It's a player driven market. Enough people are willing to pay high sums for dilithium, and unless something happens to change that the prices will not go down. Forum users are a small portion of the in game population, even if you did boycott, enough people may continue to fuel the prices.
The only solution I have for you is to consider setting aside $10 or so and making a killing on the market yourself. Yes, it defeats the purpose and principle, but you help fund the game at least!
OP i can appreciate the sentiment and i am anything but happy with the extremely high dilithium exchange rates.
Having said that, there are several topics about this already and this one serves no purpose other than to clutter the forum.
Judging from the great responses, I would say this isn't clutter at all..just a suggestion, and I do appreciate the feedback, but if you think a post is clutter, then just move on, and I don't really see anything calling for the right cure, a boycott, pure and simple..Thanks!
Heres another great response, "you" boycott it.
My 500 zen stip every month has already capped out two characters in upgrades.
I couldn't care less what you do with your stip, or if you don't get one.
By all means carry on with your political campaign.
I have played since beta, and whats arrogant is someone assuming just because we want fair market value, I am a freeloader..I'll bet you 100 bucks worth of ZEN I have spent more than you, want to lose a 100 bucks big mouth?
The price that zen goes for is definitionally a fair market price - it is the price that, by their behavior, both zen sellers and dilithium traders have agreed is fair - the price set by the market. It might not be the price you want, or the price that makes you happy, but it is definitionally the fair market price.
After all, trading is still happening, briskly.
You are 100% incorrect in your interpretation...I do not claim to set fair market price, but a 10% rise in DIL for zen in less than 24 hours is not fair market value, it's hyperinflation cause by people gouging the players and players responding by paying that amount, thus a boycott..had you read my comment, which obviously you did not, my first sentence states that prices will go up, but again over 10% in one day is hyperinflation/market manipulation
I haven't used the dil exchange in over a year. And I don't intend to as long as prices are that unreasonable.
And what would be a reasonable price?
Basically, this is telling others to sell their Zen cheaper. I think that's slightly arrogant. And somewhat unreasonable if it's coming from people who do not wish to spend money on the game themselves.
I have played since beta, and whats arrogant is someone assuming just because we want fair market value, I am a freeloader..I'll bet you 100 bucks worth of ZEN I have spent more than you, want to lose a 100 bucks big mouth?
You should have posted more in all that time.
You just cant seem to get anything right, maybe I post under another account? hmm, could be..maybe you should think less and listen/read more, you will learn something, being a constant troll will serve only to keep you ignorant
I haven't used the dil exchange in over a year. And I don't intend to as long as prices are that unreasonable.
And what would be a reasonable price?
Basically, this is telling others to sell their Zen cheaper. I think that's slightly arrogant. And somewhat unreasonable if it's coming from people who do not wish to spend money on the game themselves.
I have played since beta, and whats arrogant is someone assuming just because we want fair market value, I am a freeloader..I'll bet you 100 bucks worth of ZEN I have spent more than you, want to lose a 100 bucks big mouth?
You should have posted more in all that time.
You just cant seem to get anything right, maybe I post under another account? hmm, could be..maybe you should think less and listen/read more, you will learn something, being a constant troll will serve only to keep you ignorant
I already assumed you had another account you're protecting. Or were circumventing a ban.
Funny... a call to influence others people's behaviour (made by a wannabe revolutionary leader so it seems) and slandering and calling names of everyone who dares to sell his Zen at a price he prefers, a title that ends with an exclamation mark and I'm 'mister big mouth'.
Nowhere in my original post did I call anyone anything, or influence anyone...over 10% rise in DIL exchange prices in less than 24 hours is uncalled for, in any market...and yes I called him a big mouth after he assumed I was a free loader...so, I'll tell you what I told someone else; maybe if you read/listen more, instead of just trolling to be a troll, will serve you much better
Answering these 12 year old trolls is like my cat batting around a cat toy, initially amusing but eventually boring...troll away, it is as expected, but for some of us who care about this game and community, well, there's lots of great input on this post and I think everyone who decided to grow up and add some great input..Thanks, have a great day
Answering these 12 year old trolls is like my cat batting around a cat toy, initially amusing but eventually boring...troll away, it is as expected, but for some of us who care about this game and community, well, there's lots of great input on this post and I think everyone who decided to grow up and add some great input..Thanks, have a great day
If you cared about the game in all this time, you'd have posted more. There have been some useful ideas happening on the forum before that you had no involvement in. Yet you expect investment in your idea? Hubris, man.
Oh people have provided a lot of input. Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean it's not there.
But of course it's easier to just call other people trolls and blatantly lie about your own statements (yes, you did call people greedy no matter how much you try to deny it) than accept that your own view may be based on... well, nothing. At least not a sufficient understanding of basic economics.
