So kemo now does more or less the same dmg as a sci boff ability and still requires less be built around it than sci (partgens anyone).
Not seeing the problem other than its not acknowledge by cryptic as WAI. Those logs don't show how much of a dps boost you get from the resistance debuff either.
Not seeing the problem other than its not acknowledge by cryptic as WAI. Those logs don't show how much of a dps boost you get from the resistance debuff either.
This part is most of the people forget about the debuff part. The ability is still very useful, but not going to be one of those "must haves" anymore.
Wasn't this always going to happen?
Cryptic release a massively overpowered skill, but make it very hard to get. So lots and lots of people spend way too much cash/zen/dil/ec to buy them. So Cryptic makes a TRIBBLE load of cash from one lockbox.
They don't nerf the skill while the lockbox is still going, even though everyone knows its stupidly OP.
Then, after the lockbox is gone, after the hype has gone, after the cash intake is just normal instead of pouring in, then they nerf it. And they nerf the absolute TRIBBLE out of it, on multiple levels.
They knew it was OP and needed to be nerfed, but there was no way they were doing it till after they made their money.
Now all those that spent way too much cash on them are wondering why they aren't super overpowered anymore.
Everyone knew this was coming, you had your OP spree, now everyone has to deal with it.
The funny thing is cryptic now knows people will buy the TRIBBLE out of a lockbox if there is something very very OP in it.
So soon enough they will do it again. Release a new skill or trait that is crazy powerful. People will overbuy it, then once again complain when months later when the cash flow slows down, it gets nerfed.
I may stand alone on this opinion...but I actually like this.
Some enemy/faction comes out with a new weapon. Like all new weapons in war they are devastating and have little to no counters (think of the Breen energy weapon used during the Dominion War, the first mini gun or tank, jet, nuke, etc). Then after some time (and a little profit for Cryptic because, why not) the great science minds of the universe discover a way to neutralize the new weapons effects and it becomes just another nuisance you can counter if outfitted properly.
What I'm surprised about is the people who continually come across these obviously OP weapons and are still amazed at the nerf even though it happens basically EVERY SINGLE TIME. I mean, talk about a rational, repeating pattern. It's almost as reliable as clockwork.
It's not the legitimate 'nerf' it's the overcompensation and/or errors introduced that do more than they were trying to accomplish per their own statements.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
The thing that I always find interesting about these Working As Intended discussions is that they always focus on the First Word of that phrase ... the "Working" part. Hardly anyone ever tries to examine the second half of the phrase ... the INTENT portion.
So what WAS the INTENT for Kemocite Laced Weaponry?
Once you've answered that, then you can make the value judgement over Working As Intended (or the much more likely, Broken As Intended).
A lot of time, Developers (in general) will attempt to "hide" behind the Working/Broken differential, where the bar is essentially set at whether or not something crashes the game (fatal error vs non-fatal error) or even if it's having an effect AT ALL. Rarely do I see an analysis of whether the INTENDED effect is something that has been well thought out ... or even "sane" given the context of the game around the issue. Unfortunately, the only way to divine "Intent" is to piece together the clues based on what is (and has been) done ... and given the track record, in many cases the only possible logical conclusion is that the INTENT is fatally flawed, if not downright insane.
So I ask again, and would appreciate a chime in from any Community Moderators who can put the question to the relevant Developer(s) ... what was the INTENT for Kemocite Laced Weaponry?
Only once we've got an answer for the Intent can we properly judge if that Intent is being properly implemented enough to be considered "Working" ... or just Broken.
Nothing generates ill will and feelings faster than a Broken As Intended implementation.
Anyways, I am not sure what you are doing wrong but Kemocite is fine. They did not nerf it into the ground. They simply fixed it, and fixed the torpedo problem. I have been using Kemocite II and I can tell you that it works and it works well. My DPS is substantially higher, and using Reciprocity, I never have to look down and see it on cooldown. If you are running the Neutronic Torpedo/Gel pack set up it makes it that much better. I have played around with both Kemocite II and III and they all seem to work. Ships blow up faster in a glorious explosion of radiation.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
There are two major ways in which Kemocite's behavior was altered with the Anniversary Patch, which I'll discuss individually.
