People who aren't testing this on tribble will be at a huge disadvantage when it goes live. You cannot expect the entire player base to come learn the new system on tribble. At least 3 respec tokens should come free with the revamp to allow for mistakes with the new system. Maybe reward 3 tokens for completing the tutorial for new people who come in after the revamp is live, or they will be just as lost as they are now.
Why are the ultimate's at 26 points? I thought they would be 25 points which actually makes more sense to me since all the other bonus's are at 5, 10, 15 and 20 points. Also in order to get the full focused frenzy you need 28 points which forces you to spec into Coordination Protocols even if you don't have pets. If the ultimate's are moved to 25-27 points this problem goes away with everyone happy.
While I agree that pet buffs are useless at the 5 point passive, they cant be moved too high. I would suggest no higher than at the 15 point mark. Might still be a little early in character progression but if you force carrier captains to put 20+ points in tactical for those passives it severely limits what a lot of carrier captains can do with their builds. Maybe put one pet passive at 15 points and the other at 20 points, this way the captain has to make a choice when constructing his/her carrier build.
Some of the passives need to be rearranged so were not forced into cloak or pet passives. Also I don't like threat control as a passive but at least give us a better option than pet health if this is how it has to be.
Just wanted to get my $.02 in the official thread. It'll take some getting used to but I think this revamp should work out better than I thought. It does retain some of the flexibility we have now in space, but we do lose the specialization of ground dedicated toons we have now.
They shouldnt even be in the Tactical Skill Tree to begin with. I cant speak for Klingons or Roms (Might be mistaken but I believe Roms dont even have a true Carrier) but the Feds only two true Carriers are both Science. Now Im not saying that that is where these skill should land. But they definitely dont fit into the Tactical Skill Tree since the only Tactical Starships with Fighters are Tactically oriented Cruisers and some Flight Deck Escorts. Nothing completely focused on Pets. The escorts are more meh than the Cruisers.
This is something that should of been given its own Skill Tree and its something that shouldnt be bogging down Tactical Nodes. The Stealth Node is understandable. But why am I or anyone else not flying a Defiant/MES Build or a Carrier being asked to choose between those two? What incentive is that? It really doesnt matter where those two land on the scale for the Nodes since they remain Non-Starters for anyone without those two specific types of playstyles.
I'd have to go back and look at what the Tactical Skill Tree has and doesnt have to think up some suggestions that would fill that void. But currently Im not at all happy about how Pets are being shoehorned into the Tactical Tree.
roms don't have any true carriers. both kdf carriers are sci heavy though it's less so for the kar'fi, plus the breen carrier is sci heavy. flight deck ships can be tact heavy but don't depend on their pets. same for dreadnoughts and their engineering focus.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
2) The "Ultimate" abilities on the progression bar on the bottom of the screen have buttons that are too small!
This will be another issue where new players may never actually find this feature... There is no popup or clear notification about these "Ultimate" unlocks and while I was trying to learn the system, it was difficult to figure out that you actually need to SELECT one of the two once you reach that point on the unlock bar.
My recommendation is to increase the size (vertically if possible) of the Tac/Eng/Sci progression bars. Plus, maybe have a popup occur forcing a selection when you reach that point on the progression bar would REALLY help! A LOT of new players will look right past this!
I don't have much feedback about the actual skills or combat feedback, but IMO this new tree favors running alts far more than the previous tree. Its more difficult to run a "universal" build now, and specialized PVP vs PVE or Tank vs. DPS characters will be required to make more use of this tree. Not necessarily a bad thing.
As someone who only skimmed the patch notes, I had no idea what that bottom bar was or that I was supposed the to click on those little boxes to get any information, which brings me too...
Please, for the love of The Great Bird of the Galaxy add text labels!
Having to mouse over or click on everything to get basic information gets old real fast and for new people it makes it even more confusing.
Just a label at the top of each tree segment would be enough.
"Let me guess, my theories appall you, my heresies outrage you, I never answer letters and you don't like my tie" - The Doctor
"Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science!" -Agatha Heterodyne
The new Control Expertise skill just highlights, for me, that Science Confuses/Placates could probably use a buff, for PVE at least. I feel like anything I can do in a Science Vessel, I could do in any ship with a Lcdr Pilot seat and a copy of Attack Pattern Lambda III. And there I'd have a lot better Tactical damage output, rather than my Confuse/Placate ability taking a space that could be used for one of my damaging or healing Science abilities.
I think the biggest issue is the fragileness of those abilities. Lambda's confuse only lasts 5 seconds, but you can wail on that enemy during those 5 seconds and they're staying confused. Scramble/Jam Sensors breaks as soon as you sneeze at the enemy and the ability cooldowns are twice the duration of Lambda. I realize, Lambda is the outlier here...but it's much closer to what a PVE confuse should be, IMO.
(Yeah, I guess this is more Science ability feedback than skill feedback. Everything about the new skill is great.)
-edit-
I got a little too focused on Lamda in this. The Intel disables/placates also feel much stronger than the Science ones, and again don't really have the same opportunity trade-offs on many ships that Science abilities do.
Did you try going for an all out control expertise build? It should be easier now with the new system to go all out. Just wondering where the effect time limit lies (how long does a disable last). Sad to see the confuse/placates are still underpowered even with the new system.
On the other hand, we have people asking to torpedo drains, but no one ever complains about part gens damage. People are weird and DPS rules.
On the other hand, we have people asking to torpedo drains, but no one ever complains about part gens damage. People are weird and DPS rules.
