I like the BOFF cooldown thing but 10% is pretty small for such a large skill investment. I recommend 15% or even 20% because of how diminishing returns affect cooldowns but that may be asking too much. At 10% though I don't find it worthwhile especially for science and tactical, engineering maybe.
I also couldn't help but notice the cooldown on the (SciCMDR) mod on fleet and reputation deflectors was cut in half from 10% to 5%... I'm all for balancing OP stuff, even if i like it, but this hardly seemed like a big issue unless you just really want people to buy the new skills. At 5% it's not even noticeable.
what happened to the skills breakdown in the UI which adds up all of the points for a given skill (tac/eng/sci)? Why was this removed? Makes it very difficult to get a side by side comparison or even to know where I stand.
Hey, just a heads-up guys, I'm going to replace this thread with a new one when our next build goes to Tribble, later this week. This one is getting unwieldy, and the next patch will invalidate some of the feedback it contains (addressed, or no longer applicable). This thread will be locked and un-stickied at that time.
Np, I admit I'm getting bogged down with the thread. When the new post rolls around, is there anything you'd like people to do in terms of posting to try and keep it more organized?
Had my first look at the new trees. i cannot say that it is easier to understand than the original skill system. If a ease of use is intended, a much better description(s) are needed along with definition of terms and even (actually, more than) an introduction to the math used. Please follow your own intentions and make the new skill system understandable to most if not all. Thank you.
Hey, just a heads-up guys, I'm going to replace this thread with a new one when our next build goes to Tribble, later this week. This one is getting unwieldy, and the next patch will invalidate some of the feedback it contains (addressed, or no longer applicable). This thread will be locked and un-stickied at that time.
@borticuscryptic With so many potential issues brought up in this thread, will the "Known Issues" log update to reflect whether work is still being done on them? If it isn't listed, but we still see problems on the new Tribble build, should we re-report them?
What I still don't have a handle on is, what is the consequence of not taking skill X? For example, what if I decide to skip on taking a control skill with the associated control resistance? Or what if I decide not to take any targeting skills? Am I at a minor disadvantage, or am I hosed? Don't know and can't tell yet. The system doesn't seem to give me any information in advance to base those kinds of decisions on.
I also couldn't help but notice the cooldown on the (SciCMDR) mod on fleet and reputation deflectors was cut in half from 10% to 5%... I'm all for balancing OP stuff, even if i like it, but this hardly seemed like a big issue unless you just really want people to buy the new skills. At 5% it's not even noticeable.
Ouch, another change that almost sneaked by unnoticed.
Tac Team ability seems underperforming on Tribble compared to Holodeck. (50% less)
All things that boost attack patterns on Holodeck such as e.g. the ROM Engine seem not to work on Tribble.
Please have a look, thank you.
See, as I said elsewhere, there was no need for the stealth-nerf to Attack Patterns. I tend to boost my Attack Patterns (from 100) to 130-140, with Rom Engines (+30, the main reason to have those), plus a extra +10 from a conn officer (only active for the duration of TT).
P.S. And now I just read my Rom Engives no longer offer the +30 Attack Patterns any more! Wait, wut?!? This is a MAJOR NERF. Almost as big as the Leech.
it is not nerf.
"Frankly, not sure why you're on a one man nerf campaign. "
Tac Team ability seems underperforming on Tribble compared to Holodeck. (50% less)
All things that boost attack patterns on Holodeck such as e.g. the ROM Engine seem not to work on Tribble.
Please have a look, thank you.
See, as I said elsewhere, there was no need for the stealth-nerf to Attack Patterns. I tend to boost my Attack Patterns (from 100) to 130-140, with Rom Engines (+30, the main reason to have those), plus a extra +10 from a conn officer (only active for the duration of TT).
P.S. And now I just read my Rom Engives no longer offer the +30 Attack Patterns any more! Wait, wut?!? This is a MAJOR NERF. Almost as big as the Leech.
it is not nerf.
Unless you come with, you know, an actual argument, stripping the +30 Attack Patterns from my Rom Engine, and removing the +10 from the Conn Officers. really *does* constitute a nerf. And a major one, at that.
The Romulan engines now get +26.2 to Starship Weapon Amplification (Crits) in place of the Attack Patterns at VR MK XII.
