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Why is Phantom so weak?

meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
What's wrong with my Fleet Phantom? (And possibly yours too). It's very fragile: more so than any other Escort I own. And, according to its stats, it really shouldn't be. It's always been like that. I wonder if there's really some sort of bug going on with it?!

Anyone else notice this too?
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Comments

  • gholendhorgholendhor Member Posts: 447 Arc User
    Yes initially it's Hull and Shields seem made from wet paper.However It's all about your set up,I don't have the Fleet version but I do have the regular one.With the right equipment,traits,upgrades,and duty officers slotted you can have a pretty tough ship.Also it shouldn't be utilized in the same way as regular escorts,Using the cloak,and employing surgical strike I find very effective.
  • sirmaydaysirmayday Member Posts: 535 Arc User
    My Delta Recruit flew a Phantom for a long time (basically two or three weeks after that event started), and I was left with the impression that it was generally sturdier than the Pilot Escort I'd used with my main (with the temporary invulnerability from maneuvers more than making up the difference). It feels about in-line with other T6 escorts.
  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    sirmayday wrote: »
    My Delta Recruit flew a Phantom for a long time (basically two or three weeks after that event started), and I was left with the impression that it was generally sturdier than the Pilot Escort I'd used with my main (with the temporary invulnerability from maneuvers more than making up the difference). It feels about in-line with other T6 escorts.

    Odd. As I also own the 3 Pilot ships. And, to me, they feel 10x sturdier than the Phantom.

    And yes, I know it shouldn't be flown like a regular Escort. I just don't get why this one is so weak. Maybe just mine is broken!? :P
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  • davefenestratordavefenestrator Member Posts: 10,665 Arc User
    Do you the have Battle Ready trait for the extra 7.5 DR + 7.5 defense? The Kobali console for +heals bonus and "oh frack!" emergency hitpoints? Do you have the pilot skill that gives temp hitpoints on attack patterns?
  • risian4risian4 Member Posts: 3,711 Arc User
    Hardly surprising that a phantom doesn't feel sturdy. I'm actually more surprised that it has any hull points at all ;)
  • risian4risian4 Member Posts: 3,711 Arc User
    Seriously though, I think it's a good thing that a very offensively orientated ship that has 5 forward weapon slots isn't very resilient.

    These types of escorts are already very powerful due to their basic lay outs. It's only logical that they're more fragile.

    I've found that putting a Na'kuhl space warfare specialist on active duty does help a bit with hull repair in my Kumari, a very similar ship. These doffs will get fixed soon so they'll only add hull repair in 20% of the cases when you activate a tactical/engineering/science/captain ability (depending on which one you have) but it should still be a nice source of extra hull repair.
  • fatman592fatman592 Member Posts: 1,207 Arc User
    I found it plays best as a beamscort. Reciprocity +AHOD; all the tac powers, OSS, EPtX with doffed Aux2Damp + Aux2SIF constantly firing. Put heals only on sci stations, use liberally, run away when needed. Pilot Spec primary also helps.

    I loved my Fleet Phantom, then I got the Icarus - which is far superior in every way.
  • dlmc85dlmc85 Member Posts: 145 Arc User
    risian4 wrote: »
    Seriously though, I think it's a good thing that a very offensively orientated ship that has 5 forward weapon slots isn't very resilient.

    These types of escorts are already very powerful due to their basic lay outs. It's only logical that they're more fragile.

    I've found that putting a Na'kuhl space warfare specialist on active duty does help a bit with hull repair in my Kumari, a very similar ship. These doffs will get fixed soon so they'll only add hull repair in 20% of the cases when you activate a tactical/engineering/science/captain ability (depending on which one you have) but it should still be a nice source of extra hull repair.

    Phantom has 4/3
  • risian4risian4 Member Posts: 3,711 Arc User
    dlmc85 wrote: »
    risian4 wrote: »
    Seriously though, I think it's a good thing that a very offensively orientated ship that has 5 forward weapon slots isn't very resilient.

    These types of escorts are already very powerful due to their basic lay outs. It's only logical that they're more fragile.

    I've found that putting a Na'kuhl space warfare specialist on active duty does help a bit with hull repair in my Kumari, a very similar ship. These doffs will get fixed soon so they'll only add hull repair in 20% of the cases when you activate a tactical/engineering/science/captain ability (depending on which one you have) but it should still be a nice source of extra hull repair.

