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Playable TOS character options beyond Founding 4

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    artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,450 Bug Hunter
    Have we ever seen a Tellarite in a Starfleet uniform? Ever? Andorians? Yes about three. Ah, hang on, one was from TAS and the other two from the TOS films.

    Thankfully Cryptic will be fixing this error and making Humans and Vulcans (but only half-Vulcans) playable to keep things true to the spirit of TOS and not including any references to TOS' fourth series TAS.
    Next they'll be removing all the ships except for the Constitution as (with the exception of the Daedalus) are completely non-canon, never mind from TOS or not. Oh, and the Constitution will be renamed the Starship Class.

    You'll also be locked into only male characters as TOS established that women cannot be Starship captains. Female characters will also be locked out of Engineering and Security as no female crew were ever shown in those departments in TOS. Female characters will additionally be locked out of using the trousered uniform as well.

    I can only assume the various TOS:R ships will be removed and replaced with original TOS style glowing smears to keep that nostalgic feel that would be completely invalidated should TAS Caitians be allowed in.

    Or alternatively Cryptic could try recognise that TAS is the fourth (and maybe fifth) series of TOS and that, unlike TMP onwards, there is no change in aesthetics or anything that deviates it from TOS beyond its format. So Caitians for all.
    Also, if the Daedalus, shown in DS9, can be referenced as a TOS ship then the Trills, referenced in DS9, can be a TOS race.​​
    22762792376_ac7c992b7c_o.png
    Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
    JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.

    #TASforSTO


    '...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
    'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
    'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
    '...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
    'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
    '...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek

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    daveynydaveyny Member Posts: 8,227 Arc User
    As I said in the other thread where you posted this exact same thought...

    OUR "Head-Canon" is not Cryptic's "Head-Canon" as far as the three seasons of Classic Trek are concerned.

    They used Artistic License to create what They felt was apropos for THEIR Classic Star Trek Expansion...

    Going on and on about what you feel would be appropriate, does nothing but increase ones post count here on the forums.

    We've heard in their recent interviews, partially of what this expansion is goin to include, and Caitians, "didn't cut the mustard".

    B)
    STO Member since February 2009.
    I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
    Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
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    artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,450 Bug Hunter
    On and on? That's twice now. It's more likely it'll be seen here though. I really don't see what you have against people making opinion posts. It's either this or more posts about DPS or a T6 Conni.
    22762792376_ac7c992b7c_o.png
    Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
    JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.

    #TASforSTO


    '...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
    'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
    'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
    '...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
    'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
    '...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek

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    claudiusdkclaudiusdk Member Posts: 561 Arc User
    edited June 2016
    I realized something. When the Romulan expansion was being tested out by gold and LTS. I recall aliengen races and bonus races wasn't available for us either, until the closed expansion test ended.
    I am pretty sure it was only the free content, and its the same same we are doing now. Hence I am starting to think we won't see alien gen until the game gets public tested near the end phase or when it goes live. When the diffrences between free and payed player gets activated.
    Did any devs actually say they wouldn't be added? or is it all assumptions since they aren't in now? or some some devs offhand remark taken out of content?

    inb4: "Devs said they won't be available" without links to posts or acticles, or people telling you to listen to hour long webradio interviews and podcasts without giving timecode where said things were said.
    Post edited by claudiusdk on
    "Please, Captain, not in front of the Klingons."
    Spock to Kirk, as Kirk is about to hug him.
    Star Trek V: "The Final Frontier"
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    rosetyler51rosetyler51 Member Posts: 1,631 Arc User
    claudiusdk wrote: »
    I realized something. When the Romulan expansion was being tested out by gold and LTS. I recall aliengen races and bonus races wasn't available for us either, until the closed expansion test ended.
    I am pretty sure it was only the free content, and its the same same we are doing now. Hence I am starting to think we won't see alien gen until the game gets public tested near the end phase or when it goes live. When the diffrences between free and payed player gets activated.
    Did any devs actually say they wouldn't be added? or is it all assumptions since they aren't in now? or some some devs offhand remake taken out of content?

    inb4: "Devs said they won't be available" without links to posts or acticles, or people telling you to listen to hour long webradio interviews and podcasts without giving timecode where said things were said.

