Old new Connie, In with the old and out with the... new?

anazonda · July 2016

Anyone remember this one?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXa0cfaTlfk

Several years ago, I was part of a modding team for Bridge Commander, and we had our eyes on this little thing. We had it almost finished back then and we got alot of attention for it.

Regardless... That Enterprise is actually radically different than the original connie... It looks like it with it's basic shape, but it's contours are radically different...

Much like the JJ-Prise...

So here is a general question: How come, that the general opinion towards (from what I can gather) the JJ-Enterprise is generally negative, but everyone back then seemed to like The one in the Youtube video?

rattler2 · July 2016

Because that incarnation "stays true" to the original design while modernizing it. Compared to the AR Connie, that particular design looks like a combination of NX and TOS Connie concepts. She's got the same look as the TOS Connie, while adding things like visible warp field grills.

anazonda · July 2016

rattler2 wrote: »

Because that incarnation "stays true" to the original design while modernizing it. Compared to the AR Connie, that particular design looks like a combination of NX and TOS Connie concepts. She's got the same look as the TOS Connie, while adding things like visible warp field grills.

So basically she spend time in the gym, putting on muzzle, but eating only salad, so losing weight in the process?

evilmark444 · July 2016

Probably because it wasn't made for a movie many people hail as the worst Trek ever simply because it is a fresh start in an alternate reality rather than a Prime Universe sequel.

If it wasn't for the JJ movie, more people would probably like the JJ-prise.

smokebailey · July 2016

evilmark444 wrote: »

Probably because it wasn't made for a movie many people hail as the worst Trek ever simply because it is a fresh start in an alternate reality rather than a Prime Universe sequel.

If it wasn't for the JJ movie, more people would probably like the JJ-prise.

No, I find the JJ Prise ugly overall, AND an alternate reality I personally find to be rubbish.

evilmark444 · July 2016

smokebailey wrote: »

evilmark444 wrote: »

Probably because it wasn't made for a movie many people hail as the worst Trek ever simply because it is a fresh start in an alternate reality rather than a Prime Universe sequel.

If it wasn't for the JJ movie, more people would probably like the JJ-prise.

No, I find the JJ Prise ugly overall, AND an alternate reality I personally find to be rubbish.

I didn't say everyone would like it, I said more would like it

lordrezeon · July 2016

Personally I don't care for that design either.

If I had to guess why it wasn't ripped apart the same way the JJ-prise was... I'd have to say it is because it kept the general proportions of the hulls and nacelles. The JJ-prises secondary hull and nacelle placement give the ship a dramatically different feel than the original. The entire sense of balance is off kilter compared to the original design it is supposed to be paying homage to.

rattler2 · July 2016

Not only that, the version of the Connie brought forward here pretty much strokes all the right "retro" feels while modernizing it. After the design of the NX in Enterprise, this version of the Connie would be a logical evolution. More so than the original Connie.

Basically she is just a modernized version of the 60s Connie while the AR Connie is a hot rod.

alexmakepeace · July 2016

Even if the reboot movies were awesome, I still wouldn't like the JJ-prise. The proportions are just wrong.

If the original Enterprise was this guy...
stock-photo-handsome-black-man-topless-looking-thoughtfully-at-the-camera-with-his-arms-folded-214878970.jpg

The Enterprise you posted would be this guy...

And the JJ-prise would be this guy.

hfmudd · July 2016

What others have said, especially Mr. Makepeace.

The JJ-prise's saucer, being a straight up copy from Probert's TMP refit, is fine... but everything behind and below it is just wrong. Badly proportioned, and then inflated beyond all reason just so that people who think that size/bigger numbers are everything can brag.

I was, and still am, a fan of the Koerner design.

farmallm · July 2016

That ship looks almost like the TOS with minor changes. But it don't overall radically change it.

JJ is very horrible. Its like they didn't know what to do with it. Basically a kit bash. It looks way out of proportion. Its not like we hate it cause its something new. We hate it for the story, the action, the cast, the dialog, etc.

ryan218 · July 2016

I do actually like the JJ'prise. I think it's got a much more 'modern' feel than the original and it's certainly a unique take on the design. It's sleeker and combines elements of the TOS and TMP Enterprises in a way that works, I think.

That being said, I'm not too keen on the nacelles. Aside from the 'thruster' ports at the back (which I can deal with, considering the Cage design) they do feel out of proportion to the rest of the ship - especially with how they get smaller as you move aft. From certain angles, the nacelles make the entire ship look out of balance.

I reckon that if you replaced the JJ'prise nacelles with the ones from the video and just played around with the scale a bit (and change the bussard collector's colour to blue), it would vastly improve the JJ design.

Unknown · July 2016

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artan42 · July 2016

IMO the nacelles on the KonsTitution are too big. The fronts are far too inflated, it's not something you really see on Starfleet ships, mostly the nacelles are equal at the front and back.

