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Allow AoY to return to 23c ESD suggestions & solutions

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  • salazarrazesalazarraze Member Posts: 3,794 Arc User
    If anyone else has any suggestions that can be a fix for this issue please feel free to suggest them.
    This is basically a non-issue since all that 23rd century stuff is completely worthless at end game. However if this "must" be fixed to satisfy the idiosyncratic obsession that some people have with this utterly useless 23rd century junk, the best way to do so would be to make all of it purchasable from the Temporal Rewards NPC's.

    Some of the stuff is unique like the boff ground skills that can be slotted at lower positions and some that are only 23c like engie photon mortar ensign,etc. Also the only way to get TOS twin phaser beams that can be raised to [crtd]x4 are only able to be purchased in 23c ESD. There are a few other things but the point is not all of it is useless.
    All of which is mathematically outclassed by other skills/gear.
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  • chitowngrizz420chitowngrizz420 Member Posts: 266 Arc User
    edited August 2016
    If anyone else has any suggestions that can be a fix for this issue please feel free to suggest them.
    This is basically a non-issue since all that 23rd century stuff is completely worthless at end game. However if this "must" be fixed to satisfy the idiosyncratic obsession that some people have with this utterly useless 23rd century junk, the best way to do so would be to make all of it purchasable from the Temporal Rewards NPC's.

    Some of the stuff is unique like the boff ground skills that can be slotted at lower positions and some that are only 23c like engie photon mortar ensign,etc. Also the only way to get TOS twin phaser beams that can be raised to [crtd]x4 are only able to be purchased in 23c ESD. There are a few other things but the point is not all of it is useless.
    All of which is mathematically outclassed by other skills/gear.

    23c Photon mortar which is unique and doesnt exist any place else in STO and can be slotted in the ensign engie boff slot which is a much lower spot than the quantum mortar can be slotted in.
    23c Stasis beam which can slotted in the ensign sci boff slot is also a unique and can be slotted in a lower position than normal.
    Both of those unique skills allow more versatility and can come in handy on away teams for things like Dyson ground,etc.

    Also how are [Crtd]x4 or [Dmg]x4 beam arrays and beam banks outclassed? The TOS weapons would be fun to use on the new Temporal ships with the skins so they feel more 23c and are still end game worthy.

    Plus the fun of having the 23c sounds and visuals so if you don't care about them thats your opinion and only matters to you not all.
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  • fovrelfovrel Member Posts: 1,448 Arc User
    All 23rd century stuff should be added to the merchandise of regular vendors on ESD. We can have all kind of things in the game that do not make much sense, TOS outfits, shuttles, ships, 31th century ships. Time in this game has become a liferstyle.
  • ironguardian24ironguardian24 Member Posts: 13 Arc User
    There's always that Deep-Space K-13 that got pulled forwards in time in that mission... perhaps that could become the 23rd Century-only social zone, with all the appropriate vendors, etc for gear, BOFFS, and stuff. Sorta like New Romulus Command for AoY.
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  • chitowngrizz420chitowngrizz420 Member Posts: 266 Arc User
    There's always that Deep-Space K-13 that got pulled forwards in time in that mission... perhaps that could become the 23rd Century-only social zone, with all the appropriate vendors, etc for gear, BOFFS, and stuff. Sorta like New Romulus Command for AoY.

    Thats an interesting idea and it doesnt necessarily have to be for just for AoY.
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  • ironguardian24ironguardian24 Member Posts: 13 Arc User
    There's always that Deep-Space K-13 that got pulled forwards in time in that mission... perhaps that could become the 23rd Century-only social zone, with all the appropriate vendors, etc for gear, BOFFS, and stuff. Sorta like New Romulus Command for AoY.

    Thats an interesting idea and it doesnt necessarily have to be for just for AoY.

    But it would be nice for them to have their own exclusive social zone with their own gear, like the Romulans have.
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  • rahmkota19rahmkota19 Member Posts: 1,929 Arc User
    I'm gonna agree that all 23c items and powers and everything being sold on 23c ESD should be available to all TOS chars in the 25th century. Preferably by going back to 23c ESD (I liked that place), but if not, through a vendor or something in regular ESD.

    The account bank solution many people use is not viable, since it requires a Zen purchase or subscription. Neither of which would fit in well with the STO picture of a good F2P: you'd essentially be locking content behind a paywall. Ow, before somebody brings it up, earning Zen through dilithium isn't F2P, since that Zen always has been payed for by somebody.