Formerly Known as Protector from June 2008 to June 20, 2012
Please enable us to buy a token with Zen to faction change a 25th Century FED to a TOS FED.
The attack pattern skill is gone completely from the game, there will be no boosting them anymore. The Romulan engines bonus now is +30 to weapon critical hit and severity skill. So like 2% crit chance and 6% crit severity to all weapons.
Tac Team ability seems underperforming on Tribble compared to Holodeck. (50% less)
All things that boost attack patterns on Holodeck such as e.g. the ROM Engine seem not to work on Tribble.
Please have a look, thank you.
See, as I said elsewhere, there was no need for the stealth-nerf to Attack Patterns. I tend to boost my Attack Patterns (from 100) to 130-140, with Rom Engines (+30, the main reason to have those), plus a extra +10 from a conn officer (only active for the duration of TT).
P.S. And now I just read my Rom Engives no longer offer the +30 Attack Patterns any more! Wait, wut?!? This is a MAJOR NERF. Almost as big as the Leech.
it is not nerf.
Unless you come with, you know, an actual argument, stripping the +30 Attack Patterns from my Rom Engine, and removing the +10 from the Conn Officers. really *does* constitute a nerf. And a major one, at that.
The Romulan engines now get +26.2 to Starship Weapon Amplification (Crits) in place of the Attack Patterns.
Hmm, well, that is not bad, really. Guess I should have hopped on Tribble and read the new stats first, before posting. My bad.
The attack pattern skill is gone completely from the game, there will be no boosting them anymore. The Romulan engines bonus now is +30 to weapon critical hit and severity skill. So like 2% crit chance and 6% crit severity to all weapons.
Yeah, I just got told. My fault really: I jumped the gun here. Sorry.
"+30 to weapon critical hit and severity skill." is wickedly huge, actually, LOL. I'll take that over the extra Attack Patterns every day!
On another note giving Tac team a flat 10/20/30% bonus to attack patterns and 4/6/8 seconds of shield distribution would go a long way to making it relevant at all ranks and remove some power creep.
It's actually quite simple: your base turn rate is the one listed for the ship in the shipyards, on the wiki, etc.. Your impulse skill boosts your final turn rate by up to 40% of that (0.4% per point of skill, each node gives +50/85/100 total skill), regardless of power level (for any B'rel, with a base turn of 23, this is +9.2 turn rate at 100 skill), the exact same way RCS works.
Power levels and the [Turn] engine mod, however, operate based on the (Base-3) figure that was also used for RCS and the skill before Legacy of Romulus. Each point of Engine power grants +1% of that Base-3, and [Turn] mods give +10% each. By increasing your Engine power from 50 to 100, your turn rate increased from 33 (23 + 50 * 0.01 * (23-3)) to 43 (23 + 100 * 0.01 * (23-3)), and adding Impulse 3 put in another +9.2 on top. All flat turn rate bonuses (i.e. Battle Cloak and some set bonuses, particularly Cruiser sets) are also added in at the end.
This is the same functionality as on Holodeck, other than that Holodeck's Impulse Thruster skill scales worse (+38% at 99 skill on T5/6 ships, less on lower tiers).
Speed math gets a little more complex when you're also dealing with different engine types, so I haven't yet calculated the details on how those work...
Thank you so much! I knew I was missing something and I knew it was going to be obvious. Missing relevant information and overthinking FTW!
If anything that means the new tooltip for explaining turn rate is better than the previous tooltip which was only 'increases impulse speed and turn'.
This does still leave the new tooltip being somewhat vague on speed. I know they can't put everything into a tooltip but considering impulse speed is something ridiculous like 5+ (engine speed + (Engine power -50) x modifiers)) before skill modifiers (and others, I think?) are applied, simply saying 'take 5 from your displayed speed and that's what this will modify' doesn't really tell anyone anything useful.
I do still love that everything revolves around a power level of 50, it makes things so much easier.
I once had the formula for shield resists written down in a forum thread, but that thread predates at least two major forum changes, and was no longer updateable.
I think it worked out to something like 35 % resists at 125 shield power or so? (shield power/357.12)
But that has no effect on regeneration.
That sounds remarkably familiar and may even be the (original) one I was thinking of, so thank you for the reminder and the original post. When was that anyway, sometime near Season 4?
