Gear is less an issue on the phantom, but i suspect that the Survivability issues are due to skill point distribution.
I suspect that those who have problems are (too) heavily invested in tactical skills and have neglected necessary science and engineering.
That skill point distribution can be pulled off with bulkier cruisers and science ships, perhaps even with the sturdier pilot ships and their fancy abilities. Not with a phantom however.
The phantom can alpha, debuff and hit like a truck but it does not have the hull to tank without at least a basic investment in engineering and/or science.
Just my opinion but people who put the words escort and tank together are dreaming, this isn't aimed at you.
I have heard this before, any escort slotting any gear or boff abilities to "tank" is slowly becoming a dps wimp every time that option is chosen.
I am not saying no heals etc. should be used.
I am saying there is "no such thing" as an escort tank, never has been, anyone saying so is just saying so.
I take it that you are not familiar with speed tanking?
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
Gear is less an issue on the phantom, but i suspect that the Survivability issues are due to skill point distribution.
I suspect that those who have problems are (too) heavily invested in tactical skills and have neglected necessary science and engineering.
That skill point distribution can be pulled off with bulkier cruisers and science ships, perhaps even with the sturdier pilot ships and their fancy abilities. Not with a phantom however.
The phantom can alpha, debuff and hit like a truck but it does not have the hull to tank without at least a basic investment in engineering and/or science.
Just my opinion but people who put the words escort and tank together are dreaming, this isn't aimed at you.
I have heard this before, any escort slotting any gear or boff abilities to "tank" is slowly becoming a dps wimp every time that option is chosen.
I am not saying no heals etc. should be used.
I am saying there is "no such thing" as an escort tank, never has been, anyone saying so is just saying so.
I take it that you are not familiar with speed tanking?
Speed tanking?, yea, shoot n scoot, hit and run, because if you dont hit "and" run your going to die, as opposed to the engineer cruiser tanker who just "tanks", their calling it speed tanking now?
Im 6yrs familiar with escorts at large and in general, ive done more of them than any other build.
I know it's probably my 320ish posts to your 5k+, don't let that foolya, im Mr. Tac Escort DPS freak.
Escorts do not tank, people made it up, hitting and running, or exploding if you dont, isn't tanking.
Not running, and tanking until you blow up, or win, thats tanking.
Gear is less an issue on the phantom, but i suspect that the Survivability issues are due to skill point distribution.
I suspect that those who have problems are (too) heavily invested in tactical skills and have neglected necessary science and engineering.
That skill point distribution can be pulled off with bulkier cruisers and science ships, perhaps even with the sturdier pilot ships and their fancy abilities. Not with a phantom however.
The phantom can alpha, debuff and hit like a truck but it does not have the hull to tank without at least a basic investment in engineering and/or science.
Just my opinion but people who put the words escort and tank together are dreaming, this isn't aimed at you.
I have heard this before, any escort slotting any gear or boff abilities to "tank" is slowly becoming a dps wimp every time that option is chosen.
I am not saying no heals etc. should be used.
I am saying there is "no such thing" as an escort tank, never has been, anyone saying so is just saying so.
I take it that you are not familiar with speed tanking?
Speed tanking?, yea, shoot n scoot, hit and run, because if you dont hit "and" run your going to die, as opposed to the engineer cruiser tanker who just "tanks", their calling it speed tanking now?
Im 6yrs familiar with escorts at large and in general, ive done more of them than any other build.
I know it's probably my 320ish posts to your 5k+, don't let that foolya, im Mr. Tac Escort DPS freak.
Escorts do not tank, people made it up, hitting and running, or exploding if you dont, isn't tanking.
Not running, and tanking until you blow up, or win, thats tanking.
Depending how high your defense value is one only need a beam array setup in order not to have to run when grabbing and holding aggro while you shoot stuff on an escort. Think it works well.
Most high DPS builds on everybody’s favorite scimitars (granted not an escort but still somewhat fragile) even thrive on direct aggro management to utilize feedback pulse with the improved trait.
Times have changed a great deal over the past half-decade in this game. There was a time where Borg-Gates where considered to be un-tankable. Those times are long gone even for escorts set up properly. Evade the damage or take it with them, both works.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
Gear is less an issue on the phantom, but i suspect that the Survivability issues are due to skill point distribution.
I suspect that those who have problems are (too) heavily invested in tactical skills and have neglected necessary science and engineering.
That skill point distribution can be pulled off with bulkier cruisers and science ships, perhaps even with the sturdier pilot ships and their fancy abilities. Not with a phantom however.
The phantom can alpha, debuff and hit like a truck but it does not have the hull to tank without at least a basic investment in engineering and/or science.
Just my opinion but people who put the words escort and tank together are dreaming, this isn't aimed at you.
I have heard this before, any escort slotting any gear or boff abilities to "tank" is slowly becoming a dps wimp every time that option is chosen.
I am not saying no heals etc. should be used.
I am saying there is "no such thing" as an escort tank, never has been, anyone saying so is just saying so.
I take it that you are not familiar with speed tanking?
