I have been trying out the new skill tree. So far, the only thing I can see is that 45 points may not be enough to maintain my current build on Holodeck. There is not enough versatility. I find that I now have to sacrifice some points in say, power subsystems so that I can grab something in Weapon damage or visa versa. I thought that this was going to be a reskin of the current layout that is live. Some people have spent a lot of resources to obtain items like the plasmonic leech, only to find now that in order to max out drain expertise, I would have to sacrifice points in subsystem power or weapon proficiency, things I currently maxed out on holodeck.
I've love to hear a concise side-by-side analysis, for the build(s) you're attempting to replicate. We still have time to consider moving node clusters, for example, if doing so is deemed necessary.
It's honestly not reasonable to presume that we can meet the needs of 100% of our players in this regard, but we're going to do our best to get as close as possible.
The ultimate passives at the end of any given tree are ok, but are going to be unobtainable by a large portion of the community, unless some of the important systems are left out of their choices. Trying to replicate my current build on holodeck, I am 3 or 4 points shy of obtaining the first rank of ultimate, so I will most likely never see it, and without knowing exactly the value per rank of the ultimate passives, it is hard to make a determination.
Two things:
1) I don't expect most players to push for Ultimates, at the cost of a build they prefer.
2) The Ultimates are there to tempt you into trying something that IS NOT your current build. Branch out, experiment.
I will do some additional research and report back with a more detailed side by side ;-)
The first two ranks of this have upgrade centered around Hangars. One problem. No one below Lv 40 will have a hangar. And even then, only Klingons & Romulans. While I'm all for giving those guys love, this doesn't help ~90% of players w/out hangars unless they're going for a Stealthy ship (ala Bird of Prey) or a Threat Control Tank.
Here's how I would redesign it.
Energy Crit Chance -> Projectile Crit Chance => Threat Control => Starship Stealth
OR
Energy Crit Dmg => Projectile Crit Damage => Pet Health => Hangar Weaponry
Everyone can use Crit increases, but not everyone will use threat control, ship stealth, or pet based buffs. This makes the tree more effective for all players. I will continue to analyze the others will additional feedback.
Very good point.
I just redid that. Both ranks of Pet boosts should be mutually exclusive. Pets already way to OP. And Threat Control and Ship Stealth affect more players.
The first two ranks of this have upgrade centered around Hangars. One problem. No one below Lv 40 will have a hangar. And even then, only Klingons & Romulans. While I'm all for giving those guys love, this doesn't help ~90% of players w/out hangars unless they're going for a Stealthy ship (ala Bird of Prey) or a Threat Control Tank.
Here's how I would redesign it.
Energy Crit Chance -> Projectile Crit Chance => Threat Control => Starship Stealth
OR
Energy Crit Dmg => Projectile Crit Damage => Pet Health => Hangar Weaponry
Everyone can use Crit increases, but not everyone will use threat control, ship stealth, or pet based buffs. This makes the tree more effective for all players. I will continue to analyze the others will additional feedback.
Very good point.
Id like to see a Change to the Level 1 Tac Skills
Merge Levels 1 of Energy Weapon and Projectile Training into One ability that Applies +50 of Each. then have it split into the Remaining 2 of each. Give people a Base Boost to both, for the price of one. While still allowing them to Spec More into another.
These are for newer Players, Give them a chance to try a boosted version of both.
Same thing with T2. Merge the Level one of the Acc/Defense into One. That then Branches for Levels 2/3.
This would provide us the opportunity to make 2 new points.
Maybe, something like......
Torpedo Hits, Provide a small stacking debuff to Kinetic Resist.
Energy Hits, Provide a small stacking debuff to Energy Resist (of that type, or all whatever is easier).
Maybe something that would reduce CD's on Beam/Torp Boff Powers by .5 sec - 2 Seconds Based on level. (.5 at lvl 10. scaling to 2 Seconds at Level 50)
1) iirc, it was your intent to replace "Particle Generators" with "Exotic Particle Generator". However, I've noticed a few places that still reference the old terminology. So far, specifically, they are the Astrophysicist Trait, the Dyson Deflector Array and the Counter Command Deflector Array.
2) I love how the skills list what each point contributes ( as well as the sum total at the bottom ), however, a few skills are lacking this. Energy and Projectile Weapon Training in Space, and Weapon Proficiency in Ground.
3) While I hate to mention it, since I love the science stuff.. It looks like when you folks did the deflector conversion, it was mostly done in an additive way. this ends up with some truly impressive stats for drain and control: +52.5 Drain Expertise and +26.2 Control Expertise on the Terran Task Force Deflector ( at mk xii ) If that was your intent.. then hurray! But It seems too good to be true to me, which is usually a warning sign.
