Basically, they haven't locked down likeness permissions on deLancie (or his son) but they can get by with an older version of his son for the time being. Given that the likeness isn't exact, the costume helps sell the look.
They might be able to get by with an extra fancy gold leaf Starfleet uniform like Q wore a time or two but they need the costume to sell who he's supposed to be until and unless they can get the face a bit closer to John and/or Keegan deLancie.
Presumably, they could have Picard show up in an EV suit (and we've been told that kind of thing is clear for Foundry missions) but they can't show Stewart. Having an inaccurate Q in the robes is a quick shorthand for who he is without the likeness.
They might (or might not, depending on actor contracts) need to pay deLancie but they definitely need the time to get the face right regardless... and have said any face touch-ups would likely come alongside getting deLancie to sign on for voice work. If the face were more dead on, like I say, they'd probably scale back the use of the judge's robes (which I honestly think also need an art update just to give the fabric more depth and looseness).
Eh, I think that's a bit silly and unnecessary, though. I mean, Honestly, do you think the fan base wouldn't recognize Q if he didn't have the Judge outfit on? He'd be turning people into spiders, floating in the air, and have the name "Q" floating in text above his freaking head. This "It's recognizable and iconic" thing feels like a solution to a problem that isn't there to begin with.
Actually, if they really wanted to make him seem like Q, Rather than appear in the middle of ESD, he should be hanging out in Quinn's office with his feet on the desk, while Quinn looks on in annoyance from the side. Or at least sitting on the desk, if moving other NPCs around is too much of a chore.
(Edit: Oh, better idea: Put him in the captain chair of our own starships! Then we don't have to truck back to ESD (or use the FE hailing function) to turn in our missions. Ah, I can dream.)
Man, this whole discussion is making me wish for a proper Q featured episode.
Basically, they haven't locked down likeness permissions on deLancie (or his son) but they can get by with an older version of his son for the time being. Given that the likeness isn't exact, the costume helps sell the look.
They might be able to get by with an extra fancy gold leaf Starfleet uniform like Q wore a time or two but they need the costume to sell who he's supposed to be until and unless they can get the face a bit closer to John and/or Keegan deLancie.
Presumably, they could have Picard show up in an EV suit (and we've been told that kind of thing is clear for Foundry missions) but they can't show Stewart. Having an inaccurate Q in the robes is a quick shorthand for who he is without the likeness.
They might (or might not, depending on actor contracts) need to pay deLancie but they definitely need the time to get the face right regardless... and have said any face touch-ups would likely come alongside getting deLancie to sign on for voice work. If the face were more dead on, like I say, they'd probably scale back the use of the judge's robes (which I honestly think also need an art update just to give the fabric more depth and looseness).
Eh, I think that's a bit silly and unnecessary, though. I mean, Honestly, do you think the fan base wouldn't recognize Q if he didn't have the Judge outfit on? He'd be turning people into spiders, floating in the air, and have the name "Q" floating in text above his freaking head. This "It's recognizable and iconic" thing feels like a solution to a problem that isn't there to begin with.
what I think is silly and unnecessary is players worrying over the outfit that one characters wears for a couple of events throughout the year when there are much more pressing concerns in the game that really need the devs attention.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
Eh, I think that's a bit silly and unnecessary, though. I mean, Honestly, do you think the fan base wouldn't recognize Q if he didn't have the Judge outfit on? He'd be turning people into spiders, floating in the air, and have the name "Q" floating in text above his freaking head. This "It's recognizable and iconic" thing feels like a solution to a problem that isn't there to begin with.
what I think is silly and unnecessary is players worrying over the outfit that one characters wears for a couple of events throughout the year when there are much more pressing concerns in the game that really need the devs attention.
Sorry, I forgot that the devs instantly throw away whatever issues the game is facing to fully tailor the game to whatever frivolous issue happens to come up at the top of the general discussion forum. Clearly they are even now abandoning all plans for bug fixes and new episode content to prioritize Q's wardrobe. Quick, someone start a thread about how PVP is dead so we can get them back on track!
But seriously, STO is not just a random space MMO. It's an attempt to make players feel like they're immersed in the Star Trek universe, and to give them their own hopefully authentic star trek experience. Having characters dress and behave in authentic ways adds to the quality of the experience. Harry sounds like Harry. Spock looks like Spock. Tuvok acts like Tuvok. Seven has her little forehead borg thingie. I don't see how "I think Q is dressed out of character and here's why" is any less meaningful a critique than "The Galaxy-X doesn't quite look like it did in the show", or any other number of little errors.
