Instead of hitting space bar over and over, players would have to activate their buffs manually, which increases both immersion and engagement.
On the contrary, it would reduce immersion. A real starship captain would not be manually activating anything. They have crew for that. That I can't, for example, tell my tactical officer to use Tactical Team 1 and keep using it until ordered to stop breaks immersion.
Keybinds are a poor substitute for being able to order your crew to do their job instead of having to do it for them, but still better than being forced to do everything manually.
And its not much for "engagement" either, when ships often have so many abilities they can't all fit on the tray at once.
UI Interface click-activation failure/lag has been my #1 request for a bug fix. It has never happened yet.
For the longest time I went without macros and binds, and my gameplay consisted of struggling with console activation powers which are on very short cooldowns only rarely glancing up at the battle. It was click intensive, inefficient, and didn't feel like a space arcade game.
Now, I use keybinds for only 2 rows plus a survival button (clicking on it manually has so much lag or failure to activate I learn time and again not to click on it manually but use its keybind), while the rest of the attention is split between situational clickies, battle objectives, pets, and really just about everything else. It feels just right, especially if you fly science ships or others that are loaded with abilities that build on one another in various ways, inevitably leading to an unfair advantage should macros be taken away.
I also use a joystick on left hand to prevent strain, and require keybinds for the joystick through a third-party app that's then further tied in to macros as a way to get around the lack of proper joystick input. This isn't a FPS game, but one where keys are held constantly.
Given the shifted focus of the skill revamp on cool-down reductions on top of expensive starship traits that do the same, there's an emphasis on time in the sense of saving a few seconds here or there. Taking away macros would invalidate that or become so click-intensive to maintain the same performance, I predict the end result would be the same performance only with a much more labour intensive gameplay.
The Devs are also happy to provide less click-intensive experiences as with the revamp on menus for doffing, reputation mark turn-ins, and fleet contributions, with the exception of the dilithium slider for good reason. Such improvements of otherwise routine and extremely repetitive actions are much appreciated.
Devs: Provide the option to Turn OFF full screen flashes from enemy ship explosions
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You know what's funny is that the macro I have setup on my spacebar on tells my weapons to fire, balances my shields, and activates my sheild heals.....that's it....
You know what's funny is that the macro I have setup on my spacebar on tells my weapons to fire, balances my shields, and activates my sheild heals.....that's it....
That's pretty much what I do, although instead of shield heals it's whatever abilities I keep on global. I did however separate the weapons and shield balancing bind from the skills bind when I got my macro keyboard for efficiency.
Keybinds are not the issue... besides removing the in game keybinds will just mean more people using external software. Software made by pretty much every major gaming mouse/keyboard manufacturer.
The issue with the stupid DPS has nothing at all to do with keybinds.
The only keybind I use is my Distribute shields button also makes all my Buff Icons larger. lol My DPS ships still do enough DPS that the game is boring beyond being worth playing.
UI is very unresponsive and laggy. It's gotten worse these last few years and macros alleviate the problem.
Took me years to finally accept that I had to use a macro for PvP, but I have to because the UI won't register a clock input on the power tray the 1st, 2nd, sometimes even 3rd time.
It's "hilarious" when the UI missfires. I was clicking (yes clicking, no macro) evasive in a panic and all it did is put the power on cool down.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
If cryptic did that, the use of keyboard macros would be on the rise. Something like removing the in-game keybind script would just push people to use keyboard macros as an alternative, even if they're not ideal.
Cryptic kinda screwed up by making so many active abilities and it was a mistake. They should have gone with a small group of active abilities and make the rest passive that activate buff on condition. They got the right idea with the Commander/Intel/Commando trees. Is it too late to make another overhaul of the abilities and combine them into passives? No. Will they take initiative to fix this obviously glaring problem? Nope. I don't see any lag when passive buffs/abilities proc. It's insanely bad with the active stuff.
They really need to fix their bad game design, it's not the macros. Besides people are going to make macros regardless, forever.
You have people saying the best DPS'er don't use macro's. I'm calling BS on that.
They may not be "Spacebar'ing" everything, but you can be sure they do have 3 or 4 keys they can cycle through that activate a number of buffs/abilities per key setup.
It's a lot more skillful then binding everything to spacebar, but still in my book, its a mild form of cheating.
What are we all Android Captains that can tap in our ships computer and activate everything off of a passing thought ???
No. We are not.
ONLY DATA might have been able to pull something like this off.