4) Lastly, was it your intent to reduce the sum skill values in the Ship Status page? Or, well, skill sums in general? This makes it a bit difficult to tell what the effects of equipment are.
1) iirc, it was your intent to replace "Particle Generators" with "Exotic Particle Generator". However, I've noticed a few places that still reference the old terminology. So far, specifically, they are the Astrophysicist Trait, the Dyson Deflector Array and the Counter Command Deflector Array.
Thanks for the list of misses! There were bound to be some, and we'll clean them as quick as possible.
2) I love how the skills list what each point contributes ( as well as the sum total at the bottom ), however, a few skills are lacking this. Energy and Projectile Weapon Training in Space, and Weapon Proficiency in Ground.
The simple reason for this is that 'clean' definitions that work at every level, for all characters, don't really exist. So finding a way to explain the underlying mechanics in a way that works for everyone is a difficult task. One that we haven't abandoned, and are still trying to overcome.
3) While I hate to mention it, since I love the science stuff.. It looks like when you folks did the deflector conversion, it was mostly done in an additive way. this ends up with some truly impressive stats for drain and control: +52.5 Drain Expertise and +26.2 Control Expertise on the Terran Task Force Deflector ( at mk xii ) If that was your intent.. then hurray! But It seems too good to be true to me, which is usually a warning sign.
Intended. At least for the first pass. What you're seeing right now is a 1:1 conversion of Old Skills to New Skills.
If this results in too much gear that gives too great a benefit to too many things, we may end up altering some of those bonuses, or spreading them out. But we haven't yet decided on that front. You can help us make that decision by offering feedback on specific pieces of gear that you think might be problematic post-conversion.
4) Lastly, was it your intent to reduce the sum skill values in the Ship Status page? Or, well, skill sums in general? This makes it a bit difficult to tell what the effects of equipment are.
For now they were disabled while we take the time to update them. Hopefully they'll re-appear shortly.
Jeremy Randall
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
It looks like I have to give up half of my skills as there are not enough points to go around to keep what I current have yet alone get new stuff.
At the moment I have a bonus in star ship defense, all projectiles skills, targeting, all shield skills, all armor skills, all hull skills, Aux performance, warp core potential, star ship hull repair, Electro plasma systems.
Going to log in again and see if I can improve things but right now I cannot see how I can take the current skills I have into the new system without losing a lot.
EDIT: Here is a link to the skill tree I am trying to reproduce. postimg.org/image/6plyn39v9/ I am ok with losing star ship energy weapons in the new tree as I don't need it. But I would like to keep access to the shield, hull, amour, power skills.
Solid suggestion. I'll take it into consideration.
I don't like how he shifted Energy and Projectiles. Projectiles are the damage dealers for low level characters and should stay the lower option if this were to happen.
It looks like I have to give up half of my skills as there are not enough points to go around to keep what I current have yet alone get new stuff.
At the moment I have a bonus in star ship defense, all projectiles skills, targeting, all shield skills, all armor skills, all hull skills, Aux performance, warp core potential, star ship hull repair, Electro plasma systems.
Going to log in again and see if I can improve things but right now I cannot see how I can take the current skills I have into the new system without losing a lot.
I'm not Bort, but could you please be specific? I haven't tried copying any of my current trees over (it's my plan for later tonight), but the one I made for my Tribble character seems just as versatile as my Holodeck characters. I skimped a bit on the Hull/Shield HP skills, I've yet to see how that will affect my builds, but only because I didn't need to pad out skill points like I used to have to to unlock Captain/Admiral rank skills.
Ok, I've looked at the other two "Unlock Trees" (Seriously, do we have an official name for them? I keep getting them confused with Traits and the Fallout-style Perks, we need a distinctive name here or all hell is gonna break loose in a Whose on First? manner).
Both are far more balanced than the Tactical one, but I see some issues:
Engineering Unlocks (Current):
SubSystem Repair => Battery Expertise => Weapon SubSys Power => Max Hull Cap
OR
Engine Power => Aux SubSy Power => Shield SubSystm Power => Dmg Res Rating
I want to juggle this around a bit to benefit the most people of the most classes first, with engineers and heavy tanks last
Engineering Unlocks (Proposed):
Weapon SubSys Power => Engine Power => Battery Expertise => Max Hull Cap
OR
Shield Sub Sys Power => Aux Power => SubSystm Repair => DMG Res Rating
Everyone needs Weapons or Shields at low level, Science and Escort Captains come into their own at mid-levels, so Aux/Eng choice there works better, Batteries vs SubSystem Repair drives Engineers in to a deeper choice, and the last set were fine as is as they mostly effect Engineering heavy tanks.
