The color of the ramscoops never made a difference to me. I'm going to go paint my ships ramscoops purple now.
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
The information is overwhelming and indisputable, the time line changed with the Kelvin not before.
No it isn't, not even close. It did change before, we've seen proof of that. Explain the odd behavior of several characters, explain the appearance of the klingons, explain the uniforms, both in kirks time and his fathers.
It was an alternate universe to begin with, which means something HAD to be different in order for it to exist. From there it was altered further by the kelvin incident. If it were simply a temporal issue it would have resulted in major changes to the existing timeline, which clearly isn't the case. Case in point? Vulcan still exists in STO, which is explicitly stated to take place in the prime timeline. The game is not canon but the timeline it is based on is.
That was released by Paramount, it's official. They even call it the "Kelvin Timeline" which tells you right there when the split occurred.
No, it isn't official. It also clearly says 'star trek online' right on the image, which means it is in regards to this game and is therefore neither canon nor official by definition
Actually one of the devs said the name came from CBS
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Well if you ever watch TOS it is very clear thet KT and TOS/ENT/DS9/TNG/VOY timelines were split long before the JJ films. In TOS Admiral Pike is crippled long before Kirk takes command of the Grand Lady. IN KT he is not crippled until he is tortured on the Narada. The models on the desk except for the NX are different then what we have grown accountomed to being prime universe. I feel that the incident with the Hobus explosion and all were not the cause of the split but the energy involved opened a rift between the universes where bleed through has occurred.
[quote="ssbn655;12972442"]Well if you ever watch TOS it is very clear thet KT and TOS/ENT/DS9/TNG/VOY timelines were split long before the JJ films. In TOS Admiral Pike is crippled long before Kirk takes command of the Grand Lady. IN KT he is not crippled until he is tortured on the Narada. The models on the desk except for the NX are different then what we have grown accountomed to being prime universe. I feel that the incident with the Hobus explosion and all were not the cause of the split but the energy involved opened a rift between the universes where bleed through has occurred.[/quote]
Well of course the models are different after the NX. It's an alternate reality/timeline. Things will happen differently.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
That's the U.S.S. Franklin, a precursor to the NX-01 that was the first Starfleet ship to achieve Warp 4.
I have no idea why the nacelles are blue though since that's a post-Kelvin destruction thing ...
I'm not a JJ verse hater, but even I have to say that these kinds of details to canon and lore are completely irrelevant to the developers of the movie...
They have shown already in previous films that they do not concern themselves with any kind of established canon.
Also, copyright issues, since the movie is a separate franchise from any kind of TV series in a way. CBS and Paramount hold different parts of the license and for a "Enterprise" style ship to apear on the big screen CBS would need to be incorporated into financial negociations.
[quote="baudl;12972464"][quote="evilmark444;12972006"]That's the U.S.S. Franklin, a precursor to the NX-01 that was the first Starfleet ship to achieve Warp 4.
I have no idea why the nacelles are blue though since that's a post-Kelvin destruction thing ...[/quote]
I'm not a JJ verse hater, but even I have to say that these kinds of details to canon and lore are completely irrelevant to the developers of the movie... They have shown already in previous films that they do not concern themselves with any kind of established canon. Also, copyright issues, since the movie is a separate franchise from any kind of TV series in a way. CBS and Paramount hold different parts of the license and for a "Enterprise" style ship to apear on the big screen CBS would need to be incorporated into financial negociations.[/quote]
The previous two films did show concern for Canon by putting the setting in the AR or KT. And it's obvious they each get permission from each other to use various things. Lastly how do you know the Franklin didn't predate the NX. We don't know. We will find out though.
No, it isn't official. It also clearly says 'star trek online' right on the image, which means it is in regards to this game and is therefore neither canon nor official by definition
Sorry to break it to you, but the game is a licensed product, and is considered canon by CBS rather any of us like it or not.
Just because you don't like something doesn't make it any less true.