It's because PrtG damage is the only really painful in PVP which is only played by a minority of the player base. The majority play PVE and even the current levels of PrtG damage lags behind traditional beam builds.
Powercreep is what's keeping this game running. If it has to exist in weapons, it has to exist in other abilities as well. Confuse/placate and drain builds do need a buff for PVE too. They have minimal impact in the current PVE meta.
Well, I've got a new Tribble toon up to level 6, and I already see a problem with choices that a new player likely can't answer at this point: ie do I want more shields and/or hull, or do I want to enhance the outgoing healing abilities of the shield and hull... I think most new players will automaticlly go after more shields with out considering hull or healing. Why - shield's are first line defense in preventing damage to hull/crew - therefore more shield hit points = better defense automatically. They'll also see their default loadout which includes a torpedo - so naturally a new player with out thinking down the road may buy into this and find out later they run so much exotic damage that purchasing into projectiles makes skilling into this a bad choice - suits now yes, but may not suit when they hit level 60. So even with this system, I still forsee that most new player will most likely need to respec just to get the right optimizations as they come to the realizations of what they are going to fly, and what things they are going to run to get good synergy.
Just a thought - *MAYBE* (and I can hear some protests about this idea, but it's only an idea) what needs to be done is to put an inital limit to prevent people from fool heartedly maxing out a particular skill. Ie: only allow a player to hit the 2nd skill teir max, and then have the final maximum tiers of the locks unlock once they hit level 50...
I see where you are coming from but I don't agree. By the time you can unlock tier 3 anyway we're what 20? By that time you should have an idea of how the mechanics work kind of and know whether or not a skill is for you. Beside to kill all tier 3 access to level 50 pretty much kills all science builds until then, since all the true science skills open at tier 3 and before then its nothing but shields. My suggestion would be to give all gold players a free skill respec at 20 and 50 and silver players only 1 at 20. This will allow the player base to experiment and learn while still allowing some money to go Cryptic's way via skill respec purchases.
Under the "Choice Selections" the Projectile and Energy weapon selections for critical damage and chance should be seperate. That way people who want to focus on Projectiles or Energy weapons can, instead of being forced to choose a stat for something they don't actually use. Most of the other "Choice Selections" play along with this idea, like the Hangar stuff being on seperate selections.
EPS corruption isn't very good... Meanwhile Probability Manipulation is way too good. Focused Frenzy seems pretty ballanced so far.
The ballance of the tree itself seems pretty good. The only thing I might do would be move Hull Plating a little higher and the Power level Engineering skills lower in the tree (higher as in to a higher tier).
So far, I was able to start a Federation science officer. And then go through the tutorial. And then I went to the station and was able to work with the new system. It's still complex (maybe because it's just really different so I spent most of my time reading about the choices and doing stuff here and there and tinkering). Science was probably not the way to go for me, but I want to I guess in a week when it's available, copy over my main (an ENG) and my alt (a romulan tactical officer) and kind of work on their builds that way. So I did science here.
I like a lot of the changes. The consolidation of some of the things was definitely needed. I worry that I won't have as many trainable/manual/skills I can make for my BOFFs after this change as my main was pretty heavy in ENG just to get a lot of those skills to train.
I agree with previous feedback about Tactical. The first choice being stealth or hangar pets is a little odd, as neither seem all that relevant to that tier of new player. And I believe previous feedback also mentioned the second tier science unlocks might work better at first tier since that choice would have an immediate/general impact on new players.
The hardest part for me is going to be trying to replicate my build as I believe I won't qualify for any "ultimate" choices. With the science character I got 22 in to the science tree after a couple of tries and retweaking the ENG choices to get some of that stuff that I know I tend to put on all my different builds. I'm now trying to decide if I want to lose points from ENG or TAC to get to the ultimate or not.
The hardest part for me is going to be trying to replicate my build as I believe I won't qualify for any "ultimate" choices. With the science character I got 22 in to the science tree after a couple of tries and retweaking the ENG choices to get some of that stuff that I know I tend to put on all my different builds. I'm now trying to decide if I want to lose points from ENG or TAC to get to the ultimate or not.
Honestly the more I play with the system, the more I think the ultimates are red herrings, much like full "set" bonuses for many of the gear choices. Sure they are nice to have, but you'll do better not getting the ultimates and building a better and more balanced build.
Not sure if it's bug or WAI, but apparently sector speed bonus from sci unlocks lets you go subtranswarp all by itself... I'm all for faster sector space travel, so I like it and hope it's kept that way (and moved to the 1st sci unlock.) If it is kept that way however, the transwarp recharge bonus is far, far less useful, and will become one of those really bad choices this system is supposed to eliminate (and, from what I can tell, is doing a good job overall.)
I see where you are coming from but I don't agree. By the time you can unlock tier 3 anyway we're what 20? By that time you should have an idea of how the mechanics work kind of and know whether or not a skill is for you. Beside to kill all tier 3 access to level 50 pretty much kills all science builds until then, since all the true science skills open at tier 3 and before then its nothing but shields. My suggestion would be to give all gold players a free skill respec at 20 and 50 and silver players only 1 at 20. This will allow the player base to experiment and learn while still allowing some money to go Cryptic's way via skill respec purchases.
I didn't say I was a fan of the idea - I just said it was an idea. By tier III I meant the final 100% unlock of a skill tree to unleash the full skill power (ie: able to purchase Energy Training I & II, but not the "Adanced" Energy training III of that branch) - as in limit people from the ultimate unlock in a particular skill tree. And I'm in agreement with you, but only because of my current experience and have quite a few idea's on various builds that would work for me now.