1) Proc rate reduced during Torpedo Spread and Fire-at-Will
This change was intentional. It was discovered that both of these firing modes were checking their Proc Chance twice per activation - once on activation, and again when the damage is actually dealt. This is due to the complicated "reverse hit" mechanics involved with how they calculate which targets are affected. We fixed the issue, which brought the proc rate back down to expected levels - 10% on Energy Weapon activation, and 100% for Torpedoes (for a single hit, not two).
It was definitely not intentional that this fix was not documented in our patch notes. This was an oversight caused by an internal miscommunication. We're already working on avenues to prevent such things from happening again in the future. Generally speaking, if a change goes live without a patch note, it's almost always safe for players to assume that it was an unintended change, and should be treated as a bug. If it turns out to have been intentional, we'll put just as much effort into communicating that, as we would to fixing it if it's a bug.
If you're interested in helping, you're always welcome to run a few queues on Tribble each time a major build is released, and report any new or unexpected behavior. Might need to bring your own team, though!
2) No longer Crits, except under Torpedo Spread.
This was not an intentional change, and we're working on a fix to bring the behavior of Critical Hits back into play when using Kemocite. This fix is going to undergo a pretty extensive testing process though, so I don't anticipate it appearing on Holodeck for at least a month, maybe as much as two. It will be on Tribble very soon, however. We'd welcome additional testers to check out the fixed behavior when it arrives, and run a few scenarios to ensure we haven't overlooked any edge-case issues.
Jeremy Randall
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
There are two major ways in which Kemocite's behavior was altered with the Anniversary Patch, which I'll discuss individually.
1) Proc rate reduced during Torpedo Spread and Fire-at-Will
This change was intentional. It was discovered that both of these firing modes were checking their Proc Chance twice per activation - once on activation, and again when the damage is actually dealt. This is due to the complicated "reverse hit" mechanics involved with how they calculate which targets are affected. We fixed the issue, which brought the proc rate back down to expected levels - 10% on Energy Weapon activation, and 100% for Torpedoes (for a single hit, not two).
It was definitely not intentional that this fix was not documented in our patch notes. This was an oversight caused by an internal miscommunication. We're already working on avenues to prevent such things from happening again in the future. Generally speaking, if a change goes live without a patch note, it's almost always safe for players to assume that it was an unintended change, and should be treated as a bug. If it turns out to have been intentional, we'll put just as much effort into communicating that, as we would to fixing it if it's a bug.
If you're interested in helping, you're always welcome to run a few queues on Tribble each time a major build is released, and report any new or unexpected behavior. Might need to bring your own team, though!
2) No longer Crits, except under Torpedo Spread.
This was not an intentional change, and we're working on a fix to bring the behavior of Critical Hits back into play when using Kemocite. This fix is going to undergo a pretty extensive testing process though, so I don't anticipate it appearing on Holodeck for at least a month, maybe as much as two. It will be on Tribble very soon, however. We'd welcome additional testers to check out the fixed behavior when it arrives, and run a few scenarios to ensure we haven't overlooked any edge-case issues.
This was not an intentional change, and we're working on a fix to bring the behavior of Critical Hits back into play when using Kemocite. This fix is going to undergo a pretty extensive testing process though, so I don't anticipate it appearing on Holodeck for at least a month, maybe as much as two. It will be on Tribble very soon, however. We'd welcome additional testers to check out the fixed behavior when it arrives, and run a few scenarios to ensure we haven't overlooked any edge-case issues.
Kemocite's behavior with torps needs a balance pass for PvP's sake. Either that or reign in the neut torp's damage.
Kemocite's behavior with torps needs a balance pass for PvP's sake. Either that or reign in the neut torp's damage.
Again with the PvP nerfs?! Haven't you guys killed Kemo and Neut enough??! The rest of us wants to have a fun time too, you know!
There's pvp in this game?