That's my only issue with the outside, the interior sets (well, Turbine Control and the Warp Core anyway) are wrong.

daveyny · July 2016

The new Enterprise-A at the end of Beyond, seems to borrow some semblance of Gabe's version.

They have put the neck back toward the front of the secondary hull anyway.

Unknown · July 2016

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farmallm · July 2016

Ok I will work on this one. Since I love the Tech of Trek. I will put the KU issues aside and just focus on the ship.

Size - The movie they try to show the ship big, like Galaxy size. With the windows and other parts this just throws it off in proportion. I would at least shrink it down to around the size of the Excelsior. That way it will work with the current windows and lighting effects.

Saucer - I would do the Federation style lighting. Like they always used. I would get rid of the turrets that pop out and go with the usual weapon set up for that era. Plus use the beams types that they always used.

Neck - I would push the front forward until its about in place like the TOS/ TMP Connie. The back of the neck I would keep the same. Just push it forward just a little.

Stardrive - I would make it more rounder more similar to the TOS / TMP Connie. Then I would extend the main part back. More like the TOS / TMP Connie. At least about 1/2 way back to the shuttle area. The Deflector I would keep what is on the ship currently.

Nacelle Plyons - I would push them forward some. So it would be a little more toward the center of the Stardrive. Then widen it out to make them not so close to each other. To keep the same V shape of the TOS / TMP Connie when looking from the front / rear.

Nacelles - I would totally redo them. I would keep the bussard collectors. The Nacelles would be lot smaller and go for the TOS design. So it wouldn't be so out of proportion. The Cooling grid would be more like the TOS Connie, but on the insides and outsides. And put the rear part on just like the TOS Connie. The Bussards will be red, and the Cooling grids will light up in blue.

Interior - The Bridge can stay. Main Engineering, I would rip that out, and install a correct more functional Warp Core like the TMP one. Shuttle Bay would be reworked to fit the ship better. And I would more likely add a some more windows in places to as well.

After all this, I think it would be impressive.

Unknown · July 2016

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artan42 · July 2016

farmallm wrote: »

Size - The movie they try to show the ship big, like Galaxy size. With the windows and other parts this just throws it off in proportion. I would at least shrink it down to around the size of the Excelsior. That way it will work with the current windows and lighting effects.

That's all perspective though. It's the interior sets (Turbine Control, Warp Core, a dome thing somewhere, and the infamous Shuttlebay), there's never a point in 09 or ID where the exterior is inflated (yet to see Beyond yet) only that it's doesn't match a couple of interior pieces. The Vengeance did get it's crashing scene where it was inflated far bigger than it should be (see, similar to this) but the Enterprise got this where it was massivly underscaled for dramatic purposes.

The reason people get confused is because the supplementary material shows incorrect size figures in a similar way to the old DS9 technical manual but instead of rejecting those people are just accepting the ship as Galaxy sized.
It's the same as how the interior sets of other ships (the TMP engineering, VOY shuttlebay, Defiant's shuttlebay, bottomless chasm in the Ent E etc.) are all ignored as not contradicting the size of their associated ships but Turbine Control is hard evidence for the incorrect figures for the KonsTitution's size.

Other than the size thing I agree with all of your changes (especially the nacelle bit) except the engineering hull, I like the one it's got. And the weapons bit. From the NX (with its turrets) to the Kelvin (with its short pulses), to this, to the TMP refit (also with pulses) it shows a better evaluation than a backwards step to fixed beam emitters (blue ones at that).

farmallm · July 2016

crashdragon wrote: »

Using the connie's TMP saucer look alike, you'd think they would of gone the extra mile with a similar look for the whole ship. Not exact, just a almost look alike.

I was trying to use both KU features and TOS since its supposed to be in that time period. Later it would have more TMP features.

farmallm · July 2016

artan42 wrote: »

The reason people get confused is because the supplementary material shows incorrect size figures in a similar way to the old DS9 technical manual but instead of rejecting those people are just accepting the ship as Galaxy sized.
It's the same as how the interior sets of other ships (the TMP engineering, VOY shuttlebay, Defiant's shuttlebay, bottomless chasm in the Ent E etc.) are all ignored as not contradicting the size of their associated ships but Turbine Control is hard evidence for the incorrect figures for the KonsTitution's size.

Other than the size thing I agree with all of your changes (especially the nacelle bit) except the engineering hull, I like the one it's got. And the weapons bit. From the NX (with its turrets) to the Kelvin (with its short pulses), to this, to the TMP refit (also with pulses) it shows a better evaluation than a backwards step to fixed beam emitters (blue ones at that).

When I used to do stories of Trek high school. I was using the set standard. My decks, size etc was all same. This way it would not contradict the other stories. Even my drawings was the same. Lot of times to keep them the same. I created a template to outline it. This way it would be to scale to other ships, etc.