    The Captain's Table? Absolutely not! I like the place, but I am very much against the notion of giving Lifetimers (such as myself) access to content that should be available for everybody equally. A dedicated lifetimer ship is okay, but gear that everybody at one point could access, not.


    So I completely support the OP in this case. Allow travel back to 23c ESD, or at least give us a vendor.
  • sheldonlcoopersheldonlcooper Member Posts: 4,042 Arc User
    I'm using all 23rd century weapons ground and space. The ground are very good. Space, eh, I don't care - because they're blue. I bought a ton of everything before leaving - enough to get to red raspberry. I have all the other neat cartoony icons like the deflector for collection purposes. You could make a new character and transfer through bank. Also I think something will happen with that starbase. I dream of a 23rd century hub but it may not go that far.
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  • skonnskonn Member Posts: 141 Arc User
    I'm still hoping that Starbase 13 will end up being the new fleet holding, with vendors that sell the 23rd c. kits and modules, space and ground gear :) Maybe even a new neat TOS costume... Kirk's 2-3 seasons green tunic anyone?
  • dalolorndalolorn Member Posts: 3,655 Arc User
    You mean the green tunic from the C-Store?

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  • salazarrazesalazarraze Member Posts: 3,794 Arc User
    edited August 2016
    23c Photon mortar which is unique and doesnt exist any place else in STO and can be slotted in the ensign engie boff slot which is a much lower spot than the quantum mortar can be slotted in.
    It may be unique but it's still a mortar and mortars, like most stationary things in this game, are pretty useless.
    23c Stasis beam which can slotted in the ensign sci boff slot is also a unique and can be slotted in a lower position than normal.
    Also useless as ground combat has become too easy to require things like "stasis beam."
    Also how are [Crtd]x4 or [Dmg]x4 beam arrays and beam banks outclassed?
    Because they don't have [Pen].
    When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
  • fluffymooffluffymoof Member Posts: 430 Arc User
    rahmkota19 wrote: »
    I'm gonna agree that all 23c items and powers and everything being sold on 23c ESD should be available to all TOS chars in the 25th century. Preferably by going back to 23c ESD (I liked that place), but if not, through a vendor or something in regular ESD.

    The account bank solution many people use is not viable, since it requires a Zen purchase or subscription. Neither of which would fit in well with the STO picture of a good F2P: you'd essentially be locking content behind a paywall. Ow, before somebody brings it up, earning Zen through dilithium isn't F2P, since that Zen always has been payed for by somebody.

    There are other ways to fundraise EC there. Account Bank is, simply, the easiest way to get credits over. You can also run more missions, vendor item drops, etc.

    For me, though, it's just simpler to use the Account Bank (bought through Dil Exchange Zen, a very tedious arrangement) to shuttle things around.
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  • chitowngrizz420chitowngrizz420 Member Posts: 266 Arc User
    23c Photon mortar which is unique and doesnt exist any place else in STO and can be slotted in the ensign engie boff slot which is a much lower spot than the quantum mortar can be slotted in.
    It may be unique but it's still a mortar and mortars, like most stationary things in this game, are pretty useless.
    23c Stasis beam which can slotted in the ensign sci boff slot is also a unique and can be slotted in a lower position than normal.
    Also useless as ground combat has become too easy to require things like "stasis beam."
    Also how are [Crtd]x4 or [Dmg]x4 beam arrays and beam banks outclassed?
    Because they don't have [Pen].

    The ground stuff is your play style opinion and doesnt speak for all.

    Sure the TOS weapons dont have pen but are still 2 of the 3 end game mods wanted by players. CrtDx4 instead of Crtdx3 pen is a small consolation if you want TOS weapons for a character.
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  • salazarrazesalazarraze Member Posts: 3,794 Arc User
    edited August 2016
    23c Photon mortar which is unique and doesnt exist any place else in STO and can be slotted in the ensign engie boff slot which is a much lower spot than the quantum mortar can be slotted in.
    It may be unique but it's still a mortar and mortars, like most stationary things in this game, are pretty useless.
    23c Stasis beam which can slotted in the ensign sci boff slot is also a unique and can be slotted in a lower position than normal.
    Also useless as ground combat has become too easy to require things like "stasis beam."
    Also how are [Crtd]x4 or [Dmg]x4 beam arrays and beam banks outclassed?
    Because they don't have [Pen].