There are other aspects of this game. Do you guys REALLY need that much more help against these TRIBBLE NPCs that don't do anything to you but take damage?
Man really I leave the game for awhile and come back to the exact same dead horses being ridden.
If your TOYs get nerfed. it has NOTHING at all to do with anyone that PvPs in this game. (the few that still bother)
Cryptic does not care about PvP get over it... if your toys get fixed its because they where broken by design and if you don't get that 6 years in; I am not sure there is much I can tell you.
Cryptic sells bugs... that is what they do. They always always always have 4 or 5 items/skills or what have you that are broken. I am not saying overpowered I mean honest to goodness broken, on purpose. When the sell through hits a set number, they "fix" because you are intended to purchase the next bug.
If you want to know what the next bug is .... go and look at the exchange and examine the pricing on the new stuff, it will be clear what you are intended to buy.
Stop nerfing things!! I need all the help I can get to shoot floating NPC bricks and space Barbie!!
Seriously, why are there people still complaining about any sort of balancing? Have you still not worked out that it'd make the game far more interesting?
Stop nerfing things!! I need all the help I can get to shoot floating NPC bricks and space Barbie!!
Seriously, why are there people still complaining about any sort of balancing?
Have you still not worked out that it'd make the game far more interesting?
Can you seriously say this with a straight face after Kemo and Neutronic already have been nerfed into oblivion?! Even Bort came out and said Kemo (accidentally) got whacked a bit too hard.
At first I thought you PvP folks were just kidding here; but you're serious, aren't you? It's never enough.
Stop nerfing things!! I need all the help I can get to shoot floating NPC bricks and space Barbie!!
Seriously, why are there people still complaining about any sort of balancing?
Have you still not worked out that it'd make the game far more interesting?
Can you seriously say this with a straight face after Kemo and Neutronic already have been nerfed into oblivion?! Even Bort came out and said Kemo (accidentally) got whacked a bit too hard.
At first I thought you PvP folks were just kidding here; but you're serious, aren't you? It's never enough.
That isn't what he said at all if you read it.
He said it got "wacked" cause it was hitting twice instead of once... which is something everyone that has ever used KEMO KNEW already... and most of us also realized it was a Bugged on purpose to sell boxes sorta thing and KNEW it would be fixed.
As far as the not critting... I hate to say it but it isn't going to add a ton of dmg to the skill when its fixed. The numbers are not big and the 20-30% of the hits that crit aren't going to put it back to a 40% of your DPS situation... that was coming from it hitting twice instead of once.
Can you honestly say you didn't realize it was borked ? Never mind arguing about that being intentional or not.
Stop nerfing things!! I need all the help I can get to shoot floating NPC bricks and space Barbie!!
Seriously, why are there people still complaining about any sort of balancing?
Have you still not worked out that it'd make the game far more interesting?
Can you seriously say this with a straight face after Kemo and Neutronic already have been nerfed into oblivion?! Even Bort came out and said Kemo (accidentally) got whacked a bit too hard.
At first I thought you PvP folks were just kidding here; but you're serious, aren't you? It's never enough.
That isn't what he said at all if you read it.
He said it got "wacked" cause it was hitting twice instead of once... which is something everyone that has ever used KEMO KNEW already... and most of us also realized it was a Bugged on purpose to sell boxes sorta thing and KNEW it would be fixed.
As far as the not critting... I hate to say it but it isn't going to add a ton of dmg to the skill when its fixed. The numbers are not big and the 20-30% of the hits that crit aren't going to put it back to a 40% of your DPS situation... that was coming from it hitting twice instead of once.
Can you honestly say you didn't realize it was borked ? Never mind arguing about that being intentional or not.
O, Kemo was definitely borked. But then they fixed it. And then, with the Anniversary, they broke it again, LOL (but this time in the wrong direction, as crits alltogether got disabled, except for torpedo spread, apparently). The surplus 'nerf' is what needs, and will be undone.
Stop nerfing things!! I need all the help I can get to shoot floating NPC bricks and space Barbie!!