You never heard Picard or Kirk say; Red Alert !!! Hit Keybind 1 !!! and then Keybind 2 !!! (to activate a plethora of skills and abilities) and "Ill be in my ready room reading my book in the meantime ! Call me if you need me."
LOL
.. No they had to call out each specific orders in sequence. Then the human crew would have to react to those orders in a timely manner.
I've never used them, and never will because of what I already described above with Picard and Kirk.
It's not right. It's not Star Trek, and only a captain who needs a crutch will use them, and find a convenient excuse to keep using them. Like "ohhh I get tray lagggg wahhhh" "I must use my keybinds" etc etc.
I've been playing 3 years without any binds.
Granted I'm not the best pilot and it took me forever to reach 75k, but I finally did, and I can stand proud that I never resorted to crutch's to help get me there.
Anyone else who wants to say it doesn't add any noticeable benefit should request their top DPS numbers be erased from the boards, then try again to reach those heights without the aid of multi skill/ability binds. I'll laugh watching you struggle to get to where you once were.
Which is why I support Druk on his idea.
No Captain should be capable of instant communication/reaction with the ship and its crew, with the exception of DATA who theoretically could link himself with a ships main computer. But even then he would still have to deal with the human reaction times of the crew assigned to each station, unless they're all Android as well. Which would kill the whole idea of what Trek is about.
Humans exploring the vast expanse of space and time, even despite all of our inadequacies.
Just because you can do it in game, doesn't mean it's right and proper.
It just means you're taking advantage of a crutch to improve your final numbers.
Did no one watch that TOS episode where an AI was given full control of a starship ? It didn't end well.
That's basically how I feel when people insist they must use multi ability/skill keybinds/macros.
You're basically telling Starfleet is a-ok to install Dr. Daystroms "M-5 Multitronic System" on to your ship, while you are as to Kirk in that episode, left to the sidelines, Useless, and praying something doesn't go wrong.
For me the problem isn't that it's in the game or not, it's that fundamentally, any REAL Trek fan would be opposed to doing things in this manner.
Just like Kirk was opposed to the use of the M-5 super computer.
only a captain who needs a crutch will use them, and find a convenient excuse to keep using them. Like "ohhh I get tray lagggg wahhhh" "I must use my keybinds" etc etc.
I strongly disagree with being painted in this manner, I simply can't be bothered to press the same 9 buttons every three seconds, 2 buttons every 15 seconds and 2 buttons every 30 seconds, every time I play when I can press two buttons at the start of a mission and forget about them, pure laziness on my part.
only a captain who needs a crutch will use them, and find a convenient excuse to keep using them. Like "ohhh I get tray lagggg wahhhh" "I must use my keybinds" etc etc.
I strongly disagree with being painted in this manner, I simply can't be bothered to press the same 9 buttons every three seconds, 2 buttons every 15 seconds and 2 buttons every 30 seconds, every time I play when I can press two buttons at the start of a mission and forget about them, pure laziness on my part.
Fair enough I guess...you're lazy. But hey, its a video game after all.
But any of the Captain's featured in the shows, never had the luxury of multi ability /skill keybinds.
Sorry that was never a part of Trek. Do as you like, but I'll always consider it mild cheating.
A question for the OP - whilst you may not like the use of macro's or keybinds have you considered that it is highly likely that some proportion of the player base may have a physical need for the use of these "tools". Consider for example the case of a player who may have restricted movement of one or both arms/hands. Whilst their lack of movement or dexterity may not be a factor that needs to be considered for normal internet browsing, when it comes to playing any game they may need to set up macros or specific keybinds to enable them to compete at even the most basic level within the game. Are you also advocating that these players should be excluded from playing? Because removing macro's/custom keybinds from the game would result in this happening whether this was the intent or not.
There's been a lot of discussion lately about DPS and DPS related issues.
The dirty open secret of DPS in STO is that it is based on writing keyboard macros in the STO keybinds. It's not an exploit or anything, its just a thing people figured out how to do. People bind everything to space bar, maybe another key, and then press it over and over, and it automates everything: keeping your buffs up and optimal, auto targeting and firing at ships etc.
I think the game would benefit from shaking things up. If the devs disabled the ability to make these macros, a new layer of skill-based play would be added to the game. Instead of hitting space bar over and over, players would have to activate their buffs manually, which increases both immersion and engagement.
I really think it would be a shot in the arm for gameplay at the highest levels. It would upset complacency, it would give people something new to get good at, it would add dynamism to space combat.