    The ground stuff is your play style opinion and doesnt speak for all.

    Sure the TOS weapons dont have pen but are still 2 of the 3 end game mods wanted by players. CrtDx4 instead of Crtdx3 pen is a small consolation if you want TOS weapons for a character.
    It's not an opinion when I've blasted all the enemies within range of your mortars while you're still building them.

    EDIT: Anyhow, I do see them making it possible for you to buy your cosmetic fluff soon.
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  • stonewbiestonewbie Member Posts: 1,454 Arc User
    Not everybody is into building BiS ships with gear/skills/specs. I actually like building non-BiS ships with non-BiS weapons to see if i can get it to perform better than other people in better ships/gear. I do that in other games too...when people re-roll to a FOTM class i'll stick to a non-FOTM class. Not because i dont want whats best but because i find more challenge in being able to do something better than someone else in something worse than what they have.
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  • cptjhuntercptjhunter Member Posts: 2,288 Arc User
    My AOY doesn't want to go back to the 23rd Century. According to Daniels, "He died there."
  • chitowngrizz420chitowngrizz420 Member Posts: 266 Arc User
    nabreeki wrote: »
    The "it's just your play style" argument = I'm not very good at doing damage and I'm a liability to my team.

    I can solo just about que or battlezone area in sto that doesnt require team interactions on a map. Wanna pvp I wouldnt mind seeing your gameplay and what you can do? Or at least do an ISA so I can parse you.

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  • reafisreafis Member Posts: 147 Arc User
    It's a simple solution really , one that I was surprised that it wasn't there. I thought cryptic would handle travel between the present and 23c by giving time ships the ability to travel between them in sector space.

    It gets cryptic Money and you only need one time ship to do it. Simples. You also avoid ships flying around in 23c that don't fit.( I know the annorexic might need to be modified)

    Then just put an auto holofilter so townships appear 23c style.

    Job done
  • stonewbiestonewbie Member Posts: 1,454 Arc User
    nabreeki wrote: »
    The "it's just your play style" argument = I'm not very good at doing damage and I'm a liability to my team.

    This game has public and premade queues and has 3 difficulties (previously 2). I didn't exactly specify which difficulties i liked to play in now did I? nor what queues i liked to go into. Or have things changed in the past few months that i've been gone and BiS ships and gear are now required for normal mode.

    And I *have* done BiS ships/gear setups in the past but i found it to be boring. I actually had to find new ways to challenge myself because it was so easy. I don't believe in downgrading gear so i would do things like E-KV (back when it was just two difficulties) and take on one side by myself and try to kill it before the other side. Or E-CS and try take on one of the 3 cube groups and take that down all by myself and before the other sides get theirs.
  • alexraptorralexraptorr Member Posts: 1,192 Arc User
    23c Photon mortar which is unique and doesnt exist any place else in STO and can be slotted in the ensign engie boff slot which is a much lower spot than the quantum mortar can be slotted in.
    It may be unique but it's still a mortar and mortars, like most stationary things in this game, are pretty useless.
    23c Stasis beam which can slotted in the ensign sci boff slot is also a unique and can be slotted in a lower position than normal.
    Also useless as ground combat has become too easy to require things like "stasis beam."
    Also how are [Crtd]x4 or [Dmg]x4 beam arrays and beam banks outclassed?
    Because they don't have [Pen].

    Wow what complete and utter nonsense all around.

    Mortars and turrets can be pretty amazing and a hell of a lot of fun if used with the right kind of build, and especially when using the proper doffs. While "Pen" is good it is definitely not the end-all of the game and quite frankly not everyone is a DPS TRIBBLE.
    Stasis beam also has the potential to be quite useful if playing at higher difficulties.
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  • salazarrazesalazarraze Member Posts: 3,794 Arc User
    Mortars and turrets can be pretty amazing and a hell of a lot of fun if used with the right kind of build, and especially when using the proper doffs.
    I've used it all, doffs included and it's pretty worthless. If if gives you joy, by all means go ahead and run it. I don't mind carrying people.
    While "Pen" is good it is definitely not the end-all of the game and quite frankly not everyone is a DPS ****.
    It's simple math. [Pen] is better than an extra CrtD or Dmg mod in virtually every scenario.
    Stasis beam also has the potential to be quite useful if playing at higher difficulties.
    Boarding Party III also has the "potential" to be useful except that 999,999 times out of 1,000,000 it turns out to be useless.

