That might be difficult considering that you could be coming from any direction so I'm not sure how that would work unless it were possible to create a thin shelled spherically shaped nav point that then somehow connects to the planet in a single line. I doubt it's doable.
An invisible sphere the circumference of the star system is kind of what I was thinking. I don't know if anything like that would work. Just a thought.
Or they could just put the mission triggers back on the stars so you don't have to fly around looking for it.
Could we put an interact button inside of stars, that either removes collision detection on the player for 5 seconds or warps them forward a small distance to outside the star? We could label it 'solar ejection' or something.
Hey tacofangs, if you want an instance that happens almost every time (I say 'almost' because only Sith deal in absolutes...), returning to sector space after completing the 'Cutting the Cord' mission will get you stuck in the Brea System star.
@tacofangs There's a 100% reproducible stellar ensnarement in the second mission of the Future Proof arc. The Na'kuhl's home system
If you fly up to the smaller pre-events bright star, run the mission, and then return to sector space you'll be englobed within the larger 'mostly dead' star. Gets me pretty much every time .
Would it be possible to add the larger star's collision pattern to its smaller state?
But I might be able to put in some duct tape and bailing wire to reduce the chances of things happening. No guarantees.
Thanks for all of the replies guys. You don't need to report anymore, I think this can just happen anywhere. . . :::sad taco:::
If the issue is logging out or changing maps while "too close" to the geometry of the star, putting invisible collision in there, at whatever distance, wouldn't help. You'd just get stuck inside of the invisible collision instead of the star itself.
Do you have the option of making the collision detects work "one way" for the objects? I'm thinking in terms of being able to fly "out" without (ordinarily) being allowed to fly "into" stuff. That way, if you do wind up spawning inside of a star, you aren't trapped inside of it, but rather just fly out, because the geometry for it is "permeable" in one direction, and "impermiable" in the other.
If you could only make this change for the geometry of stars, that would be a useful outcome ... particularly since the geometry used for stars is relatively simple, as opposed to the geometry used for the Klingon Fleet Starbase (which would no doubt be trickier to reprogram).
This can actually happen anywhere and is very easy to duplicate, just fly around the top of the star while hugging it and you'll clip in, but won't be able to get back out...
Though because the game doesn't keep telemetry well when reloading from a map transfer I can see how it might reload in a small margin of error in the general area of the ship, thus, this "clipping" results from being within this margin of error when transferring back to sector space
That being said, a spawn border of sorts around the planet for people to spawn from when returning from transfer might solve it, it at least keeps people from accidentially spawning in a planet, they could probly still clip in, Who knows, just some helpful ideas lol
AGAIN GUYS - I don't need more examples of this. I know what's going on, and there isn't an easy solution to it. It's the same issue as with the ESD shuttlebay. It doesn't matter what system you're in. It can happen to any of them.
Pro Tip: Don't park right next to a star, and it's not likely to occur.
No, that's because the nav point is on the PLANET not the star. If you approach a system with the planet on the far side of the star, you'll try to fly through the star. If you approach from the side the planet is on, you'll stop just outside the system. I don't have a good way of improving that, unfortunately. And since there are no beacons in space, your ship doesn't know how to navigate around anything. You just fly into it and kind of slide around the collision until you're free.
Ok, thank you. I don't suppose there is a way to create an invisible nav point around the entire system, is there?
Uh. . . huh? A nav POINT, is just that. A single point that you fly towards. Even if we had a nav bubble, that would just stop you at the edge of the system, yes?
That might be difficult considering that you could be coming from any direction so I'm not sure how that would work unless it were possible to create a thin shelled spherically shaped nav point that then somehow connects to the planet in a single line. I doubt it's doable.
An invisible sphere the circumference of the star system is kind of what I was thinking. I don't know if anything like that would work. Just a thought.
Or they could just put the mission triggers back on the stars so you don't have to fly around looking for it.
It's true, they used to be on the stars. We moved them to planets because when you go on a mission, that mission isn't just the system, or the star, it's on or around a specific planet, and it allows us to put multiple locations in one system. See Andoria/Procyon V.
Could we put an interact button inside of stars, that either removes collision detection on the player for 5 seconds or warps them forward a small distance to outside the star? We could label it 'solar ejection' or something.
I have an idea of what I can do. No promises though.
It is possible to make the entire star a collision zone instead of a hollow sphere? This might allow us to spawn around the star rather than in it.