You are 100% incorrect in your interpretation...I do not claim to set fair market price, but a 10% rise in DIL for zen in less than 24 hours is not fair market value, it's hyperinflation cause by people gouging the players and players responding by paying that amount, thus a boycott..had you read my comment, which obviously you did not, my first sentence states that prices will go up, but again over 10% in one day is hyperinflation/market manipulation
Ehm, yes, it is a strong loss of value of dil. It is not inflation (that would be dil prices for goods), but that's just a technicality. It is almost certainly not much market manipulation going on. First, I doubt that there is a cartel influential enough to do that - they would need to buy all the cheaper zen non cartel profiteers put on the market to keep prices high. That's hundreds of dollars per day. And more importantly, the extreme market fluctuations in the last week (not only the dil-ex, look at the ec-ex) have an in-game reason, called "infinity lockbox", which is so much better than any lockbox before that people are trying to grab all the keys they can, which means they need zen (or ec to pay those with zen).
Infinity lockbox will be gone next week, and then the market will probably settle. Higher than before, lower than now.
But anyway, what is a "boycott"? You cannot boycott zen sellers as accounts, since you don't know who they are. So the only thing you can do is not buy zen because you find it too expensive. Not buying something because it is too expensive is not a boycott, but completely normal market behavior. But if others do not think it too expensive, you can't force them to stop. And you'd have no right to tell them to.
My mother was an epohh and my father smelled of tulaberries
I have to say, even if - for the sake of argument, everyone in this thread took this seriously..... so what?
It's a pretty well established fact that the entire number of frequent posters on these forums make up a VERY small percentage of the overall playerbase.
How dare you introduce a rational argument into this thread!
Look, I get it...prices do rise, it happens, but...
DIL went from 425 a zen to the 470's in one day, thats ridiculous, greedy, and wrong. Oldest trick in the book, raise prices, get people used to paying more, then people wont complain when the new norm is 450+ a zen for DIL, but where will it end? It will just keep going up and up unless we do something, and do something NOW!
Don't let them get away with it!
Ok, moron, lets get this straight. The price is going up because DIL SELLERS WANT TO GET ZENI FASTER THAN OTHER DIL SELLERS. You are the only THEM in play here and your side of the bargaining table is doing this to themselves.
Zen sellers are not the cause of this. Do you think they all banded together to stop buying Dil and drive the price up? No. Obviously not. They are getting swamped by Dil Farmers' lust for Zeni with a new super lock box and a massive sale today. Their only morally reprehensible crime is not throwing real money at the game a fast as pink mud-coin farmers are chiseling dilithium out of it.
Look, I get it...prices do rise, it happens, but...
DIL went from 425 a zen to the 470's in one day, thats ridiculous, greedy, and wrong. Oldest trick in the book, raise prices, get people used to paying more, then people wont complain when the new norm is 450+ a zen for DIL, but where will it end? It will just keep going up and up unless we do something, and do something NOW!
Don't let them get away with it! Yes, you should get fair value for your zen, but raising prices that fast? No, we do not have to stand for it, and if we stand together, they will think twice before they try to manipulate prices again...if we work together we can all benefit, boycott the DIL exchange and just sit back and marvel how fast the prices drop after they see no DIL in their coffers after a few days, but we all have to do this, together!
Take a stand for fair market value, boycott the DIL exchange!!!
Thanks fellow Star Travelers!
Here's a better suggestion: everyone don't listen to this person. His idea is asinine. I will use the Dil Exchange if I want and when I want to use it, no other player will influence my decision-making. Calling for a boycott will never work.. Also, there is no "we" in the conversation, there is just you, solafide. YOU don't wnat this to happen... good luck in trying to get anything going, you're going to need it.
If the product is selling and isn't a total survival necessity (staple food, health care), then the price is definitionally fair. That's basic economics.
There's nobody fixing prices. There's no cartel preventing someone from selling cheaper. Everyone who wants to sell can move their product at the current price, so there's a sufficient number of people willing to buy at that price to soak up the supply.
Demand and supply have met. The price is fair. It might not be JUST, but I very much hesitate to apply the idea of "justice" to the cost in play hours of an imaginary space ship. Morally, the price is neither good nor evil. But it is fair.
Look, I get it...prices do rise, it happens, but...
DIL went from 425 a zen to the 470's in one day, thats ridiculous, greedy, and wrong. Oldest trick in the book, raise prices, get people used to paying more, then people wont complain when the new norm is 450+ a zen for DIL, but where will it end? It will just keep going up and up unless we do something, and do something NOW!
Don't let them get away with it! Yes, you should get fair value for your zen, but raising prices that fast? No, we do not have to stand for it, and if we stand together, they will think twice before they try to manipulate prices again...if we work together we can all benefit, boycott the DIL exchange and just sit back and marvel how fast the prices drop after they see no DIL in their coffers after a few days, but we all have to do this, together!