    When you see "TRIBBLE" in my posts, it's because I manually typed "TRIBBLE" and censored myself.
  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 11,008 Arc User
    edited August 2016
    Regarding the mortar thing, @salazarraze is at least partly right. Playing the regular episodes the enemy mobs are usually down before your mortar shell even hits the ground (normal difficulty, standard issue gear on AoY characters). It only gets useful in the higher difficulties and even then it's questionable wether other abilities wouldn't help you overcome the enemy quicker.

    When you don't put much consideration in your builds and play the default difficulty (which I just assume many people do because they either have played the content so often already or they don't really realize there are other options to begin with) the default stuff lets you pretty much rush through the mobs already. If the mortars would just chuck a grenade it could still help, but the delay is just too long to seriously help against mobile targets.

    EDIT: I remember back in the days when I started playing in 2011 I had a engineer and would carefully build "bunkers" for every enemy mob I'd encounter. Forcefield dome, mortars, turrets, mines, shield gens. I'd put my boffy on hold and lure the mobs, jumping behind me covers and fight them this way. It was fun and effective but if you now think about doing this every single time for every mob you can see why I soon decided to not play on higher dfficulties and not use too much strategy any more. It's just taking too long for too little gain.​​
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  • alexraptorralexraptorr Member Posts: 1,192 Arc User
    Mortars are ineffective for Easy singleplayer content yes, but if your aiming at advanced or even elite difficulties they are far from worthless. It's entirely rooted in build and playstyles.
    Mortars truly shine when it comes time to dealing with Advanced/Elite bosses or bosses in Ground Battle Zones.
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  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    edited August 2016
    Mortars are ineffective for easy single player content?

    Easy single player content is easy and single player. That means you don't have to be effective. Mortar spam is fun. Fun > effective. I couldn't care less if the enemies all die before the shells land, got dead enemies either way. All boffs-enabled content is easy, so I'm not going to waste time thinking about effectiveness. My boffs have ground powers picked for coolness factor or left on default. If I was concerned about effectiveness, I'd run with 4 scis with all heals.

    And everything in this game is too easy for me to care about something as trivial as [Pen].
  • alexraptorralexraptorr Member Posts: 1,192 Arc User
    Oh I'm not disagreeing with that at all.
    In fact my Engineer has a neutronic mortar and a romulan flamethrower turret, with an away team that has three engineers each equipped with two phaser turrets and a quantum mortar. Doffed of course for even more fun. :)

    But mortars are definitely the goto endgame kit module for engineers. In fact the most top ranked Engineers for Nukara Transdimensional Elite rely significantly on mortars for their DPS.
    So salazarraze's claim that mortars are "worthless" simply just does not contain a shred of truth.
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  • marblesentinelmarblesentinel Member Posts: 21 Arc User
    Sorry for the necro post, but I am at my wit's end here. I came back to this game after a long hiatus to see what had changed. Found this awesome AoY content and how much the game in general improved over the years and jumped right in. It's only now after doing a lot of work on my 23c Captain including getting a Kelvin Connie only to realize that they have locked out access to 23c everything after I left. Most of this can be acquired through the exchange or with a lowbie 23c mule. But what I can't get and what is really making it hard to play this character is that 23c Boffs are BOUND TO CHARACTER!

    WTH Cryptic? Are you really expecting new or returning players to go look up guides for hours or annoy zone chat at ESD to learn that we need to bend over backwards to transfer Dilithium to our character and buy several 23c Boffs and 23c manuals before leaving? There was no prompt on the final mission warning me to go buy whatever I may want later now before leaving.

    I know from reading this post that I'm not alone on this one. We need a way to aquire 23c Boffs and manuals for our 23c captain after the AoY chapter is over. I don't care how you do it as long as it isn't stuck beyond BS pay walls or another damn gamble box. This content really got me to like this game again and I was considering splitting my time between this and SWTOR from now on, but this is likely to kill my interest entirely if it's not fixed soon. That means don't go for MONTHS not fixing this or saying nothing on the topic like it seems you've done in the past. I have other options for spending my money.
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  • capthaydencapthayden Member Posts: 57 Arc User
    I would like the ability to purchase 23c skills for all ranks. It is intensely frustrating to have some of my bridge officers using both 23rd and 24th century tricorders and breaks the immersion for me. And (I've said this before) the skill of Security Escort should beam in TOS redshirts and not their 25th century counterparts. This WAS supposed to be a mini-faction after all.
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