Speed tanking?, yea, shoot n scoot, hit and run, because if you dont hit "and" run your going to die, as opposed to the engineer cruiser tanker who just "tanks", their calling it speed tanking now?
Im 6yrs familiar with escorts at large and in general, ive done more of them than any other build.
I know it's probably my 320ish posts to your 5k+, don't let that foolya, im Mr. Tac Escort DPS freak.
Escorts do not tank, people made it up, hitting and running, or exploding if you dont, isn't tanking.
Not running, and tanking until you blow up, or win, thats tanking.
Depending how high your defense value is one only need a beam array setup in order not to have to run when grabbing and holding aggro while you shoot stuff on an escort. Think it works well.
Most high DPS builds on everybody’s favorite scimitars (granted not an escort but still somewhat fragile) even thrive on direct aggro management to utilize feedback pulse with the improved trait.
Times have changed a great deal over the past half-decade in this game. There was a time where Borg-Gates where considered to be un-tankable. Those times are long gone even for escorts set up properly. Evade the damage or take it with them, both works.
Ive tinkered with those builds, between work and my legendary lack of patience i just went "meh" and piled on the dps.
I dont do elite anything anymore, so that arena i cant comment on, i do my best to build my escorts so theres just nothing left to tank but debris.
On the subject of the Phantom, i was asking mem the questions about her build progress because ive actually never seriously built a Phantom, i bought the ship for reciprocity, then realized i wanted it for my rommy tac and she couldn't commision the sob anyway lol.
I wound up grinding the ECs for her to get it.
Ive dabbled with it with a vulcan tac temporal toon, but well "dabbled".
My pashion in scorts these days is that rommy with her tac pilot warbird.
I found it plays best as a beamscort. Reciprocity +AHOD; all the tac powers, OSS, EPtX with doffed Aux2Damp + Aux2SIF constantly firing. Put heals only on sci stations, use liberally, run away when needed. Pilot Spec primary also helps.
I loved my Fleet Phantom, then I got the Icarus - which is far superior in every way.
The Icarus, that's the science leaning pilot ship right?
I'm curious, do you run the Icarus as a beamscort too? Just curious.
I, for one, do. It's got a perfect dual-DRB thing going for itself, that kinda demands a forward-arc approach. At least in the way I play.
Thanks for the feedback folks! I bought that variant myself and was thinking about going to town with it : ) Pew pew baby !
Escorts do not tank, people made it up, hitting and running, or exploding if you dont, isn't tanking.
Not running, and tanking until you blow up, or win, thats tanking.
I'd say speed tanking is not so much about 'hit and run' tactics, as it's about mitigating damage to yourself, using your speed (= high Defense value). The Phantom was made for that purpose, actually, as its entire concept is built around the wickedly awesome Reciprocity Trait. Zipping around, at high velocity and high Defense, just using regular beams (not forward-arc Escort tactics), is how you 'officially' play the Phantom, letting Reciprocity kick in max.
Gear is less an issue on the phantom, but i suspect that the Survivability issues are due to skill point distribution. I suspect that those who have problems are (too) heavily invested in tactical skills and have neglected necessary science and engineering.
Like I said, I'm working from a ceteris paribus condition here (aka, using a 'fixed' Escort build, and only changing the ship). While I can survive perfectly in other Escorts, the same setup used on a Phantom shows the latter to be significantly weaker. You can lose 75% hull in one blow, on a Phantom; that never occurs on any of my other Escorts. One of my fave Escorts (not counting the Pilot ships and their built-in immunity) is the T6 Fleet Defiant, for instance. It feels 10x sturdier than the Phantom somehow. Don't ask me why, it just does.
Only thing to keep in mind is that the latest batch of NPC does physical damage, a damage type which is not resisted by most common shields and consoles. One of the latest mission rewards is an engineering console with physical resist and if survival is an issue against the latest batch of NPC then i advise you to use that console.
Hehe. I think I have that Trellium console. Didn't think it would actually really protect you from the 'shimmying' in the Expanse. LOL. I should try it out, one day soon.
The ship for which i am currently struggling to get the setup right is the temporal raider.
Purchased the 31c pack. From the 3 ships, the raider is for me the most difficult to master.
Have yet to play around with a lot of different boff layouts. I get the ship to survive and to spike, but it feels i am barely scratching the surface for its potential.
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
The ship for which i am currently struggling to get the setup right is the temporal raider.
Purchased the 31c pack. From the 3 ships, the raider is for me the most difficult to master.
Have yet to play around with a lot of different boff layouts. I get the ship to survive and to spike, but it feels i am barely scratching the surface for its potential.
I have the ship; miss the Pilot seat (for an extra Attack Pattern Lambda). If you ever figure out how to fit it properly, be sure to let us know.
Escorts do not tank, people made it up, hitting and running, or exploding if you dont, isn't tanking.
Not running, and tanking until you blow up, or win, thats tanking.