Seriously, why are there people still complaining about any sort of balancing?
Have you still not worked out that it'd make the game far more interesting?
Can you seriously say this with a straight face after Kemo and Neutronic already have been nerfed into oblivion?! Even Bort came out and said Kemo (accidentally) got whacked a bit too hard.
At first I thought you PvP folks were just kidding here; but you're serious, aren't you? It's never enough.
That isn't what he said at all if you read it.
He said it got "wacked" cause it was hitting twice instead of once... which is something everyone that has ever used KEMO KNEW already... and most of us also realized it was a Bugged on purpose to sell boxes sorta thing and KNEW it would be fixed.
As far as the not critting... I hate to say it but it isn't going to add a ton of dmg to the skill when its fixed. The numbers are not big and the 20-30% of the hits that crit aren't going to put it back to a 40% of your DPS situation... that was coming from it hitting twice instead of once.
Can you honestly say you didn't realize it was borked ? Never mind arguing about that being intentional or not.
O, Kemo was definitely borked. But then they fixed it. And then, with the Anniversary, they broke it again, LOL (but this time in the wrong direction, as crits alltogether got disabled, except for torpedo spread, apparently). The surplus 'nerf' is what needs, and will be undone.
Sure and they said it would be. I am simply pointing out that plenty of folks seem like there still going to be hoping mad. Cause frankly allowing a few K worth of dmg to crit again isn't going to make it a must have skill anymore. Folks that where racking up massive increases in DMG are not going to be getting that back. It is now a 5-20% of your DPS type skill which is fitting for a one slot skill. Gone forever is the messed up 40% of your DPS number skill it was. I for one am glad that for once a bugged not intended change goes the other direction... I would rather it not crit for a few weeks then always crit or something as stupid.
It will be staying on my ships... cause hey I stopped using energy 3 years ago when it got boring as heck. Still adds a nice bit of DPS to my torp boat, but if I feel like switching out and running a Shockwave or something for fun on my varo I'm not giving up half my dmg to do it... so I am glad its been fixed myself.
Anyways, I am not sure what you are doing wrong but Kemocite is fine. They did not nerf it into the ground. They simply fixed it, and fixed the torpedo problem. I have been using Kemocite II and I can tell you that it works and it works well. My DPS is substantially higher, and using Reciprocity, I never have to look down and see it on cooldown. If you are running the Neutronic Torpedo/Gel pack set up it makes it that much better. I have played around with both Kemocite II and III and they all seem to work. Ships blow up faster in a glorious explosion of radiation.
Fix your build
*sigh*
Where do I start with this.....
.....
... Nah, I have to get to work. I've explained it in detail before, and it'll get explained again once the latest round of test results come back in.
In short; the double-proc via FaW was fixed last patch to match the fix for TS. No more double-proc of KLW for TS or FaW.
The above is completely different from the KLW stacking bug, where if you slotted multiple copies of KLW, you benefit from them all, whether it was activated or not.
After the discussions with Borticus yesterday on how KLW should behave, we now have enough information to show that crits are NOT working properly for KLW, and that torps are not working properly with KLW (not receiving the proper # of procs).
The debuff for KLW IS working properly as of last test.
How KLW should work in its current form -
FaW & CSV do NOT cause AoE KLW explosions, but BO & CRF do. Chance to proc is 10% per SHOT.
TS has KLW proc on main target ONLY. Supposed to be one proc per torp. AoE blast radius is centered on main target.
HY is supposed to proc per torp impact. AoE blast radius is centered on the target.
Comments
Not seeing the problem other than its not acknowledge by cryptic as WAI. Those logs don't show how much of a dps boost you get from the resistance debuff either.
This part is most of the people forget about the debuff part. The ability is still very useful, but not going to be one of those "must haves" anymore.
I may stand alone on this opinion...but I actually like this.