Science Unlocks (Current):
Ship Perception => Sector Spc Travel => SubSystem EnDrn Res => Max Shield Cap
OR
Control Resists => Transwarp CD Rd => Shield Drain Resistnc => Shield Hardness
This one is just all over the place. Everything's got a good counterpart, but it doesn't seem to think about crossover rolls or what matters to people. Revised version below.
Science Unlocks (Proposed):
Sector Spc Travel => SubSystem EnDrn Res => Ship Perception => Max Shield Cap
OR
Transwarp CD Rd => Shield Drain Resistnc => Control Resists => Shield Hardness
The logic I went for this one needs some explaining.
Rank 1: Sector Space Travel affects every class and player in the game. There's no reason for this to be a Rank 2 skill when it provides no combat or mission bonus.
Rank 2: Resistences to Shield and Subsystem drains are important at early/moderate levels, especially with the Gorn and Nausicaan powers being thrown around. And then there's the Romulan D'Ds which mess up everyone, and the Cardassians with the Spiral Wave Disruptors who can disable subsystems, plus the Borg's Shield Drain, and so on, so this should be relatively easily accessible to a wide range of builds, especially with the Federation's focus on Phasers. (This would be a slight Phaser buff as a result).
Rank 3: Ultimately, we're coming into a more precision build here, with focus on perceiving ships under cloaks and from far distances and dealing with control effects like Grav Well. These aren't essential, but they are very nice buffs to have and work on a variety of builds.
Rank 4: Dedicated Shield Tanks will use these the most. All others need not apply.
Solid suggestion. I'll take it into consideration.
I don't like how he shifted Energy and Projectiles. Projectiles are the damage dealers for low level characters and should stay the lower option if this were to happen.
Ultimately, however, Projectiles lose effectiveness on the average build as the player levels up, the idea was to, however, think of endgame characters as well as late game characters. This arrangement would give Energy weapons needed buffs at low levels to keep up with Projectiles in the 1-20 game level as well prove competitively viable at 20-60 gameplay.
Projectiles being the rank 2 option would let projectiles keep pace around the time they start losing effectiveness letting low level players more graceful adapt to the endgame playstyle without hitting that Torpedo brick wall.
EDIT: Here is a link to the skill tree I am trying to reproduce. postimg.org/image/6plyn39v9/ I am ok with losing star ship energy weapons in the new tree as I don't need it. But I would like to keep access to the shield, hull, amour, power skills.
I was able to replicate this build with 6 Space Points left over. I don't think I overlooked anything, other than that one pip in Flow Capacitors.
Defensive Power Levels-2
Offensive Power Levels-2
Weapon Specialization-3
Weapon Amp-3
Targeting Sensors-3
Admiral:
Warp Core Potential-3
Tactical Readiness-3
So, what I see here in the new system, I am unable to max out hull and shield capacity and unable to max out all the power to subsystem abilities. I was also unable to max out the Shield Pen but I do understand that is a new skill so it is not a big deal. With that current build on tribble, I was able to obtain Tactical Ultimate, which great, just not the Frenzied Reaction that I was shooting for. I am thinking I could drop the 2 points in Shield Pen, and allocate those to the 2 I am missing in the subsystem power levels. Which would leave me with the points missing for Shield and Hull Capacity but then I would lose the Tactical Ultimate..
I would recommend combing the Shield and Hull Capacities into a single 3 stage skill called "Capacities" instead of the 2 separate 3 stage that they are currently. That would allow for a few points to be allocated to the new skills introduced with the system. I would also recommend combining the Offensive and Defensive Power level increases into just one 3 part skill. Having to dump six points into power levels takes away quite a bit. As it is on holodeck now, this is not an issue.
I think there's a good point that skills which will be useful to the most players in all professions need to be accessible early in the trees so that people are less likely to be forced to waste a point (or two) or pass on the skill completely.
That, or break common skills out into their own tree. Which is not a bad option, IMO.
So that brings us to trying to define what skills every starship captain ought to know. I'd call it the Command tree if that didn't clash with the Command specialization. I'll have to wait until I can actually get into Tribble to see what those ought to be.
3) While I hate to mention it, since I love the science stuff.. It looks like when you folks did the deflector conversion, it was mostly done in an additive way. this ends up with some truly impressive stats for drain and control: +52.5 Drain Expertise and +26.2 Control Expertise on the Terran Task Force Deflector ( at mk xii ) If that was your intent.. then hurray! But It seems too good to be true to me, which is usually a warning sign.
Remember, they lowered the effect of Aux at the high end. Until I'm able to copy a toon to Tribble, I can't even comment if this change is a boost or not since Tachyon Beam, Energy Siphon, and Tyken's Rift all use Aux to boost the drain.
Also, NPCs should get interesting results off joining effect with resistance.
EDIT: Here is a link to the skill tree I am trying to reproduce. postimg.org/image/6plyn39v9/ I am ok with losing star ship energy weapons in the new tree as I don't need it. But I would like to keep access to the shield, hull, amour, power skills.