    Phantom has 4/3

    You're right... I guess I switch ships too often. At least now I know why my Kumari feels even more squishy and why it blows up even more often without that doff.
  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    Do you the have Battle Ready trait for the extra 7.5 DR + 7.5 defense? The Kobali console for +heals bonus and "oh frack!" emergency hitpoints? Do you have the pilot skill that gives temp hitpoints on attack patterns?

    Yeah, I can make it very sturdy, if I want to. But the thing is, I kinda look at it from a ceterus paribus perspective: when fit like every other Escort I own, the Phantom, and *only* the Phantom, feels like wet paper. And there's nothing in its stats, near as I can tell, which should make it so weak.
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  • evilmark444evilmark444 Member Posts: 6,951 Arc User
    Maybe it looked in the mirror and is so ugly that it cracked it's own hull instead?
    Lifetime Subscriber since Beta
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  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,919 Arc User
    I haven't flown my Phantom in quite a while.. because i hate it. I'll have to take it out again and see how it does.

    I know it's weaker then my Icarus, but that's largely because well timed use of Pilot Maneuvers makes the Icarus drastically more durable. I'm not much of an Escort Captain though, the only other one I even own is the Fleet Patrol Escort Refit.

    Overall, I just really hated flying the Phantom, I usually take it out just long enough to unlock Reciprocity and pick up the Admiralty card before sending it to the scrap yard.
    Insert witty signature line here.
  • vengefuldjinnvengefuldjinn Member Posts: 1,521 Arc User
    fatman592 wrote: »
    I found it plays best as a beamscort. Reciprocity +AHOD; all the tac powers, OSS, EPtX with doffed Aux2Damp + Aux2SIF constantly firing. Put heals only on sci stations, use liberally, run away when needed. Pilot Spec primary also helps.

    I loved my Fleet Phantom, then I got the Icarus - which is far superior in every way.

    The Icarus, that's the science leaning pilot ship right?
    I'm curious, do you run the Icarus as a beamscort too? Just curious.

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  • fatman592fatman592 Member Posts: 1,207 Arc User
    The Icarus, that's the science leaning pilot ship right?
    I'm curious, do you run the Icarus as a beamscort too? Just curious.

    I did run it with beams, max throttle, EPtE + Aux2Damp. I called it the USS Starfox. The thing moves like nothing else I have.

    I've been running the Paradox for a while, what a whale lol. I'm looking forward to the 31c Temp ship pack once it goes on sale.
  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    fatman592 wrote: »
    I found it plays best as a beamscort. Reciprocity +AHOD; all the tac powers, OSS, EPtX with doffed Aux2Damp + Aux2SIF constantly firing. Put heals only on sci stations, use liberally, run away when needed. Pilot Spec primary also helps.

    I loved my Fleet Phantom, then I got the Icarus - which is far superior in every way.

    The Icarus, that's the science leaning pilot ship right?
    I'm curious, do you run the Icarus as a beamscort too? Just curious.

    I, for one, do. It's got a perfect dual-DRB thing going for itself, that kinda demands a forward-arc approach. At least in the way I play. :)
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  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,919 Arc User
    The Icarus definitely excels as a 'beamscort.' Even it's trait is based on constantly moving, I put all single beams on it and I just roll through large mobs firing indiscriminately. It's pretty fun actually. :)
    Insert witty signature line here.
  • jaguarskxjaguarskx Member Posts: 5,945 Arc User
    To me the Phantom was only "okay". I much prefer flying BoPs, the T6 Faeht Warbird and the T6 Mat'ha Raptor which basically ranges between raiders and a heavy escort. The T6 Faeht probably is closest to the Phantom when comparing turn rate and hull strength.
  • shurkhemolightshurkhemolight Member Posts: 399 Arc User
    edited July 2016
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    What's wrong with my Fleet Phantom? (And possibly yours too). It's very fragile: more so than any other Escort I own. And, according to its stats, it really shouldn't be. It's always been like that. I wonder if there's really some sort of bug going on with it?!

    Anyone else notice this too?

    Yea ive noticed, some other guy posted in another thread that all of his builds were popping way too easy.

    Not seeing that however in a mission today i literally went from 100% shields and hull to warp core explosion in the phantom.

    It's not that it happened, it's that i have no idea "how" it happened, i saw nothing whatsoever happen onscreen that should have caused it.

    Some combat engagements are getting a bit strange.