Take a stand for fair market value, boycott the DIL exchange!!!
Thanks fellow Star Travelers!
Here's a better suggestion: everyone don't listen to this person. His idea is asinine. I will use the Dil Exchange if I want and when I want to use it, no other player will influence my decision-making. Calling for a boycott will never work.. Also, there is no "we" in the conversation, there is just you, solafide. YOU don't wnat this to happen... good luck in trying to get anything going, you're going to need it.
Agreed (and agreed with @nikeix as well). Add to that that anyone who doesn't agree with the OP is apparantly a troll, greedy or a 12-year old and that the OP has not even tried to actually defend his proposal against rightful criticism (such as the simple fact that there is literally no incentive for anyone to keep boycotting the Exchange once the price even goes slightly down and that, as @reyan01 pointed out, there will not even be enough people reading this whole thread) and I have to conclude that this pointless thread is just that: a pointless effort in trying to get something to happen, something that the OP - who might well be circumventing a ban as he himself hinted at -, if he would even have a basic understanding of the processes at work, would realise will never happen.
Threads with topics like this one should go in the FCT section imo. The topic has been discussed billions of times and the underlying processes have not changed since the first time it was discussed. There really is no point in having these threads pop up every couple of months whenever someone thinks it's in their power to influence the behaviour of the majority of the players, literally everyone who buys dilithium. Though I can understand why it hasn't been moved to the FCT section yet, as some, and I think we all know who I'm hinting at, would likely claim that it's the Zen sellers being mean again.
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,672Community Moderator
Only way to actually make an impact would be for a major Dilithium Sink to appear to balance the economy. Until then... we can only hope that we get no market flooding events or sales or new items to have it creep down to a balance point.
Not going to happen with the new ships coming next week, let alone when the new lockbox starts dropping.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
A big dilithium sink would hurt casuals and small fleets.
Perhaps. But look back at our history with the DL Exchange.
Back when Starbases were still being worked on by even the big fleets, Dilithium was in high demand. Exchange prices were down below 200/1 at least. I heard some people say it was even below 100/1 at some points.
If done right, a sink can help maintain a balance. But it needs to be one that is worthwhile.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
A big dilithium sink would hurt casuals and small fleets.
Perhaps. But look back at our history with the DL Exchange.
Back when Starbases were still being worked on by even the big fleets, Dilithium was in high demand. Exchange prices were down below 200/1 at least. I heard some people say it was even below 100/1 at some points.
If done right, a sink can help maintain a balance. But it needs to be one that is worthwhile.
The Krenim lab didn't really affect dilithium exchange prices much...I remember I had high hopes when it was announced and when it launched it didn't budge much.
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,672Community Moderator
edited June 2016
The Krenim Lab was not big enough, and most large fleets have maxed out Dilithium Mines that reduce the Dilithium Cost on Fleet Holdings.
Also a lot of the larger fleets have stockpiles of Dilithium to dump into fleet holdings.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
While it really doesn't hurt me one way or another there are a precentage of players that this defintely hurts. Not everyone can dump a large sum of cash for things in this game by no fault of thiers but from limits on thier budget due to family or economic situations in real life. The only realistic way they can get some items is thorugh the Dilith Exchange. These crazy prices are really hurting players like these who want to get better but are stymied by practices of some people out to get every EC or Dilth they can get there hands on.
While it really doesn't hurt me one way or another there are a precentage of players that this defintely hurts. Not everyone can dump a large sum of cash for things in this game by no fault of thiers but from limits on thier budget due to family or economic situations in real life. The only realistic way they can get some items is thorugh the Dilith Exchange. These crazy prices are really hurting players like these who want to get better but are stymied by practices of some people out to get every EC or Dilth they can get there hands on.
If we're going with a utilitarian argument, there are far more players benefiting from being able to sell at these prices.
Comments
The only solution I have for you is to consider setting aside $10 or so and making a killing on the market yourself. Yes, it defeats the purpose and principle, but you help fund the game at least!
STO Beta Test and Launch Veteran
Heres another great response, "you" boycott it.
My 500 zen stip every month has already capped out two characters in upgrades.
I couldn't care less what you do with your stip, or if you don't get one.
By all means carry on with your political campaign.
You are 100% incorrect in your interpretation...I do not claim to set fair market price, but a 10% rise in DIL for zen in less than 24 hours is not fair market value, it's hyperinflation cause by people gouging the players and players responding by paying that amount, thus a boycott..had you read my comment, which obviously you did not, my first sentence states that prices will go up, but again over 10% in one day is hyperinflation/market manipulation
You just cant seem to get anything right, maybe I post under another account? hmm, could be..maybe you should think less and listen/read more, you will learn something, being a constant troll will serve only to keep you ignorant
I already assumed you had another account you're protecting. Or were circumventing a ban.