I was able to replicate this build with 6 Space Points left over. I don't think I overlooked anything, other than that one pip in Flow Capacitors.
It's worth noting that both Resistance and Weapon Critical skills give more benefit per Skill Point in the new system.
It could just be I have misunderstood the ratio changes between the skills my old build had defence, targeting, crit chance, crit damage skills all maxed out. But if I drop energy weapons I can take them all.
Part of the problem is you could max out hull, amour, shields, weapons and other skills in the old system. In the new system you just cannot do that so even when you have the same power level as before it feels like you have to give up something. For example I had every single shield skill in the old system. In the new system I have to give up half the shield skills even though half the shield skills is about the same as the old system.
At first glance its not clear which skills give more of a benefit the old skills. I thought I had to take all the new defense, targeting, crit chance, crit damage skills to match my old skills in that.
Part of the problem is you could max out hull, amour, shields, weapons and other skills in the old system. In the new system you just cannot do that so even when you have the same power level as before it feels like you have to give up something. For example I had every single shield skill in the old system. In the new system I have to give up half the shield skills even though half the shield skills is about the same as the old system.
Are you certain? Did you try? Did you look at my linked photo of the build I created that mirrored your own?
I feel like you're making assumptions based on some level of misunderstanding, without actually testing your theories.
Jeremy Randall
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
Projectiles being the rank 2 option would let projectiles keep pace around the time they start losing effectiveness letting low level players more graceful adapt to the endgame playstyle without hitting that Torpedo brick wall.
This makes sense, however, I also think of Science Vessel captains, who would benefit far more from an easily obtained Torpedo buff than an energy weapon one. I'll have to put together more test trees, my "Science" character I built on Tribble is actually really tac-heavy, so I got up to rank...3, I think? in that Tactical progression. (And agreed that we really need an official name for these.)
Part of the problem is you could max out hull, amour, shields, weapons and other skills in the old system. In the new system you just cannot do that so even when you have the same power level as before it feels like you have to give up something. For example I had every single shield skill in the old system. In the new system I have to give up half the shield skills even though half the shield skills is about the same as the old system.
Are you certain? Did you try? Did you look at my linked photo of the build I created that mirrored your own?
I feel like you're making assumptions based on some level of misunderstanding, without actually testing your theories.
I had max shield skills in the old system. In your screenshot there are 6 shield skills missing.
I had max crit skills in the old system. In your screenshot there are 4 missing.
I had max defense and targeting in the old system in your screenshot there are 6 missing.
With 6 skill points unspent that puts me on negative 10 without counting the new Admiral skills.
It’s no longer possible to max out all the same systems as before. It looks like we can mostly recreate the old power level but we cannot max out the same systems that we used to have maxed out.
As you can see, I am unable to take the extra electro plasma, warp core efficiency and the shield and hull capacity.
Maybe you can combine the shield and hull capacity into one, 3 part skill and combine the Offensive and Defensive power level increase six part skill into just one?
I had max shield skills in the old system. In your screenshot there are 6 shield skills missing.
The Shield skills not purchased in my screenshot are: Shield Regeneration
Shield Hardness
Neither exist in the old system.
I had max crit skills in the old system. In your screenshot there are 4 missing.
The new Skills grant greater benefit with a single node than the old Skills did with 9 points spent.
I had max defense and targeting in the old system in your screenshot there are 6 missing.
The Weapon Tac Skills not purchased in my screenshot are: Hull Penetration
Shield Penetration
Neither exist in the old system.
I'm not out to get you, or on a crusade to prove you wrong here, pottsey. Just trying to make sure you're understanding the system in its entirety. I need everyone - especially the early Tribble Testers - to be able to share correct information with others if they discuss the system elsewhere.
Jeremy Randall
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
I think a problem here may just be that players don't realize how much better some of these skills are than the old ones. I know when I was doing the critical skills, I wasn't aware that they were better than the ones currently on holodeck, so I'm probably getting a lot more out of those than any of my holodeck characters do. My mistake for not comparing values there.
crit hit and crit damage from skills is not being added to base crit stats
couple concerns, haven't had a chance to test the flow/pg/grav from embassy consoles yet... or the threat amp/nul
one thing that really glared out at me is the lack of Driver Coil at low level. This is actually one of the first skills that i try and fill out because it helps out big time with travel times and with power levels leaving full impulse at those starting levels.
it's not such a big deal when you level and get better Warp/sing cores and some points into EPS, but at the start it really hurts not having this ability.
* "Attack Patterns" no longer exists, so there's no equivalence. However, any abilities you had that scaled from that skill have been altered so that the now behave, baseline, as if you had +100 Attack Patterns skill in the old system.