Some people don't have a clue until well *AFTER* they hit level 60. I myself only figured it out around level 56 (or there about) - it was before 60, but definitely well after level 50). I never played an RPG before, was having a hard time figuring out what I did and didn't like to fly (at level 50 I had the standard level 40 Cruiser, I ground out the same level science vessel and the same level escort to get a taste on how they flew - then I had to grind more to figure out what abilities I liked and didn't like, and then learn how to use some abilities better (I hated FAW at first as I kept loosing track of what my main target was and rarely ever had my ship facing the right way when it would go on cool down, etc) before I settled on what I wanted to do. I then had to respec my main toon - that was why I suggested the idea even though I personally do not like it at all.
Truth be told, I *DO* think at level 50 all players should be given a one time bound respec token that can be used after that point (esp since the very last command level promotion ship is at 40) - but I hey-me-doubt's that will fly.
2) The "Ultimate" abilities on the progression bar on the bottom of the screen have buttons that are too small!
This will be another issue where new players may never actually find this feature... There is no popup or clear notification about these "Ultimate" unlocks and while I was trying to learn the system, it was difficult to figure out that you actually need to SELECT one of the two once you reach that point on the unlock bar.
My recommendation is to increase the size (vertically if possible) of the Tac/Eng/Sci progression bars. Plus, maybe have a popup occur forcing a selection when you reach that point on the progression bar would REALLY help! A LOT of new players will look right past this!
I don't have much feedback about the actual skills or combat feedback, but IMO this new tree favors running alts far more than the previous tree. Its more difficult to run a "universal" build now, and specialized PVP vs PVE or Tank vs. DPS characters will be required to make more use of this tree. Not necessarily a bad thing.
As someone who only skimmed the patch notes, I had no idea what that bottom bar was or that I was supposed the to click on those little boxes to get any information, which brings me too...
Please, for the love of The Great Bird of the Galaxy add text labels!
Having to mouse over or click on everything to get basic information gets old real fast and for new people it makes it even more confusing.
Just a label at the top of each tree segment would be enough.
With all of that wasted space in the UI, it might as well get used for something useful.
Some issues I'm having over the new skill tree and suggestions:
1. You made both Energy and Torpedo upgrades into one but why leave the Mines? Shouldn't you just have made it into "Energy and Kinetic Damage" This would bring the Mines back into the fold. Mines need some love.
2. Speaking of Mines, couldn't you guys make the mines run faster and have the same property as small ships in a way that it can have a large dodge ratio? Mines becomes useless when encountering FAW users which should be fixed as one of the problems of why people keep't on saying how broken the skill is. Let the upgrades for the Mines also make it a bit durable, faster to move and give it an effect similar to a core breach where if you destroy it it will still blow-up and would damage a small area around it. As for other type of mines that stuns or hold make them more durable than exploding mines and dodge/move faster.
3. Since you already are improving pets why didn't you just include the other "Pets" as well. The Saucer Sep, Multi-Vector, Fleet Call etch into the fold. This pet upgrade the way I see it is more beneficial to Roms, a bit useful to KDF's since they get carriers much earlier but a bit useless for the Feds. Rom's have one of the best Pet out there available for them. It's already OP in my opinion and would be more OP with this update. But the choice of having other "Pets" upgrade themselves is good for people who don't use pets but use Saucer Sep (Roms also have a Sep type ship on their own BTW) and Multivector ships.
4. I find it odd that the reduction of damage per distance for Energy weapons doesn't hold any accuracy bonus with them when you level them up. I don't mind reduced accuracy at first. Simply because if I will get this buff it should also increase my accuracy exponentially. Unless I miss something I think accuracy should be added to this skill.
I would also like to point out that since you are already out there revamping things why not go an extra mile and actually do something more unique for each class and heck Faction for the skill tree?
A. Make each Class (Sci, Engi, Tact) get better bonuses for choosing investing more on their skill trees.
Ex: 1. Additional bonus for Exotic Damage and Auxiliary power for Each points spend by a Sci Officer on the Sci Skill tree.
2. Additional Damage Resistance and Bonus for Hull and Systems Repair for Each point spend by a Engi Officer on the Engi Skill Tree.
3. Additional Bonus on Dodge and Chance to Proc Weapon abilities (Just don't exceed to 3% please)
The above are just examples I have in mind for each class. Just examples ok but I think you can be more creative. The "Ultimate skills" for each class is not really that attractive but if you give more reason for each class to actually master their own class for sacrificing something.
And speaking of "Ultimate Skills" for each class I think you should just revamped them to make it faction specific for each class. That way there would be more builds and more ways to do things. If you put the same kinds of ultimate skills for each faction there would be a chance one Faction would cry over how that class Ultimate is much better used by that faction than their own.
I would like to see each faction bring something unique on the battle field for each their own class rather than being just Clones of each other and the most unique thing you can see are ships. Just don't make this Ultimate's OP but rather something that would help boost what the class/faction is lacking. Lets not Amp more damage for Roms since I think they already got enough and for the love of god don't ignore the KDF anymore. Sure some of them are ***holes and are into too much Role Playing but let them bring something to the table that would actually attract players to actually play them. Let Feds actually learn team work for once and not just whine about how a Scimmy is better at DPS blah blah blah or how offensive KDF's are. BTW My main is Fed and I find it ironic I'm actually trying to make life better for the 2 other faction. Hey you may call feds a carebear but this care bear is actually caring for the benefit of all even an opponent.