    There is a saying I love. Cryptic is cryptic. I would not put it past them to have a secret or two so who knows.
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    claudiusdkclaudiusdk Member Posts: 561 Arc User
    claudiusdk wrote: »
    I realized something. When the Romulan expansion was being tested out by gold and LTS. I recall aliengen races and bonus races wasn't available for us either, until the closed expansion test ended.
    I am pretty sure it was only the free content, and its the same same we are doing now. Hence I am starting to think we won't see alien gen until the game gets public tested near the end phase or when it goes live. When the diffrences between free and payed player gets activated.
    Did any devs actually say they wouldn't be added? or is it all assumptions since they aren't in now? or some some devs offhand remake taken out of content?

    inb4: "Devs said they won't be available" without links to posts or acticles, or people telling you to listen to hour long webradio interviews and podcasts without giving timecode where said things were said.

    There is a saying I love. Cryptic is cryptic. I would not put it past them to have a secret or two so who knows.

    I really miss the time when the devs was more open and sharing about upcoming content. Back when we knew months before what was getting added.
    Think they stopped because some people started to complain whenever stuff that had been hinted at, didn't get added since there had been a change of plans. Or something.
    Or cause everyone was spoiling it for everyone else.

    Anyway yeah, I miss the more open communications between the dev team and players.
    "Please, Captain, not in front of the Klingons."
    Spock to Kirk, as Kirk is about to hug him.
    Star Trek V: "The Final Frontier"
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    markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    claudiusdk wrote: »
    I realized something. When the Romulan expansion was being tested out by gold and LTS. I recall aliengen races and bonus races wasn't available for us either, until the closed expansion test ended.
    I am pretty sure it was only the free content, and its the same same we are doing now. Hence I am starting to think we won't see alien gen until the game gets public tested near the end phase or when it goes live. When the diffrences between free and payed player gets activated.
    Did any devs actually say they wouldn't be added? or is it all assumptions since they aren't in now? or some some devs offhand remark taken out of content?

    inb4: "Devs said they won't be available" without links to posts or acticles, or people telling you to listen to hour long webradio interviews and podcasts without giving timecode where said things were said.
    Plan A was to make Rom aliens a subscriber(Gold or LTS, not just LTS) only thing and have them be in some way better than regular aliens.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
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    captkelly31#5645 captkelly31 Member Posts: 392 Arc User
    I think they should add more than the top 4 species for SF to merge the Kirk show and film(s) with Archers show.
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    thebanjothebanjo Member Posts: 28 Arc User
    I think they should add more than the top 4 species for SF to merge the Kirk show and film(s) with Archers show.


    They sort of already are merging ENT and TOS in this expansion with Daniels etc.
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    welcome2earfwelcome2earf Member Posts: 1,746 Arc User
    I guess what bugs me the most is that the game's meta has moved sooooo far away from TOS that the TRIBBLE space traits that the founding 4 races have is kinda a big deal. What makes it worse is that the idea of expanding race traits has been suggested a million times, but to no avail.

    At least allow me to make an Alien, ffs....
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    evilmark444evilmark444 Member Posts: 6,950 Arc User
    I guess what bugs me the most is that the game's meta has moved sooooo far away from TOS that the TRIBBLE space traits that the founding 4 races have is kinda a big deal. What makes it worse is that the idea of expanding race traits has been suggested a million times, but to no avail.

    At least allow me to make an Alien, ffs....