* "Weapons Training" is no longer a skill. It's something that all players just get naturally. So there's no equivalent, but it's also "free" now.
* Under the translation that I posted, you'll end up with slightly more Shield Capacity, as well as gaining a boatload of resistance to Drain effects.
* I just noticed that I didn't buy Hull Plating in my translation, but there are enough leftover points here to do so.
I think that, overall, you're going to come out ahead here...
Jeremy Randall
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
Projectiles being the rank 2 option would let projectiles keep pace around the time they start losing effectiveness letting low level players more graceful adapt to the endgame playstyle without hitting that Torpedo brick wall.
This makes sense, however, I also think of Science Vessel captains, who would benefit far more from an easily obtained Torpedo buff than an energy weapon one. I'll have to put together more test trees, my "Science" character I built on Tribble is actually really tac-heavy, so I got up to rank...3, I think? in that Tactical progression. (And agreed that we really need an official name for these.)
I actually did consider this. However, factoring in literally every other class and ship type, as well as the fact that we also have the Energy Wep heavy (and very popular) Vesta-class, the nudge pushed it over to the Energy Weps. Needs of the Many and all that jazz.
* "Attack Patterns" no longer exists, so there's no equivalence. However, any abilities you had that scaled from that skill have been altered so that the now behave, baseline, as if you had +100 Attack Patterns skill in the old system.
* "Weapons Training" is no longer a skill. It's something that all players just get naturally. So there's no equivalent, but it's also "free" now.
* Under the translation that I posted, you'll end up with slightly more Shield Capacity, as well as gaining a boatload of resistance to Drain effects.
* I just noticed that I didn't buy Hull Plating in my translation, but there are enough leftover points here to do so.
I think that, overall, you're going to come out ahead here...
Thank you Borticus for the screenshot. I will give that build a try. I am beginning to realize exactly what is going on now, that you mention the removal of the attack patterns and weapons training skills. :-)
I had max shield skills in the old system. In your screenshot there are 6 shield skills missing.
The Shield skills not purchased in my screenshot are: Shield Regeneration
Shield Hardness
Neither exist in the old system.
I had max crit skills in the old system. In your screenshot there are 4 missing.
The new Skills grant greater benefit with a single node than the old Skills did with 9 points spent.
I had max defense and targeting in the old system in your screenshot there are 6 missing.
The Weapon Tac Skills not purchased in my screenshot are: Hull Penetration
Shield Penetration
Neither exist in the old system.
I'm not out to get you, or on a crusade to prove you wrong here, pottsey. Just trying to make sure you're understanding the system in its entirety. I need everyone - especially the early Tribble Testers - to be able to share correct information with others if they discuss the system elsewhere.
I need to apologies as I misread your screenshot, sorry. I was reading lt commander with the targeting skills/defense skills then looked at your screenshot with commander level and spotted no points spent. So I thought you missed 6 skills. I missed the lt bit in the UI.
““The new Skills grant greater benefit with a single node than the old Skills did with 9 points spent.”
Is there any chance in a future blog or here you could say how many points in the new systems around about matches maxed out skills in the old systems for nodes that have changed? For example projectile specialization maxed out used to boost crit damage and chance. How many points in the new systems is equal to the old maxed out skills? Just how much better is the new node?
Is there any chance in a future blog or here you could say how many points in the new systems around about matches maxed out skills in the old systems for nodes that have changed? For example projectile specialization maxed out used to boost crit damage and chance. How many points in the new systems is equal to the old maxed out skills? Just how much better is the new node?
No, because those values are subject to change. We try not to put too many fine details into dev blogs, so that what goes out initially and what actually ends up launching are as much identical as possible.
Jeremy Randall
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
Comments
I will do some additional research and report back with a more detailed side by side ;-)
I just redid that. Both ranks of Pet boosts should be mutually exclusive. Pets already way to OP. And Threat Control and Ship Stealth affect more players.
TRIBBLE Hydra! Hail Janeway!
Solid suggestion. I'll take it into consideration.
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
Id like to see a Change to the Level 1 Tac Skills
Merge Levels 1 of Energy Weapon and Projectile Training into One ability that Applies +50 of Each. then have it split into the Remaining 2 of each. Give people a Base Boost to both, for the price of one. While still allowing them to Spec More into another.
These are for newer Players, Give them a chance to try a boosted version of both.
Same thing with T2. Merge the Level one of the Acc/Defense into One. That then Branches for Levels 2/3.
This would provide us the opportunity to make 2 new points.
Maybe, something like......
1) iirc, it was your intent to replace "Particle Generators" with "Exotic Particle Generator". However, I've noticed a few places that still reference the old terminology. So far, specifically, they are the Astrophysicist Trait, the Dyson Deflector Array and the Counter Command Deflector Array.