No, it isn't official. It also clearly says 'star trek online' right on the image, which means it is in regards to this game and is therefore neither canon nor official by definition
Sorry to break it to you, but the game is a licensed product, and is considered canon by CBS rather any of us like it or not.
Just because you don't like something doesn't make it any less true.
No, it isn't official. It also clearly says 'star trek online' right on the image, which means it is in regards to this game and is therefore neither canon nor official by definition
Sorry to break it to you, but the game is a licensed product, and is considered canon by CBS rather any of us like it or not.
Just because you don't like something doesn't make it any less true.
Unless they at some point mention something from STO on screen, nothing in this game will ever be canon, because by definition canon only includes the shows and movies.
Lets look at the video of the Kelvin. Going by the video of it in action at the start of the movie. Its save to say they landed into a different universe all together. Not just going back into time with the "Prime time line". They went into a different place and time totally different.
Now lets see how this conclusion comes about.
The video shows the Kelvin in action. Where this ship is supposed to be much older than than both Prime and JJ Enterprises. Also going by this you should see some stuff from the TOS series which set the Prime Universe. Since its just a few decades older. I'm going to pick it apart showing proof.
Uniforms - They look lot different and more detailed than the older TOS series. Even in Pike's time on the Enterprise which was before Kirk showed the uniforms are similar. Thus this makes a different Universe as JJ Trek has a different type of uniform being used.
Kelvin - Here is where it really shows. The Saucer shares some similitaries of the Connie Refit from TMP. It shows blue lines in the saucer rim. This didn't come out until the TMP. As the original Connie didn't have this during the TOS run. Even in Pike's Enterprise it didn't share this look. So that automatic puts it out of place for being older. Next which a big proof is the Navigational Deflector on the top of the ship. Part of their version of a Stardrive. It glows blue! No ship in TOS era used a glowing Deflector. All of theirs looked like a regular dish. It wasn't until the TMP that it even glowed. However going by TMP, even that time it glowed brown. Not until like TWOK where it started showing blue coloring. And much later it stayed blue for the Enterprise-A. Going by the Deflector alone shows its not even part of the Prime Universe even before Nero encountered the ship. As it would share lot more of the TOS ship designs if it was. Lastly is the phasers. Also during the TOS they was blue at that time. Not the red they was showing. Even later phasers was a orange/red color not red. Also showing this is not from the Prime Universe. Lastly during the suicide run on Nero. You see the back of the nacelle open up and glow more to push the ship forward. This part is also not part of the Prime Universe. As there never been a ship to use that type of nacelle technology in the Prime Universe.
So there is your proof. Spock and Nero went back in time to another Universe completely. And is not even a part of the Prime Universe.
Well if you ever watch TOS it is very clear thet KT and TOS/ENT/DS9/TNG/VOY timelines were split long before the JJ films. In TOS Admiral Pike is crippled long before Kirk takes command of the Grand Lady. IN KT he is not crippled until he is tortured on the Narada. The models on the desk except for the NX are different then what we have grown accountomed to being prime universe. I feel that the incident with the Hobus explosion and all were not the cause of the split but the energy involved opened a rift between the universes where bleed through has occurred.
In the Prime timeline, Kirk didn't take command of Enterprise until well into his career, over a decade later than in the KTverse. As a lieutenant, for instance, he served aboard the Farragut, and years later blamed himself for the gas-creature invading the ship and killing most of his shipmates (he thought he'd delayed firing phasers too long; only when Enterprise encountered the same thing did he learn that the creature was immune to phasers). Pike was injured during a mission which didn't happen in the KTverse, because Kirk took the ship "early".
The models are different because in the Prime timeline, we had no visuals of ships between the NX and the Constitution-class - and in fact the Connies were the only Fed ships we saw in TOS. And from the Kelvin incident forward, the KTverse Starfleet's design philosophy was far more militarily-oriented than the Prime version.