Please lend your voices to this proposal, lets get heard!
First: Keybinding is one way to succeed. The many things going on simultaneously in fast-paced combat require a fast-paced solution. Without keybinds a player is crippling himself against both the computer enemies and against other players. If you can monitor and click on ten different icons in a second manually, then you are a better gamer than I. Keybinds allow me to keep up with guys like you.
Second: The DPS race has nothing at all to do with keybinds, and everything to do with learning how to most effectively stack your powers and your ship. I have learned, for example, that Sensor Scan, Subnucleonic beam, and Photonic Shockwave synergize well together, as do Tyken's Rift and Tractor Beam. Triggering these powers in the correct order in the heat of battle while under fire and dodging enemy ships and obstacles is not as easy as it looks on the drawing board. A keybind allowing me to trigger them in the proper order while under stress means the difference between success and failure. But a manual clicker with really good hand-eye coordination can do it easily in the same time due to the global cooldown between clicks. In the time I press a single key three times, a really good clicker can click three icons. Again, this does not make me OP, it allows me to keep up with the great players.
Third: Players who understand keybinding don't simply load up the space bar and mindlessly click away. There are some powers that should be bound to a handy click-train, but these are universally defensive powers, and manually clicking them as they expire would take attention away from actually fighting the battle. Again, due to the global cooldown between powers, a good clicker can pick and choose as quickly as I can fire off abilities by stacking them on one or more keys, but I can't pick and click that fast: keybinds give me a way to equalize my combat prowess without allowing anyone to trigger powers faster than the global cooldown.
OP, I respect your views, as they are commonly held by a number of players. However, if you think about it, all keybinding accomplishes, all keybinding can accomplish, is to allow a marginal player who has trouble thinking under stress and trouble finding the right button when the heat is on to keep up with those guys who can manually pick and click faster than the global cooldown between powers activations. Keybinding is an equalizer, not an escalator.
I have my keybind loop that makes me hit the space bar like a drunk Astronaut.
Because:
Whenever I try to do an Alpha strike attack, I do that manually. I click on attack pattern Alpha, overrides safety, fire at will, emergency power to weapon, ....all the skills you want to be active. Now that's about 10 skills or so.
then I decloak and attack....
and then I realize that at least 3 skills didn't activate allthough the graphic showed that I had activated it. So instead of a 100k Plasma Lance or disruptor Lance damage I do 30k and I get bloody annoyed.
I have stopped using most skills that can be turned on and off - like engine power to weapon (only tried once, never experimented with it, so don't know if it's a useable skill) for the same reason. The game is so unresponding, that I don't bother with Managing skills.
I don't know how often I have died when health said I was on 15% or more and I hit miracle worker only for it to not activate.
18 characters
KDF: 2 tacs, 2 engs, 3 scis
KDF Roms: 3 tacs, 1 eng, 1 scis
FED: 2 tacs, 1 eng, 2 scis
TOS: 1 tac
all on T5 rep (up to temporal)
all have mastered Intel tree (and some more specs Points)
highest DPS: 60.982
No Captain should be capable of instant communication/reaction with the ship and its crew, with the exception of DATA who theoretically could link himself with a ships main computer.
Wrong. As early as 2374 (36 years before the setting of the game), the U.S.S. Prometheus showed itself to be capable of fighting with no crew at all, the computer needing to be told only "attack pattern alpha, target Romulans." By two EMH's that didn't even know how to fire the phasers manually.
But then no captain should have to. Because a crew should have memory longer than 30 seconds, and intelligence enough to accept orders more complex than "Do X now."
A real captain would train his crew to perform common maneuvers with single commands, without having to babysit them through everything step-by-step. That's what the "attack pattern alpha's" are on TV. In STO this means keybinds, even if the need to keep tapping them all the time is implausible.
A real captain could order his crew to do something until ordered to stop, instead of having to be told to keep doing it every 15 seconds.
A real captain could order their crew to do X if/when Y happens, instead of having to wait for Y to happen first.
And yes, a real captain could even conclude that the situation does not currently demand his presence and leave his crew to perform their duties as ordered while he does something else.
A very strange proposal, as smashing your keyboards, aka, 'People bind everything to space,' is a certified way to kill your DPS! Those who do so reach like 30k, tops. That 'new layer of skill-based play' already exists, and is for everyone in 50k and over. And it consists of people who are not 'hitting space bar over and over.'