2) I love how the skills list what each point contributes ( as well as the sum total at the bottom ), however, a few skills are lacking this. Energy and Projectile Weapon Training in Space, and Weapon Proficiency in Ground.
3) While I hate to mention it, since I love the science stuff.. It looks like when you folks did the deflector conversion, it was mostly done in an additive way. this ends up with some truly impressive stats for drain and control: +52.5 Drain Expertise and +26.2 Control Expertise on the Terran Task Force Deflector ( at mk xii ) If that was your intent.. then hurray! But It seems too good to be true to me, which is usually a warning sign.
4) Lastly, was it your intent to reduce the sum skill values in the Ship Status page? Or, well, skill sums in general? This makes it a bit difficult to tell what the effects of equipment are.
From the launcher, I select Tribble as an option, patch it, and launch, but get an error message saying:
Unrecognized Command
"" C:/...Star Trek Online_en/Star Trek Online/Playtest/Game Client.exe ""
Did You Mean
"-" C:/...Star Trek Online_en/Star Trek Online/Playtest/Game Client.exe
and sometimes a DGXI_Device_Error_Hung after I confirm the second path above as correct
Went to the bug report part of the forum, and couldn't find a new thread (as of Friday) in which it seemed relevant to post
You went to the Wrong Bug Report Section, as there was a Thread about this this morning.
http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/startrekonline/#/discussion/1212078/unable-to-access-tribble
Thanks, and apologies...I figured this thread would be more active/attended to more quickly, and thus have a link. Onward to testing
Thanks for the list of misses! There were bound to be some, and we'll clean them as quick as possible.
The simple reason for this is that 'clean' definitions that work at every level, for all characters, don't really exist. So finding a way to explain the underlying mechanics in a way that works for everyone is a difficult task. One that we haven't abandoned, and are still trying to overcome.
Intended. At least for the first pass. What you're seeing right now is a 1:1 conversion of Old Skills to New Skills.
If this results in too much gear that gives too great a benefit to too many things, we may end up altering some of those bonuses, or spreading them out. But we haven't yet decided on that front. You can help us make that decision by offering feedback on specific pieces of gear that you think might be problematic post-conversion.
For now they were disabled while we take the time to update them. Hopefully they'll re-appear shortly.
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
At the moment I have a bonus in star ship defense, all projectiles skills, targeting, all shield skills, all armor skills, all hull skills, Aux performance, warp core potential, star ship hull repair, Electro plasma systems.
Going to log in again and see if I can improve things but right now I cannot see how I can take the current skills I have into the new system without losing a lot.
EDIT: Here is a link to the skill tree I am trying to reproduce. postimg.org/image/6plyn39v9/ I am ok with losing star ship energy weapons in the new tree as I don't need it. But I would like to keep access to the shield, hull, amour, power skills.
I don't like how he shifted Energy and Projectiles. Projectiles are the damage dealers for low level characters and should stay the lower option if this were to happen.
I'm not Bort, but could you please be specific? I haven't tried copying any of my current trees over (it's my plan for later tonight), but the one I made for my Tribble character seems just as versatile as my Holodeck characters. I skimped a bit on the Hull/Shield HP skills, I've yet to see how that will affect my builds, but only because I didn't need to pad out skill points like I used to have to to unlock Captain/Admiral rank skills.
Both are far more balanced than the Tactical one, but I see some issues:
Engineering Unlocks (Current):
SubSystem Repair => Battery Expertise => Weapon SubSys Power => Max Hull Cap
OR
Engine Power => Aux SubSy Power => Shield SubSystm Power => Dmg Res Rating
I want to juggle this around a bit to benefit the most people of the most classes first, with engineers and heavy tanks last
Engineering Unlocks (Proposed):
Weapon SubSys Power => Engine Power => Battery Expertise => Max Hull Cap
OR
Shield Sub Sys Power => Aux Power => SubSystm Repair => DMG Res Rating
Everyone needs Weapons or Shields at low level, Science and Escort Captains come into their own at mid-levels, so Aux/Eng choice there works better, Batteries vs SubSystem Repair drives Engineers in to a deeper choice, and the last set were fine as is as they mostly effect Engineering heavy tanks.
Science Unlocks (Current):
Ship Perception => Sector Spc Travel => SubSystem EnDrn Res => Max Shield Cap
OR
Control Resists => Transwarp CD Rd => Shield Drain Resistnc => Shield Hardness
This one is just all over the place. Everything's got a good counterpart, but it doesn't seem to think about crossover rolls or what matters to people. Revised version below.
Science Unlocks (Proposed):
Sector Spc Travel => SubSystem EnDrn Res => Ship Perception => Max Shield Cap
OR
Transwarp CD Rd => Shield Drain Resistnc => Control Resists => Shield Hardness
The logic I went for this one needs some explaining.
