Actually, if you played the new AoY missions you would know the Tholians killed the Na'khul's star because the Na'khul committed an act of terrorism against them, by slaughtering an entire colony fleet without mercy. The Prime Directive states to not interfere in the affairs of other races when possible.
Those Na'khul would have been from the future, which from their prespective, the Tholians have already dimmed their sun. So question ... who made the 'first move' ?
tried using time travel as a weapon, you know the same thing we just stopped some else from doing cause it's bad and insane.
which wasn't stopped by the feds changing their minds but by a klingon, depending on your character there could be no feds on site to change their minds.
helped to kobali stop the vaadwaur from freeing their people.
started using cloaks on a semi regular basis, and treaty breaking about cloaks after all romluns still exist even if they are in no position to press the matter.
let the tholians kill the na'kuhl's star for reason.
oh and pressganged the ToS captain into a war he shouldn't have been alive to be a part of. assume that last mission would have killed them otherwise.
Which we literally stopped and did about face while saying "WOW, this is really dumb!" before we actually did anything. Not to mention we only almost did that because the Iconians were committing a war of total genocide across the entire galaxy, and refused any sort of negotiations. It was purely a reactionary event to an otherwise hostile force attacking first.
By this logic it wasn't the Feds who came up with the idea, it was the Alpha Quadrant Alliance, which included the Feds, Klinkss, and Roms, and it was that same alliance who stopped it.
The same Vaadwaur who waged a war of total extermination against many species across the Delta quadrant, and refused any sort of peaceful negotiation. Not to mention the fact we only found out what the Kobali were doing long after the war had started, and in the mission where we find out what the Kobali are doing, we tell them that the Alliance doesn't approve of what they are doing, and that the Kobali should have come clean at the beginning.
Except
A. The Romular Star Empire nullified the treaty themselves
B. Since the formation of the alliance, the lawful continuation of the Romulan government, The Romulan Republic, has said its ok for us to do it.
Actually, if you played the new AoY missions you would know the Tholians killed the Na'khul's star because the Na'khul committed an act of terrorism against them, by slaughtering an entire colony fleet without mercy. The Prime Directive states to not interfere in the affairs of other races when possible.
The ToS captain had every right to refuse Daniels, and ask to be put back in the time stream. Which nothing suggests Daniels wouldn't have done. Not to mention said Captain had every ability to tell Daniels to go away when Daniels first revealed who he was, that they didn't is the ToS captain's choice.
So yeah, nothing we did was wrong in any of those situation.
the "this was dumb" not because morals but cause oops borg won and fixing that nearly genocided the sphere builders at the very destroyed what the were before. and? moral pure people don't do dirty thing cause someone else did first thats the point of alot of star trek episodes. see: benjamin "genocide" sisko kinda having a mini breakdown over in the pale moonlight. and that was actually us traveling back in time with plans to genocide the iconians bringing sela with us is what made them attack us. again without the other, us, they would likely be dead, the dead normally do not kill people.
and since when has that ever actually stop starfleet from anything, notable their always an "insane admiral" on hand to do it "against" starfleet orders. that was kirk going "crazy" once and stealing a romulan cloak and pimping out his first officer a little. hell even in sto the interfered between the gorn and the klingons. and that had nothing to do with them at all. they opted out when they told the klingons. "no, we will not help you." in this case the action of starfleet literally allowed it to happen,which you would know if you played AoY. we and by that I mean the players gave Kal Dano the timeship klindly provide by daniels. that he used to bring the Tox Uthat to the past allowing Tholians to take it and destroy Na'kuhl's sun. we could have taken the Tox Uthat and at least tried to save their sun but no we decided to bury on risa of all places instead. with nothing keeping us from trying then burying it it's not like we were on a timelimit we buried it in the past anyway oh and had one in storage too. everything that has happened in sto is the players fault... we're terrible captains/admirals/dahar masters.
and ToS choice was die and kill our crew which no startfleet captain would do if they could avoid or do what daniels wants, not really a choice.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
hell even in sto the interfered between the gorn and the klingons. and that had nothing to do with them at all. they opted out when they told the klingons. "no, we will not help you." in this case the action of starfleet literally allowed it to happen,which you would know if you played AoY.