Not really. ALL game collision (in pretty much all 3d games) is you colliding with the mesh of an object. That collision is inherently 2 dimensional, and all 3d objects are completely hollow.
@tacofangs There's a 100% reproducible stellar ensnarement in the second mission of the Future Proof arc. The Na'kuhl's home system
If you fly up to the smaller pre-events bright star, run the mission, and then return to sector space you'll be englobed within the larger 'mostly dead' star. Gets me pretty much every time .
Would it be possible to add the larger star's collision pattern to its smaller state?
Again, this wouldn't work. The issue isn't the SIZE of the collision, the issue is that people are parked right next to it when they change maps. Having bigger collision just means people park next to that instead of the surface of the star. Then they get stuck inside of THAT. I don't have a way of forcing people away from something, that isn't using the same collision that is problematic at the moment.
That might be difficult considering that you could be coming from any direction so I'm not sure how that would work unless it were possible to create a thin shelled spherically shaped nav point that then somehow connects to the planet in a single line. I doubt it's doable.
An invisible sphere the circumference of the star system is kind of what I was thinking. I don't know if anything like that would work. Just a thought.
Or they could just put the mission triggers back on the stars so you don't have to fly around looking for it.
No, that's because the nav point is on the PLANET not the star. If you approach a system with the planet on the far side of the star, you'll try to fly through the star. If you approach from the side the planet is on, you'll stop just outside the system. I don't have a good way of improving that, unfortunately. And since there are no beacons in space, your ship doesn't know how to navigate around anything. You just fly into it and kind of slide around the collision until you're free.
I know for a fact that the nav point for New Romulus is definitely NOT the planet! The nav point for New Romulus is the midpoint between the twin stars in the system. Same deal for Vulcan. Andoria is perhaps the worst offender for having the nav point destination be a weird location well below the south pole of the planet in sector space.
Uh. . . huh? A nav POINT, is just that. A single point that you fly towards. Even if we had a nav bubble, that would just stop you at the edge of the system, yes?
From a usability standpoint, I'm thinking that a "nav ring" on the plane of the system's ecliptic "on the edge of the system" outside the orbit of any planets would ultimately be a superior system. That way the auto-nav function gets you CLOSE to where you want to go, and then when you get there, it's up to the Player to navigate the final few LY to reach the planet you're trying to get to.
Well, regarding autotravel, some of those seem to not point to the right location at all. But that's not really applicable AFAIK when you use the map to autotravel. that is apparently supposed to have you autotravel to the star.
AGAIN GUYS - I don't need more examples of this. I know what's going on, and there isn't an easy solution to it. It's the same issue as with the ESD shuttlebay. It doesn't matter what system you're in. It can happen to any of them.
If there's "no solution" what exactly are you asking us? I'm feeling a little handicapped here since I can't actually stare into the code...
Does the game have the ability to inflict a knockback that'll ignore walls? Because then you could bury a knock node in the center of stars that'll kick people out of them. Have it pulse once every 15 seconds based on the server clock instead of individual counters or something. Still adds a ton of server activity to the maps, but at least they become somewhat 'self-cleaning'.
((and I was trying to point out there's place in the game where the object changes size - that is a different englobement issue than most of what's being reported where a static object might eat someone ))
That might be difficult considering that you could be coming from any direction so I'm not sure how that would work unless it were possible to create a thin shelled spherically shaped nav point that then somehow connects to the planet in a single line. I doubt it's doable.
An invisible sphere the circumference of the star system is kind of what I was thinking. I don't know if anything like that would work. Just a thought.
Or they could just put the mission triggers back on the stars so you don't have to fly around looking for it.
It's true, they used to be on the stars. We moved them to planets because when you go on a mission, that mission isn't just the system, or the star, it's on or around a specific planet, and it allows us to put multiple locations in one system. See Andoria/Procyon V.
Well, yes. But almost all the mission text still says "go to X system." So you get there, and no mission start button. You have to fly around the star looking where the interact is. Before the sector revamp, the autopilot used to bring you straight to the interact.
Hello Taco,
Thank you for even looking at this issue.
Can you fix the issue by considering it a spawn point problem instead of a collision problem?
What I mean is (in 2d) and greatly simplified to not create a wall of text:
Each Star has an x,y location. There must be some radius 'r' that is the maximum size for all stars rendered in STO.
So when spawning a ship make sure the spawn point is outside of all star's spawn points plus/minus the radius range.