    Shield strength at times almost feels like playing dabo, bleedthrough is beyond old now, i have a sci who has literally died from bleedthrough in the badlands with 100% shields, this is total bs and should not be happening.

    Not to mention the enemy torp shield dmg as well as them hitting you 13 kms out after youve hit evasive, also total bs.

    Post edited by shurkhemolight on
  • shurkhemolightshurkhemolight Member Posts: 399 Arc User
    In addition i just had a unimatrix use the breen/hirogen system disable debuff on me.

    Either its just a graphics glitch or cryptic has got some really broken TRIBBLE going on lol.
  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    What's wrong with my Fleet Phantom? (And possibly yours too). It's very fragile: more so than any other Escort I own. And, according to its stats, it really shouldn't be. It's always been like that. I wonder if there's really some sort of bug going on with it?!

    Anyone else notice this too?

    Yea ive noticed, some other guy posted in another thread that all of his builds were popping way too easy.

    Not seeing that however in a mission today i literally went from 100% shields and hull to warp core explosion in the phantom.

    It's not that it happened, it's that i have no idea "how" it happened, i saw nothing whatsoever happen onscreen that should have caused it.


    Glad I'm not the only one. :)

    If it's stats were significantly weaker than any other Escort, I'd understand. But they aren't.
    3lsZz0w.jpg
  • shurkhemolightshurkhemolight Member Posts: 399 Arc User
    edited July 2016
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    What's wrong with my Fleet Phantom? (And possibly yours too). It's very fragile: more so than any other Escort I own. And, according to its stats, it really shouldn't be. It's always been like that. I wonder if there's really some sort of bug going on with it?!

    Anyone else notice this too?

    Yea ive noticed, some other guy posted in another thread that all of his builds were popping way too easy.

    Not seeing that however in a mission today i literally went from 100% shields and hull to warp core explosion in the phantom.

    It's not that it happened, it's that i have no idea "how" it happened, i saw nothing whatsoever happen onscreen that should have caused it.


    Glad I'm not the only one. :)

    If it's stats were significantly weaker than any other Escort, I'd understand. But they aren't.

    Im not sure how yours is built, mine had solid gear on it, i was however flying it with a Temporal Sci just to get the mastery trait, sure yours is probably built better than mine was.

    This guy talking about ships popping too easy now in general i dont know about, i have been away from my rommy tac for a couple wks now doing temporal stuff on new toons for the perks/fleet help.

    If i went back and played her a bit in her rommy tac pilot warbird, which is a dps nightmare id have a much better picture.

  • questeriusquesterius Member Posts: 8,491 Arc User
    I don't really get the premise from the OP, the Phantom is weak how?

    Perhaps compared to bulky cruisers or tanking science ships, but i rarely die in my ghost.
    Maybe the pilot ships are sturdier, but since i have not flown them i really cannot comment on that.
    This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,225 Arc User
    edited July 2016
    No, I did not notice OP.

    Qurr, a fleet-mate of mine and my favorite wing-gnome flies it with passion. The two of us often pug ISA and start doing right side on our own. Like my Jhss it’s fast and deadly and emits some scrious dps. I also know that the little worm made a + threat build on it and stacked a lot of defence in order to utilize the native trait. Of course one has to stay in motion. The energy refrequencer rep trait sees to the rest. We take the pressure just fine when on a 2-man.

    Phantom is not weak when set up right. Try not to hull tank (my jhss is a tiny bit forgiving there), rather speed tank and you should be fine on it.

    Edit: Qurr, if you read this: I hate you! Now… shall we troll another ISA? >:)
    Post edited by peterconnorfirst on
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  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    questerius wrote: »
    I don't really get the premise from the OP, the Phantom is weak how?

    The premiss is pretty simple: the Phantom is very weak compared to other Escorts (not that fitting a Phantom like a typical Escort is the best way to play one, but just for comparison). So weak, in fact, that I wonder whether perhaps it's bugged somehow.
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  • questeriusquesterius Member Posts: 8,491 Arc User
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    questerius wrote: »
    I don't really get the premise from the OP, the Phantom is weak how?

    The premiss is pretty simple: the Phantom is very weak compared to other Escorts (not that fitting a Phantom like a typical Escort is the best way to play one, but just for comparison). So weak, in fact, that I wonder whether perhaps it's bugged somehow.