No Captain should be capable of instant communication/reaction with the ship and its crew, with the exception of DATA who theoretically could link himself with a ships main computer.
Wrong. As early as 2374 (36 years before the setting of the game), the U.S.S. Prometheus showed itself to be capable of fighting with no crew at all, the computer needing to be told only "attack pattern alpha, target Romulans." By two EMH's that didn't even know how to fire the phasers manually.
But then no captain should have to. Because a crew should have memory longer than 30 seconds, and intelligence enough to accept orders more complex than "Do X now."
A real captain would train his crew to perform common maneuvers with single commands, without having to babysit them through everything step-by-step. That's what the "attack pattern alpha's" are on TV. In STO this means keybinds, even if the need to keep tapping them all the time is implausible.
A real captain could order his crew to do something until ordered to stop, instead of having to be told to keep doing it every 15 seconds.
A real captain could order their crew to do X if/when Y happens, instead of having to wait for Y to happen first.
And yes, a real captain could even conclude that the situation does not currently demand his presence and leave his crew to perform their duties as ordered while he does something else.
That is certainly something to consider.
But as early as 2150 in the episode "The Ultimate Computer" we see the issues that may crop up when a captain hands over full control of his ship to AI. And it didn't turn out well.
And even if your example holds true, *36 years before STO - which is NOT Canon btw*, I've never seen an episode where Starfleet endorses or uses this technique for long range exploration ships or Science ships, perhaps they do use unmanned crews in some circumstances, but they'd never apply it to the larger ships which engage in Exploration/Diplomatic or Scientific detail.
While I see some merit to what you are saying, I don't agree with your statement "That's what the Attack Patterns are on TV"
while there may be certain procedures performed sequentially when a Captain calls out an Attack Pattern, (Charging batteries, locking targeting computer, slowing to attack speed etc). There is no way a Captain should go off to their ready room after calling out a few Patterns. Even IF they could.
Did you ever see any captain in the Trek series leave the bridge during a fire fight ? Because his crew "could handle it" after calling a few patterns ?
None that I've ever seen.
If anything they hand over command to the next highest ranking officer.
They would monitor the situation as it progresses, and respond to any new threats or problems that occur on board during a fire fight.
There would be certain scenarios where the captain has to step in and divert attention to other systems on board.
One could argue a player with several multi skill/ability keybinds IS the Captain monitoring the situation, and reacting as necessary. But I don't completely buy it, I still think it makes things too easy. But again I wasn't as hard on the players who use a set of Keybinds. But I still find that it's providing the player a crutch.
When I need to perform abilities, I do it click by click, all while watching the battle, my position, cooldowns, speed, amongst a plethora of other factors I must take into account. Why should some be afforded the ease that pushing several buttons provides.
Its a distinct advantage when you no longer NEED to watch the tray as closely, and other factors I've mentioned, it free's up your field of view to watch the battle more closely, and enables the user to pay closer attention to the small details, that lead to higher DPS.
And I don't buy that a crew will perform everything you need with a few Patterns called out.
As we see in many episodes, a Captain frequently steps in to make adjustments or focus attention elsewhere, like shield reinforcement, deflector array polarity shifts etc etc etc etc etc (note the many etc's as there are hundreds of unique operational calls I've heard issued in the shows)
I'm not even versed in all the command calls, but its surely more then a handful of attack patterns, based on my viewing experience.
In the case where people are binding almost everything to spacebar...is another story completely. And the DATA reference stands.
You may as well hand over control of your ship to a pre programmed bot and let the AI do the work/gaming for you.
All I'm saying is I've never seen a Captain in Trek issue a few Patterns, and walk off the bridge.
And that I don't buy it when people say it provides little to no advantage. Or that it was a norm on the television series.
Hence why I still think of it as soft cheating.
Is it the end of the world ? NO. And if it makes your gaming more enjoyable/bearable, go for it. But I will never buy the argument that it provides no advantage.
Do we need to get rid of it ? I don't think so, but I wouldn't be opposed to it either, as I do feel everyone who is using them has a distinct advantage over users who don't, and I wouldn't mind seeing all users playing from equal footing.
Exception being, those with disabilities.
What about players with limited mobility in their hands or disabilities? How might this impact them?
a very interesting but very correct view did not even think about that view. I myself don't use macro at best i use autofire on energy weapons to tone down spacebar mashing but i feel my powers require a more organic feel rather than automation sure i may mistime it but i have a better read on what i do and do not need than a program
Macros undeniably are a crutch, but I'm not excited enough about it to take them away from people need it for their physical infirmities or fragile egos. Not like there are any binding terms for what constitutes a "fair" fight in this game anyway.