You could also give stars a 'drain' -- deliberately punch a hole in the bottom ships can go through. Yes, you'll get antics with players deliberately flying up into them, but people would always be able to get out without resorting to transwarp. Messaging the existence of the drain to new player might be a little awkward, but if a simple pop up triggered by extremely close proximity to the star's center point could announce "If trapped with in the star's surface, please exit via the bottom."
Though I suppose if you have "stellar core" pop-ups, that pop-up could just have a button to exit vie "solar ejection", as described above with a fixed teleport to the edge of the system.
Just to belatedly confirm that this seemingly can happen at almost any star. In addition to the places listed, off the top of my head I have had it happen at Na'kuhl, Vor and B'Lii (in Alpha Quadrant - I use it as a convenient waypoint to help work around the duty officer border issues).
On a related point, there is a (possibly superficially) similar issue with respect to the edge of sector space. I have experienced this several times when parked at the Delta Volanis Cluster (to do the Colonial Duty Officer mission chain).
I park at Delta Volanis, doff, and log out. Sometimes, when I log back in to that char, I apparently spawn a little too far to the west - and seemingly end up outside the invisible wall marking the edge of sector space. I can move north and south without problems, and can move slightly further to the west before being blocked. However, when I try to move right, in order to get back onto the map, my progress is blocked by an invisible wall.
To be fair, its not that hard to get out of - the solution is the same as for when you get stuck in a star - either switch instance, or transwarp somewhere. That untangles you from the geometry and lets you move normally again.
Pro Tip: Don't park right next to a star, and it's not likely to occur.
As a paying subscriber, comments like this do not sit well with me. I am not the one being paid to solve these kinds of problems, and "change your actions to work around the flaws in our product" is abysmal as a customer service policy.
I know possible solution, it's not a good solution but it might be a beer can and duct tape fix. Why not just remove the crash box and let us fly through the stars? I know "realism" or "immersion" but earth is 24000 AU away from the sun and the sun is .21LY in radius this might get a pass.
I know people have brought this up to me before, but I'm actually in a place where I can look into these things right now. So. . . If you know a place where, when you go back to Sector Space, you end up inside the collision of a Star, or other wonkiness like this, please tell me what Star is the issue below.
Note that this is not a general sector space thread for "I don't like how dark it is," or "why isn't X planet in SS?" This is specifically about a particular issue that I can probably fix.
Thanks.
The Vor system last night i was running freind or foe FE , and when i exited the vor system i found i was inside the vor star , had to change instances and wound up at sol, had to travel all the way to qo'nos at warp 5....not fun and very slow
Pro Tip: Don't park right next to a star, and it's not likely to occur.
I wouldn't if your auto-nav didn't run me face first into them. Meaning that I have to make the effort to back away from the object before hitting that dialog box to take me in. And that means that sometimes I have to circle around things once I've backed away because that too me too far.
As thing stand this is what you should have said: Pro Tip: Auto-Nav works as well as a 1-year old playing t-ball. Don't trust our coding and correct the problem yourself by backing away from where ever it took you and finish your approach on manual.
Ok guys, I'm putting in a bandaid that I think will help (if not solve) the situation.
Essentially it works like the ESD shuttlebay. You can still get stuck in a star, but once this goes out (it'll be a bit), if you fly around a little inside, you'll enter a warp volume that will boot you out to the middle of the quadrant map. Not the most graceful, but will hopefully save you some transwarping. . .
Uh. . . huh? A nav POINT, is just that. A single point that you fly towards. Even if we had a nav bubble, that would just stop you at the edge of the system, yes?
From a usability standpoint, I'm thinking that a "nav ring" on the plane of the system's ecliptic "on the edge of the system" outside the orbit of any planets would ultimately be a superior system. That way the auto-nav function gets you CLOSE to where you want to go, and then when you get there, it's up to the Player to navigate the final few LY to reach the planet you're trying to get to.
I thought that's how it worked now? Yes, the point is in the center of the system (it's what marks the system on the overhead map, so it has to be there), but there is a distance at which it should stop auto-navigating you. Due to the range in sizes of systems, that may be inside of some larger systems, or well outside some smaller ones.
AGAIN GUYS - I don't need more examples of this. I know what's going on, and there isn't an easy solution to it. It's the same issue as with the ESD shuttlebay. It doesn't matter what system you're in. It can happen to any of them.