    I think the race change token some have noticed being awarded will be the compromise here, the idea being that if we choose to use it we are changing our appearance to prevent anyone from recognizing us ... or in the case of my (planned) TOS toon they came to the future and were promptly assimilated :)
    Lifetime Subscriber since Beta
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    jarenriccarjarenriccar Member Posts: 248 Arc User
    nikeix wrote: »
    nikeix wrote: »
    You need to be clear on something when setting your expectations for this release: Agents of Yesterday is NOT for the deeply involved, knowledgeable Star Trek superfan. Setting depth is not the goal here.

    It is a streamlined, glossy look at the absolutely iconic features of The Original Series TV show - NOT the Star Trek Universe - and is aimed at attracting casual fans who never heard of ANY of the races you just mentioned. It's designed to get them into the game and moving forward with the absolute minimum number of distractions - distractions like picking from more than four races.
    nikeix wrote: »
    Option paralysis is the great bane of our age and frankly I'm a little surprised they went with 4 races. Three options is pretty much the go to level of complexity for blind, binding choices to pitch in front of a new player. If they thought they could have cut it down to "Human or Vulcan, full stop" they probably would have. There was no ideal third choice so they ended up with 4 and can call it "Federation Founders"

    Some days it's actually kind of funny to be completely ignored.

    ...and still be right.

    actually i did read these earlier. and agreed with them. except for the Option paralysis bit, though you might be right on that as well but it just felt....mildly insulting. people being too dumb to make choices and all that.
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    jarenriccarjarenriccar Member Posts: 248 Arc User
    Does anyone remember the backlash that happened when Caitians were announced? how much people didn't want them in the game AT ALL?
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    daveynydaveyny Member Posts: 8,227 Arc User
    Yep.

    There was also a few moments of furor when people thought that only the Feds. were going to get them.

    Fun Times... almost as much as Delta Rising.
    >:)
    STO Member since February 2009.
    I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
    Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
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    captkelly31#5645 captkelly31 Member Posts: 392 Arc User
    Another thing, is that they should have so you can toggle on/off the appearance of Romulan, Andorian, Tellarite, and Gorn npc's. I also wonder if the TOS Gorn implies a new VU for them.
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    thebanjothebanjo Member Posts: 28 Arc User
    Another thing, is that they should have so you can toggle on/off the appearance of Romulan, Andorian, Tellarite, and Gorn npc's. I also wonder if the TOS Gorn implies a new VU for them.

    If I recall they used to look like the TOS Gorn when the game first came out and then updated because of popularity.

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    nikeixnikeix Member Posts: 3,972 Arc User
    actually i did read these earlier. and agreed with them. except for the Option paralysis bit, though you might be right on that as well but it just felt....mildly insulting. people being too dumb to make choices and all that.

    New players aren't insulted when you don't show them choices they don't know exist. In fact they're usually happy to not be bombarded with a bunch of options that all carry tags and notes and consequences that are part of a framework they haven't even seen yet.

    They do get very out of sorts when they're less than 30 second into a new game and are starting to wonder "did I make a bad choice?" and having 12 alien races in front of them, most of which they've never heard of is EXACTLY how you inspire that nagging doubt. You lose a handful of potential players right there, but more importantly you've got a very significant fraction of your new customers playing your opening story with their shoulders up around their ears feeling like this could have been easier if they picked on of those other 11 races instead.

    Giving out the race change token later on is a nice compromise - it let the player get their footing without their very first and quite uniformed decision being entirely binding.

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    protoneousprotoneous Member Posts: 2,986 Arc User
    nikeix wrote: »
    actually i did read these earlier. and agreed with them. except for the Option paralysis bit, though you might be right on that as well but it just felt....mildly insulting. people being too dumb to make choices and all that.

    New players aren't insulted when you don't show them choices they don't know exist. In fact they're usually happy to not be bombarded with a bunch of options that all carry tags and notes and consequences that are part of a framework they haven't even seen yet.