Rank 1: Sector Space Travel affects every class and player in the game. There's no reason for this to be a Rank 2 skill when it provides no combat or mission bonus.
Rank 2: Resistences to Shield and Subsystem drains are important at early/moderate levels, especially with the Gorn and Nausicaan powers being thrown around. And then there's the Romulan D'Ds which mess up everyone, and the Cardassians with the Spiral Wave Disruptors who can disable subsystems, plus the Borg's Shield Drain, and so on, so this should be relatively easily accessible to a wide range of builds, especially with the Federation's focus on Phasers. (This would be a slight Phaser buff as a result).
Rank 3: Ultimately, we're coming into a more precision build here, with focus on perceiving ships under cloaks and from far distances and dealing with control effects like Grav Well. These aren't essential, but they are very nice buffs to have and work on a variety of builds.
Rank 4: Dedicated Shield Tanks will use these the most. All others need not apply.
Ultimately, however, Projectiles lose effectiveness on the average build as the player levels up, the idea was to, however, think of endgame characters as well as late game characters. This arrangement would give Energy weapons needed buffs at low levels to keep up with Projectiles in the 1-20 game level as well prove competitively viable at 20-60 gameplay.
Projectiles being the rank 2 option would let projectiles keep pace around the time they start losing effectiveness letting low level players more graceful adapt to the endgame playstyle without hitting that Torpedo brick wall.
TRIBBLE Hydra! Hail Janeway!
I was able to replicate this build with 6 Space Points left over. I don't think I overlooked anything, other than that one pip in Flow Capacitors.
http://imgur.com/mbuDtqL
It's worth noting that both Resistance and Weapon Critical skills give more benefit per Skill Point in the new system.
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
I went and compared my builds.
Holodeck points allotted:
Tactical System:
Attack Patterns-9
Starship Weapons Training-9
Starship Energy Weapons-9
Starship Projectile Weapons-9
Starship Manuevers-6
Starship Targeting-9
Starship Energy Wep Specialization-9
Starship Projectile Specialization-6
Engineering Systems:
Hull Plating-3
Structural Integrity-9
ElectroPlasma-6
Engine Performance-9
Impulse Thrusters-9
Warp Core Efficiency-9
Warp Core Potential-9
Shield Performance-9
Weapon Performance-9
Engine Performance-9
Science Systems:
Flow Capacitors-9
Shield Emitters-3
Starship Shield Systems=9
Tribble Points Alloted:
Lieutenant:
Energy Weapons Training-3
Projectile Weapons Training-3
Shield Capacity-1
Hull Capacity-1
Lieutenant Commander:
Hull Plating-2
Targeting Expertise-3
Defense Maneuvering-2
Commander:
ElectroPlasma-1
Impulse Thrusters-3
Drain Expertise-2
Hull Pen-3
Shield Pen-2
Captain:
Defensive Power Levels-2
Offensive Power Levels-2
Weapon Specialization-3
Weapon Amp-3
Targeting Sensors-3
Admiral:
Warp Core Potential-3
Tactical Readiness-3
So, what I see here in the new system, I am unable to max out hull and shield capacity and unable to max out all the power to subsystem abilities. I was also unable to max out the Shield Pen but I do understand that is a new skill so it is not a big deal. With that current build on tribble, I was able to obtain Tactical Ultimate, which great, just not the Frenzied Reaction that I was shooting for. I am thinking I could drop the 2 points in Shield Pen, and allocate those to the 2 I am missing in the subsystem power levels. Which would leave me with the points missing for Shield and Hull Capacity but then I would lose the Tactical Ultimate..
I would recommend combing the Shield and Hull Capacities into a single 3 stage skill called "Capacities" instead of the 2 separate 3 stage that they are currently. That would allow for a few points to be allocated to the new skills introduced with the system. I would also recommend combining the Offensive and Defensive Power level increases into just one 3 part skill. Having to dump six points into power levels takes away quite a bit. As it is on holodeck now, this is not an issue.
That, or break common skills out into their own tree. Which is not a bad option, IMO.
So that brings us to trying to define what skills every starship captain ought to know. I'd call it the Command tree if that didn't clash with the Command specialization. I'll have to wait until I can actually get into Tribble to see what those ought to be.
Remember, they lowered the effect of Aux at the high end. Until I'm able to copy a toon to Tribble, I can't even comment if this change is a boost or not since Tachyon Beam, Energy Siphon, and Tyken's Rift all use Aux to boost the drain.
Also, NPCs should get interesting results off joining effect with resistance.
While true, it didn't change by much.
Old Modifier @ 125 Aux = 1.1666666...
New Modifier @ 125 Aux = 1.125
Which is a difference of 0.0416666666...
