@Artan42 has a VERY SPECIFIC set of head-canon rules he lives by, there's no sense in trying to convince him otherwise.
And really, what's the harm... ?
We all have specifics in head-canon about Trek in one form or another, so other than creating a lengthy disagreement in the forums it's kinda-sorta silly to try and change each others minds.
Most of us are willing to accept what the actual Creators of the movies/TV shows give as apocrypha, some folks aren't.
<shrug>
It is funny though that when ever the Okuda's come up with something behind the scenes, it's automatically accepted by just about everybody.
The Kelvin Timeline, is never mentioned onscreen...
Yet, here we are...
<chuckle>
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
@Artan42 has a VERY SPECIFIC set of head-canon rules he lives by, there's no sense in trying to convince him otherwise.
And really, what's the harm... ?
We all have specifics in head-canon about Trek in one form or another, so other than creating a lengthy disagreement in the forums it's kinda-sorta silly to try and change each others minds.
Most of us are willing to accept what the actual Creators of the movies/TV shows give as apocrypha, some folks aren't.
<shrug>
Well CBS' canon rules, but hey, what would the people who designed ST's canon know about it?
If youse are all so desperate to have your weird shaved Caitians then go ahead, it's your headcanon, just don't try to pretend that it's CBS' canon.
There’s a lot of bickering about it among fans, but in its purest sense, it’s really pretty simple: Canon is Star Trek continuity as presented on TV and Movie screens.
Not behind them, not under them, not over them, on them.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
@antonine3258 : Different timeline, remember? Incorporating ENT retcons, I think we can be safe in inferring that after Kelvin's destruction, there was a diplomatic kerfuffle with Romulus where the pointy-ears insisted they had no more clue what happened than the Feds did.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
There’s a lot of bickering about it among fans, but in its purest sense, it’s really pretty simple: Canon is Star Trek continuity as presented on TV and Movie screens.
Not behind them, not under them, not over them, on them.
By that definition, the JJ-prise is both 366 meters and 725 meters long, because it appeared on screen as both sizes. What size do you accept as correct?
There’s a lot of bickering about it among fans, but in its purest sense, it’s really pretty simple: Canon is Star Trek continuity as presented on TV and Movie screens.
Not behind them, not under them, not over them, on them.
By that definition, the JJ-prise is both 366 meters and 725 meters long, because it appeared on screen as both sizes. What size do you accept as correct?
I accept it's a situation as with the Defiant where there are conflicting figures. In the end I accept the size the the most substantiation. For the Defiant that's ~150m and for the AR Constitution it's ~360m. There will always be scenes that contradict those sizes, but the majority of the evidence settles on one.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
@starkaos : Considering Nero and his crew were recognized by AR Starfleet as being Romulans, I think we're pretty safe in assuming the Roms of the Kelvin Timeline aren't dramatically different from the prime universe (other than their homeworld still existing).
I was using Romulans as an example. It could have been Tellarites, Andorians, Ferengi, Rigelians, Betazed, or some other known Prime Universe alien race. As long as the Kelvin Universe version looks different enough from the original version and can't be explained through a hairless breed that existed in the Prime Universe, but we have never seen there.
@Artan42 has a VERY SPECIFIC set of head-canon rules he lives by, there's no sense in trying to convince him otherwise.
And really, what's the harm... ?
We all have specifics in head-canon about Trek in one form or another, so other than creating a lengthy disagreement in the forums it's kinda-sorta silly to try and change each others minds.
Most of us are willing to accept what the actual Creators of the movies/TV shows give as apocrypha, some folks aren't.
<shrug>
Well CBS' canon rules, but hey, what would the people who designed ST's canon know about it?
If youse are all so desperate to have your weird shaved Caitians then go ahead, it's your headcanon, just don't try to pretend that it's CBS' canon.
There’s a lot of bickering about it among fans, but in its purest sense, it’s really pretty simple: Canon is Star Trek continuity as presented on TV and Movie screens.
Not behind them, not under them, not over them, on them.
As I said... You live by a much stricter set of self-imposed rules, than many of the rest of us do.