As for the ramscoop colors, perhaps the blue version was used in the Prime timeline only on the old Franklin-class ships for technical reasons (more expensive, perhaps?), then abandoned by the time the Warp 5 Project left the drawing board.
0
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,723Community Moderator
Uniforms - They look lot different and more detailed than the older TOS series. Even in Pike's time on the Enterprise which was before Kirk showed the uniforms are similar. Thus this makes a different Universe as JJ Trek has a different type of uniform being used.
We don't know what the uniforms from the 2230s look like. So that argument kinda goes out the window. Uniform detail doesn't work as an argument because 2150s Enterprise era uniforms were more detailed than TOS era uniforms, and they are at least 100 years older than the classic TOS uniforms. The 2230s unforms on the Kelvin are at least 20 years older than the classic TOS uniforms, and we know how quickly styles change thanks to the Four TNG era uniforms we know. TNG s1, TNG, DS9/Voyager, First Contact style.
Kelvin - Here is where it really shows. The Saucer shares some similitaries of the Connie Refit from TMP. It shows blue lines in the saucer rim. This didn't come out until the TMP. As the original Connie didn't have this during the TOS run. Even in Pike's Enterprise it didn't share this look. So that automatic puts it out of place for being older. Next which a big proof is the Navigational Deflector on the top of the ship. Part of their version of a Stardrive. It glows blue! No ship in TOS era used a glowing Deflector. All of theirs looked like a regular dish. It wasn't until the TMP that it even glowed. However going by TMP, even that time it glowed brown. Not until like TWOK where it started showing blue coloring. And much later it stayed blue for the Enterprise-A. Going by the Deflector alone shows its not even part of the Prime Universe even before Nero encountered the ship. As it would share lot more of the TOS ship designs if it was. Lastly is the phasers. Also during the TOS they was blue at that time. Not the red they was showing. Even later phasers was a orange/red color not red. Also showing this is not from the Prime Universe. Lastly during the suicide run on Nero. You see the back of the nacelle open up and glow more to push the ship forward. This part is also not part of the Prime Universe. As there never been a ship to use that type of nacelle technology in the Prime Universe.
Again... not an argument because ship designs change. The NX had a blue glow behind the Dish, and she was 100 years older, and even had blue glowing warp field grills on her nacelles, something that is absent in TOS through to TMP eras. The blue lines on the saucer rim? Detailing that they may have brought back later on, and again, on a ship AT LEAST 20 something years older than the USS Enterprise. Also the Kelvin is pre TOS era. And the TMP Deflector wasn't even a satellite dish style like on TOS. And the phasers were not ALWAYS blue in TOS. They changed color quite a bit in TOS. May have been standardized in the remastered with the CG ships, but again, we're talking a ship at least 20 years older.
The Kamikaze run... I did have a problem with that as that was the warp nacelle. Not the Impulse Engine. But I don't nitpick that. George Kirk could have rerouted power to build up speed and used the warp nacelle. Not only that... AGAIN older ship.
So there is your proof. Spock and Nero went back in time to another Universe completely. And is not even a part of the Prime Universe.
Not really proof. You're constantly judging a ship that was built at least 20 years BEFORE TOS against TOS era designs. That would be like comparing a pre-refit Connie against the Excelsior and saying that she's from another universe originally because the design is totally different.
As for Pike... we don't know when he was injured originally, but if it was at some point in the Prime Universe AFTER 2233, which I believe the original Pilot portrayed him as being perfectly fine and was after 2233... its entirely possible that Pike never suffered that injury because of the change in the timeline.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
Well if you ever watch TOS it is very clear thet KT and TOS/ENT/DS9/TNG/VOY timelines were split long before the JJ films. In TOS Admiral Pike is crippled long before Kirk takes command of the Grand Lady. IN KT he is not crippled until he is tortured on the Narada. The models on the desk except for the NX are different then what we have grown accountomed to being prime universe. I feel that the incident with the Hobus explosion and all were not the cause of the split but the energy involved opened a rift between the universes where bleed through has occurred.