This is one of those mechanics I would've loved to actually have a value for and see working for myself, but that's a fairly tall order and would bog down the stats UI quite a bit along side armour resists. Worth it for Tribble, perhaps not so much for Holodeck
Both these points make me think that perhaps asking for a stats dump and UI update by the devs isn't all that unreasonable, especially for testing purposes. Yes, it's a big issue that they'll have to discuss and probably at length as they don't want to give out too much and have people (further) break the game with the information released. Not doing so however wastes the time (and space, given my no-so-short foruming) people are giving up to do free testing for them, even if some of the little rewards are nice to have... (I still love the Nukara and Solonae tribbles, say what you want...)
What everyone buying Zen are really saying while all these bugs are still floating freely:
Stop new content until quality returns
Hey @borticuscryptic, do you know if the formulas for TBR1, 2, and 3 are all correct? With all the other abilities affected by part gens, the difference between 1, and 2, and then 2 and 3 are the same (When at 100 Aux and 0 skill). With TBR, the pattern breaks.
Damage control - the way I saw it, you can never get your old passive hull regen values (with full crew) back, not even with 3 points, so I won't put there anything. After all, how reliant are you on passive hull regen at the moment?
Shield regen - saw slight increase, compared to holodeck values, even with 0 points in tribble. Really-really hoping it's intended.
I usually consider hull repair kind of a big deal. I am left with a few questions, though, it seems.
1) Active hull heals (HE/MW/ET, and such) shouldn't be affected by Damage Control, right? In fact, what, under the new system, actually *does* control that?
2) Hull heals from consoles and/or space sets, I reckon, should be considered Active too, right?
I also couldn't help but notice the cooldown on the (SciCMDR) mod on fleet and reputation deflectors was cut in half from 10% to 5%... I'm all for balancing OP stuff, even if i like it, but this hardly seemed like a big issue unless you just really want people to buy the new skills. At 5% it's not even noticeable.
Awesome. The fundamentally ABSURD split in performance between "I just want play this game" and "I gave up and joined some faceless fleet because the game &(%$ing DEMANDS that I do so to have top-tier equipment" is my number one issue with STO design.
I also couldn't help but notice the cooldown on the (SciCMDR) mod on fleet and reputation deflectors was cut in half from 10% to 5%... I'm all for balancing OP stuff, even if i like it, but this hardly seemed like a big issue unless you just really want people to buy the new skills. At 5% it's not even noticeable.
Awesome. The fundamentally ABSURD split in performance between "I just want play this game" and "I gave up and joined some faceless fleet because the game &(%$ing DEMANDS that I do so to have top-tier equipment" is my number one issue with STO design.
That has not been the case in quite some time. Reputation gear has been as good or better now for awhile. That and the mod in question is present on reputation gear as well.
why is tactical team so much lower than on tribble than holodeck Rank1 on holodeck gives +18 energy weapons and +18 projectile when on tribble is +9 for both. Also with no attack pattern skill that is removed completely from TT
why is tactical team so much lower than on tribble than holodeck
Looks like the Crew conversion didn't get calculated correctly for Tactical Team. We'll fix that in a future patch, so that it returns to behaving the same as if you had 100% of your Crew under the previous system. (It used to scale down to half of it's value when your Crew was at 25% or lower).
Jeremy Randall
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
why is tactical team so much lower than on tribble than holodeck
Looks like the Crew conversion didn't get calculated correctly for Tactical Team. We'll fix that in a future patch, so that it returns to behaving the same as if you had 100% of your Crew under the previous system. (It used to scale down to half of it's value when your Crew was at 25% or lower).
You know I never noticed that.... Well since I was usually at 0 Crew Always because it well Sucked.. I should be Getting a Pretty Hefty Boost! Woot!
Awesome. The fundamentally ABSURD split in performance between "I just want play this game" and "I gave up and joined some faceless fleet because the game &(%$ing DEMANDS that I do so to have top-tier equipment" is my number one issue with STO design.
That has not been the case in quite some time. Reputation gear has been as good or better now for awhile. That and the mod in question is present on reputation gear as well.
Oh? Which Rep vendor offers the Vulnerability Locator/Exploiter consoles? 'Cause I'd like to pick up a couple.