Some enemy/faction comes out with a new weapon. Like all new weapons in war they are devastating and have little to no counters (think of the Breen energy weapon used during the Dominion War, the first mini gun or tank, jet, nuke, etc). Then after some time (and a little profit for Cryptic because, why not) the great science minds of the universe discover a way to neutralize the new weapons effects and it becomes just another nuisance you can counter if outfitted properly.
What I'm surprised about is the people who continually come across these obviously OP weapons and are still amazed at the nerf even though it happens basically EVERY SINGLE TIME. I mean, talk about a rational, repeating pattern. It's almost as reliable as clockwork.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
So what WAS the INTENT for Kemocite Laced Weaponry?
Once you've answered that, then you can make the value judgement over Working As Intended (or the much more likely, Broken As Intended).
A lot of time, Developers (in general) will attempt to "hide" behind the Working/Broken differential, where the bar is essentially set at whether or not something crashes the game (fatal error vs non-fatal error) or even if it's having an effect AT ALL. Rarely do I see an analysis of whether the INTENDED effect is something that has been well thought out ... or even "sane" given the context of the game around the issue. Unfortunately, the only way to divine "Intent" is to piece together the clues based on what is (and has been) done ... and given the track record, in many cases the only possible logical conclusion is that the INTENT is fatally flawed, if not downright insane.
So I ask again, and would appreciate a chime in from any Community Moderators who can put the question to the relevant Developer(s) ... what was the INTENT for Kemocite Laced Weaponry?
Only once we've got an answer for the Intent can we properly judge if that Intent is being properly implemented enough to be considered "Working" ... or just Broken.
Nothing generates ill will and feelings faster than a Broken As Intended implementation.
Protonic Kool-Aid Down The Drain Cruiser
Immortal BOff Skills combo for Ground
Anyways, I am not sure what you are doing wrong but Kemocite is fine. They did not nerf it into the ground. They simply fixed it, and fixed the torpedo problem. I have been using Kemocite II and I can tell you that it works and it works well. My DPS is substantially higher, and using Reciprocity, I never have to look down and see it on cooldown. If you are running the Neutronic Torpedo/Gel pack set up it makes it that much better. I have played around with both Kemocite II and III and they all seem to work. Ships blow up faster in a glorious explosion of radiation.
Fix your build
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
There are two major ways in which Kemocite's behavior was altered with the Anniversary Patch, which I'll discuss individually.
1) Proc rate reduced during Torpedo Spread and Fire-at-Will
This change was intentional. It was discovered that both of these firing modes were checking their Proc Chance twice per activation - once on activation, and again when the damage is actually dealt. This is due to the complicated "reverse hit" mechanics involved with how they calculate which targets are affected. We fixed the issue, which brought the proc rate back down to expected levels - 10% on Energy Weapon activation, and 100% for Torpedoes (for a single hit, not two).
It was definitely not intentional that this fix was not documented in our patch notes. This was an oversight caused by an internal miscommunication. We're already working on avenues to prevent such things from happening again in the future. Generally speaking, if a change goes live without a patch note, it's almost always safe for players to assume that it was an unintended change, and should be treated as a bug. If it turns out to have been intentional, we'll put just as much effort into communicating that, as we would to fixing it if it's a bug.
If you're interested in helping, you're always welcome to run a few queues on Tribble each time a major build is released, and report any new or unexpected behavior. Might need to bring your own team, though!
2) No longer Crits, except under Torpedo Spread.
This was not an intentional change, and we're working on a fix to bring the behavior of Critical Hits back into play when using Kemocite. This fix is going to undergo a pretty extensive testing process though, so I don't anticipate it appearing on Holodeck for at least a month, maybe as much as two. It will be on Tribble very soon, however. We'd welcome additional testers to check out the fixed behavior when it arrives, and run a few scenarios to ensure we haven't overlooked any edge-case issues.
Cryptic - Lead Systems Designer
"Play smart!"
Thank you for the extensive clarification!
Kemocite's behavior with torps needs a balance pass for PvP's sake. Either that or reign in the neut torp's damage.
Again with the PvP nerfs?! Haven't you guys killed Kemo and Neut enough??! The rest of us wants to have a fun time too, you know!