I'd say speed tanking is not so much about 'hit and run' tactics, as it's about mitigating damage to yourself, using your speed (= high Defense value). The Phantom was made for that purpose, actually, as its entire concept is built around the wickedly awesome Reciprocity Trait. Zipping around, at high velocity and high Defense, just using regular beams (not forward-arc Escort tactics), is how you 'officially' play the Phantom, letting Reciprocity kick in max.
Gear is less an issue on the phantom, but i suspect that the Survivability issues are due to skill point distribution. I suspect that those who have problems are (too) heavily invested in tactical skills and have neglected necessary science and engineering.
Like I said, I'm working from a ceteris paribus condition here (aka, using a 'fixed' Escort build, and only changing the ship). While I can survive perfectly in other Escorts, the same setup used on a Phantom shows the latter to be significantly weaker. You can lose 75% hull in one blow, on a Phantom; that never occurs on any of my other Escorts. One of my fave Escorts (not counting the Pilot ships and their built-in immunity) is the T6 Fleet Defiant, for instance. It feels 10x sturdier than the Phantom somehow. Don't ask me why, it just does.
Only thing to keep in mind is that the latest batch of NPC does physical damage, a damage type which is not resisted by most common shields and consoles. One of the latest mission rewards is an engineering console with physical resist and if survival is an issue against the latest batch of NPC then i advise you to use that console.
Hehe. I think I have that Trellium console. Didn't think it would actually really protect you from the 'shimmying' in the Expanse. LOL. I should try it out, one day soon.
Yes which is hit and run meim, if you want to call it mitigation, i have no issue with it, ill go ahead and continue to call it hit and run, shoot n scoot.
Whatever its called it "isn't tanking".
Escorts dont tank in STO, never have, unless Cryptic decides to change that with ridiculous stats or something, never will.
Comments
I take it that you are not familiar with speed tanking?
Speed tanking?, yea, shoot n scoot, hit and run, because if you dont hit "and" run your going to die, as opposed to the engineer cruiser tanker who just "tanks", their calling it speed tanking now?
Im 6yrs familiar with escorts at large and in general, ive done more of them than any other build.
I know it's probably my 320ish posts to your 5k+, don't let that foolya, im Mr. Tac Escort DPS freak.
Escorts do not tank, people made it up, hitting and running, or exploding if you dont, isn't tanking.
Not running, and tanking until you blow up, or win, thats tanking.
Depending how high your defense value is one only need a beam array setup in order not to have to run when grabbing and holding aggro while you shoot stuff on an escort. Think it works well.
Most high DPS builds on everybody’s favorite scimitars (granted not an escort but still somewhat fragile) even thrive on direct aggro management to utilize feedback pulse with the improved trait.
Times have changed a great deal over the past half-decade in this game. There was a time where Borg-Gates where considered to be un-tankable. Those times are long gone even for escorts set up properly. Evade the damage or take it with them, both works.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
Ive tinkered with those builds, between work and my legendary lack of patience i just went "meh" and piled on the dps.
I dont do elite anything anymore, so that arena i cant comment on, i do my best to build my escorts so theres just nothing left to tank but debris.
I wound up grinding the ECs for her to get it.
Ive dabbled with it with a vulcan tac temporal toon, but well "dabbled".
My pashion in scorts these days is that rommy with her tac pilot warbird.
Thanks for the feedback folks! I bought that variant myself and was thinking about going to town with it : ) Pew pew baby !
I'd say speed tanking is not so much about 'hit and run' tactics, as it's about mitigating damage to yourself, using your speed (= high Defense value). The Phantom was made for that purpose, actually, as its entire concept is built around the wickedly awesome Reciprocity Trait. Zipping around, at high velocity and high Defense, just using regular beams (not forward-arc Escort tactics), is how you 'officially' play the Phantom, letting Reciprocity kick in max.
Like I said, I'm working from a ceteris paribus condition here (aka, using a 'fixed' Escort build, and only changing the ship). While I can survive perfectly in other Escorts, the same setup used on a Phantom shows the latter to be significantly weaker. You can lose 75% hull in one blow, on a Phantom; that never occurs on any of my other Escorts. One of my fave Escorts (not counting the Pilot ships and their built-in immunity) is the T6 Fleet Defiant, for instance. It feels 10x sturdier than the Phantom somehow. Don't ask me why, it just does.
Hehe. I think I have that Trellium console. Didn't think it would actually really protect you from the 'shimmying' in the Expanse.
Purchased the 31c pack. From the 3 ships, the raider is for me the most difficult to master.
Have yet to play around with a lot of different boff layouts. I get the ship to survive and to spike, but it feels i am barely scratching the surface for its potential.
I have the ship; miss the Pilot seat (for an extra Attack Pattern Lambda). If you ever figure out how to fit it properly, be sure to let us know.
Yes which is hit and run meim, if you want to call it mitigation, i have no issue with it, ill go ahead and continue to call it hit and run, shoot n scoot.
Whatever its called it "isn't tanking".
Escorts dont tank in STO, never have, unless Cryptic decides to change that with ridiculous stats or something, never will.
Escorts aren't tanks, they are dps platforms.