Wouldn't break my heart if my I could fleet-up my Eclipse Intel Cruiser that I paid 3,000z for when the T6 flagships only cost me 1,111z each without having to join a fleet either.
Awesome. The fundamentally ABSURD split in performance between "I just want play this game" and "I gave up and joined some faceless fleet because the game &(%$ing DEMANDS that I do so to have top-tier equipment" is my number one issue with STO design.
That has not been the case in quite some time. Reputation gear has been as good or better now for awhile. That and the mod in question is present on reputation gear as well.
Oh? Which Rep vendor offers the Vulnerability Locator/Exploiter consoles? 'Cause I'd like to pick up a couple.
Wouldn't break my heart if my I could fleet-up my Eclipse Intel Cruiser that I paid 3,000z for when the T6 flagships only cost me 1,111z each without having to join a fleet either.
There's a channel to get invites to fleets to get the consoles. If you want to Fleet up your Eclipse and have a fleet mod, you can send me a PM. My 1 person fleet is just high enough to get a Eclipse (that's how I got mine) and I have a dozen or so ship provisions banked as well. No cost to you, just temp join, get your ship, and leave.
Wouldn't break my heart if my I could fleet-up my Eclipse Intel Cruiser that I paid 3,000z for when the T6 flagships only cost me 1,111z each without having to join a fleet either.
There's a channel to get invites to fleets to get the consoles. If you want to Fleet up your Eclipse and have a fleet mod, you can send me a PM. My 1 person fleet is just high enough to get a Eclipse (that's how I got mine) and I have a dozen or so ship provisions banked as well. No cost to you, just temp join, get your ship, and leave.
Thank you. I might take you up on that offer . But again it largely points to 'why is the system even there then?' Its not an effective resource sink. It's just a huge PITA.
Thank you. I might take you up on that offer . But again it largely points to 'why is the system even there then?' Its not an effective resource sink. It's just a huge PITA.
Fleets are there because people want and expect to have 'clans' or some varient of them in every MMO in existance.
Tying gear to fleet holdings....maybe not the smartest idea; but not unheard of either. And it is an effective resource sink, if you've ever been in a fleet while they're grinding the holdings; wasting hundreds upon hundreds of thousands of dil, and committing mass genocide on common doffs to get access to those items, you'd realize just how effective of a resource sink it is.
Shield power doesn't have any effect on regeneration, it effects shield hardness. If you put your shield power all the way up to 125, you get 25% damage reduction.
If you put 3 points into the shield hardness skill, that increases it to 50% damage reduction.
Actually, if that still mirrors Holodeck even to a mild degree, shield power has always increased regeneration. 50 shield power = 100% regen rate of the shield, and for each power point + - from there, there's a 4% recharge difference.
From what I remember of the new Tribble skill, the effectiveness of the power subsystem is reduced in favour of granting a larger effect from skill investment.
EDIT - Just to add this for completeness.
50 shield power = Standard regeneration
25 shield power = Half regeneration
100 shield power = Double regeneration
125 shield power = Triple regeneration
Obviously the exact value of regeneration also has to take into account the shield type and it's intrinsic modifiers, before it's actual item modifiers...
Resists are a whole other thing for which there used to be a table somewhere on the old forums, which I have no idea how to get to now. I remember it was a simple formula like 'shield power/x = resist percentage from shield power'.
I just hopped on to Holodeck to check that out. This is what I'm seeing.
That's a bug in the UI. Shield power always boosted regen but it never shows on the stats page. Same for the consoles that boost shield regen they don't update the UI. But in combat you can see the shield regen work.
EDIT: Would be nice to see shield resistance and hardness as well but I don't think they are listed anywhere?
Comments
I also couldn't help but notice the cooldown on the (SciCMDR) mod on fleet and reputation deflectors was cut in half from 10% to 5%... I'm all for balancing OP stuff, even if i like it, but this hardly seemed like a big issue unless you just really want people to buy the new skills. At 5% it's not even noticeable.
Np, I admit I'm getting bogged down with the thread. When the new post rolls around, is there anything you'd like people to do in terms of posting to try and keep it more organized?
@borticuscryptic With so many potential issues brought up in this thread, will the "Known Issues" log update to reflect whether work is still being done on them? If it isn't listed, but we still see problems on the new Tribble build, should we re-report them?
