Which is why I said that they took more militairistic stances, not that they became a militairy but defense and combat readiness certainly became more important.
Examples: development of more combat oriented ships like the Defiant, removal of families from the flagship, admirals who basically admitted that they wouldn't mind if a combined Tal Shiar-Obsidian Order force wiped out the Founders' homeworld, even Spock became more violent in the alternate timeline.
Starfleet may not be militairy, but that doesn't mean that we cannot have more military-ish looking uniforms. Cause all the conflicts certainly have had some impact and acknowledging that wouldn't hurt. Even if it were only to give us more in-game uniforms options.
I would like to see the Admiral uniform as well as that service/dress uniform with the associated *covers* (they are *not* hats in the military!). It wold give us some great customization options and I think is a great nod to those who have or are serving their country's military.
Starfleet is not a military or even descended from militaries. It calls them hats.
Starfleet in the prime timeline may not be militairy, but I wouldn't be surprised if they took a more militairistic stance in an alternate timeline where, not that long after its foundation, a core world was destroyed by some madman resulting in near extinction of a founder race.
Look at what the Dominion war (or the attack by the Xindi on Earth to give another example) did to Starfleet: more hawkish stances, swifter responses when under attack (even though a focus on exploration and diplomacy is still very present).
The KT Starfleet is not a military, according to Pike it is a peacekeeping and humanitarian force, so the UN essentially, instead of it's Prime Universe mission of diplomacy and exploration and defence.
Wolf 359 didn't make Starfleet a military, the Dominion War didn't make Starfleet a military. The attack on the Kelvin and the loss of Vulcan didn't make Starfleet a military. All the latter did was bring S31 into the light who began becoming the Federation's military in essence.
The Xindi stuff doesn't count really as it was an attack on Earth not on the Federation. Earth at that time had no strength in numbers that the Federation would later have so it needed it's military (of which we see MACOs as even Earth Starfleet weren't military).
If it operates like a military, and performs the responsibilities of a military, then it's a military.
The President could give a speech tomorrow and claim the US Army is a "peacekeeping and humanitarian force" if he wanted to, it wouldn't make it any less of a military organization. I just don't see how so many people can be so blind to the obvious fact that Starfleet IS the Federation's military ...
If they act like a humanitarian, colonisation, and research organisation and performs the responsibilities of a humanitarian, colonisation, and research organisation, then it's humanitarian, colonisation, and research organisation.
The head of NASA could give a speech tomorrow and claim NASA is a 'military' if he wanted to, it wouldn't make it any less of a exploration and research organisation. I just don't see how so many people can be so blind to the obvious fact that Starfleet is not the Federation's military despite it being blindingly obvious and stated by several different characters in different ways with different motives and agendas in different series and films and being the whole ethos of the show.
Which is why I said that they took more militairistic stances, not that they became a militairy but defense and combat readiness certainly became more important.
Examples: development of more combat oriented ships like the Defiant, removal of families from the flagship, admirals who basically admitted that they wouldn't mind if a combined Tal Shiar-Obsidian Order force wiped out the Founders' homeworld, even Spock became more violent in the alternate timeline.
Starfleet may not be militairy, but that doesn't mean that we cannot have more military-ish looking uniforms. Cause all the conflicts certainly have had some impact and acknowledging that wouldn't hurt. Even if it were only to give us more in-game uniforms options.
I broadly agree but I don't think it did. I think the Kelvin event was like Wolf 359, it changed the uniforms and we got the Defiant and Vengeance. Other than that it didn't change a whole lot. It's not like Yesterdays Enterprise where they all started carrying around sidearms all the time.
And I also don't think military uniforms or Starfleet uniforms taking that sort of style should appear at all. It would define the purpose of Starfleet uniforms in the first place. Primary coloured jumpers were Gene's way of showing that and even DS9 didn't try for anything other than to tone down the primary colours.
The sole exception was the TWOK style which resembled old Royal Navy uniforms, but even they didn't count as there is scarce little of that style in modern military uniforms.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
what uniform pieces are those? that looks even closer than what i used for my KT character
Kelvin timeline admiral uniform.. They will be available under the promotion tab in the c-store shortly.
Edit: And by shortly I mean... next week? The 21st of July? Why would they announce the giveaway this early?
Maybe because They are planning to give away stuff weekly from now until the 8th of September?
(50th Anniversary date)
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
the germans always know everything before we do...it's a wonder they lost both world wars
Best analogy? Standing in a tunnel and seeing a train coming does not help you get out of the way much better than it does the people five steps behind you.
Or to paraphrase Trinity from the Matrix. "Dodge this."
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
They look like West Point cadets with train conductor hats. It's very un-Sci-Fi.
Starfleet is military, and the uniform looks military
Marines Dress Blues look nicer.
Yes, but the way that uniform is portrayed in the movie makes it more analogous to the Service uniform than the Dress uniform. Dress Blue Alphas are ONLY worn for very special occasions, not going in to your CO's office for an TRIBBLE chewing. Granted, Service Alphas are primarily worn only when reporting to a new duty station, but that's still a lot closer to what the movie showed.