Macros undeniably are a crutch, but I'm not excited enough about it to take them away from people need it for their physical infirmities or fragile egos. Not like there are any binding terms for what constitutes a "fair" fight in this game anyway.
As I said earlier, I don't use macros. But they are no more of a crutch than using "fire all weapons" instead of clicking each individual weapon you want to fire. That is effectively the same thing.
On the surface they may be similar. But going a little deeper, nearly everyone uses Auto Fire. In fact the only time someone wouldn't use Auto fire is on a Torp boat. It shouldn't be compared to macros, where its not needed nearly as much by comparison. If there was no auto fire I don't think anyone would play the game, due to frustration of having to click every array/ cannon for every volley. You'd have to be clicking weapons FULLTIME if that option was not available. It would drive people crazy, and would require hundreds of more clicks, then selecting a barrage of skills/abilities.
Enabling multiple skills/abilities to be fired off with the push of a button is not equal to enabling AutoFire which is pretty much required to function.
And it is a crutch, when its relied upon to keep a perfect cycle of patterns, and abilities rolling. With Macros, you never lose any time between cycles, whereas a player not using them has to always keep a keen eye on the tray in order not to miss out.
But even then, it is near impossible to keep perfect up time without macros. Any player will benefit greatly from never missing an oppurtunity to cast an ability. And the end result will always be more skills activated per second vs someone who doesn't use them.
So, by all definitions, it is a crutch. Surely you can see this, yeah ?
That's fine, you don't have to. But the reality is, they both are shortcuts to avoid clicking individual abilities. That is simply a fact, and doesn't require your agreement to be true.
I dont agree Nagus.
On the surface they may be similar. But going a little deeper, nearly everyone uses Auto Fire.
In fact the only time someone wouldn't use Auto fire is on a Torp boat.
Hmm OK... if 'everybody' does something... does that automatically mean it's 'OK'?
Autofire was not always in game, and people used various (outside) key binds to get around it.
So lets take a trip back 4 years; would you still think 'auto fire' is still 'OK'?
You state that the only time a person would not use auto fire would be on a 'torp boat'.
Did you see the massive flames on these forums prior to auto fire and the 'space bar' doom threads?
I think quite a lot of the related threads are still available in the archive.
Have a look at them, and then come back. I would be interested to see if your opinions remain the same.
Comments
On the contrary, it would reduce immersion. A real starship captain would not be manually activating anything. They have crew for that. That I can't, for example, tell my tactical officer to use Tactical Team 1 and keep using it until ordered to stop breaks immersion.
Keybinds are a poor substitute for being able to order your crew to do their job instead of having to do it for them, but still better than being forced to do everything manually.
And its not much for "engagement" either, when ships often have so many abilities they can't all fit on the tray at once.
For the longest time I went without macros and binds, and my gameplay consisted of struggling with console activation powers which are on very short cooldowns only rarely glancing up at the battle. It was click intensive, inefficient, and didn't feel like a space arcade game.
Now, I use keybinds for only 2 rows plus a survival button (clicking on it manually has so much lag or failure to activate I learn time and again not to click on it manually but use its keybind), while the rest of the attention is split between situational clickies, battle objectives, pets, and really just about everything else. It feels just right, especially if you fly science ships or others that are loaded with abilities that build on one another in various ways, inevitably leading to an unfair advantage should macros be taken away.
I also use a joystick on left hand to prevent strain, and require keybinds for the joystick through a third-party app that's then further tied in to macros as a way to get around the lack of proper joystick input. This isn't a FPS game, but one where keys are held constantly.
Given the shifted focus of the skill revamp on cool-down reductions on top of expensive starship traits that do the same, there's an emphasis on time in the sense of saving a few seconds here or there. Taking away macros would invalidate that or become so click-intensive to maintain the same performance, I predict the end result would be the same performance only with a much more labour intensive gameplay.
The Devs are also happy to provide less click-intensive experiences as with the revamp on menus for doffing, reputation mark turn-ins, and fleet contributions, with the exception of the dilithium slider for good reason. Such improvements of otherwise routine and extremely repetitive actions are much appreciated.
That's pretty much what I do, although instead of shield heals it's whatever abilities I keep on global. I did however separate the weapons and shield balancing bind from the skills bind when I got my macro keyboard for efficiency.
