The most fun I'm having right now came from jumping off the beamboat train and putting together a canon-ish T5U Fleet Luna. Brittle as all get out - even with an engineer at the helm - but its an incredible sight when all the firepower and sci magic comes together. Graga Mal wasn't cheap, but he was worth it.
You are correct. It is cute when someone asks something such as that. I wonder how long it will be before we see a thread where the following is emblazoned in bold type - Terran Paradox suxs! Won't pew pew! I hate you, cryptic!"?
Wasn't there already a thread complaining about the Paradox exactly due to that?
I don't mind people asking questions in the DPS channels (I ask a lot of questions too). I don't think there are any real dumb questions either. I'd prefer a person who'd ask questions because they honestly didn't know than one who'd assume they knew bettter than you or even worse, everything (much like the person the OP was talking about).
On another note @warmaker001b would be you mind answering those questions? I am familiar with some but not all due to my low PVP experience. Although I will likely never participate in it much I'm always curious to learn new things...
Haha, sure. Just keep in mind I haven't PVP'ed in ages. So, unless things have changed...
"How do you resist a drain build?"
Power Insulators Skill in general. However, when you get hit by drain attacks, it's not by a single drain ability. Energy Siphon, Tyken's Rift, and the buffed Tachyon Beam. There is an old ploy, especially in a team environment, where you're going to get pinned in one place/CC'ed and then get slammed by Energy Siphon, Tyken's Rift. Another trick is to get you to burn your Evasive Maneuvers, APO, then pin you, then hit you with drain attacks. You can't allow yourself to be sitting stuck in a Tyken's Rift while getting slammed with other drain attacks. Buffed Tachyon Beam however is real nasty in a high Flow Caps build. When I last PVP long ago, TachBm was a trash ability. When it got buffed, I had friends that did 1v1 experiments and even on a tough ship like a Galaxy with solid PI, my buddy in the Palisade drain boat ripped those shields away to get at the hull underneath.
Drain Builds have traditionally been a decent route to pursue because the typical player did not devote a huge amount into Power Insulator Skill. Maybe 6 points into PI and whatever bonus from their equipment that just so happens to be there in their build. This is the same in both PVP and PVE.
Also, a very old detail that may have very well changed... high EPS? That makes you more vulnerable to a drain build
"How do you get out of a Tractor Beam?" (You'd be surprised how many don't know)
APO, Evasive Maneuvers, Polarize Hull are your "Get Out of TB Jail" Cards. Aux2Damp doesn't make you immune to tractor beams but it lessens its hold effects on you so that you can still move, though at a slower rate. APO, Evasive Maneuvers breaks you free. Also, while APO makes you immune to holds, it does not make you immune to the damage effects of TBR. Polarize Hull makes you immune to tractor beams, even TBR (even in PVE, if I anticipate doing a lot of Terran Empire opposition, I slot PH to stop the damage NPC TBRs do to me). You have to be fast though. Typically if you get tractored, there's a whole world of hurt that's about to come your way in the next second or two. Since you're tractored, you're held in place and not moving. If you're not moving, your Bonus Defense is Zero or maybe even Negative. You tractor someone to set them up for your team or for your personal Alpha Strike / Spike attacks.
"How do you improve disables or protect / resist against disables?"
There's 2 very generic forms of disables. Subsystem Disables and the kind that shuts down your ability to do anything. For this question, we're talking the latter and Photonic Shockwave is an example of such an attack. Tricobalt weapons have a disable component but almost nobody uses Trics anymore. You've probably noticed this even in PVE on the rare few NPCs that have PSW and your ability tray blacks out a few seconds. These kinds of disables are typically short duration. Engineering Team will cancel it but the duration is short enough that many wondered if it was worth burning a valuable ET against such an attack. Anyways:
Subspace Decompiler is the skillbox that all disables of this type feed off of. Aux may play a role also but it's been a long time since I used such builds.
Inertial Dampeners Skill is the skillbox to resist, lessen the duration of these attacks.
Long ago, PSW used to be heavily featured by players to disable someone for a few seconds while you plow away with everything you got. Cryptic nerfed PSW hard by lessening its range and made these kinds of things much harder to do in an attack sequence. Again, when I stopped, these were rare builds but it is out there.
"What does DOFF'ed Scramble Sensors do to you, what dangers does it present, how do you overcome its effects?"
First, Scramble Sensors by itself gets the targets (it's an AOE ability around the target) to target friendlies. That means they can attack their own teammates. If you got some SPACEBAR Mouthbreathers in that area, that's more than enough.
The next big dangers is if SS is DOFFed. This gives SS an extra component where the targets ability tray goes into a short cooldown cycle. This can be very disrupting.
Reducing the effects is done with higher Starship Sensor Skill. Science Team to stop the effects. HOWEVER... please make sure that what healing abilities you use, do not target an enemy while under the effects of SS
"What are the signs of Viral Matrix used on you, what does it do, and what resists it? What removes the effects?"