They look like West Point cadets with train conductor hats. It's very un-Sci-Fi.
Starfleet is military, and the uniform looks military
Marines Dress Blues look nicer.
Yes, but the way that uniform is portrayed in the movie makes it more analogous to the Service uniform than the Dress uniform. Dress Blue Alphas are ONLY worn for very special occasions, not going in to your CO's office for an **** chewing. Granted, Service Alphas are primarily worn only when reporting to a new duty station, but that's still a lot closer to what the movie showed.
It's a Starfleet dress uniform. It's worn whenever a duty uniform is a bit too casual to wear. Starfleet uniforms don't work like military ones. Some Starfleet eras don't even have dress uniforms, let alone a 'service uniform'.
The closest to that you get was TNG/DS9 where there were two or three dress uniforms in use, though none at the same time.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
TOS also had dress uniform. The episode "Court Martial" comes to mind. See also one of the TNG movies... Nemesis, I think? I believe that uniform is the one that is listed in STO as a diplomatic uniform or some such.
Star Fleet was never Military and should never be. As they always promoted Peace.
So, the fact that they desire for peace means they're not military? Because most Military organizations are built around the concept of defense and keeping peace.
Starfleet is very obviously the 'Earth Military,' everything about them is Military from their chain of command and ranks, to uniforms, training academy, pretty much everything. Being a Military organization does not mean that they're warlike. There are hostile forces in the Star Trek Universe, it's often necissary to fight even when we don't want to. For that reason, Star Fleet defends Earth and the Sol system, it's not their Primary Function (exploration and discovery) but clearly it's part of their responsibility.
I can't remember the last time I met a Civilian with the rank of Admiral or Lt. Commander.
They look like West Point cadets with train conductor hats. It's very un-Sci-Fi.
Starfleet is a military orginisation so i would expect something like those unis, youd have your to take a page for the marines i think it is their Dress Blues , and then they would have the normal service attire, what KT spock and kirk are wearing would be the formal dress blues.
Not what they would wear each day or during a mission, just during formal functions
TOS also had dress uniform. The episode "Court Martial" comes to mind. See also one of the TNG movies... Nemesis, I think? I believe that uniform is the one that is listed in STO as a diplomatic uniform or some such.
TOS, TMP (going by Kirk's different uniform at the start), TNG, DS9, and FC eras all have them (so does ENT but that's a different Starfleet). Kelvin, Cage, TWoK, Wells etc. are all eras that don't.
Starfleet is very obviously the 'Earth Military,' everything about them is Military from their chain of command and ranks, to uniforms, training academy, pretty much everything.
You're still making that point?
Really? Count the amount of ex-military in the ST fandom who get annoyed at SF 'misuse' of chains of command and ranks? Also, those two concepts are not military exclusive as you well know. Their uniforms are not military uniforms as is clearly obvious. Training academies? Really? No specialists on the entire planet use those! Conclusive proof there then.
They look like West Point cadets with train conductor hats. It's very un-Sci-Fi.
Starfleet is a military orginisation so i would expect something like those unis, youd have your to take a page for the marines i think it is their Dress Blues , and then they would have the normal service attire, what KT spock and kirk are wearing would be the formal dress blues.
Not what they would wear each day or during a mission, just during formal functions
Have you actually seen Star Trek or Into Darkness? It's not a military, it seldom uses hats, it's based on navies and air forces not marines, it's a dress uniform and it's not blue even for Spock. It's really not a departure from any other Trek except for the hat.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Starfleet in both the Prime and Kelvin Timeline is Paramilitary.
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
If it operates like a military, and performs the responsibilities of a military, then it's a military.
The President could give a speech tomorrow and claim the US Army is a "peacekeeping and humanitarian force" if he wanted to, it wouldn't make it any less of a military organization. I just don't see how so many people can be so blind to the obvious fact that Starfleet IS the Federation's military ...
If it operates like a military and performs the responsibilities of a military, then you might call it a military (I have no problem with seeing Starfleet as the Federation's de-facto military, it just has other roles too, and potential non-military origins for a lot of its seeming military-ness)... but that does not mean a military that follows every military tradition, especially not ones without anything to do with, y'know, actually being a military and that aren't even the case in every human military. So no, they're hats until further notice.
I can't remember the last time I met a Civilian with the rank of Admiral or Lt. Commander.
They are when you have a Local Militia. Firefighters carry ranks, and the Police as well. They are not military
Star Fleet is an organization, not the Military. Just their ranks and stuff mimics the Military. Just like the ones I mentioned.
Other note, KU Kirk disobeyed many orders and he got a ship to captain for his reward. No Military structure would allow that. Other words, they rewarded a criminal!
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
Comments
Examples: development of more combat oriented ships like the Defiant, removal of families from the flagship, admirals who basically admitted that they wouldn't mind if a combined Tal Shiar-Obsidian Order force wiped out the Founders' homeworld, even Spock became more violent in the alternate timeline.