In the end I just want more versatility not only in builds for this new skill trees but for the different factions as well. Maybe with this PvP can make a good comeback and might attract other players into it. Seriously Cryptic. After reaching the final level and completing every specializations and gear we should have a PvP that we can go too while we wait for the next episode/patch or Bug fixes.
Anyway this are just my opinions and I know you and the others got their own ideas but hey no harm in saying them right?
Not sure if it's bug or WAI, but apparently sector speed bonus from sci unlocks lets you go subtranswarp all by itself... I'm all for faster sector space travel, so I like it and hope it's kept that way (and moved to the 1st sci unlock.) If it is kept that way however, the transwarp recharge bonus is far, far less useful, and will become one of those really bad choices this system is supposed to eliminate (and, from what I can tell, is doing a good job overall.)
I'm pretty sure it's supposed to let you go at subtranswarp speeds. The max unmodified warp speed you can get is 9.97, so if this skill didn't actually boost you past that then what benefit would it give, exactly? Take that speed bonus out and then the sector space speed boost would become far less useful and become one of those "really bad choices" you mentioned above.
You think it's fine as is and so do I, LOL. If you have a warp core that reduces transwarp cooldowns then taking the transwarp cooldown perk would basically eliminate those cooldowns entirely. Sector Space speed boost is universally useful unless you have one of the impulse engines that boosts sector space speed (which all of them do at Epic).
The Shield Penetration skill description only includes energy weapons. Including torpedoes would be helpful.
The skill is not really useful unless you PVP. The amount of shield pen is minimal. Better off with the armor pen for pve, shields do not last long in pve anymore..
So after a few hours and generating a brand new Tribble captain, I am at level 10. The encounter with the Klingon Neg'Vhar and the Undine dreadnought seemed much easier that with the old system, having chosen energy weapons prof., torpedo prof., and the shield capacity buff. The reason is because with the new system those points are acquired at once front end loaded. This may be too much. Before captains had only attack patterns, shield emitters, battery, driver coil, and the hull repair skill. Not enough points at that point for offensive skills to do much for the crews survival.
On the subject of carrier/pet and stealth buffs. @borticuscryptic, I suggest something different. They don't belong in the current trees at all. When a pilot wants to fly a bigger plane he gets certified for it. When a ships captain uses a type of ship with more displacement he gets certified. The same should be true of starship captains. Make a three skill tree for carrier's, stealth, cruisers, escorts and science ships. Those skills represent training in a ship class and it's proper basic operation. This is where stealth and carrier pets skills belong.
As for two other observation, in the tutorial, when Admiral Quinn states Yim and other officers support our story of a Klingon attack, their support does not "collaborate" our story. It CORROBORATES our story. Dialogue needs attention.
It would be helpful to allow us to progress quicker so we can cover more aspects of the new level progression within the week. I know I won't have time to make Captain this week with think both work and college. Being able to manually set level progression, basic green quality gear level appropriate, and store access would make us more efficient.
So far, the revamp seems positive.
Player and forumite formerly known as FEELTHETHUNDER
The Shield Penetration skill description only includes energy weapons. Including torpedoes would be helpful.
The skill is not really useful unless you PVP. The amount of shield pen is minimal. Better off with the armor pen for pve, shields do not last long in pve anymore..
For mostly pure torpedo builds or pure torpedo builds shield penetration is very important even in pve.
Will i lose any power that i can craft after the new trait system ??
I try to get close to my NWS build and ended up with 15 in eng/sci and tac.
Lots of my toons don't have pets and only some use torps.
Spending points in tac:
5: Star ships stealth or Hangar weapony -
10:Treat control (+100% treat while in treating stance ??) or Pet health -
15:Projectile crth or projectical crtd -
20:Energy crth or Enegy crtd -
So the only good power for all my toon s is at 20 tac points and only toons with torps and pet will have a chance to get it.
So why not put energy crth/crtd first, almost all people use energy weapons.
Then Projectile crtd/crth and later pets (people that use energy weapons, torps and pets need to put lots in tac-tree.
Now if i want the bonus i need to put tac points in things i don't use...
This revamp is going to TRIBBLE me off, 5 years of making my build better and better and now this...
As others have mentioned before, at level 2 the skill section was flashing even though I could not utilize it.
I seemed to jump from lvl 2 to 10 within the tutorial (before "The Helix") without any notification that I could use skills at lvl 5. I suddenly had 10 Space and 2 ground points. This happened in the old system where I suddenly realized I had skill points to use.
The basic categories (Lt. level) seemed self explanatory, but if I were a new player my first question would be "Why is my progression being tracked/funneled?" The benefit would seem to be in doubling down and completing a particular career track and not diversifying across careers or it would appear that I am supposed to invest in my career track. This is not the case, but it was not very apparent at the time of skill selection. My sense is that awarding one experience point per level will put pressure on new players to "make a right choice" and lead them to believe that they actually made a wrong choice and want to respec much sooner. Providing multiple skill points that can be spread out takes some pressure off of people when making a decision-"I'll place one here in this skill and one there in another, and I feel less stressed because I've covered some of the bases. " Just an set of my opinions. Perhaps generous respecs or a respec grace period or telling players to build how they want and a future respec is incoming could head any problem off.
The Lt. level skills are self explanatory to new players in my opinion; however, as an experienced STO player I'm confused about any conversion if I were trying to replicate builds.