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Lol, I haven't called for nerfs on any other torpedo like the quantum phase one for example. That one works perfectly.
Apparently. ;P
Seriously, though, both Kemo and Neutronic torp have been nerfed enough! (And a little beyond that)
There are other aspects of this game. Do you guys REALLY need that much more help against these TRIBBLE NPCs that don't do anything to you but take damage?
If your TOYs get nerfed. it has NOTHING at all to do with anyone that PvPs in this game. (the few that still bother)
Cryptic does not care about PvP get over it... if your toys get fixed its because they where broken by design and if you don't get that 6 years in; I am not sure there is much I can tell you.
Cryptic sells bugs... that is what they do. They always always always have 4 or 5 items/skills or what have you that are broken. I am not saying overpowered I mean honest to goodness broken, on purpose. When the sell through hits a set number, they "fix" because you are intended to purchase the next bug.
If you want to know what the next bug is .... go and look at the exchange and examine the pricing on the new stuff, it will be clear what you are intended to buy.
Seriously, why are there people still complaining about any sort of balancing?
Have you still not worked out that it'd make the game far more interesting?
Can you seriously say this with a straight face after Kemo and Neutronic already have been nerfed into oblivion?! Even Bort came out and said Kemo (accidentally) got whacked a bit too hard.
At first I thought you PvP folks were just kidding here; but you're serious, aren't you? It's never enough.
That isn't what he said at all if you read it.
He said it got "wacked" cause it was hitting twice instead of once... which is something everyone that has ever used KEMO KNEW already... and most of us also realized it was a Bugged on purpose to sell boxes sorta thing and KNEW it would be fixed.
As far as the not critting... I hate to say it but it isn't going to add a ton of dmg to the skill when its fixed. The numbers are not big and the 20-30% of the hits that crit aren't going to put it back to a 40% of your DPS situation... that was coming from it hitting twice instead of once.
Can you honestly say you didn't realize it was borked ? Never mind arguing about that being intentional or not.
O, Kemo was definitely borked. But then they fixed it. And then, with the Anniversary, they broke it again, LOL (but this time in the wrong direction, as crits alltogether got disabled, except for torpedo spread, apparently). The surplus 'nerf' is what needs, and will be undone.
Sure and they said it would be. I am simply pointing out that plenty of folks seem like there still going to be hoping mad. Cause frankly allowing a few K worth of dmg to crit again isn't going to make it a must have skill anymore. Folks that where racking up massive increases in DMG are not going to be getting that back. It is now a 5-20% of your DPS type skill which is fitting for a one slot skill. Gone forever is the messed up 40% of your DPS number skill it was. I for one am glad that for once a bugged not intended change goes the other direction... I would rather it not crit for a few weeks then always crit or something as stupid.
It will be staying on my ships... cause hey I stopped using energy 3 years ago when it got boring as heck. Still adds a nice bit of DPS to my torp boat, but if I feel like switching out and running a Shockwave or something for fun on my varo I'm not giving up half my dmg to do it... so I am glad its been fixed myself.
*sigh*
Where do I start with this.....
.....
... Nah, I have to get to work. I've explained it in detail before, and it'll get explained again once the latest round of test results come back in.
In short; the double-proc via FaW was fixed last patch to match the fix for TS. No more double-proc of KLW for TS or FaW.
The above is completely different from the KLW stacking bug, where if you slotted multiple copies of KLW, you benefit from them all, whether it was activated or not.
After the discussions with Borticus yesterday on how KLW should behave, we now have enough information to show that crits are NOT working properly for KLW, and that torps are not working properly with KLW (not receiving the proper # of procs).
The debuff for KLW IS working properly as of last test.
How KLW should work in its current form -
FaW & CSV do NOT cause AoE KLW explosions, but BO & CRF do. Chance to proc is 10% per SHOT.
TS has KLW proc on main target ONLY. Supposed to be one proc per torp. AoE blast radius is centered on main target.
HY is supposed to proc per torp impact. AoE blast radius is centered on the target.
Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.