OFC they did, because thats how the Prime Directive works.
only applies when it gets people killed, preferable in large numbers?
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
The next arc seems to be a Mirror Universe based one.
Anyone else kinda dissapointed it isn't a arc based on some Alpha Quad species like the Cardassians, or Ferengi, or something else?
Sorry but that would be the most mindless idea (had to cleaned it)...why beat mirror to death when we already have a Terran rep that used terran marks battling the mu. Don't go by the blogs otherwise we would have a 1000 different arcs.
Tholian/Breen alliance with So'na and True Way meat puppets.
A. So'na are in the Beta quad
B. They stopped existing after the movie they were in when they decided to go back to the planet they came from.
C. GOD NO LETS US FORGET THAT GOD AWFUL MOVIE
The Son'a were mentioned by Weyoun and Damar in season 7 of DS9, after the events of "Insurrection". They apparently allied themselves with the Dominion, supplying them with Ketracel-white.
only applies when it gets people killed, preferable in large numbers?
It applies all the time. Everything we have done in STO so far has been the result of someone attacking us first, and thus falls within the Prime directive
except because of time travel we attack the iconian first. well sela but she was there because of us.
and I was making a joke if you look at the shows the only time anyone cares about the prime directive is when a whole lota people die if it is followed. but if they could just sail on by and not cause trouble they end up interfereing. most probably cause they wanted to show how strong their morals are when they could stick to it when it hard to, then forgetting about it when it doesn't.
the "this was dumb" not because morals but cause oops borg won and fixing that nearly genocided the sphere builders at the very destroyed what the were before. and? moral pure people don't do dirty thing cause someone else did first thats the point of alot of star trek episodes. see: benjamin "genocide" sisko kinda having a mini breakdown over in the pale moonlight. and that was actually us traveling back in time with plans to genocide the iconians bringing sela with us is what made them attack us. again without the other, us, they would likely be dead, the dead normally do not kill people.
and since when has that ever actually stop starfleet from anything, notable their always an "insane admiral" on hand to do it "against" starfleet orders. that was kirk going "crazy" once and stealing a romulan cloak and pimping out his first officer a little. hell even in sto the interfered between the gorn and the klingons. and that had nothing to do with them at all. they opted out when they told the klingons. "no, we will not help you." in this case the action of starfleet literally allowed it to happen,which you would know if you played AoY. we and by that I mean the players gave Kal Dano the timeship klindly provide by daniels. that he used to bring the Tox Uthat to the past allowing Tholians to take it and destroy Na'kuhl's sun. we could have taken the Tox Uthat and at least tried to save their sun but no we decided to bury on risa of all places instead. with nothing keeping us from trying then burying it it's not like we were on a timelimit we buried it in the past anyway oh and had one in storage too. everything that has happened in sto is the players fault... we're terrible captains/admirals/dahar masters.
and ToS choice was die and kill our crew which no startfleet captain would do if they could avoid or do what daniels wants, not really a choice.
I was speaking of the Alliance's plan to break their morals by going back in time and committing genocide on the Iconians, which was stopped because we realized its a dumb idea, and because the Iconians aren't actually evil.
The Federation never did ANYTHING to interfere in the Gorn/Klingon war.
Actually Daniels gave his own time ship to Kal Dano, the player had no decision in the matter.
And no, we couldn't have tried to use the Tox Uthat to save the Na'khul's sun because that would create an open paradox.
the federation wasn't part of that choice. the federation technically didn't exist yet. have you ever played midnight? it was Kagran, a kdf Captain who made the call. we could spend the whole mission agree with sela and some how we never get to kill them. granted I'm willing to call it bad writing but it doesn't change what happened.
please read the backstory feds kept dragging klingons and gorn back into talks. while not helping root out undine and gorn kept attacking klingons. tell martok continuously listening to the feds caused the warhawks lead by our new high chancellor to kill him. that some pretty big interference. and their actions after lead the kdf decide they were full of undine too... which ended up being true.
it lauched from our shuttle bay and we let it. we were part of it too.
and? if we can risk it to save our own neck why not to save some else? that is the nobler choice isn't?