Nowhere in my original post did I call anyone anything, or influence anyone...over 10% rise in DIL exchange prices in less than 24 hours is uncalled for, in any market...and yes I called him a big mouth after he assumed I was a free loader...so, I'll tell you what I told someone else; maybe if you read/listen more, instead of just trolling to be a troll, will serve you much better
I mean, seriously?
If you cared about the game in all this time, you'd have posted more. There have been some useful ideas happening on the forum before that you had no involvement in. Yet you expect investment in your idea? Hubris, man.
But of course it's easier to just call other people trolls and blatantly lie about your own statements (yes, you did call people greedy no matter how much you try to deny it) than accept that your own view may be based on... well, nothing. At least not a sufficient understanding of basic economics.
Ehm, yes, it is a strong loss of value of dil. It is not inflation (that would be dil prices for goods), but that's just a technicality. It is almost certainly not much market manipulation going on. First, I doubt that there is a cartel influential enough to do that - they would need to buy all the cheaper zen non cartel profiteers put on the market to keep prices high. That's hundreds of dollars per day. And more importantly, the extreme market fluctuations in the last week (not only the dil-ex, look at the ec-ex) have an in-game reason, called "infinity lockbox", which is so much better than any lockbox before that people are trying to grab all the keys they can, which means they need zen (or ec to pay those with zen).
Infinity lockbox will be gone next week, and then the market will probably settle. Higher than before, lower than now.
But anyway, what is a "boycott"? You cannot boycott zen sellers as accounts, since you don't know who they are. So the only thing you can do is not buy zen because you find it too expensive. Not buying something because it is too expensive is not a boycott, but completely normal market behavior. But if others do not think it too expensive, you can't force them to stop. And you'd have no right to tell them to.
How dare you introduce a rational argument into this thread!
Edit: My bad. It's a total sale, ships, services, costumes, everything is on sale right now.
Ok, moron, lets get this straight. The price is going up because DIL SELLERS WANT TO GET ZENI FASTER THAN OTHER DIL SELLERS. You are the only THEM in play here and your side of the bargaining table is doing this to themselves.
Zen sellers are not the cause of this. Do you think they all banded together to stop buying Dil and drive the price up? No. Obviously not. They are getting swamped by Dil Farmers' lust for Zeni with a new super lock box and a massive sale today. Their only morally reprehensible crime is not throwing real money at the game a fast as pink mud-coin farmers are chiseling dilithium out of it.
If the product is selling and isn't a total survival necessity (staple food, health care), then the price is definitionally fair. That's basic economics.
There's nobody fixing prices. There's no cartel preventing someone from selling cheaper. Everyone who wants to sell can move their product at the current price, so there's a sufficient number of people willing to buy at that price to soak up the supply.
Demand and supply have met. The price is fair. It might not be JUST, but I very much hesitate to apply the idea of "justice" to the cost in play hours of an imaginary space ship. Morally, the price is neither good nor evil. But it is fair.
Agreed (and agreed with @nikeix as well). Add to that that anyone who doesn't agree with the OP is apparantly a troll, greedy or a 12-year old and that the OP has not even tried to actually defend his proposal against rightful criticism (such as the simple fact that there is literally no incentive for anyone to keep boycotting the Exchange once the price even goes slightly down and that, as @reyan01 pointed out, there will not even be enough people reading this whole thread) and I have to conclude that this pointless thread is just that: a pointless effort in trying to get something to happen, something that the OP - who might well be circumventing a ban as he himself hinted at -, if he would even have a basic understanding of the processes at work, would realise will never happen.
Threads with topics like this one should go in the FCT section imo. The topic has been discussed billions of times and the underlying processes have not changed since the first time it was discussed. There really is no point in having these threads pop up every couple of months whenever someone thinks it's in their power to influence the behaviour of the majority of the players, literally everyone who buys dilithium. Though I can understand why it hasn't been moved to the FCT section yet, as some, and I think we all know who I'm hinting at, would likely claim that it's the Zen sellers being mean again.
Not going to happen with the new ships coming next week, let alone when the new lockbox starts dropping.
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
Perhaps. But look back at our history with the DL Exchange.
Back when Starbases were still being worked on by even the big fleets, Dilithium was in high demand. Exchange prices were down below 200/1 at least. I heard some people say it was even below 100/1 at some points.
If done right, a sink can help maintain a balance. But it needs to be one that is worthwhile.
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
The Krenim lab didn't really affect dilithium exchange prices much...I remember I had high hopes when it was announced and when it launched it didn't budge much.
Also a lot of the larger fleets have stockpiles of Dilithium to dump into fleet holdings.
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
If we're going with a utilitarian argument, there are far more players benefiting from being able to sell at these prices.