If there's "no solution" what exactly are you asking us? I'm feeling a little handicapped here since I can't actually stare into the code...
Does the game have the ability to inflict a knockback that'll ignore walls? Because then you could bury a knock node in the center of stars that'll kick people out of them. Have it pulse once every 15 seconds based on the server clock instead of individual counters or something. Still adds a ton of server activity to the maps, but at least they become somewhat 'self-cleaning'.
((and I was trying to point out there's place in the game where the object changes size - that is a different englobement issue than most of what's being reported where a static object might eat someone ))
Originally, I was asking for locations where this issue occurs. People responded. I looked into it. I discovered what the actual problem was, and that knowing more places isn't useful.
Pro Tip: Don't park right next to a star, and it's not likely to occur.
As a paying subscriber, comments like this do not sit well with me. I am not the one being paid to solve these kinds of problems, and "change your actions to work around the flaws in our product" is abysmal as a customer service policy.
I'm not saying that is a final solution, I'm saying that is a way that a player can IMMEDIATELY mitigate the likelihood of encountering the issue. We OFTEN suggest workarounds during the meantime that we're working on an issue. This was just meant as a lighthearted version of that.
Thanks for looking at this, suggesting a work-around and developing a band-aid.
People who don't work on large applications don't realize that "just fix it" is not as easy as it sounds. Even when you can finally reproduce the behavior that doesn't mean you have a fix for it.
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Or they could just put the mission triggers back on the stars so you don't have to fly around looking for it.
"Last Engage! Magical Girl Origami-san" is in print! Now with three times more rainbows.
Support the "Armored Unicorn" vehicle initiative today!
Thanks for Harajuku. Now let's get a real "Magical Girl" costume!
If you fly up to the smaller pre-events bright star, run the mission, and then return to sector space you'll be englobed within the larger 'mostly dead' star. Gets me pretty much every time
Would it be possible to add the larger star's collision pattern to its smaller state?
Do you have the option of making the collision detects work "one way" for the objects? I'm thinking in terms of being able to fly "out" without (ordinarily) being allowed to fly "into" stuff. That way, if you do wind up spawning inside of a star, you aren't trapped inside of it, but rather just fly out, because the geometry for it is "permeable" in one direction, and "impermiable" in the other.
If you could only make this change for the geometry of stars, that would be a useful outcome ... particularly since the geometry used for stars is relatively simple, as opposed to the geometry used for the Klingon Fleet Starbase (which would no doubt be trickier to reprogram).
Protonic Kool-Aid Down The Drain Cruiser
Immortal BOff Skills combo for Ground
Kinbar VIII, Delta Quandrant.
Pansarka III, Delta Quandrant.
Though because the game doesn't keep telemetry well when reloading from a map transfer I can see how it might reload in a small margin of error in the general area of the ship, thus, this "clipping" results from being within this margin of error when transferring back to sector space
That being said, a spawn border of sorts around the planet for people to spawn from when returning from transfer might solve it, it at least keeps people from accidentially spawning in a planet, they could probly still clip in, Who knows, just some helpful ideas lol
Mwahahahahahahaha
"Last Engage! Magical Girl Origami-san" is in print! Now with three times more rainbows.
Support the "Armored Unicorn" vehicle initiative today!
Thanks for Harajuku. Now let's get a real "Magical Girl" costume!
Pro Tip: Don't park right next to a star, and it's not likely to occur.
Uh. . . huh? A nav POINT, is just that. A single point that you fly towards. Even if we had a nav bubble, that would just stop you at the edge of the system, yes?
It's true, they used to be on the stars. We moved them to planets because when you go on a mission, that mission isn't just the system, or the star, it's on or around a specific planet, and it allows us to put multiple locations in one system. See Andoria/Procyon V.
I have an idea of what I can do. No promises though.
Not really. ALL game collision (in pretty much all 3d games) is you colliding with the mesh of an object. That collision is inherently 2 dimensional, and all 3d objects are completely hollow.
Again, this wouldn't work. The issue isn't the SIZE of the collision, the issue is that people are parked right next to it when they change maps. Having bigger collision just means people park next to that instead of the surface of the star. Then they get stuck inside of THAT. I don't have a way of forcing people away from something, that isn't using the same collision that is problematic at the moment.
^
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Also !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I know for a fact that the nav point for New Romulus is definitely NOT the planet! The nav point for New Romulus is the midpoint between the twin stars in the system. Same deal for Vulcan. Andoria is perhaps the worst offender for having the nav point destination be a weird location well below the south pole of the planet in sector space.