Starfleet may not be militairy, but that doesn't mean that we cannot have more military-ish looking uniforms. Cause all the conflicts certainly have had some impact and acknowledging that wouldn't hurt. Even if it were only to give us more in-game uniforms options.
If they act like a humanitarian, colonisation, and research organisation and performs the responsibilities of a humanitarian, colonisation, and research organisation, then it's humanitarian, colonisation, and research organisation.
The head of NASA could give a speech tomorrow and claim NASA is a 'military' if he wanted to, it wouldn't make it any less of a exploration and research organisation. I just don't see how so many people can be so blind to the obvious fact that Starfleet is not the Federation's military despite it being blindingly obvious and stated by several different characters in different ways with different motives and agendas in different series and films and being the whole ethos of the show.
I broadly agree but I don't think it did. I think the Kelvin event was like Wolf 359, it changed the uniforms and we got the Defiant and Vengeance. Other than that it didn't change a whole lot. It's not like Yesterdays Enterprise where they all started carrying around sidearms all the time.
And I also don't think military uniforms or Starfleet uniforms taking that sort of style should appear at all. It would define the purpose of Starfleet uniforms in the first place. Primary coloured jumpers were Gene's way of showing that and even DS9 didn't try for anything other than to tone down the primary colours.
The sole exception was the TWOK style which resembled old Royal Navy uniforms, but even they didn't count as there is scarce little of that style in modern military uniforms.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
what uniform pieces are those? that looks even closer than what i used for my KT character
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Kelvin timeline admiral uniform.. They will be available under the promotion tab in the c-store shortly.
Edit: And by shortly I mean... next week? The 21st of July? Why would they announce the giveaway this early?
Let me guess... the Germans again?
Ze Germans.. it's always ze Germans.
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Thank you for this info!
...hmmm
ya, I can second that....more choices are good.
It's on the front page.
http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/10073423-kelvin-admiral-uniform-giveaway
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Maybe because They are planning to give away stuff weekly from now until the 8th of September?
(50th Anniversary date)
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Best analogy? Standing in a tunnel and seeing a train coming does not help you get out of the way much better than it does the people five steps behind you.
Or to paraphrase Trinity from the Matrix. "Dodge this."
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
Marines Dress Blues look nicer.
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” -- Benjamin Franklin
Yes, but the way that uniform is portrayed in the movie makes it more analogous to the Service uniform than the Dress uniform. Dress Blue Alphas are ONLY worn for very special occasions, not going in to your CO's office for an TRIBBLE chewing. Granted, Service Alphas are primarily worn only when reporting to a new duty station, but that's still a lot closer to what the movie showed.
It's a Starfleet dress uniform. It's worn whenever a duty uniform is a bit too casual to wear. Starfleet uniforms don't work like military ones. Some Starfleet eras don't even have dress uniforms, let alone a 'service uniform'.
The closest to that you get was TNG/DS9 where there were two or three dress uniforms in use, though none at the same time.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
The Kelvin Universe is done so, since its a reboot of Star Trek. And gives the writers freedom to do as they wish.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
So, the fact that they desire for peace means they're not military? Because most Military organizations are built around the concept of defense and keeping peace.
Starfleet is very obviously the 'Earth Military,' everything about them is Military from their chain of command and ranks, to uniforms, training academy, pretty much everything. Being a Military organization does not mean that they're warlike. There are hostile forces in the Star Trek Universe, it's often necissary to fight even when we don't want to. For that reason, Star Fleet defends Earth and the Sol system, it's not their Primary Function (exploration and discovery) but clearly it's part of their responsibility.
I can't remember the last time I met a Civilian with the rank of Admiral or Lt. Commander.
Starfleet is a military orginisation so i would expect something like those unis, youd have your to take a page for the marines i think it is their Dress Blues , and then they would have the normal service attire, what KT spock and kirk are wearing would be the formal dress blues.
Not what they would wear each day or during a mission, just during formal functions
TOS, TMP (going by Kirk's different uniform at the start), TNG, DS9, and FC eras all have them (so does ENT but that's a different Starfleet). Kelvin, Cage, TWoK, Wells etc. are all eras that don't.
Though you're correct, that's not the reason why.
You're still making that point?
Really? Count the amount of ex-military in the ST fandom who get annoyed at SF 'misuse' of chains of command and ranks? Also, those two concepts are not military exclusive as you well know. Their uniforms are not military uniforms as is clearly obvious. Training academies? Really? No specialists on the entire planet use those! Conclusive proof there then.
Have you actually seen Star Trek or Into Darkness? It's not a military, it seldom uses hats, it's based on navies and air forces not marines, it's a dress uniform and it's not blue even for Spock. It's really not a departure from any other Trek except for the hat.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
They are when you have a Local Militia. Firefighters carry ranks, and the Police as well. They are not military
Star Fleet is an organization, not the Military. Just their ranks and stuff mimics the Military. Just like the ones I mentioned.
Other note, KU Kirk disobeyed many orders and he got a ship to captain for his reward. No Military structure would allow that. Other words, they rewarded a criminal!
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.