In an episode of Star Trek, TNG, Picard once wore tight little swim trunks. He wore them because he was on vacation, on risa. There was a clear reason for it, it made sense, but if he showed up in game tomorrow and was always wearing that, everybody would rightly be a bit annoyed. Imagine if Worf was constantly dressed as little John, from the Robin Hood episode. Or if Data showed up and just wore his Sherlock Holmes costume all the time for no apparent reason.
Yes, this is a pretty minor issue. It would also be a pretty minimal effort to correct it, if they decided to. And it's honestly pretty secondary to several far larger issues that I have with the writing in this game, and it doesn't really bother me that much. Can you explain to me why -any- of that is a valid reason to suspend all discussion of it?
Without John de Lancie's likeness, Q in a Starfleet uniform would be completely unrecognizable. Just another Starfleet NPC. The judge costume makes him recognizable as Q.
Eh, I think that's a bit silly and unnecessary, though. I mean, Honestly, do you think the fan base wouldn't recognize Q if he didn't have the Judge outfit on? He'd be turning people into spiders, floating in the air, and have the name "Q" floating in text above his freaking head. This "It's recognizable and iconic" thing feels like a solution to a problem that isn't there to begin with.
what I think is silly and unnecessary is players worrying over the outfit that one characters wears for a couple of events throughout the year when there are much more pressing concerns in the game that really need the devs attention.
Sorry, I forgot that the devs instantly throw away whatever issues the game is facing to fully tailor the game to whatever frivolous issue happens to come up at the top of the general discussion forum. Clearly they are even now abandoning all plans for bug fixes and new episode content to prioritize Q's wardrobe. Quick, someone start a thread about how PVP is dead so we can get them back on track!
But seriously, STO is not just a random space MMO. It's an attempt to make players feel like they're immersed in the Star Trek universe, and to give them their own hopefully authentic star trek experience. Having characters dress and behave in authentic ways adds to the quality of the experience. Harry sounds like Harry. Spock looks like Spock. Tuvok acts like Tuvok. Seven has her little forehead borg thingie. I don't see how "I think Q is dressed out of character and here's why" is any less meaningful a critique than "The Galaxy-X doesn't quite look like it did in the show", or any other number of little errors.
But it's not out of character - if anything represents the Q's capriciousness and arrogance, then it's this piece of clothing.
Also, Tuvok, Leeta, Rom, Seven of Nine, Neelix and Kim are also very different from Q in two important regards:
- Cryptic actually has likeness rights here, and did try to get as close as possible to the actor's real faces.
- Cryptic has these people actually doing voice overs for their characters.
They have none of that. A visual shorthand - Q in his judge uniform is quite understandable and quite helpful, even to people that are not that familiar with Star Trek - if you remember that one character, you are almost guaranteed to know this special outfit. No one (significant) else dresses like that. Captain and Admiral uniforms were worn by dozens or hundreds of guest stars over the years. And the justification for him wearing a TNG uniform are exactly as bad as the justification for wearing the Judge costume - It would be anachronistic. The up to date 25th century uniform looks different. Why would Q wear an uniform from a time the most player characters would only know from the history books?
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
I think that the judges costume is meant to represent the Q's need for dramatic gestures whenever anything happens. For example in The Q and the Grey, the Q Civil War isn't simply the Q fighting each other they go all out to recreate the American Civil War.
In the context of Q appearing in-game, were he to appear in appropriate faction uniform on ESD, First City or New Romulus Command he could simply just be another NPC standing and admiring the view or getting underfoot (Ok, I realise we would know it was Q but lets suspend reality for a moment), so Q being Q has to have the dramatic "Hey look at me I'm different!!!" appearance.
Let's be honest Q (plural) have always been Diva's or different in some way, so much so that the single Q who tried to avoid the stereotypical diva behaviour stood out just as much by simply appearing normal.
Eh, I think that's a bit silly and unnecessary, though. I mean, Honestly, do you think the fan base wouldn't recognize Q if he didn't have the Judge outfit on? He'd be turning people into spiders, floating in the air, and have the name "Q" floating in text above his freaking head. This "It's recognizable and iconic" thing feels like a solution to a problem that isn't there to begin with.
what I think is silly and unnecessary is players worrying over the outfit that one characters wears for a couple of events throughout the year when there are much more pressing concerns in the game that really need the devs attention.
Sorry, I forgot that the devs instantly throw away whatever issues the game is facing to fully tailor the game to whatever frivolous issue happens to come up at the top of the general discussion forum. Clearly they are even now abandoning all plans for bug fixes and new episode content to prioritize Q's wardrobe. Quick, someone start a thread about how PVP is dead so we can get them back on track!