The issue with the stupid DPS has nothing at all to do with keybinds.
The only keybind I use is my Distribute shields button also makes all my Buff Icons larger. lol My DPS ships still do enough DPS that the game is boring beyond being worth playing.
It's "hilarious" when the UI missfires. I was clicking (yes clicking, no macro) evasive in a panic and all it did is put the power on cool down.
Seriously, the bugs in this game...
Daizen - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
Selia - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
I don't either.
Although thanks to the Typhoon thread... I wanna see a Fed cruiser club-hauling...
Cryptic kinda screwed up by making so many active abilities and it was a mistake. They should have gone with a small group of active abilities and make the rest passive that activate buff on condition. They got the right idea with the Commander/Intel/Commando trees. Is it too late to make another overhaul of the abilities and combine them into passives? No. Will they take initiative to fix this obviously glaring problem? Nope. I don't see any lag when passive buffs/abilities proc. It's insanely bad with the active stuff.
They really need to fix their bad game design, it's not the macros. Besides people are going to make macros regardless, forever.
Aka, you support removing people's choice and forcing them to conform to your preferred play style. How very intolerant of you.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
They may not be "Spacebar'ing" everything, but you can be sure they do have 3 or 4 keys they can cycle through that activate a number of buffs/abilities per key setup.
It's a lot more skillful then binding everything to spacebar, but still in my book, its a mild form of cheating.
What are we all Android Captains that can tap in our ships computer and activate everything off of a passing thought ???
No. We are not.
ONLY DATA might have been able to pull something like this off.
You never heard Picard or Kirk say; Red Alert !!! Hit Keybind 1 !!! and then Keybind 2 !!! (to activate a plethora of skills and abilities) and "Ill be in my ready room reading my book in the meantime ! Call me if you need me."
LOL
.. No they had to call out each specific orders in sequence. Then the human crew would have to react to those orders in a timely manner.
I've never used them, and never will because of what I already described above with Picard and Kirk.
It's not right. It's not Star Trek, and only a captain who needs a crutch will use them, and find a convenient excuse to keep using them. Like "ohhh I get tray lagggg wahhhh" "I must use my keybinds" etc etc.
I've been playing 3 years without any binds.
Granted I'm not the best pilot and it took me forever to reach 75k, but I finally did, and I can stand proud that I never resorted to crutch's to help get me there.
Anyone else who wants to say it doesn't add any noticeable benefit should request their top DPS numbers be erased from the boards, then try again to reach those heights without the aid of multi skill/ability binds. I'll laugh watching you struggle to get to where you once were.
Which is why I support Druk on his idea.
No Captain should be capable of instant communication/reaction with the ship and its crew, with the exception of DATA who theoretically could link himself with a ships main computer. But even then he would still have to deal with the human reaction times of the crew assigned to each station, unless they're all Android as well. Which would kill the whole idea of what Trek is about.
Humans exploring the vast expanse of space and time, even despite all of our inadequacies.
Just because you can do it in game, doesn't mean it's right and proper.
It just means you're taking advantage of a crutch to improve your final numbers.
Did no one watch that TOS episode where an AI was given full control of a starship ? It didn't end well.
That's basically how I feel when people insist they must use multi ability/skill keybinds/macros.
You're basically telling Starfleet is a-ok to install Dr. Daystroms "M-5 Multitronic System" on to your ship, while you are as to Kirk in that episode, left to the sidelines, Useless, and praying something doesn't go wrong.
For me the problem isn't that it's in the game or not, it's that fundamentally, any REAL Trek fan would be opposed to doing things in this manner.
Just like Kirk was opposed to the use of the M-5 super computer.
To me it'll always be a mild form of cheating.
I strongly disagree with being painted in this manner, I simply can't be bothered to press the same 9 buttons every three seconds, 2 buttons every 15 seconds and 2 buttons every 30 seconds, every time I play when I can press two buttons at the start of a mission and forget about them, pure laziness on my part.
Fair enough I guess...you're lazy. But hey, its a video game after all.
But any of the Captain's featured in the shows, never had the luxury of multi ability /skill keybinds.
Sorry that was never a part of Trek. Do as you like, but I'll always consider it mild cheating.
Do you use 'auto fire' on your weapons? or do you click each individual one each time you want to fire?
Touche, Point Equinox.
Not on my Torp build...but you got me. When using Beams, Cannons...ya I do use auto fire.