    It's a valid question, but personally i have not experienced issues with Survivability on either my engineer, science or tactical characters.

    Even with the free sets and prior to the energy resequencer trait i had no problems. The intel ships do have 10% less hull than their counterparts, but that should not be an issue with survival.

    Only thing to keep in mind is that the latest batch of NPC does physical damage, a damage type which is not resisted by most common shields and consoles. One of the latest mission rewards is an engineering console with physical resist and if survival is an issue against the latest batch of NPC then i advise you to use that console.

    This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
  • shurkhemolightshurkhemolight Member Posts: 399 Arc User
    edited July 2016
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    questerius wrote: »
    I don't really get the premise from the OP, the Phantom is weak how?

    The premiss is pretty simple: the Phantom is very weak compared to other Escorts (not that fitting a Phantom like a typical Escort is the best way to play one, but just for comparison). So weak, in fact, that I wonder whether perhaps it's bugged somehow.

    I am curious how far your Phantom build is, specs, traits etc., i found on that rommy tac i mentioned and for that matter any full on scort oriented dps build that there is a hill you climb and a wall you push through in relation to how far the build has progressed.

    That rommy tac spent more time running than shooting at one point, she was simply too squishy, once she had all her gear slotted and upgraded and everything else in place it no longer mattered, because whats dead no longer hurts you.

    I have a feeling you hate running, thats ok, so do i.

    "If" i played her in elite she would die, and often, she is a crystal cannon, i do not because i do not want to listen to people who have it all down, and will demand i swap this for that etc, i play my way, and enjoy it.

    People say glass cannons no longer exist in sto, thats pure bs and hasn't changed since launch, builds are builds, change this for that you lose this for that, there are still only so many console slots on ships, one buffs this, the other something else.

    Ignore people who simply have "no" desire to try and help, focus on those who do, even if its someone you see as a strawman vendor like me lol. B)

    Strawman=no meaning at all, lol.

  • postinggumpostinggum Member Posts: 1,117 Arc User
    Found same issue as OP, I assume its my fault, but I never liked the ship enough to buy the fleet version. Having intel powers on the vorgon ship is tempting me to throw ec at fleet modules and give it a go.

    Sometimes ships that are very similar on paper provide very different subject experiences to pilot. I have enjoyed the nandi, t'varo, pilot ships and vorgon and really not liked the phantom at all, I'm not sure if it should objectively be like that. Had similar experiences with cruisers and dreads.
  • questeriusquesterius Member Posts: 8,491 Arc User
    Gear is less an issue on the phantom, but i suspect that the Survivability issues are due to skill point distribution.
    I suspect that those who have problems are (too) heavily invested in tactical skills and have neglected necessary science and engineering.

    That skill point distribution can be pulled off with bulkier cruisers and science ships, perhaps even with the sturdier pilot ships and their fancy abilities. Not with a phantom however.

    The phantom can alpha, debuff and hit like a truck but it does not have the hull to tank without at least a basic investment in engineering and/or science.

    For the record, the old http://sto.gamepedia.com/Omega_Force_(Space) works like a charm with the phantom and yet it is not a tank set.
    This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
  • mmps1mmps1 Member Posts: 381 Arc User
    I've not found the phantom to be less durable than other ships of its class. It's a rather nice Intel ship imo.
    "Mr talks down to the peasants."
  • shurkhemolightshurkhemolight Member Posts: 399 Arc User
    edited July 2016
    questerius wrote: »
    Gear is less an issue on the phantom, but i suspect that the Survivability issues are due to skill point distribution.
    I suspect that those who have problems are (too) heavily invested in tactical skills and have neglected necessary science and engineering.

    That skill point distribution can be pulled off with bulkier cruisers and science ships, perhaps even with the sturdier pilot ships and their fancy abilities. Not with a phantom however.

    The phantom can alpha, debuff and hit like a truck but it does not have the hull to tank without at least a basic investment in engineering and/or science.

    For the record, the old http://sto.gamepedia.com/Omega_Force_(Space) works like a charm with the phantom and yet it is not a tank set.

    Just my opinion but people who put the words escort and tank together are dreaming, this isn't aimed at you.

    I have heard this before, any escort slotting any gear or boff abilities to "tank" is slowly becoming a dps wimp every time that option is chosen.

    I am not saying no heals etc. should be used.

    I am saying there is "no such thing" as an escort tank, never has been, anyone saying so is just saying so.

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