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
Except you are ignoring the fact its a predestination paradox which has no actual beginning. We only go back in time because the Iconians attacked us first. Time is not linear, stop acting like it is.
Except, again, its a predestination paradox. the federation existed because it was the Feds, Klinks, and Roms, who went back in time and made the choice. Kagran was the assigned leader of the Alliances forces, and was thus the representative of all three factions.
Its not the Federation's job to root out the Undine as there was no solid proof the Undine had taken over, and even if there was, the only action the Federation could take is what they did, attempted negotiations. The Federation involvement in the affair was their attempts to get their allies the Klingons to avoid a bloody war, once the Klingons left the accords, the Federation had no involvement.
Who says we let it? Daniels is a temporal operative, there was nothing we could have done to stop him.
Because creating an open paradox could destroy time itself, killing everyone.
alright time isn't linear.
lets go with moral. I'll take the slow way
do you do evil to stop the greater evil or do you remain just?
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
I am, but I have found people respond better when walked to the answer then when told it. and don't worry there isn't a debate to be had .
besides you started this one when you said the feds are squeakily clean. or did you mean hygiene? boy, that would be embarrassing for me.
Then make it.
No, you started it when you went on your increasingly long diversionary tangent where you have constantly tried to change the original arguments being made.
If you have a point make it, because, so far, you have yet to provide any substantial argument that the Federation in any way wasn't morally clean this whole time.
again I'm trying to your not letting me. and I have not, I have said the whole time the federation has been party to unclean acts while listing said unclean acts. therefore is unclean as well. you reply the time whole has nah ah, no they haven't.
now, please answer the question. so I can walk you though the logic.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
again I'm trying to your not letting me. and I have not, I have said the whole time the federation has been party to unclean acts while listing said unclean acts. therefore is unclean as well.
you reply the time whole has nah ah, no they haven't.
Except you aren't, your going into a pointless tangent about hypothetical, make the point or stop trying to argue a point you have no intention of making.
Actually my reply thus far has been pointing out how each of those acts weren't "unclean" but direct moral and ethical responses to being attacked by another power first. So far YOUR responses have been
-Time is linear
-The federation didn't exist at the time they sent people back in time too, so that means those people can't represent the Federation from the time they were sent from.
-Divergent tangents on hypotheticals about morality.
Make a solid point or don;t bother.
ok time isn't linear, so no event happened, first yes?
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
I had originally hoped that the Mirror Universe would be an expansive region similar to the prime universe but the alternate reality version of it, rather than a few instanced episode areas. Perhaps they'll expand it eventually- or perhaps it's cost-prohibitive for them to spend that much time developing it all.
Such an area would benefit everyone, I think- no matter what faction/race you play, as you'd be able to freely explore the area much as you can the current regions. Think of it as a dimensional portal.
Anyway, I don't believe faction/race specific arcs are in everyone's best interests, as it's exclusive by its own nature- and also becomes tedious for them to maintain it eventually. Ultimately, the goal if they're planning on focusing more on the PvE aspects of developing the game, you'd want a more unified approach rather than an exclusive one. (Romulans, for example)
They're going to do what they're going to do- regardless of anyone's input, I suppose. We can either accept it or reject it, but whining about it isn't going to change a damned thing.
It's not you- it's me. I just need my space.
Being critical doesn't take skill. Being constructively critical- which is providing alternative solutions or suggestions to a demonstrated problem, however, does.
I had originally hoped that the Mirror Universe would be an expansive region similar to the prime universe but the alternate reality version of it, rather than a few instanced episode areas. Perhaps they'll expand it eventually- or perhaps it's cost-prohibitive for them to spend that much time developing it all.
Such an area would benefit everyone, I think- no matter what faction/race you play, as you'd be able to freely explore the area much as you can the current regions. Think of it as a dimensional portal.