It's OK though.., I enjoy Star Trek just as much as I'm sure you do...,
I just choose NOT to Limit my enjoyment only to what I can actually SEE.
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
@Artan42 has a VERY SPECIFIC set of head-canon rules he lives by, there's no sense in trying to convince him otherwise.
And really, what's the harm... ?
We all have specifics in head-canon about Trek in one form or another, so other than creating a lengthy disagreement in the forums it's kinda-sorta silly to try and change each others minds.
Most of us are willing to accept what the actual Creators of the movies/TV shows give as apocrypha, some folks aren't.
<shrug>
Well CBS' canon rules, but hey, what would the people who designed ST's canon know about it?
If youse are all so desperate to have your weird shaved Caitians then go ahead, it's your headcanon, just don't try to pretend that it's CBS' canon.
There’s a lot of bickering about it among fans, but in its purest sense, it’s really pretty simple: Canon is Star Trek continuity as presented on TV and Movie screens.
Not behind them, not under them, not over them, on them.
As I said... You live by a much stricter set of self-imposed rules, than many of the rest of us do.
It's OK though.., I enjoy Star Trek just as much as I'm sure you do...,
I just choose NOT to Limit my enjoyment only to what I can actually SEE.
I have no such impositions on my headcanon. There's lots of things about ST I belive that are completely unsubstantiated. Khan and Harrison being different people for one. ENT and TAR forming a completely separate QR to the rest of ST for another. I just have no illusions about what is canon and what is not.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Khan and Harrison being different people directly contradicts all on screen Canon and official supplemental material.
Sigh. I said headcanon. And since when have I cared about this 'supplementary material' (read, non-canon material)?
Besides, no it doesn't. There is plenty of room for Khan and Harrison to be different people. Who was the only person in the entire film to use Khan's full name? Spock Prime. Had Spock Prime seen or heard anything other than the name Khan? No. Is it possible there are two Augments named Khan? Well obviously.
I'm not arguing they are different people for anybody other than myself to tidy up a small complaint I have with ID. I'm certainly not trying to pretend it's canon as with people conflating Caitians with random aliens.
Khan and Harrison being different people directly contradicts all on screen Canon and official supplemental material.
This. And if they ARE different people, where did all the cryotubes with augments inside come from?
Eh? The Botany Bay has more than Khan onboard.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
@antonine3258 : Different timeline, remember? Incorporating ENT retcons, I think we can be safe in inferring that after Kelvin's destruction, there was a diplomatic kerfuffle with Romulus where the pointy-ears insisted they had no more clue what happened than the Feds did.
Right, it's the really classic 'this was never the Prime timeline, just something that looked similar' citation.
I'd love to see what they were up to - maybe the Klingons started raiding them using the Narada as a justification.
Fate - protects fools, small children, and ships named Enterprise Will Riker
Member Access Denied Armada!
My forum single-issue of rage: Make the Proton Experimental Weapon go for subsystem targetting!
That was not shown on screen, so as I said they are fully capable of changing that if they choose to. Official =/= canon. If it's not shown or said on screen then it's only true until the writers decide it's not.
He offered conjecture, a retcon like this is still entirely possible. I'm not saying this is the case, only that there is currently nothing stopping the writers from coming in with a new "revelation" that this was a completely different universe even before Nero arrived.
Don't get me wrong, I actually like the JJ-verse, so I'm not trying to find a way to make it not canon. I just find the possibility interesting ... and the Franklin having blue ram scoops annoys the hell out of me, so I'm searching for an explanation I can accept, lol.
You are under the rather mistaken impression that FACTS established on screen can't be retconned to suit whatever they are showing NOW. The series is full of these mistakes. What is on screen being the only thing canon is also WRONG. Canon is whatever the holder of the IP says it is. If paramount wants to say that the JJ trek is AR...then that is canon...until they change their mind. What YOU think is canon is irrelivant compared to what the IP holder says.
That quote is five days old, and my opinion has evolved significantly since then, which you'll find if you read more than just the first page. I also never claimed any of what I said in that quote was fact or what I believed to be the case, only that at the time i thought it was fun to think about because of the interesting possibilities that it would open up. I find my new theory far more interesting though.
