar to a music critic)
I would consider Pilot for my gameplay style a "must have", at least as a secondary. Rock'n'Roll really is a "Get out of Jail Free" card especially when confronted with some of the more nasty attacks (also a nice combo with evasive manoeuvres and maybe an attack pattern to let that last bit of damage leave you unscathed, since if you have R'n'R, you also have Attack Pattern Expertise). Apart from R'n'R, the first two tiers of Piloting offer aforementioned "Attack Pattern Expertise" (bonus hull for a limited period whenever you use any boff AP), loads of bonuses for parking and reversing in space, making piloting as in "Getting the enemy into your arc" much, much easier. a bit of extra damage resistance.
Yes, it's the coward's way out. But the coward does get out, the hero gets killed.
Words to live by, even if I'm not a Kenny Rogers fan.
It is so fast and maneuverable that unless you're actually just standing still you will need to be piloting the ship.
I'm using 23rd century weapons so that makes it a bit easier than if I was using cannons.
I'm so relieved. And remember kids, "In Soviet Russia, ship pilots you!"
Make sure your inertia is low, your turn rate is very high(Conductive RCS(Turn), rest of engi slots have RCS consoles). Slot Emergency Power to Engines, Aux2Bat, use Evasive Maneuvers, even Attack Pattern Omega if you want. However, making Pilot your primary spec, with all the points in it, does help a lot with that increased turn rate added on. Use the rep trait that gives even more turn rate. On occasion, use impulse for the rolling start. But yeah, stack up on turn rate, inertia low. You can do rolls without using Rock and Roll by doing so. And it takes a long time to figure out. The T6 Negh'var line(and its counterparts) are easier to do it with, since they have a base inertia of 25(hello Attack Pattern: Tokyo Drift!).
The Rock and Roll skill is great to have regardless, because it also gives damage immunity, and can be used as a quick disengage tool, or gap closer if you're stuck in combat, with EP2E and/or Evasive Maneuvers on cooldown. I always run Pilot as primary on my Negh'var cruisers, and my highest turnrate in the Negh'var was around 98-100+ degrees a second. Pilot spec also offers a second damage immunity proc slightly deeper down the road, as well as Shield Scraping, and Scratch the Paint(another situational damage immunity).
Spoken like a true Spacebar Warrior.
[Oh, and I think the actual word you're looking for is "debunk" not "debunch"<--- Whatever the heck you think that means.]
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
But really, the end result comes from the two working in tandem.
Reasons:-
1) Flanking
2) Shield faces and making sure you're firing through a downed shield.
3) Range impacts damage.
4) Staying out of firing arcs (for example the #
5) Keeping a target within optimal range, firing through it's downed shield, hitting it's flank and keeping Pedal to the Metal fully powered.
6) Ensuring you don't die from all the spheres draining your shields and spamming torps, all the while keeping them in range and firing through downed shields.
7) Keeping up with and racing your teammates.
8) Getting yourself in position quickly. Perhaps even quickly getting yourself in position to fix mistakes by your teammates.
Sure, it's pretty easy with an escort, but with a cruiser it can be a pain.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying STO requires skill (it's one of the most casual games I've ever played), I'm just saying that good piloting can really up your damage.
Daizen - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
Selia - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
Also another reason why I steer clear of Risa. My control of floaters is abysmal.
Of course it doesn't help that I have a bad case of mirror movement in my hands which hampers dexterity.