Anyway, I don't believe faction/race specific arcs are in everyone's best interests, as it's exclusive by its own nature- and also becomes tedious for them to maintain it eventually. Ultimately, the goal if they're planning on focusing more on the PvE aspects of developing the game, you'd want a more unified approach rather than an exclusive one. (Romulans, for example)
They're going to do what they're going to do- regardless of anyone's input, I suppose. We can either accept it or reject it, but whining about it isn't going to change a damned thing.
I doubt they would make a Mirror Universe playable map or anything.
From what we see in the Star trek TV shows, the MU is basically the same as the normal one except humans are ****.
There really wouldn't be anything new there, in fact, due to the Terrans habit of killing everyone and thing they cant conquer, there would be even less in the MU
again I am trying and trying in a way the we can be I'm not twisting any words so please ether allow me to make a point or stop asking for one.
Asking questions is not making a point, its asking a question. State what you think or get out of my thread since you obviously aren't here for civil discourse.
I think there is none to be had with you at least, but as you wish I'll bow out here, have a good day/night sir/ma'am.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
Tholian/Breen alliance with So'na and True Way meat puppets.
A. So'na are in the Beta quad
B. They stopped existing after the movie they were in when they decided to go back to the planet they came from.
C. GOD NO LETS US FORGET THAT GOD AWFUL MOVIE
Their homeworld is in the BQ but as they were allies of the Dominion they have to have territory in either Cardassian or Breen space in the AQ.
They also have a minor empire with Tarlac and Ellora and probably Ba'ku subjects.
'Penumbra' is set after 'Insurrection' where the So'na are now more or less full members of the Dominion.
I hate that film (it's the second worst after V) but the So'na are mildly interesting and their ships are, however, awsome.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
I want a mirror mission where you FIGHT your mirror self, and maybe even get captured and tortured by them before your daring escape.
What about being the Mirror version torturing your character for various reasons?
How would they explain that in the story? Your character has an eerie out of body experience as somoene else?
then afterwards you could be all shocked dealing with the memory of yourself being evil and torturing your real self which is you- none of that makes sense but it would be interesting.
they could do like they did with shattered universe - a consciousness swap
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
How would they explain that in the story? Your character has an eerie out of body experience as somoene else?
then afterwards you could be all shocked dealing with the memory of yourself being evil and torturing your real self which is you- none of that makes sense but it would be interesting.
An Orb experience, either on DS9 or Bajor?
Better idea, your mirror self steals the orb and it malfunctions somehow, or they try to use it to "assist" in your interrogation but things don't go as planned.
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
Comments
Those Na'khul would have been from the future, which from their prespective, the Tholians have already dimmed their sun. So question ... who made the 'first move' ?
the "this was dumb" not because morals but cause oops borg won and fixing that nearly genocided the sphere builders at the very destroyed what the were before. and? moral pure people don't do dirty thing cause someone else did first thats the point of alot of star trek episodes. see: benjamin "genocide" sisko kinda having a mini breakdown over in the pale moonlight. and that was actually us traveling back in time with plans to genocide the iconians bringing sela with us is what made them attack us. again without the other, us, they would likely be dead, the dead normally do not kill people.
and since when has that ever actually stop starfleet from anything, notable their always an "insane admiral" on hand to do it "against" starfleet orders. that was kirk going "crazy" once and stealing a romulan cloak and pimping out his first officer a little. hell even in sto the interfered between the gorn and the klingons. and that had nothing to do with them at all. they opted out when they told the klingons. "no, we will not help you." in this case the action of starfleet literally allowed it to happen,which you would know if you played AoY. we and by that I mean the players gave Kal Dano the timeship klindly provide by daniels. that he used to bring the Tox Uthat to the past allowing Tholians to take it and destroy Na'kuhl's sun. we could have taken the Tox Uthat and at least tried to save their sun but no we decided to bury on risa of all places instead. with nothing keeping us from trying then burying it it's not like we were on a timelimit we buried it in the past anyway oh and had one in storage too. everything that has happened in sto is the players fault... we're terrible captains/admirals/dahar masters.
and ToS choice was die and kill our crew which no startfleet captain would do if they could avoid or do what daniels wants, not really a choice.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
only applies when it gets people killed, preferable in large numbers?