I could go with the burst type weapons. I was going to add a couple more spots on the Stardrive to cover more areas under the ship. And to the sides, to make it more beefier for the KU.

ryan218 · July 2016

farmallm wrote: »

Nacelles - I would totally redo them. I would keep the bussard collectors. The Nacelles would be lot smaller and go for the TOS design. So it wouldn't be so out of proportion. The Cooling grid would be more like the TOS Connie, but on the insides and outsides. And put the rear part on just like the TOS Connie. The Bussards will be red, and the Cooling grids will light up in blue.

Bolded the part I find interesting. When you say 'just like the TOS Connie', I'm assuming you mean the main production model? I only ask because there is a precedent for the kind of 'thruster-end' we see in the JJ'prise. The original studio model used for 'The Cage' and 'Where No Man has Gone Before' also had what appeared to be thruster ports at the back of the nacelle. I can't remember what they were actually for, but it was a cluster of tiny nozzles shooting out the back of the nacelles. Given that the JJ'prise is brand new in Star Trek: 2009 and that the film takes place roughly 15-20 years before the Original Series, it makes sense that those ports might still have ended up in the ship rather than the globe-like caps seen in the later episodes.

erhardgrund · July 2016

In my oppinion, the Gabe Koerner Connie is a nice ship. I like its proportions and its beefiness. However i think its surfaces are a bit too busy. It doesnt realy fit the smoothness of the original. It overdoes the artdeco style the tmp ship had. Ad i think the deep blue lighting seems a bit out of place. That being said, it would have been a nice reboot ship.

The JJ-Prise on the other hand has different issues.
When i first saw it , i hated it. It ssemed unproportioned and too organic to me. The thing is that i like alot of the details. As i said before, i like the saucer. But i think the nacellesm the neck and the secondry hull are well done and detailed for what they are but the way they connect to each other seemed so off.
The nacelles are soo huge and so close together and the secondary hull is so thin. And the color palette seemed to cold, all blue and so on.
It just felt wrong.
However, over the last 7 years the design has grown on me quite a bit, today iI would even say i like it alot. It took some getting used to for me. The lighting in those movies and the perspective kind of skews the ship in a bad way.

In sto the ship looks amazing to me. Yes, the secondary hull could be a bit beefier and the nacelles a bit thinner and a bit shorter and I like my bussardcollectors red. But those things dont seem so apparent to me ingame.

The beyond 1701 with its swept back pylons and little nacelles doent look too out of place for me. The A looks much more beefier and TOS like to my eyes.

But in my oppinion nothing can beat the tmp ships for style. The Conny refit and the Excelsior are still my all time favorites.
That being said , i like the kelvin timeline ships more than any tng era ships. I loved TNG as a series but the ship design was never my style. I liked the akira and the ambassador, but the galaxy for example looked off to me and i never could get myself to like any tng nacelles.

amosov78 · July 2016

The new Enterprise-A also seems to have the original movie refit's bridge module.

farmallm · July 2016

ryan218 wrote: »

farmallm wrote: »

Nacelles - I would totally redo them. I would keep the bussard collectors. The Nacelles would be lot smaller and go for the TOS design. So it wouldn't be so out of proportion. The Cooling grid would be more like the TOS Connie, but on the insides and outsides. And put the rear part on just like the TOS Connie. The Bussards will be red, and the Cooling grids will light up in blue.

Bolded the part I find interesting. When you say 'just like the TOS Connie', I'm assuming you mean the main production model? I only ask because there is a precedent for the kind of 'thruster-end' we see in the JJ'prise. The original studio model used for 'The Cage' and 'Where No Man has Gone Before' also had what appeared to be thruster ports at the back of the nacelle. I can't remember what they were actually for, but it was a cluster of tiny nozzles shooting out the back of the nacelles. Given that the JJ'prise is brand new in Star Trek: 2009 and that the film takes place roughly 15-20 years before the Original Series, it makes sense that those ports might still have ended up in the ship rather than the globe-like caps seen in the later episodes.

I was debating on using the holes in the back or globe. Or in this case something little different? But has the end cap.

evilmark444 · July 2016

My only real gripe with the JJ-prise is the neck, I'd like to see the whole thing swapped out with the TMP neck. The JJ 1701-A looks to be an improvement though.

alexhurlbut · July 2016

amosov78 wrote: »

The new Enterprise-A also seems to have the original movie refit's bridge module.
https://www.instagram.com/p/BIL-7qFh0Hw/

Look like the construction scene show possibility of a saucer separation the way the neck is designed.

themetalstickman · July 2016

alexhurlbut wrote: »

amosov78 wrote: »

The new Enterprise-A also seems to have the original movie refit's bridge module.
https://www.instagram.com/p/BIL-7qFh0Hw/

Look like the construction scene show possibility of a saucer separation the way the neck is designed.

Well that would make sense because

the NCC-1701 had saucer separation. Not having it would kind of be a step backwards.

Old new Connie, In with the old and out with the... new?

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