Actually, Pike wasn't even crippled in the AR either. It shows him in a wheelchair at the end of 09, but then in ID he is up walking around again.
I really don't see the problem with the designs. NX-Alpha - Emmette/Warp Delta - Franklin - NX (NV and NC) - Kelvin (Newton, Mayflower, and Armstrong) - AR Constitution - Dreadnought.
The change from red ramscoops to blue is nothing, the addition of an open windscreen is nothing, it's still a clear and logical evolution of design.
Far more so than the apparent NX - Constitution - Refit - Etc. that existed before.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
Far more so than the apparent NX - Constitution - Refit - Etc. that existed before.
you never saw the NX-Refit models did you?
I have, it's not canon. And grafting a secondary hull onto an NX doesn't allow for a smooth evolution into the Constitution.
Grey hull with minimal detailing vs. bare metal with greebles. Bronze deflector (or communication dish as it was then) vs. a blue, backlit deflector. Blue, fixed point phasers vs. orange/red turret/cannons. Modern style corridors and other rooms vs. primary coloured cardboard. Buttons, switches and k.nobs vs. jellybeans. Combat and flight manoeuvrability vs. sitting still and shooting.
The NX and Kelvin could never be predecessors to the TOS Constitution in any way.
Edit: K.N.O.B.S!!! Really!??!
Post edited by artan42 on
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,723Community Moderator
edited June 2016
The NX Refit would have become canon if we got Enterprise season 5. Adding a secondary hull might have meant improved power capabilities for the NX going into the Earth-Romulan War.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
Came up with an explanation for the blue ram scoops that I can live with. I will now expect all JJ-verse ships to use that aesthetic, like a visual cue so we can tell which universe we are looking at.
I GOT IT! Because of Nero's damage, multiple future time travel events from the Prime Universe (such as First Contact, and if you want to include STO then the Iconian time travel stuff) never happened, which lead to the pre-Kelvin changes. Perhaps even the Temporal Cold War had a different outcome, or just never happened at all.
Essentially, changes to the future also impacted the past, by changing or eliminating expected temporal violations.
So because the Bussard collectors on one single ship use a different color paint than other ships BELONGING TO DIFFERENT ORGANIZATIONS, you idiots think it signifies a preexisting alternate timeline?
Take a look at a Klingon or Romulan ship, or the TMP Enterprise. They don't even HAVE visible ramscoops. And speaking of Klingons? Quite simply, J.J. Abrams has more respect for classic Trek than you're giving him credit for: Roddenberry explicitly said the Klingons ALWAYS had ridges in his head but they didn't have enough money for makeup. Abrams is staying true to TOS at ENT's expense, which is laudable IMHO.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
So because the Bussard collectors on one single ship use a different color paint than other ships BELONGING TO DIFFERENT ORGANIZATIONS, you idiots think it signifies a preexisting alternate timeline?
Take a look at a Klingon or Romulan ship, or the TMP Enterprise. They don't even HAVE visible ramscoops. And speaking of Klingons? Quite simply, J.J. Abrams has more respect for classic Trek than you're giving him credit for: Roddenberry explicitly said the Klingons ALWAYS had ridges in his head but they didn't have enough money for makeup. Abrams is staying true to TOS at ENT's expense, which is laudable IMHO.
First, I never said it WAS a pre-existing alternate reality, only that there was nothing stopping the writers from making a retcon like that, and that I found the possibilities of that interesting. I also said the ram scoops annoyed me.
Second, as I laid out in my last post, it's entirely possible for Nero's arrival to impact events that happened BEFORE he arrived, because certain Prime Universe events that changed the past may never happen, or may happen differently. The crew of the Enterprise may never take a BoP back in time to save a whale, and therefore Scotty may not teach that one guy how to make stronger glass before it was invented. First Contact may never happen, so the Borg wouldn't have killed numerous people in Montana, or any of the people killed during Regeneration. Finally, the destruction of Vulcan could ultimately result in the Temporal Cold War either not happening, or having a different outcome, which could have major implications on the past, particularly during the Enterprise era.