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
Sorry but that would be the most mindless idea (had to cleaned it)...why beat mirror to death when we already have a Terran rep that used terran marks battling the mu. Don't go by the blogs otherwise we would have a 1000 different arcs.
The Son'a were mentioned by Weyoun and Damar in season 7 of DS9, after the events of "Insurrection". They apparently allied themselves with the Dominion, supplying them with Ketracel-white.
Commanding Officer: Captain Pyotr Ramonovich Amosov
Dedication Plaque: "Nil Intentatum Reliquit"
except because of time travel we attack the iconian first. well sela but she was there because of us.
and I was making a joke if you look at the shows the only time anyone cares about the prime directive is when a whole lota people die if it is followed. but if they could just sail on by and not cause trouble they end up interfereing. most probably cause they wanted to show how strong their morals are when they could stick to it when it hard to, then forgetting about it when it doesn't.
the federation wasn't part of that choice. the federation technically didn't exist yet. have you ever played midnight? it was Kagran, a kdf Captain who made the call. we could spend the whole mission agree with sela and some how we never get to kill them. granted I'm willing to call it bad writing but it doesn't change what happened.
please read the backstory feds kept dragging klingons and gorn back into talks. while not helping root out undine and gorn kept attacking klingons. tell martok continuously listening to the feds caused the warhawks lead by our new high chancellor to kill him. that some pretty big interference. and their actions after lead the kdf decide they were full of undine too... which ended up being true.
it lauched from our shuttle bay and we let it. we were part of it too.
and? if we can risk it to save our own neck why not to save some else? that is the nobler choice isn't?
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
alright time isn't linear.
lets go with moral. I'll take the slow way
do you do evil to stop the greater evil or do you remain just?
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
humor me, please?
so remain just then?
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
I am, but I have found people respond better when walked to the answer then when told it. and don't worry there isn't a debate to be had .
besides you started this one when you said the feds are squeakily clean. or did you mean hygiene? boy, that would be embarrassing for me.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
again I'm trying to your not letting me. and I have not, I have said the whole time the federation has been party to unclean acts while listing said unclean acts. therefore is unclean as well. you reply the time whole has nah ah, no they haven't.
now, please answer the question. so I can walk you though the logic.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
ok time isn't linear, so no event happened, first yes?
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
Such an area would benefit everyone, I think- no matter what faction/race you play, as you'd be able to freely explore the area much as you can the current regions. Think of it as a dimensional portal.
Anyway, I don't believe faction/race specific arcs are in everyone's best interests, as it's exclusive by its own nature- and also becomes tedious for them to maintain it eventually. Ultimately, the goal if they're planning on focusing more on the PvE aspects of developing the game, you'd want a more unified approach rather than an exclusive one. (Romulans, for example)
They're going to do what they're going to do- regardless of anyone's input, I suppose. We can either accept it or reject it, but whining about it isn't going to change a damned thing.
Being critical doesn't take skill. Being constructively critical- which is providing alternative solutions or suggestions to a demonstrated problem, however, does.
again I am trying and trying in a way the we can be I'm not twisting any words so please ether allow me to make a point or stop asking for one.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
I think there is none to be had with you at least, but as you wish I'll bow out here, have a good day/night sir/ma'am.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
Their homeworld is in the BQ but as they were allies of the Dominion they have to have territory in either Cardassian or Breen space in the AQ.
They also have a minor empire with Tarlac and Ellora and probably Ba'ku subjects.
'Penumbra' is set after 'Insurrection' where the So'na are now more or less full members of the Dominion.
I hate that film (it's the second worst after V) but the So'na are mildly interesting and their ships are, however, awsome.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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I'd love a "The Enemy Within" style mission, where Evil You is running around in your ship's interior and you have to stop him/her/it.
If you have a Lobi store ship, you and Evil You just chase each other around the bridge.
they could do like they did with shattered universe - a consciousness swap
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Better idea, your mirror self steals the orb and it malfunctions somehow, or they try to use it to "assist" in your interrogation but things don't go as planned.
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."