I looked quickly ahead at advanced Science nodes (Drain and Control Expertise) and noticed a series of skills or powers listed in them but no descriptions. I'm not sure how these will unlock yet (including any potential descriptions), but if I were a new player any listed skills in an expertise would have no meaning to mean at all as they were not explained. This said, I could have overlooked or missed things.
It would be helpful to allow us to progress quicker so we can cover more aspects of the new level progression within the week. I know I won't have time to make Captain this week with think both work and college. Being able to manually set level progression, basic green quality gear level appropriate, and store access would make us more efficient.
Go to Drozana station, you can buy boxes containing 30k XP from the testing console there. Just note that you'll get an option to buy up to 10 at the time, and they open immediately on pickup, so don't buy more than you actually want, if you want to go one level at a time. You can't store them in your inventory and use them when you want like the other testing boxes.
That'll get you the levels, you can skip the story missions, and buy vendor gear. The early story should be playable on normal with just vendor gear, I've (mostly) done it before. Once you hit 50, you can get much better gear from the reps.
One thing I don't understand is why something so unused (and frankly, useless) like starship stealth is still in the tree. Personally, I'd have dropped this skill off the tree entirely.
I'd also agree that having skills relating to stealth and pets at the earlier stages of the tree is rather pointless. Would make more sense to have those at the level when you get T4/T5 ships.
One thing I don't understand is why something so unused (and frankly, useless) like starship stealth is still in the tree. Personally, I'd have dropped this skill off the tree entirely.
I'd also agree that having skills relating to stealth and pets at the earlier stages of the tree is rather pointless. Would make more sense to have those at the level when you get T4/T5 ships.
first ship with hanger pet is t3.
though it seem like there isn't really a good place for these skills. the ship that need it the most are sci but thats pretty full as is and most sci ship would find it useless. and putting it later in one other path would make harder for those ships to use it... I'm starting to see why it was placed in such a nonsensical place.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
Will i lose any power that i can craft after the new trait system ??
I try to get close to my NWS build and ended up with 15 in eng/sci and tac.
Lots of my toons don't have pets and only some use torps.
Spending points in tac:
5: Star ships stealth or Hangar weapony -
10:Treat control (+100% treat while in treating stance ??) or Pet health -
15:Projectile crth or projectical crtd -
20:Energy crth or Enegy crtd -
So the only good power for all my toon s is at 20 tac points and only toons with torps and pet will have a chance to get it.
So why not put energy crth/crtd first, almost all people use energy weapons.
Then Projectile crtd/crth and later pets (people that use energy weapons, torps and pets need to put lots in tac-tree.
Now if i want the bonus i need to put tac points in things i don't use...
While I agree with some of what you said here, most people using carriers will favor the science tree more so than the tac tree. If the pet selections are too high they will not be useful to most carrier's. Also a lot more people than you might think put torps on their builds. Asking for the energy weapons crtd/crth passive to be at the first rank so you dont have to put any points in the tac tree is asking for even more unbalanced BFAW spam than we already have, and I would guess most people don't want that. Swapping energy with projectile crtd/crth I can see. Personally I think threat and stealth should be in the tree and not passive's, but that's just me.
> @nightken said: > sgtfloydpepper > first ship with hanger pet is t3. > > > though it seem like there isn't really a good place for these skills. the ship that need it the most are sci but thats pretty full as is and most sci ship would find it useless. and putting it later in one other path would make harder for those ships to use it... I'm starting to see why it was placed in such a nonsensical place.
Nonetheless, I still don't see this change being a positive one. It really lacks the versatility and customization of the existing skills system. Now I just feel boxed into taking garbage skills that I don't want/need.
- i think the energy weapons and torpedoes, critcal hit and severity should be combined into one.
- there are too many shield strength, hardness and absorbsion like ship hull and repairs. they should also be combined.
- accuracy is useless in PVE, it should keep its own placing and an additional note about it being more effective in PVP.
- too many useful skill too late into the skill tree, criticals, warp core potential, subsystem potential.
- too many shield based skills i think should be put into the engineering section instead of science, i mean engineering spec with an engineering boat is nothing more than a tank in space, shields are apart of that.
- no driver coil skills, so now it will take forever to get to a target at warp 5.
- i think there should be a few more skill points on offer so instead of missing half the tree, you could get more from it. make it a little more flexible.
- the ground skills are fine.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
> @nightken said:
> sgtfloydpepper
> first ship with hanger pet is t3.
>
>
> though it seem like there isn't really a good place for these skills. the ship that need it the most are sci but thats pretty full as is and most sci ship would find it useless. and putting it later in one other path would make harder for those ships to use it... I'm starting to see why it was placed in such a nonsensical place.
Nonetheless, I still don't see this change being a positive one. It really lacks the versatility and customization of the existing skills system. Now I just feel boxed into taking garbage skills that I don't want/need.
To be honest I did that under the current system too as I needed to points to unlock the next tier so its nothing new.
The main one for me with this system is the choice of torp or torp for the tac line, a lot of us don't use them after all.
> @nightken said:
> sgtfloydpepper
> first ship with hanger pet is t3.
>
>
> though it seem like there isn't really a good place for these skills. the ship that need it the most are sci but thats pretty full as is and most sci ship would find it useless. and putting it later in one other path would make harder for those ships to use it... I'm starting to see why it was placed in such a nonsensical place.
Nonetheless, I still don't see this change being a positive one. It really lacks the versatility and customization of the existing skills system. Now I just feel boxed into taking garbage skills that I don't want/need.