The present, as depicted in the Prime Universe, has already been heavily influenced by changes made to the past, changes Nero's actions could have easily altered. So no, I no longer think it possible that the JJ-verse was a pre-existing alternate reality, but rather a timeline that was even more heavily influenced by Nero's arrival than we thought.
So because the Bussard collectors on one single ship use a different color paint than other ships BELONGING TO DIFFERENT ORGANIZATIONS, you idiots think it signifies a preexisting alternate timeline?
Take a look at a Klingon or Romulan ship, or the TMP Enterprise. They don't even HAVE visible ramscoops. And speaking of Klingons? Quite simply, J.J. Abrams has more respect for classic Trek than you're giving him credit for: Roddenberry explicitly said the Klingons ALWAYS had ridges in his head but they didn't have enough money for makeup. Abrams is staying true to TOS at ENT's expense, which is laudable IMHO.
It's not even at ENT expense. It's never even been implied that ALL Klingons suffered from the virus.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
So because the Bussard collectors on one single ship use a different color paint than other ships BELONGING TO DIFFERENT ORGANIZATIONS, you idiots think it signifies a preexisting alternate timeline?
Take a look at a Klingon or Romulan ship, or the TMP Enterprise. They don't even HAVE visible ramscoops. And speaking of Klingons? Quite simply, J.J. Abrams has more respect for classic Trek than you're giving him credit for: Roddenberry explicitly said the Klingons ALWAYS had ridges in his head but they didn't have enough money for makeup. Abrams is staying true to TOS at ENT's expense, which is laudable IMHO.
It's not even at ENT expense. It's never even been implied that ALL Klingons suffered from the virus.
Well, it was kind of implied, but never outright stated. In John M. Ford's classic novel The Final Reflection, the Klingons we saw were ridgeless because the Klingons, in an effort to understand the races living next to them, would create genetic "fusions", in order to have a version of the alien that is infused with klin, the warrior spirit (they got a little mystical about that). Said fusions would then be employed patrolling the space bordering with that race. (One imagines that in Ford's version, the Klingon-Romulan border was patrolled by warriors with pronounced forehead ridges and slightly-pointed ears.)
So because the Bussard collectors on one single ship use a different color paint than other ships BELONGING TO DIFFERENT ORGANIZATIONS, you idiots think it signifies a preexisting alternate timeline?
Take a look at a Klingon or Romulan ship, or the TMP Enterprise. They don't even HAVE visible ramscoops. And speaking of Klingons? Quite simply, J.J. Abrams has more respect for classic Trek than you're giving him credit for: Roddenberry explicitly said the Klingons ALWAYS had ridges in his head but they didn't have enough money for makeup. Abrams is staying true to TOS at ENT's expense, which is laudable IMHO.
It's not even at ENT expense. It's never even been implied that ALL Klingons suffered from the virus.
Well, it was kind of implied, but never outright stated. In John M. Ford's classic novel The Final Reflection, the Klingons we saw were ridgeless because the Klingons, in an effort to understand the races living next to them, would create genetic "fusions", in order to have a version of the alien that is infused with klin, the warrior spirit (they got a little mystical about that). Said fusions would then be employed patrolling the space bordering with that race. (One imagines that in Ford's version, the Klingon-Romulan border was patrolled by warriors with pronounced forehead ridges and slightly-pointed ears.)
let us hope the empire never gets a border with tholians or gorn then eh?
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
the klingon empire, if you go by SFC and KA, already shared borders with the gorn and tholians
no idea who they shared borders with in canon, though, other than the federation and romulans
I do NOT want to see a klink-tholian hybrid then
Probably impossible. The only reason humanoid crossbreeds are even remotely plausible* is because of the panspermia thing by the Preservers (which reduces real biologists to tears), and they're all carbon-based endoskeletal vertebrates. Tholians aren't even in the same phylum: they're silicon-based, exoskeletal, and native to Class Y deathworlds when all the known humanoids come from at least marginally Class M planets.