Ouch, another change that almost sneaked by unnoticed.
it is not nerf.
The Romulan engines now get +26.2 to Starship Weapon Amplification (Crits) in place of the Attack Patterns at VR MK XII.
Please enable us to buy a token with Zen to faction change a 25th Century FED to a TOS FED.
It's like another borg/romulan console.
Hmm, well, that is not bad, really.
Yeah, I just got told. My fault really: I jumped the gun here. Sorry.
"+30 to weapon critical hit and severity skill." is wickedly huge, actually, LOL. I'll take that over the extra Attack Patterns every day!
Thank you so much! I knew I was missing something and I knew it was going to be obvious. Missing relevant information and overthinking FTW!
If anything that means the new tooltip for explaining turn rate is better than the previous tooltip which was only 'increases impulse speed and turn'.
This does still leave the new tooltip being somewhat vague on speed. I know they can't put everything into a tooltip but considering impulse speed is something ridiculous like 5+ (engine speed + (Engine power -50) x modifiers)) before skill modifiers (and others, I think?) are applied, simply saying 'take 5 from your displayed speed and that's what this will modify' doesn't really tell anyone anything useful.
I do still love that everything revolves around a power level of 50, it makes things so much easier.
That sounds remarkably familiar and may even be the (original) one I was thinking of, so thank you for the reminder and the original post. When was that anyway, sometime near Season 4?
This is one of those mechanics I would've loved to actually have a value for and see working for myself, but that's a fairly tall order and would bog down the stats UI quite a bit along side armour resists. Worth it for Tribble, perhaps not so much for Holodeck
Both these points make me think that perhaps asking for a stats dump and UI update by the devs isn't all that unreasonable, especially for testing purposes. Yes, it's a big issue that they'll have to discuss and probably at length as they don't want to give out too much and have people (further) break the game with the information released. Not doing so however wastes the time (and space, given my no-so-short foruming) people are giving up to do free testing for them, even if some of the little rewards are nice to have... (I still love the Nukara and Solonae tribbles, say what you want...)
Stop new content until quality returns
I usually consider hull repair kind of a big deal. I am left with a few questions, though, it seems.
1) Active hull heals (HE/MW/ET, and such) shouldn't be affected by Damage Control, right? In fact, what, under the new system, actually *does* control that?
2) Hull heals from consoles and/or space sets, I reckon, should be considered Active too, right?
Thanks.
Awesome. The fundamentally ABSURD split in performance between "I just want play this game" and "I gave up and joined some faceless fleet because the game &(%$ing DEMANDS that I do so to have top-tier equipment" is my number one issue with STO design.
That has not been the case in quite some time. Reputation gear has been as good or better now for awhile. That and the mod in question is present on reputation gear as well.
Looks like the Crew conversion didn't get calculated correctly for Tactical Team. We'll fix that in a future patch, so that it returns to behaving the same as if you had 100% of your Crew under the previous system. (It used to scale down to half of it's value when your Crew was at 25% or lower).
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
You know I never noticed that.... Well since I was usually at 0 Crew Always because it well Sucked.. I should be Getting a Pretty Hefty Boost! Woot!
Oh? Which Rep vendor offers the Vulnerability Locator/Exploiter consoles? 'Cause I'd like to pick up a couple.
Wouldn't break my heart if my I could fleet-up my Eclipse Intel Cruiser that I paid 3,000z for when the T6 flagships only cost me 1,111z each without having to join a fleet either.
There's a channel to get invites to fleets to get the consoles. If you want to Fleet up your Eclipse and have a fleet mod, you can send me a PM. My 1 person fleet is just high enough to get a Eclipse (that's how I got mine) and I have a dozen or so ship provisions banked as well. No cost to you, just temp join, get your ship, and leave.
Thank you. I might take you up on that offer
Fleets are there because people want and expect to have 'clans' or some varient of them in every MMO in existance.
Tying gear to fleet holdings....maybe not the smartest idea; but not unheard of either. And it is an effective resource sink, if you've ever been in a fleet while they're grinding the holdings; wasting hundreds upon hundreds of thousands of dil, and committing mass genocide on common doffs to get access to those items, you'd realize just how effective of a resource sink it is.
Has anyone tested it?
EDIT: Would be nice to see shield resistance and hardness as well but I don't think they are listed anywhere?