    They do get very out of sorts when they're less than 30 second into a new game and are starting to wonder "did I make a bad choice?" and having 12 alien races in front of them, most of which they've never heard of is EXACTLY how you inspire that nagging doubt. You lose a handful of potential players right there, but more importantly you've got a very significant fraction of your new customers playing your opening story with their shoulders up around their ears feeling like this could have been easier if they picked on of those other 11 races instead.

    Giving out the race change token later on is a nice compromise - it let the player get their footing without their very first and quite uniformed decision being entirely binding.

    You, good sir, are a voice of reason. Let them get their feet wet first and hopefully the race change token that myself and others have seen will come in handy later when a new player has a better feel of who they want to be.

    Heck, even for somebody that already has several toons it can be a decision that requires a fair bit of thought and one browser tab open per race to check traits...
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    captkelly31#5645 captkelly31 Member Posts: 392 Arc User
    Anyway, i agree with those who would like more than the Fed 4 species. ENT and Kirk movie aliens should be made playable via customization. Maybe have Bolians, but only as NPC's in an episode involving first contact with them.
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    borticuscrypticborticuscryptic Member Posts: 2,478 Cryptic Developer
    protoneous wrote: »
    ... the race change token that myself and others have seen will come in handy later ...

    Where was this seen?

    We currently have no plans of releasing a Race Change Token of any sort, as attempting to change data of this type would, without question, completely break some of the fundamental aspects of your character. It could potentially become a feature at some point in the distant future, but a lot of character code would have to be updated/changed to facilitate it, and that work has not been done, nor is planned to be done as far as I'm aware.
    Jeremy Randall
    Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
    "Play smart!"
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    teknesiateknesia Member Posts: 860 Arc User
    protoneous wrote: »
    ... the race change token that myself and others have seen will come in handy later ...

    Where was this seen?

    We currently have no plans of releasing a Race Change Token of any sort, as attempting to change data of this type would, without question, completely break some of the fundamental aspects of your character. It could potentially become a feature at some point in the distant future, but a lot of character code would have to be updated/changed to facilitate it, and that work has not been done, nor is planned to be done as far as I'm aware.

    Thanks for the confirmation one way or the other. Sort of a shame, but it won't change my planned character too much.
    edbf9204-c725-4dab-a35a-46626a4cb978.jpg
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    protoneousprotoneous Member Posts: 2,986 Arc User
    protoneous wrote: »
    ... the race change token that myself and others have seen will come in handy later ...

    Where was this seen?

    It was seen as a yellow [System] message on Tribble while playing the first 3 or so AoY episodes. It was originally mentioned on the first page of this thread May 22.

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    jarenriccarjarenriccar Member Posts: 248 Arc User
    protoneous wrote: »
    ... the race change token that myself and others have seen will come in handy later ...

    Where was this seen?

    We currently have no plans of releasing a Race Change Token of any sort, as attempting to change data of this type would, without question, completely break some of the fundamental aspects of your character. It could potentially become a feature at some point in the distant future, but a lot of character code would have to be updated/changed to facilitate it, and that work has not been done, nor is planned to be done as far as I'm aware.

    I saw that too, said we had unlocked it in a little popup
    27507930894_3855d74146_o.jpg


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    borticuscrypticborticuscryptic Member Posts: 2,478 Cryptic Developer
    Are you absolutely certain it didn't say "Respec Species Traits Token" or "Captain Rename Token" ?

    The former is still given out as part of our default leveling process, even though it's no longer used since you can move around Traits freely on static maps.

    The latter was at one time included as part of the rewards for Caleb, for roleplay purposes. It was later removed, as we were worried that players would feel as though we were forcing them to rename their captains.
    Jeremy Randall
    Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
    "Play smart!"
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    protoneousprotoneous Member Posts: 2,986 Arc User
    Are you absolutely certain it didn't say "Respec Species Traits Token" or "Captain Rename Token" ?