*I can sort of buy a Bajoran/human or human/Klingon crossbreed since they're all oxygen-breathing hominids with iron-based blood, but by rights a Bajoran isn't even in the same taxonomical class as a Cardassian (c.f. Tora Ziyal: placental mammal versus reptomammal), and the idea of a human being able to carry a copper-blooded life form of any sort to term (Spock, Sela) is ridiculous (and in fact TOS originally mentioned that medical intervention was required for Spock).
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Comments
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
No it isn't, not even close. It did change before, we've seen proof of that. Explain the odd behavior of several characters, explain the appearance of the klingons, explain the uniforms, both in kirks time and his fathers.
It was an alternate universe to begin with, which means something HAD to be different in order for it to exist. From there it was altered further by the kelvin incident. If it were simply a temporal issue it would have resulted in major changes to the existing timeline, which clearly isn't the case. Case in point? Vulcan still exists in STO, which is explicitly stated to take place in the prime timeline. The game is not canon but the timeline it is based on is.
No, it isn't official. It also clearly says 'star trek online' right on the image, which means it is in regards to this game and is therefore neither canon nor official by definition
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Well of course the models are different after the NX. It's an alternate reality/timeline. Things will happen differently.
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Member: Team Trekyards. Visit Trekyards today!
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
I'm not a JJ verse hater, but even I have to say that these kinds of details to canon and lore are completely irrelevant to the developers of the movie...
They have shown already in previous films that they do not concern themselves with any kind of established canon.
Also, copyright issues, since the movie is a separate franchise from any kind of TV series in a way. CBS and Paramount hold different parts of the license and for a "Enterprise" style ship to apear on the big screen CBS would need to be incorporated into financial negociations.
I have no idea why the nacelles are blue though since that's a post-Kelvin destruction thing ...[/quote]
I'm not a JJ verse hater, but even I have to say that these kinds of details to canon and lore are completely irrelevant to the developers of the movie...
They have shown already in previous films that they do not concern themselves with any kind of established canon.
Also, copyright issues, since the movie is a separate franchise from any kind of TV series in a way. CBS and Paramount hold different parts of the license and for a "Enterprise" style ship to apear on the big screen CBS would need to be incorporated into financial negociations.[/quote]
The previous two films did show concern for Canon by putting the setting in the AR or KT. And it's obvious they each get permission from each other to use various things. Lastly how do you know the Franklin didn't predate the NX. We don't know. We will find out though.
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Sorry to break it to you, but the game is a licensed product, and is considered canon by CBS rather any of us like it or not.
Just because you don't like something doesn't make it any less true.
lolwut? Video games are NEVER canon in Trek
Unless they at some point mention something from STO on screen, nothing in this game will ever be canon, because by definition canon only includes the shows and movies.
Lets look at the video of the Kelvin. Going by the video of it in action at the start of the movie. Its save to say they landed into a different universe all together. Not just going back into time with the "Prime time line". They went into a different place and time totally different.
Now lets see how this conclusion comes about.
The video shows the Kelvin in action. Where this ship is supposed to be much older than than both Prime and JJ Enterprises. Also going by this you should see some stuff from the TOS series which set the Prime Universe. Since its just a few decades older. I'm going to pick it apart showing proof.
Uniforms - They look lot different and more detailed than the older TOS series. Even in Pike's time on the Enterprise which was before Kirk showed the uniforms are similar. Thus this makes a different Universe as JJ Trek has a different type of uniform being used.