I mentioned earlier 2 types of disables. I covered one, VM is the second type. There are 2 immediate signs VM being used on you. You'll hear the sound of what seems "electronic" in nature, like a bad radio transmission. If you look on your Subsystem Power, your Weapons, Engines, Aux Power may randomly be shutting completely off. This isn't a drain attack like Energy Siphon taking power away. VM is just killing that system for a few seconds and jumps around to different ones. This can be disruptive to play as you can visibly see their ship's cycle of abilities "hiccup" here and there. VM however got nerfed VERY HARD long ago by no longer being able to affect Shield Subsystem.
Resist it? Inertial Dampener Skill does. To clear it, though VM is a Science debuff, Science Team does NOT remove it! Engineering Team does. Also, I'd imagine Iconian Space Set components may help, though this came long after I stopped in PVP. The thing with Iconian Space Set is that it quickly brings back certain disabled subsystems.
"How do you detect cloaked opponents?" (Good times picking off a cloaker who thought he was safe)
This is a very long answer. What I'm going to do is refer you to an old thread that heavily encompassed this. This game changed a lot but Stealth is IMO, an untouched affair. Aux Power, Sensor Skill, DOFFed Tactical Team, Science Vessels and even at least some Carriers are tools to help detect cloaked ships. The best I've personally done was seeing people about 14km away. But there are guys, especially Feds, that have been known to see players out to almost twice that range. The Nebula is hands down the best in detecting cloaked ships but one of its consoles can be used in other ships. This gives Feds/Fed-Roms an advantage in detecting cloaked ships.
"You've just been SubNuk'ed by a SCI Captain. What do you do?"
The main purpose of SNB is to strip buffs away off of a target. When a SCI Captain wants to do that on you, there's nothing you can do but take it. However, it has a secondary effect in that it puts your abilities on a very long cooldown cycle. Science Team clears this dangerous effect but it won't bring back the buffs that were stripped away. That damage is already done to you.
"An Aceton Assimilator is sitting a few Km in front of you. What do you do and what should you NOT do?"
LOL, this is an oldie bug a goodie! Do not engage it with energy weapons. And for the love of Gene Rodenberry, Kirk, Picard, Da Sisko, please, DO NOT Alpha Strike it with your energy weapons with you and your teammates are in range of its aura. Kinetic damage easily neutralizes AA. Energy weapons fire is like poking a stick at a big beehive. I can't tell you how often Feds used to fall for AA. An even dirtier trick I used to do with my B'Rel was to fly near a group of enemy players (cloaked of course), drop an AA near them and fire a doffed Scramble Sensor into their center-most ship. Good times, good times.
To help you against some of these science special effects, there is also the old doff, a variant of Warp Core Engineer, that gives a chance, upon using an EPT_ ability to clear all debuffs. This was a big kick against Science but requires giving up an Active DOFF slot to do it.
Science play was traditionally very tricky, especially after the shared CDs between Tac/Eng/Sci Team was removed. Science was a dirty little game in getting guys to burn the abilities that they have that counter yours early. Once those abilities were used up, that's when you laid into them. This "dirty little game" gets even worse in a team setting.
Again, this is all very old knowledge. The game may have changed but I have a feeling most of this is still the same. The meta has changed, especially with DR hitting, but these old mechanics are still there.
0
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,666Community Moderator
There is some science NPCs out there still. Breen use Subnuc, and Hirogen use Subnuc.
Just not enough for people to be ready for it.
Science can frak you up man. You get someone in a Megawell... everything within a 12 kilometer radius is gonna find itself sucked in for some Togetherness Time. Space Magic is powerful shtako in the right hands. Everyone is going DPS or GTFO these days so a good Science Boot to the Head is due to remind them that there is more than one way to play. Should shake things up. But lately everythings been Tac Tac Tac. Tac Heavy cruisers. Escorts. Only real deviation from that beside the Sarr Theln was the Jupiter. There hasn't been a decent Science ship for KDF or Romulans either so that kinda forces them down on particular path.
BTW I'm not a PvPer, but I do see the value of tactics. And Space Magic Science is more than viable.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
Very informative! These are the reasons I love Science soo much! Science has soo much to offer in terms of play styles and team mechanics (before DR some.of the highest damage teams I ever saw was done with 2 or 3 Sci Captians synchronizing their Sensor Scans to utterly destroy any and all damage resistances a enemy (Player or NPC) had.
Back in the good old days Science was necessary for CC and Debuffing (ask anyone who played the old STFs like good ol Donatra and her magical Sphere pooping Scimitar *the spheres she spawned used to make runs for the portal and make you fail! Guess who had to stop that mess?* and the fact a good Sensor Scramble made her blast her own support rather than your team was a god send.)