    I'm quite sure of what I saw (others have seen it as well), and it was neither of the above. I just replayed the AoY missions on Tribble today with particular attention paid to the appearance of said mystery message for the purpose of taking a screen shot to post in glorious color but it was nowhere to be found. Then again there's been many patches since May. It appears the mystery message remains... mysterious.

    It was not my intent to lead fellow players astray in any way.

    Thanks for clearing things up Bort.

    p.s. 1M (1,000,000) EC to anybody that can post a high resolution screenshot of the mystery message :D

    (forum name is in-game @handle)

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    teknesiateknesia Member Posts: 860 Arc User
    Minor gripe, but has anyone else noticed the lack of options when it comes to TOS Andorian female hair versus the standard fed Andorian female hair?
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    thebanjothebanjo Member Posts: 28 Arc User
    teknesia wrote: »
    Minor gripe, but has anyone else noticed the lack of options when it comes to TOS Andorian female hair versus the standard fed Andorian female hair?

    To be fair there are a lot of issues with hair options that they have added to the game like drawnback pony tail being given to a few races only like my Romulan male and I noticed a male andorian in the character creator I was playing with but not to say my Rigelian which Rigelians male and female have very few hair options to begin with for some reason.

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    haurianthauriant Member Posts: 145 Arc User
    edited July 2016
    Now that we know there will be no race change tokens, I’m going to add another request for Aliens in the TOS faction. The general aliens, no specific species. Cryptic wants to keep to the general TOS aesthetic. So even though Caitians and Rigelians would be around the Federation then, they wouldn’t fit if they appeared. OK.

    But we have been told that more modern features for Andorians and Tellarites will be unlocked after TOS characters merge with the 25th century storyline. What about Aliens that start out limited only to those Human, Vulcan, Andorian, and Tellarite features allowed for TOS characters? Perhaps allow all skin tones, since non-human colored skin was something in TOS. But if that wouldn’t fit the look the devs want, allow only realistic humans skin tones. Then, unlock every feature and color regular Alien STO characters can use in the character creator when those aliens reach the 25th century. The TOS aesthetic is preserved for early missions. There will officially be no TOS Trills or Rigleians, but after the TOS missions, Aliens can be made to resemble them, as well as more unique creations. (Actually, I never tried creating a Rigelian in the Alien character creator, so I can only guess that they can be made that way.)

    Now I know:

    It’s Cryptic’s choice. They can make the game the want: Yes. I hope that they reconsider this choice and that an alteration can be made that still conforms with their vision, while adding options to players that want them.

    It’s too late, now: Unless they plan to surprise us, it is definitely too late to have TOS Aliens at AoY launch. Potentially, they could be added later, though, hopefully before the Temporal Recruitment Event ends.

    It may be too much work to do, even if Cryptic wants to do it: As someone who isn’t a programmer or a developer, let alone one for this specific piece of software, I have no idea how hard it would be to implement. It seems easier than some ideas, but that seeming could be deceptive. Even if it isn’t hard, it might take effort away from something that has a higher priority. I can only suggest, and hope the suggestion is heard, liked, and could work out for the devs.

    This is a First World Problem: Sure is. Being able to play or work on a game like STO is a First World situation (wherever in the world players actually are). If First World Problems shouldn’t be solved, then the problem that there hadn’t been a Star Trek MMO should never have been rectified.


    I hope this is something that could be done sometime. (Again, preferably before the Temporal Recruitment Event ends, but priorities and possibilities, as mentioned). I know I would create more TOS characters, and buy things for them, if Aliens, such as I described, were an option.
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    thebanjothebanjo Member Posts: 28 Arc User
    I love how they were trying to tell us it is as TOS pure as possible, hence the race options, and yet it's a combo of TOS, ENT, KELVIN, TMP, VOY, and TNG. SERIOUSLY?!?! Now there definitely was no reason for them to not have more species options or of the least an aliengen. Like seriously the first lockbox of a supposed TOS only themed expansion is KELVIN timeline.
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