Kelvin - Here is where it really shows. The Saucer shares some similitaries of the Connie Refit from TMP. It shows blue lines in the saucer rim. This didn't come out until the TMP. As the original Connie didn't have this during the TOS run. Even in Pike's Enterprise it didn't share this look. So that automatic puts it out of place for being older. Next which a big proof is the Navigational Deflector on the top of the ship. Part of their version of a Stardrive. It glows blue! No ship in TOS era used a glowing Deflector. All of theirs looked like a regular dish. It wasn't until the TMP that it even glowed. However going by TMP, even that time it glowed brown. Not until like TWOK where it started showing blue coloring. And much later it stayed blue for the Enterprise-A. Going by the Deflector alone shows its not even part of the Prime Universe even before Nero encountered the ship. As it would share lot more of the TOS ship designs if it was. Lastly is the phasers. Also during the TOS they was blue at that time. Not the red they was showing. Even later phasers was a orange/red color not red. Also showing this is not from the Prime Universe. Lastly during the suicide run on Nero. You see the back of the nacelle open up and glow more to push the ship forward. This part is also not part of the Prime Universe. As there never been a ship to use that type of nacelle technology in the Prime Universe.
So there is your proof. Spock and Nero went back in time to another Universe completely. And is not even a part of the Prime Universe.
https://video.search.yahoo.com/yhs/search;_ylt=A0LEVvQObGxXwVwAWAknnIlQ?p=star+trek+2009+kelvin&fr=yhs-mozilla-003&fr2=piv-web&hspart=mozilla&hsimp=yhs-003#id=4&vid=6fc961dbe587a9d705319b320de691c3&action=view
https://video.search.yahoo.com/yhs/search;_ylt=A0LEVvQObGxXwVwAWAknnIlQ?p=star+trek+2009+kelvin&fr=yhs-mozilla-003&fr2=piv-web&hspart=mozilla&hsimp=yhs-003#id=3&vid=2a8edbb711b165eff4001dd6b24cece0&action=view
Pic of the front showing the glowing Deflector.
http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/USS_Kelvin?file=USS_Kelvin.jpg
They can later come out and say it is, but the proof is in the video. It will never be part of the Prime Universe.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
The models are different because in the Prime timeline, we had no visuals of ships between the NX and the Constitution-class - and in fact the Connies were the only Fed ships we saw in TOS. And from the Kelvin incident forward, the KTverse Starfleet's design philosophy was far more militarily-oriented than the Prime version.
As for the ramscoop colors, perhaps the blue version was used in the Prime timeline only on the old Franklin-class ships for technical reasons (more expensive, perhaps?), then abandoned by the time the Warp 5 Project left the drawing board.
We don't know what the uniforms from the 2230s look like. So that argument kinda goes out the window. Uniform detail doesn't work as an argument because 2150s Enterprise era uniforms were more detailed than TOS era uniforms, and they are at least 100 years older than the classic TOS uniforms. The 2230s unforms on the Kelvin are at least 20 years older than the classic TOS uniforms, and we know how quickly styles change thanks to the Four TNG era uniforms we know. TNG s1, TNG, DS9/Voyager, First Contact style.
Again... not an argument because ship designs change. The NX had a blue glow behind the Dish, and she was 100 years older, and even had blue glowing warp field grills on her nacelles, something that is absent in TOS through to TMP eras. The blue lines on the saucer rim? Detailing that they may have brought back later on, and again, on a ship AT LEAST 20 something years older than the USS Enterprise. Also the Kelvin is pre TOS era. And the TMP Deflector wasn't even a satellite dish style like on TOS. And the phasers were not ALWAYS blue in TOS. They changed color quite a bit in TOS. May have been standardized in the remastered with the CG ships, but again, we're talking a ship at least 20 years older.
The Kamikaze run... I did have a problem with that as that was the warp nacelle. Not the Impulse Engine. But I don't nitpick that. George Kirk could have rerouted power to build up speed and used the warp nacelle. Not only that... AGAIN older ship.
Not really proof. You're constantly judging a ship that was built at least 20 years BEFORE TOS against TOS era designs. That would be like comparing a pre-refit Connie against the Excelsior and saying that she's from another universe originally because the design is totally different.