1. not every choice is a good one. useless skills/empty levels have always been a thing and are not going anywhere it suck but then again life sucks.
2. and this is starting to become a annoyence, not you personally but that this keep coming up, but versatility is what your getting but you don't want it. and the old/current sucks just much I think about 1/4 to a 1/3 of what I got now on holodeck isn't really helping much.
3. some change are not positive, but because something isn't happy happy joy joy doesn't mean it's doomy doom ether. neutral changes exist though no one like to admit that.
4. I'm not touch the boxed in part cause I don't think I can be nice about it. but thats a me problem.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
Comments
roms don't have any true carriers. both kdf carriers are sci heavy though it's less so for the kar'fi, plus the breen carrier is sci heavy. flight deck ships can be tact heavy but don't depend on their pets. same for dreadnoughts and their engineering focus.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
Please, for the love of The Great Bird of the Galaxy add text labels!
Having to mouse over or click on everything to get basic information gets old real fast and for new people it makes it even more confusing.
Just a label at the top of each tree segment would be enough.
"Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science!" - Agatha Heterodyne
Did you try going for an all out control expertise build? It should be easier now with the new system to go all out. Just wondering where the effect time limit lies (how long does a disable last). Sad to see the confuse/placates are still underpowered even with the new system.
On the other hand, we have people asking to torpedo drains, but no one ever complains about part gens damage. People are weird and DPS rules.
It's because PrtG damage is the only really painful in PVP which is only played by a minority of the player base. The majority play PVE and even the current levels of PrtG damage lags behind traditional beam builds.
Powercreep is what's keeping this game running. If it has to exist in weapons, it has to exist in other abilities as well. Confuse/placate and drain builds do need a buff for PVE too. They have minimal impact in the current PVE meta.
| USS Curiosity - Pathfinder | USS Rift - Eternal |
The Science Ship Build Thread - Share your Sci Ship builds here!
I see where you are coming from but I don't agree. By the time you can unlock tier 3 anyway we're what 20? By that time you should have an idea of how the mechanics work kind of and know whether or not a skill is for you. Beside to kill all tier 3 access to level 50 pretty much kills all science builds until then, since all the true science skills open at tier 3 and before then its nothing but shields. My suggestion would be to give all gold players a free skill respec at 20 and 50 and silver players only 1 at 20. This will allow the player base to experiment and learn while still allowing some money to go Cryptic's way via skill respec purchases.
Under the "Choice Selections" the Projectile and Energy weapon selections for critical damage and chance should be seperate. That way people who want to focus on Projectiles or Energy weapons can, instead of being forced to choose a stat for something they don't actually use. Most of the other "Choice Selections" play along with this idea, like the Hangar stuff being on seperate selections.
EPS corruption isn't very good... Meanwhile Probability Manipulation is way too good. Focused Frenzy seems pretty ballanced so far.
The ballance of the tree itself seems pretty good. The only thing I might do would be move Hull Plating a little higher and the Power level Engineering skills lower in the tree (higher as in to a higher tier).
I like a lot of the changes. The consolidation of some of the things was definitely needed. I worry that I won't have as many trainable/manual/skills I can make for my BOFFs after this change as my main was pretty heavy in ENG just to get a lot of those skills to train.
I agree with previous feedback about Tactical. The first choice being stealth or hangar pets is a little odd, as neither seem all that relevant to that tier of new player. And I believe previous feedback also mentioned the second tier science unlocks might work better at first tier since that choice would have an immediate/general impact on new players.
The hardest part for me is going to be trying to replicate my build as I believe I won't qualify for any "ultimate" choices. With the science character I got 22 in to the science tree after a couple of tries and retweaking the ENG choices to get some of that stuff that I know I tend to put on all my different builds. I'm now trying to decide if I want to lose points from ENG or TAC to get to the ultimate or not.
Honestly the more I play with the system, the more I think the ultimates are red herrings, much like full "set" bonuses for many of the gear choices. Sure they are nice to have, but you'll do better not getting the ultimates and building a better and more balanced build.
I didn't say I was a fan of the idea - I just said it was an idea. By tier III I meant the final 100% unlock of a skill tree to unleash the full skill power (ie: able to purchase Energy Training I & II, but not the "Adanced" Energy training III of that branch) - as in limit people from the ultimate unlock in a particular skill tree. And I'm in agreement with you, but only because of my current experience and have quite a few idea's on various builds that would work for me now.
Some people don't have a clue until well *AFTER* they hit level 60. I myself only figured it out around level 56 (or there about) - it was before 60, but definitely well after level 50). I never played an RPG before, was having a hard time figuring out what I did and didn't like to fly (at level 50 I had the standard level 40 Cruiser, I ground out the same level science vessel and the same level escort to get a taste on how they flew - then I had to grind more to figure out what abilities I liked and didn't like, and then learn how to use some abilities better (I hated FAW at first as I kept loosing track of what my main target was and rarely ever had my ship facing the right way when it would go on cool down, etc) before I settled on what I wanted to do. I then had to respec my main toon - that was why I suggested the idea even though I personally do not like it at all.
Truth be told, I *DO* think at level 50 all players should be given a one time bound respec token that can be used after that point (esp since the very last command level promotion ship is at 40) - but I hey-me-doubt's that will fly.
With all of that wasted space in the UI, it might as well get used for something useful.