From a usability standpoint, I'm thinking that a "nav ring" on the plane of the system's ecliptic "on the edge of the system" outside the orbit of any planets would ultimately be a superior system. That way the auto-nav function gets you CLOSE to where you want to go, and then when you get there, it's up to the Player to navigate the final few LY to reach the planet you're trying to get to.
Protonic Kool-Aid Down The Drain Cruiser
Immortal BOff Skills combo for Ground
My character Tsin'xing
If there's "no solution" what exactly are you asking us? I'm feeling a little handicapped here since I can't actually stare into the code...
Does the game have the ability to inflict a knockback that'll ignore walls? Because then you could bury a knock node in the center of stars that'll kick people out of them. Have it pulse once every 15 seconds based on the server clock instead of individual counters or something. Still adds a ton of server activity to the maps, but at least they become somewhat 'self-cleaning'.
((and I was trying to point out there's place in the game where the object changes size - that is a different englobement issue than most of what's being reported where a static object might eat someone
Well, yes. But almost all the mission text still says "go to X system." So you get there, and no mission start button. You have to fly around the star looking where the interact is. Before the sector revamp, the autopilot used to bring you straight to the interact.
Thank you for even looking at this issue.
Can you fix the issue by considering it a spawn point problem instead of a collision problem?
What I mean is (in 2d) and greatly simplified to not create a wall of text:
Each Star has an x,y location. There must be some radius 'r' that is the maximum size for all stars rendered in STO.
So when spawning a ship make sure the spawn point is outside of all star's spawn points plus/minus the radius range.
Though I suppose if you have "stellar core" pop-ups, that pop-up could just have a button to exit vie "solar ejection", as described above with a fixed teleport to the edge of the system.
On a related point, there is a (possibly superficially) similar issue with respect to the edge of sector space. I have experienced this several times when parked at the Delta Volanis Cluster (to do the Colonial Duty Officer mission chain).
I park at Delta Volanis, doff, and log out. Sometimes, when I log back in to that char, I apparently spawn a little too far to the west - and seemingly end up outside the invisible wall marking the edge of sector space. I can move north and south without problems, and can move slightly further to the west before being blocked. However, when I try to move right, in order to get back onto the map, my progress is blocked by an invisible wall.
To be fair, its not that hard to get out of - the solution is the same as for when you get stuck in a star - either switch instance, or transwarp somewhere. That untangles you from the geometry and lets you move normally again.
As a paying subscriber, comments like this do not sit well with me. I am not the one being paid to solve these kinds of problems, and "change your actions to work around the flaws in our product" is abysmal as a customer service policy.
The Vor system last night i was running freind or foe FE , and when i exited the vor system i found i was inside the vor star , had to change instances and wound up at sol, had to travel all the way to qo'nos at warp 5....not fun and very slow
I wouldn't if your auto-nav didn't run me face first into them. Meaning that I have to make the effort to back away from the object before hitting that dialog box to take me in. And that means that sometimes I have to circle around things once I've backed away because that too me too far.
As thing stand this is what you should have said:
Pro Tip: Auto-Nav works as well as a 1-year old playing t-ball. Don't trust our coding and correct the problem yourself by backing away from where ever it took you and finish your approach on manual.
Essentially it works like the ESD shuttlebay. You can still get stuck in a star, but once this goes out (it'll be a bit), if you fly around a little inside, you'll enter a warp volume that will boot you out to the middle of the quadrant map. Not the most graceful, but will hopefully save you some transwarping. . .
I thought that's how it worked now? Yes, the point is in the center of the system (it's what marks the system on the overhead map, so it has to be there), but there is a distance at which it should stop auto-navigating you. Due to the range in sizes of systems, that may be inside of some larger systems, or well outside some smaller ones.
Originally, I was asking for locations where this issue occurs. People responded. I looked into it. I discovered what the actual problem was, and that knowing more places isn't useful.
I'm not saying that is a final solution, I'm saying that is a way that a player can IMMEDIATELY mitigate the likelihood of encountering the issue. We OFTEN suggest workarounds during the meantime that we're working on an issue. This was just meant as a lighthearted version of that.
People who don't work on large applications don't realize that "just fix it" is not as easy as it sounds. Even when you can finally reproduce the behavior that doesn't mean you have a fix for it.