First: Keybinding is one way to succeed. The many things going on simultaneously in fast-paced combat require a fast-paced solution. Without keybinds a player is crippling himself against both the computer enemies and against other players. If you can monitor and click on ten different icons in a second manually, then you are a better gamer than I. Keybinds allow me to keep up with guys like you.
Second: The DPS race has nothing at all to do with keybinds, and everything to do with learning how to most effectively stack your powers and your ship. I have learned, for example, that Sensor Scan, Subnucleonic beam, and Photonic Shockwave synergize well together, as do Tyken's Rift and Tractor Beam. Triggering these powers in the correct order in the heat of battle while under fire and dodging enemy ships and obstacles is not as easy as it looks on the drawing board. A keybind allowing me to trigger them in the proper order while under stress means the difference between success and failure. But a manual clicker with really good hand-eye coordination can do it easily in the same time due to the global cooldown between clicks. In the time I press a single key three times, a really good clicker can click three icons. Again, this does not make me OP, it allows me to keep up with the great players.
Third: Players who understand keybinding don't simply load up the space bar and mindlessly click away. There are some powers that should be bound to a handy click-train, but these are universally defensive powers, and manually clicking them as they expire would take attention away from actually fighting the battle. Again, due to the global cooldown between powers, a good clicker can pick and choose as quickly as I can fire off abilities by stacking them on one or more keys, but I can't pick and click that fast: keybinds give me a way to equalize my combat prowess without allowing anyone to trigger powers faster than the global cooldown.
OP, I respect your views, as they are commonly held by a number of players. However, if you think about it, all keybinding accomplishes, all keybinding can accomplish, is to allow a marginal player who has trouble thinking under stress and trouble finding the right button when the heat is on to keep up with those guys who can manually pick and click faster than the global cooldown between powers activations. Keybinding is an equalizer, not an escalator.
Because:
Whenever I try to do an Alpha strike attack, I do that manually. I click on attack pattern Alpha, overrides safety, fire at will, emergency power to weapon, ....all the skills you want to be active. Now that's about 10 skills or so.
then I decloak and attack....
and then I realize that at least 3 skills didn't activate allthough the graphic showed that I had activated it. So instead of a 100k Plasma Lance or disruptor Lance damage I do 30k and I get bloody annoyed.
I have stopped using most skills that can be turned on and off - like engine power to weapon (only tried once, never experimented with it, so don't know if it's a useable skill) for the same reason. The game is so unresponding, that I don't bother with Managing skills.
I don't know how often I have died when health said I was on 15% or more and I hit miracle worker only for it to not activate.
KDF: 2 tacs, 2 engs, 3 scis
KDF Roms: 3 tacs, 1 eng, 1 scis
FED: 2 tacs, 1 eng, 2 scis
TOS: 1 tac
all on T5 rep (up to temporal)
all have mastered Intel tree (and some more specs Points)
highest DPS: 60.982
But then no captain should have to. Because a crew should have memory longer than 30 seconds, and intelligence enough to accept orders more complex than "Do X now."
A real captain would train his crew to perform common maneuvers with single commands, without having to babysit them through everything step-by-step. That's what the "attack pattern alpha's" are on TV. In STO this means keybinds, even if the need to keep tapping them all the time is implausible.
A real captain could order his crew to do something until ordered to stop, instead of having to be told to keep doing it every 15 seconds.
A real captain could order their crew to do X if/when Y happens, instead of having to wait for Y to happen first.
And yes, a real captain could even conclude that the situation does not currently demand his presence and leave his crew to perform their duties as ordered while he does something else.
That is certainly something to consider.
But as early as 2150 in the episode "The Ultimate Computer" we see the issues that may crop up when a captain hands over full control of his ship to AI. And it didn't turn out well.
And even if your example holds true, *36 years before STO - which is NOT Canon btw*, I've never seen an episode where Starfleet endorses or uses this technique for long range exploration ships or Science ships, perhaps they do use unmanned crews in some circumstances, but they'd never apply it to the larger ships which engage in Exploration/Diplomatic or Scientific detail.
While I see some merit to what you are saying, I don't agree with your statement "That's what the Attack Patterns are on TV"
while there may be certain procedures performed sequentially when a Captain calls out an Attack Pattern, (Charging batteries, locking targeting computer, slowing to attack speed etc). There is no way a Captain should go off to their ready room after calling out a few Patterns. Even IF they could.
Did you ever see any captain in the Trek series leave the bridge during a fire fight ? Because his crew "could handle it" after calling a few patterns ?