It gets a little more pronounced if you're exceeding the 125 cap, but still not by a lot.
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
Part of the problem is you could max out hull, amour, shields, weapons and other skills in the old system. In the new system you just cannot do that so even when you have the same power level as before it feels like you have to give up something. For example I had every single shield skill in the old system. In the new system I have to give up half the shield skills even though half the shield skills is about the same as the old system.
At first glance its not clear which skills give more of a benefit the old skills. I thought I had to take all the new defense, targeting, crit chance, crit damage skills to match my old skills in that.
Are you certain? Did you try? Did you look at my linked photo of the build I created that mirrored your own?
I feel like you're making assumptions based on some level of misunderstanding, without actually testing your theories.
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
This makes sense, however, I also think of Science Vessel captains, who would benefit far more from an easily obtained Torpedo buff than an energy weapon one. I'll have to put together more test trees, my "Science" character I built on Tribble is actually really tac-heavy, so I got up to rank...3, I think? in that Tactical progression. (And agreed that we really need an official name for these.)
I had max shield skills in the old system. In your screenshot there are 6 shield skills missing.
I had max crit skills in the old system. In your screenshot there are 4 missing.
I had max defense and targeting in the old system in your screenshot there are 6 missing.
With 6 skill points unspent that puts me on negative 10 without counting the new Admiral skills.
It’s no longer possible to max out all the same systems as before. It looks like we can mostly recreate the old power level but we cannot max out the same systems that we used to have maxed out.
Current build Holodeck:
http://imgur.com/hXjWgFt
Current attempt to duplicate Tribble:
http://imgur.com/QGd7MCy
http://imgur.com/2aKDvZ1
As you can see, I am unable to take the extra electro plasma, warp core efficiency and the shield and hull capacity.
Maybe you can combine the shield and hull capacity into one, 3 part skill and combine the Offensive and Defensive power level increase six part skill into just one?
Thanks :-)
The Shield skills not purchased in my screenshot are:
Shield Regeneration
Shield Hardness
Neither exist in the old system.
The new Skills grant greater benefit with a single node than the old Skills did with 9 points spent.
The Weapon Tac Skills not purchased in my screenshot are:
Hull Penetration
Shield Penetration
Neither exist in the old system.
I'm not out to get you, or on a crusade to prove you wrong here, pottsey. Just trying to make sure you're understanding the system in its entirety. I need everyone - especially the early Tribble Testers - to be able to share correct information with others if they discuss the system elsewhere.
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
couple concerns, haven't had a chance to test the flow/pg/grav from embassy consoles yet... or the threat amp/nul
one thing that really glared out at me is the lack of Driver Coil at low level. This is actually one of the first skills that i try and fill out because it helps out big time with travel times and with power levels leaving full impulse at those starting levels.
it's not such a big deal when you level and get better Warp/sing cores and some points into EPS, but at the start it really hurts not having this ability.
Here's what I came up with:
http://imgur.com/Gks2a8A
A few things of note from this translation:
* "Attack Patterns" no longer exists, so there's no equivalence. However, any abilities you had that scaled from that skill have been altered so that the now behave, baseline, as if you had +100 Attack Patterns skill in the old system.
* "Weapons Training" is no longer a skill. It's something that all players just get naturally. So there's no equivalent, but it's also "free" now.
* Under the translation that I posted, you'll end up with slightly more Shield Capacity, as well as gaining a boatload of resistance to Drain effects.
* I just noticed that I didn't buy Hull Plating in my translation, but there are enough leftover points here to do so.
I think that, overall, you're going to come out ahead here...
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
I actually did consider this. However, factoring in literally every other class and ship type, as well as the fact that we also have the Energy Wep heavy (and very popular) Vesta-class, the nudge pushed it over to the Energy Weps. Needs of the Many and all that jazz.
TRIBBLE Hydra! Hail Janeway!
Thank you Borticus for the screenshot. I will give that build a try. I am beginning to realize exactly what is going on now, that you mention the removal of the attack patterns and weapons training skills. :-)
I need to apologies as I misread your screenshot, sorry. I was reading lt commander with the targeting skills/defense skills then looked at your screenshot with commander level and spotted no points spent. So I thought you missed 6 skills. I missed the lt bit in the UI.
““The new Skills grant greater benefit with a single node than the old Skills did with 9 points spent.”
Is there any chance in a future blog or here you could say how many points in the new systems around about matches maxed out skills in the old systems for nodes that have changed? For example projectile specialization maxed out used to boost crit damage and chance. How many points in the new systems is equal to the old maxed out skills? Just how much better is the new node?
No, because those values are subject to change. We try not to put too many fine details into dev blogs, so that what goes out initially and what actually ends up launching are as much identical as possible.
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"