Thanks warmaker! Very interesting Information... I'm thinking about playing around with more specific disable and control/confuse builds but I've no idea where to start so it's gonna take some intense research.
I'm also working on a science guide for beginners to help spread the knowledge of how to use basic science to the wider player base. If I can find time between work and studying for exams I'll post that soon.
Thanks warmaker! Very interesting Information... I'm thinking about playing around with more specific disable and control/confuse builds but I've no idea where to start so it's gonna take some intense research.
I'm also working on a science guide for beginners to help spread the knowledge of how to use basic science to the wider player base. If I can find time between work and studying for exams I'll post that soon.
It's going to be tricky. Like I mentioned, some of those abilities got nerfed pretty hard. Some of the skill boxes they feed off of are very hard to get high. Subspace Decompiler Skill is the perfect example because of the limited sources to increase it compared to Flow Caps and Particle Generator. Flow Caps for Drain Boats, PartGens for the Exotic Builds are likely the easiest entry to Science, especially PartGens. PartGens is likely more familiar for more players because it has good use in PVE also, compared to a Disable Build that has little to no use in PVE.
And to throw something else into the confusing mess are specialization abilities. Intel in particular had a very notorious reputation in PVP when I read about it when DR hit.
Just build what you want and enjoy playing about with it to optimise it. I love being in somewhere like a battlezone and whilst everyone else is off spamming beams all over the place I'll pick a single npc and test out my drains or my disables on it. Sure I kill one single enemy whilst other massacre the map but if my build works that's me happy. And I then know what works so I can improve on it and expand it to affect more enemies or kill faster.
Science is so poorly understood by most people and it's partly the game's fault to be honest. Everything is pew-pew focused that most players never need touch a science ship. And when it comes to endgame dil/marks farming everything comes down to speed runs over in seconds. But a good science build can lock down half the map with a 20km wide grav well, or kill an entire fleet through their shields with DRB, or one shot a tac cube with Isokinetic cannon, or even get your enemies to kill themselves with Scramble Sensors or FBP.
I've seen many a PVE queue saved by a science ship using space magic at just the right moment, knowing that if that sci boat was a tac we'd have failed. "MOAR DPS!" does not solve every problem.
Cannon/Torp is making a comeback. The Hestia is a BEAST. 2x DHC forward, 2x Torps, 1 Omni, 2 Turrets + Concentrate Fire x3 /CRF x2/HY x2/ BO x2 And you can still fit a gravity well on her,
More complaining about people using BFAW. Well, people like to feel special, so they call others sheep.
But you're Special Too! In fact you're so special, Cryptic arranged things so you only have to push one key on your computer. Just like when you play all those Facebook games! Isn't that nice of them! And, again, just like those Facebook games. they're busy taking your money as fast as they can!
BFAW is win win win for everyone, isn't it?
A six year old boy and his starship. Living the dream.
I have the Antiproton Torpedo from that special CCA way back when. I decided to build an all AP boat with DC's. the Ancient Omni beam and the torp. Someone accused me of using an exploit and hacking the game. Claimed he reported me to a GM. Yeah, riiiight. You'd have an easier time finding Bigfoot or a UFO than finding an STO GM.
A six year old boy and his starship. Living the dream.
Comments
> People claiming AP beams are best are a bit behind the curve, anyway. Apparently Green is the new Red.
yap
Wasn't there already a thread complaining about the Paradox exactly due to that?
I don't mind people asking questions in the DPS channels (I ask a lot of questions too). I don't think there are any real dumb questions either. I'd prefer a person who'd ask questions because they honestly didn't know than one who'd assume they knew bettter than you or even worse, everything (much like the person the OP was talking about).
| USS Curiosity - Pathfinder | USS Rift - Eternal |
The Science Ship Build Thread - Share your Sci Ship builds here!
I use the Reman set, and everyone keeps telling me "its the worst set in the game". Hardly...
Haha, sure. Just keep in mind I haven't PVP'ed in ages. So, unless things have changed...
Drain Builds have traditionally been a decent route to pursue because the typical player did not devote a huge amount into Power Insulator Skill. Maybe 6 points into PI and whatever bonus from their equipment that just so happens to be there in their build. This is the same in both PVP and PVE.
Also, a very old detail that may have very well changed... high EPS? That makes you more vulnerable to a drain build
"How do you get out of a Tractor Beam?" (You'd be surprised how many don't know)
"How do you improve disables or protect / resist against disables?"
Subspace Decompiler is the skillbox that all disables of this type feed off of. Aux may play a role also but it's been a long time since I used such builds.
Inertial Dampeners Skill is the skillbox to resist, lessen the duration of these attacks.
Long ago, PSW used to be heavily featured by players to disable someone for a few seconds while you plow away with everything you got. Cryptic nerfed PSW hard by lessening its range and made these kinds of things much harder to do in an attack sequence. Again, when I stopped, these were rare builds but it is out there.