1. You made both Energy and Torpedo upgrades into one but why leave the Mines? Shouldn't you just have made it into "Energy and Kinetic Damage" This would bring the Mines back into the fold. Mines need some love.
2. Speaking of Mines, couldn't you guys make the mines run faster and have the same property as small ships in a way that it can have a large dodge ratio? Mines becomes useless when encountering FAW users which should be fixed as one of the problems of why people keep't on saying how broken the skill is. Let the upgrades for the Mines also make it a bit durable, faster to move and give it an effect similar to a core breach where if you destroy it it will still blow-up and would damage a small area around it. As for other type of mines that stuns or hold make them more durable than exploding mines and dodge/move faster.
3. Since you already are improving pets why didn't you just include the other "Pets" as well. The Saucer Sep, Multi-Vector, Fleet Call etch into the fold. This pet upgrade the way I see it is more beneficial to Roms, a bit useful to KDF's since they get carriers much earlier but a bit useless for the Feds. Rom's have one of the best Pet out there available for them. It's already OP in my opinion and would be more OP with this update. But the choice of having other "Pets" upgrade themselves is good for people who don't use pets but use Saucer Sep (Roms also have a Sep type ship on their own BTW) and Multivector ships.
4. I find it odd that the reduction of damage per distance for Energy weapons doesn't hold any accuracy bonus with them when you level them up. I don't mind reduced accuracy at first. Simply because if I will get this buff it should also increase my accuracy exponentially. Unless I miss something I think accuracy should be added to this skill.
I would also like to point out that since you are already out there revamping things why not go an extra mile and actually do something more unique for each class and heck Faction for the skill tree?
A. Make each Class (Sci, Engi, Tact) get better bonuses for choosing investing more on their skill trees.
Ex: 1. Additional bonus for Exotic Damage and Auxiliary power for Each points spend by a Sci Officer on the Sci Skill tree.
2. Additional Damage Resistance and Bonus for Hull and Systems Repair for Each point spend by a Engi Officer on the Engi Skill Tree.
3. Additional Bonus on Dodge and Chance to Proc Weapon abilities (Just don't exceed to 3% please)
The above are just examples I have in mind for each class. Just examples ok but I think you can be more creative. The "Ultimate skills" for each class is not really that attractive but if you give more reason for each class to actually master their own class for sacrificing something.
And speaking of "Ultimate Skills" for each class I think you should just revamped them to make it faction specific for each class. That way there would be more builds and more ways to do things. If you put the same kinds of ultimate skills for each faction there would be a chance one Faction would cry over how that class Ultimate is much better used by that faction than their own.
I would like to see each faction bring something unique on the battle field for each their own class rather than being just Clones of each other and the most unique thing you can see are ships. Just don't make this Ultimate's OP but rather something that would help boost what the class/faction is lacking. Lets not Amp more damage for Roms since I think they already got enough and for the love of god don't ignore the KDF anymore. Sure some of them are ***holes and are into too much Role Playing but let them bring something to the table that would actually attract players to actually play them. Let Feds actually learn team work for once and not just whine about how a Scimmy is better at DPS blah blah blah or how offensive KDF's are. BTW My main is Fed and I find it ironic I'm actually trying to make life better for the 2 other faction. Hey you may call feds a carebear but this care bear is actually caring for the benefit of all even an opponent.
In the end I just want more versatility not only in builds for this new skill trees but for the different factions as well. Maybe with this PvP can make a good comeback and might attract other players into it. Seriously Cryptic. After reaching the final level and completing every specializations and gear we should have a PvP that we can go too while we wait for the next episode/patch or Bug fixes.
Anyway this are just my opinions and I know you and the others got their own ideas but hey no harm in saying them right?
Good day to all.
You think it's fine as is and so do I, LOL. If you have a warp core that reduces transwarp cooldowns then taking the transwarp cooldown perk would basically eliminate those cooldowns entirely. Sector Space speed boost is universally useful unless you have one of the impulse engines that boosts sector space speed (which all of them do at Epic).
The skill is not really useful unless you PVP. The amount of shield pen is minimal. Better off with the armor pen for pve, shields do not last long in pve anymore..
On the subject of carrier/pet and stealth buffs. @borticuscryptic, I suggest something different. They don't belong in the current trees at all. When a pilot wants to fly a bigger plane he gets certified for it. When a ships captain uses a type of ship with more displacement he gets certified. The same should be true of starship captains. Make a three skill tree for carrier's, stealth, cruisers, escorts and science ships. Those skills represent training in a ship class and it's proper basic operation. This is where stealth and carrier pets skills belong.
As for two other observation, in the tutorial, when Admiral Quinn states Yim and other officers support our story of a Klingon attack, their support does not "collaborate" our story. It CORROBORATES our story. Dialogue needs attention.
It would be helpful to allow us to progress quicker so we can cover more aspects of the new level progression within the week. I know I won't have time to make Captain this week with think both work and college. Being able to manually set level progression, basic green quality gear level appropriate, and store access would make us more efficient.
So far, the revamp seems positive.
Player and forumite formerly known as FEELTHETHUNDER
Expatriot Might Characters in EXILE
Player and forumite formerly known as FEELTHETHUNDER
Expatriot Might Characters in EXILE
Wait... it doesn't? I assumed it included both energy and kinetics. I think it should include both.
| USS Curiosity - Pathfinder | USS Rift - Eternal |
The Science Ship Build Thread - Share your Sci Ship builds here!
I try to get close to my NWS build and ended up with 15 in eng/sci and tac.
Lots of my toons don't have pets and only some use torps.