None that I've ever seen.
If anything they hand over command to the next highest ranking officer.
They would monitor the situation as it progresses, and respond to any new threats or problems that occur on board during a fire fight.
There would be certain scenarios where the captain has to step in and divert attention to other systems on board.
One could argue a player with several multi skill/ability keybinds IS the Captain monitoring the situation, and reacting as necessary. But I don't completely buy it, I still think it makes things too easy. But again I wasn't as hard on the players who use a set of Keybinds. But I still find that it's providing the player a crutch.
When I need to perform abilities, I do it click by click, all while watching the battle, my position, cooldowns, speed, amongst a plethora of other factors I must take into account. Why should some be afforded the ease that pushing several buttons provides.
Its a distinct advantage when you no longer NEED to watch the tray as closely, and other factors I've mentioned, it free's up your field of view to watch the battle more closely, and enables the user to pay closer attention to the small details, that lead to higher DPS.
And I don't buy that a crew will perform everything you need with a few Patterns called out.
As we see in many episodes, a Captain frequently steps in to make adjustments or focus attention elsewhere, like shield reinforcement, deflector array polarity shifts etc etc etc etc etc (note the many etc's as there are hundreds of unique operational calls I've heard issued in the shows)
I'm not even versed in all the command calls, but its surely more then a handful of attack patterns, based on my viewing experience.
In the case where people are binding almost everything to spacebar...is another story completely. And the DATA reference stands.
You may as well hand over control of your ship to a pre programmed bot and let the AI do the work/gaming for you.
All I'm saying is I've never seen a Captain in Trek issue a few Patterns, and walk off the bridge.
And that I don't buy it when people say it provides little to no advantage. Or that it was a norm on the television series.
Hence why I still think of it as soft cheating.
Is it the end of the world ? NO. And if it makes your gaming more enjoyable/bearable, go for it. But I will never buy the argument that it provides no advantage.
Do we need to get rid of it ? I don't think so, but I wouldn't be opposed to it either, as I do feel everyone who is using them has a distinct advantage over users who don't, and I wouldn't mind seeing all users playing from equal footing.
Exception being, those with disabilities.
a very interesting but very correct view did not even think about that view. I myself don't use macro at best i use autofire on energy weapons to tone down spacebar mashing but i feel my powers require a more organic feel rather than automation sure i may mistime it but i have a better read on what i do and do not need than a program
I can click so quickly and accurately look at all this skill I have I can't even hold it all oh boy what a great skill-based game this is /s
As I said earlier, I don't use macros. But they are no more of a crutch than using "fire all weapons" instead of clicking each individual weapon you want to fire. That is effectively the same thing.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
On the surface they may be similar. But going a little deeper, nearly everyone uses Auto Fire.
In fact the only time someone wouldn't use Auto fire is on a Torp boat.
It shouldn't be compared to macros, where its not needed nearly as much by comparison.
If there was no auto fire I don't think anyone would play the game, due to frustration of having to click every array/ cannon for every volley.
You'd have to be clicking weapons FULLTIME if that option was not available. It would drive people crazy, and would require hundreds of more clicks, then selecting a barrage of skills/abilities.
Enabling multiple skills/abilities to be fired off with the push of a button is not equal to enabling AutoFire which is pretty much required to function.
And it is a crutch, when its relied upon to keep a perfect cycle of patterns, and abilities rolling.
With Macros, you never lose any time between cycles, whereas a player not using them has to always keep a keen eye on the tray in order not to miss out.
But even then, it is near impossible to keep perfect up time without macros.
Any player will benefit greatly from never missing an oppurtunity to cast an ability.
And the end result will always be more skills activated per second vs someone who doesn't use them.
So, by all definitions, it is a crutch.
Surely you can see this, yeah ?
That's fine, you don't have to. But the reality is, they both are shortcuts to avoid clicking individual abilities. That is simply a fact, and doesn't require your agreement to be true.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Hmm OK... if 'everybody' does something... does that automatically mean it's 'OK'?
Autofire was not always in game, and people used various (outside) key binds to get around it.
So lets take a trip back 4 years; would you still think 'auto fire' is still 'OK'?
You state that the only time a person would not use auto fire would be on a 'torp boat'.
Did you see the massive flames on these forums prior to auto fire and the 'space bar' doom threads?
I think quite a lot of the related threads are still available in the archive.
Have a look at them, and then come back. I would be interested to see if your opinions remain the same.