"What does DOFF'ed Scramble Sensors do to you, what dangers does it present, how do you overcome its effects?"
The next big dangers is if SS is DOFFed. This gives SS an extra component where the targets ability tray goes into a short cooldown cycle. This can be very disrupting.
Reducing the effects is done with higher Starship Sensor Skill. Science Team to stop the effects. HOWEVER... please make sure that what healing abilities you use, do not target an enemy while under the effects of SS
"What are the signs of Viral Matrix used on you, what does it do, and what resists it? What removes the effects?"
Resist it? Inertial Dampener Skill does. To clear it, though VM is a Science debuff, Science Team does NOT remove it! Engineering Team does. Also, I'd imagine Iconian Space Set components may help, though this came long after I stopped in PVP. The thing with Iconian Space Set is that it quickly brings back certain disabled subsystems.
"How do you detect cloaked opponents?" (Good times picking off a cloaker who thought he was safe)
"You've just been SubNuk'ed by a SCI Captain. What do you do?"
"An Aceton Assimilator is sitting a few Km in front of you. What do you do and what should you NOT do?"
To help you against some of these science special effects, there is also the old doff, a variant of Warp Core Engineer, that gives a chance, upon using an EPT_ ability to clear all debuffs. This was a big kick against Science but requires giving up an Active DOFF slot to do it.
Science play was traditionally very tricky, especially after the shared CDs between Tac/Eng/Sci Team was removed. Science was a dirty little game in getting guys to burn the abilities that they have that counter yours early. Once those abilities were used up, that's when you laid into them. This "dirty little game" gets even worse in a team setting.
Again, this is all very old knowledge. The game may have changed but I have a feeling most of this is still the same. The meta has changed, especially with DR hitting, but these old mechanics are still there.
Just not enough for people to be ready for it.
Science can frak you up man. You get someone in a Megawell... everything within a 12 kilometer radius is gonna find itself sucked in for some Togetherness Time. Space Magic is powerful shtako in the right hands. Everyone is going DPS or GTFO these days so a good Science Boot to the Head is due to remind them that there is more than one way to play. Should shake things up. But lately everythings been Tac Tac Tac. Tac Heavy cruisers. Escorts. Only real deviation from that beside the Sarr Theln was the Jupiter. There hasn't been a decent Science ship for KDF or Romulans either so that kinda forces them down on particular path.
BTW I'm not a PvPer, but I do see the value of tactics. And Space Magic Science is more than viable.
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
Back in the good old days Science was necessary for CC and Debuffing (ask anyone who played the old STFs like good ol Donatra and her magical Sphere pooping Scimitar *the spheres she spawned used to make runs for the portal and make you fail! Guess who had to stop that mess?* and the fact a good Sensor Scramble made her blast her own support rather than your team was a god send.)
I'm also working on a science guide for beginners to help spread the knowledge of how to use basic science to the wider player base. If I can find time between work and studying for exams I'll post that soon.
It's going to be tricky. Like I mentioned, some of those abilities got nerfed pretty hard. Some of the skill boxes they feed off of are very hard to get high. Subspace Decompiler Skill is the perfect example because of the limited sources to increase it compared to Flow Caps and Particle Generator. Flow Caps for Drain Boats, PartGens for the Exotic Builds are likely the easiest entry to Science, especially PartGens. PartGens is likely more familiar for more players because it has good use in PVE also, compared to a Disable Build that has little to no use in PVE.
And to throw something else into the confusing mess are specialization abilities. Intel in particular had a very notorious reputation in PVP when I read about it when DR hit.
I love being in somewhere like a battlezone and whilst everyone else is off spamming beams all over the place I'll pick a single npc and test out my drains or my disables on it. Sure I kill one single enemy whilst other massacre the map but if my build works that's me happy.
And I then know what works so I can improve on it and expand it to affect more enemies or kill faster.
Science is so poorly understood by most people and it's partly the game's fault to be honest. Everything is pew-pew focused that most players never need touch a science ship. And when it comes to endgame dil/marks farming everything comes down to speed runs over in seconds.
But a good science build can lock down half the map with a 20km wide grav well, or kill an entire fleet through their shields with DRB, or one shot a tac cube with Isokinetic cannon, or even get your enemies to kill themselves with Scramble Sensors or FBP.
I've seen many a PVE queue saved by a science ship using space magic at just the right moment, knowing that if that sci boat was a tac we'd have failed. "MOAR DPS!" does not solve every problem.
Who is going to be the winner?
In my experience peeps that use both.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
BFAW is win win win for everyone, isn't it?
The Luna is good enough for Admiral Riker, its good enough for me. Its STO canon and the best looking sci ship of the lot.
null
So whoever has the most buttons on the screen wins? That's a new one.