Spending points in tac:
5: Star ships stealth or Hangar weapony -
10:Treat control (+100% treat while in treating stance ??) or Pet health -
15:Projectile crth or projectical crtd -
20:Energy crth or Enegy crtd -
So the only good power for all my toon s is at 20 tac points and only toons with torps and pet will have a chance to get it.
So why not put energy crth/crtd first, almost all people use energy weapons.
Then Projectile crtd/crth and later pets (people that use energy weapons, torps and pets need to put lots in tac-tree.
Now if i want the bonus i need to put tac points in things i don't use...
This revamp is going to TRIBBLE me off, 5 years of making my build better and better and now this...
Observations thus far:
As others have mentioned before, at level 2 the skill section was flashing even though I could not utilize it.
I seemed to jump from lvl 2 to 10 within the tutorial (before "The Helix") without any notification that I could use skills at lvl 5. I suddenly had 10 Space and 2 ground points. This happened in the old system where I suddenly realized I had skill points to use.
The basic categories (Lt. level) seemed self explanatory, but if I were a new player my first question would be "Why is my progression being tracked/funneled?" The benefit would seem to be in doubling down and completing a particular career track and not diversifying across careers or it would appear that I am supposed to invest in my career track. This is not the case, but it was not very apparent at the time of skill selection. My sense is that awarding one experience point per level will put pressure on new players to "make a right choice" and lead them to believe that they actually made a wrong choice and want to respec much sooner. Providing multiple skill points that can be spread out takes some pressure off of people when making a decision-"I'll place one here in this skill and one there in another, and I feel less stressed because I've covered some of the bases. " Just an set of my opinions. Perhaps generous respecs or a respec grace period or telling players to build how they want and a future respec is incoming could head any problem off.
The Lt. level skills are self explanatory to new players in my opinion; however, as an experienced STO player I'm confused about any conversion if I were trying to replicate builds.
I looked quickly ahead at advanced Science nodes (Drain and Control Expertise) and noticed a series of skills or powers listed in them but no descriptions. I'm not sure how these will unlock yet (including any potential descriptions), but if I were a new player any listed skills in an expertise would have no meaning to mean at all as they were not explained. This said, I could have overlooked or missed things.
More later.
Go to Drozana station, you can buy boxes containing 30k XP from the testing console there. Just note that you'll get an option to buy up to 10 at the time, and they open immediately on pickup, so don't buy more than you actually want, if you want to go one level at a time. You can't store them in your inventory and use them when you want like the other testing boxes.
That'll get you the levels, you can skip the story missions, and buy vendor gear. The early story should be playable on normal with just vendor gear, I've (mostly) done it before. Once you hit 50, you can get much better gear from the reps.
I'd also agree that having skills relating to stealth and pets at the earlier stages of the tree is rather pointless. Would make more sense to have those at the level when you get T4/T5 ships.
first ship with hanger pet is t3.
though it seem like there isn't really a good place for these skills. the ship that need it the most are sci but thats pretty full as is and most sci ship would find it useless. and putting it later in one other path would make harder for those ships to use it... I'm starting to see why it was placed in such a nonsensical place.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
While I agree with some of what you said here, most people using carriers will favor the science tree more so than the tac tree. If the pet selections are too high they will not be useful to most carrier's. Also a lot more people than you might think put torps on their builds. Asking for the energy weapons crtd/crth passive to be at the first rank so you dont have to put any points in the tac tree is asking for even more unbalanced BFAW spam than we already have, and I would guess most people don't want that. Swapping energy with projectile crtd/crth I can see. Personally I think threat and stealth should be in the tree and not passive's, but that's just me.
> sgtfloydpepper
> first ship with hanger pet is t3.
>
>
> though it seem like there isn't really a good place for these skills. the ship that need it the most are sci but thats pretty full as is and most sci ship would find it useless. and putting it later in one other path would make harder for those ships to use it... I'm starting to see why it was placed in such a nonsensical place.
Nonetheless, I still don't see this change being a positive one. It really lacks the versatility and customization of the existing skills system. Now I just feel boxed into taking garbage skills that I don't want/need.
- there are too many shield strength, hardness and absorbsion like ship hull and repairs. they should also be combined.
- accuracy is useless in PVE, it should keep its own placing and an additional note about it being more effective in PVP.
- too many useful skill too late into the skill tree, criticals, warp core potential, subsystem potential.
- too many shield based skills i think should be put into the engineering section instead of science, i mean engineering spec with an engineering boat is nothing more than a tank in space, shields are apart of that.
- no driver coil skills, so now it will take forever to get to a target at warp 5.
- i think there should be a few more skill points on offer so instead of missing half the tree, you could get more from it. make it a little more flexible.
- the ground skills are fine.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
To be honest I did that under the current system too as I needed to points to unlock the next tier so its nothing new.
The main one for me with this system is the choice of torp or torp for the tac line, a lot of us don't use them after all.
1. not every choice is a good one. useless skills/empty levels have always been a thing and are not going anywhere it suck but then again life sucks.
2. and this is starting to become a annoyence, not you personally but that this keep coming up, but versatility is what your getting but you don't want it. and the old/current sucks just much I think about 1/4 to a 1/3 of what I got now on holodeck isn't really helping much.
3. some change are not positive, but because something isn't happy happy joy joy doesn't mean it's doomy doom ether. neutral changes exist though no one like to admit that.
4. I'm not touch the boxed in part cause I don't think I can be nice about it. but thats a me problem.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.