It's my head canon that the AR was caused by Scotty showing that engineer how to make transparent aluminum
Interestingly, in the novelization of that movie, Scotty was at first in awe upon meeting the 20th-century engineer - because the man's name had come down through history as the inventor of transparent aluminum. Scotty was just giving him a nudge. (The novelization also included a cute scene in which Sulu runs into one of his ancestors as a child in San Francisco. Literally - kid isn't watching where he's going, and bounces off Sulu's legs.)
ETA: But just to correct you here, I wasn't talking about cuproglobin, what I'm assuming they call the Vulcanoid version of hemoglobin, being impossible (though I don't have the chemistry to know how efficient it would be), just the crossbreed part.
There are a number of invertebrates on Earth which use a copper-based molecule known as hemocyanin for oxygen transport.
Comments
And really, what's the harm... ?
We all have specifics in head-canon about Trek in one form or another, so other than creating a lengthy disagreement in the forums it's kinda-sorta silly to try and change each others minds.
Most of us are willing to accept what the actual Creators of the movies/TV shows give as apocrypha, some folks aren't.
<shrug>
It is funny though that when ever the Okuda's come up with something behind the scenes, it's automatically accepted by just about everybody.
The Kelvin Timeline, is never mentioned onscreen...
Yet, here we are...
<chuckle>
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Well CBS' canon rules, but hey, what would the people who designed ST's canon know about it?
If youse are all so desperate to have your weird shaved Caitians then go ahead, it's your headcanon, just don't try to pretend that it's CBS' canon.
Here, it's really not a hard concept.
Not behind them, not under them, not over them, on them.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
By that definition, the JJ-prise is both 366 meters and 725 meters long, because it appeared on screen as both sizes. What size do you accept as correct?
I accept it's a situation as with the Defiant where there are conflicting figures. In the end I accept the size the the most substantiation. For the Defiant that's ~150m and for the AR Constitution it's ~360m. There will always be scenes that contradict those sizes, but the majority of the evidence settles on one.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
I was using Romulans as an example. It could have been Tellarites, Andorians, Ferengi, Rigelians, Betazed, or some other known Prime Universe alien race. As long as the Kelvin Universe version looks different enough from the original version and can't be explained through a hairless breed that existed in the Prime Universe, but we have never seen there.
As I said... You live by a much stricter set of self-imposed rules, than many of the rest of us do.
It's OK though.., I enjoy Star Trek just as much as I'm sure you do...,
I just choose NOT to Limit my enjoyment only to what I can actually SEE.
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
I have no such impositions on my headcanon. There's lots of things about ST I belive that are completely unsubstantiated. Khan and Harrison being different people for one. ENT and TAR forming a completely separate QR to the rest of ST for another. I just have no illusions about what is canon and what is not.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
This. And if they ARE different people, where did all the cryotubes with augments inside come from?
Sigh. I said headcanon. And since when have I cared about this 'supplementary material' (read, non-canon material)?
Besides, no it doesn't. There is plenty of room for Khan and Harrison to be different people. Who was the only person in the entire film to use Khan's full name? Spock Prime. Had Spock Prime seen or heard anything other than the name Khan? No. Is it possible there are two Augments named Khan? Well obviously.
I'm not arguing they are different people for anybody other than myself to tidy up a small complaint I have with ID. I'm certainly not trying to pretend it's canon as with people conflating Caitians with random aliens.
Eh? The Botany Bay has more than Khan onboard.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Right, it's the really classic 'this was never the Prime timeline, just something that looked similar' citation.
I'd love to see what they were up to - maybe the Klingons started raiding them using the Narada as a justification.
Member Access Denied Armada!
My forum single-issue of rage: Make the Proton Experimental Weapon go for subsystem targetting!
That quote is five days old, and my opinion has evolved significantly since then, which you'll find if you read more than just the first page. I also never claimed any of what I said in that quote was fact or what I believed to be the case, only that at the time i thought it was fun to think about because of the interesting possibilities that it would open up. I find my new theory far more interesting though.
There are a number of invertebrates on Earth which use a copper-based molecule known as hemocyanin for oxygen transport.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hemocyanin