As for Pike... we don't know when he was injured originally, but if it was at some point in the Prime Universe AFTER 2233, which I believe the original Pilot portrayed him as being perfectly fine and was after 2233... its entirely possible that Pike never suffered that injury because of the change in the timeline.
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Actually, Pike wasn't even crippled in the AR either. It shows him in a wheelchair at the end of 09, but then in ID he is up walking around again.
The change from red ramscoops to blue is nothing, the addition of an open windscreen is nothing, it's still a clear and logical evolution of design.
Far more so than the apparent NX - Constitution - Refit - Etc. that existed before.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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you never saw the NX-Refit models did you?
Might not be counting that as it wasn't seen on screen.
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I have, it's not canon. And grafting a secondary hull onto an NX doesn't allow for a smooth evolution into the Constitution.
Grey hull with minimal detailing vs. bare metal with greebles. Bronze deflector (or communication dish as it was then) vs. a blue, backlit deflector. Blue, fixed point phasers vs. orange/red turret/cannons. Modern style corridors and other rooms vs. primary coloured cardboard. Buttons, switches and k.nobs vs. jellybeans. Combat and flight manoeuvrability vs. sitting still and shooting.
The NX and Kelvin could never be predecessors to the TOS Constitution in any way.
Edit: K.N.O.B.S!!! Really!??!
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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Take a look at a Klingon or Romulan ship, or the TMP Enterprise. They don't even HAVE visible ramscoops. And speaking of Klingons? Quite simply, J.J. Abrams has more respect for classic Trek than you're giving him credit for: Roddenberry explicitly said the Klingons ALWAYS had ridges in his head but they didn't have enough money for makeup. Abrams is staying true to TOS at ENT's expense, which is laudable IMHO.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
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First, I never said it WAS a pre-existing alternate reality, only that there was nothing stopping the writers from making a retcon like that, and that I found the possibilities of that interesting. I also said the ram scoops annoyed me.
Second, as I laid out in my last post, it's entirely possible for Nero's arrival to impact events that happened BEFORE he arrived, because certain Prime Universe events that changed the past may never happen, or may happen differently. The crew of the Enterprise may never take a BoP back in time to save a whale, and therefore Scotty may not teach that one guy how to make stronger glass before it was invented. First Contact may never happen, so the Borg wouldn't have killed numerous people in Montana, or any of the people killed during Regeneration. Finally, the destruction of Vulcan could ultimately result in the Temporal Cold War either not happening, or having a different outcome, which could have major implications on the past, particularly during the Enterprise era.
The present, as depicted in the Prime Universe, has already been heavily influenced by changes made to the past, changes Nero's actions could have easily altered. So no, I no longer think it possible that the JJ-verse was a pre-existing alternate reality, but rather a timeline that was even more heavily influenced by Nero's arrival than we thought.
It's not even at ENT expense. It's never even been implied that ALL Klingons suffered from the virus.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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let us hope the empire never gets a border with tholians or gorn then eh?
no idea who they shared borders with in canon, though, other than the federation and romulans
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
I do NOT want to see a klink-tholian hybrid then
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Probably impossible. The only reason humanoid crossbreeds are even remotely plausible* is because of the panspermia thing by the Preservers (which reduces real biologists to tears), and they're all carbon-based endoskeletal vertebrates. Tholians aren't even in the same phylum: they're silicon-based, exoskeletal, and native to Class Y deathworlds when all the known humanoids come from at least marginally Class M planets.
*I can sort of buy a Bajoran/human or human/Klingon crossbreed since they're all oxygen-breathing hominids with iron-based blood, but by rights a Bajoran isn't even in the same taxonomical class as a Cardassian (c.f. Tora Ziyal: placental mammal versus reptomammal), and the idea of a human being able to carry a copper-blooded life form of any sort to term (Spock, Sela) is ridiculous (and in fact TOS originally mentioned that medical intervention was required for Spock).
— Sabaton, "Great War"
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