But seriously, STO is not just a random space MMO. It's an attempt to make players feel like they're immersed in the Star Trek universe, and to give them their own hopefully authentic star trek experience. Having characters dress and behave in authentic ways adds to the quality of the experience. Harry sounds like Harry. Spock looks like Spock. Tuvok acts like Tuvok. Seven has her little forehead borg thingie. I don't see how "I think Q is dressed out of character and here's why" is any less meaningful a critique than "The Galaxy-X doesn't quite look like it did in the show", or any other number of little errors.
In an episode of Star Trek, TNG, Picard once wore tight little swim trunks. He wore them because he was on vacation, on risa. There was a clear reason for it, it made sense, but if he showed up in game tomorrow and was always wearing that, everybody would rightly be a bit annoyed. Imagine if Worf was constantly dressed as little John, from the Robin Hood episode. Or if Data showed up and just wore his Sherlock Holmes costume all the time for no apparent reason.
Yes, this is a pretty minor issue. It would also be a pretty minimal effort to correct it, if they decided to. And it's honestly pretty secondary to several far larger issues that I have with the writing in this game, and it doesn't really bother me that much. Can you explain to me why -any- of that is a valid reason to suspend all discussion of it?
but the whole point is Q is not dressed out of character, he is dressed in an outfit that he is best known for, even if a random actor showed up in one of those fan made episodes you see on youtube wearing that outfit people watching it would instantly know he was playing a Q from the Q continuum, more so then they would if he was wearing any other outfit especially that of a star fleet officer.
this is why I think that its silly and unnecessary players worrying over the outfit when it is so clearly the best outfit the devs could dress him in whether they could use his likeness or not.
like I said there are a lot of things much more pressing in the game that the devs should be dealing with and perhaps we should be focusing our discussion on these rather then worrying over the outfit Q is wearing when it is so clearly the right outfit anyway.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
But seriously, STO is not just a random space MMO. It's an attempt to make players feel like they're immersed in the Star Trek universe, and to give them their own hopefully authentic star trek experience. Having characters dress and behave in authentic ways adds to the quality of the experience. Harry sounds like Harry. Spock looks like Spock. Tuvok acts like Tuvok. Seven has her little forehead borg thingie. I don't see how "I think Q is dressed out of character and here's why" is any less meaningful a critique than "The Galaxy-X doesn't quite look like it did in the show", or any other number of little errors.
But it's not out of character - if anything represents the Q's capriciousness and arrogance, then it's this piece of clothing.
Also, Tuvok, Leeta, Rom, Seven of Nine, Neelix and Kim are also very different from Q in two important regards:
- Cryptic actually has likeness rights here, and did try to get as close as possible to the actor's real faces.
- Cryptic has these people actually doing voice overs for their characters.
True, and honestly, If I was in charge of development for this game, I probably wouldn't worry about updating Q's appearance at all until some kind of substantial change was going to happen, like securing DeLancie's likeness and/or voice, or just doing an overhaul of the character, complete with a new actor and voice, possibly as part of a featured Episode. All I'm really trying to do with this thread (aside from discuss the character for the hell of it) is put the idea out there that maybe they should ditch the judge costume if they ever do that.
They have none of that. A visual shorthand - Q in his judge uniform is quite understandable and quite helpful, even to people that are not that familiar with Star Trek - if you remember that one character, you are almost guaranteed to know this special outfit. No one (significant) else dresses like that. Captain and Admiral uniforms were worn by dozens or hundreds of guest stars over the years. And the justification for him wearing a TNG uniform are exactly as bad as the justification for wearing the Judge costume - It would be anachronistic. The up to date 25th century uniform looks different. Why would Q wear an uniform from a time the most player characters would only know from the history books?
I'm not saying he should wear a TNG uniform. I'm saying he should be dressed in an era-appropriate uniform. When he was on TNG, he wore a TNG uniform. On DS9, he wore a DS9 uniform. On Voyager, he wore a Voyager-style/movie-era uniform. Q wears the starfleet uniform to tweak the nose of the uptight captains he interacts with. In general, his appearance is -always- a deliberate statement. He wears the judge uniform to make a statement about humanity's failings in the show. He doesn't wear it "just because" except in the case of the Q trio in Voyager, and that was just lazy costume design.
Again, he flies, turns people into animals with a flash of light, is surrounding by dancing monsters, and has the letter Q in floating text above his freaking head. His costume is not a necessary part of informing the players who he is.
If Q was hanging out in ESD in an odyssey captain's uniform, nobody familiar with the show would be confused, and everybody unfamiliar with the show would need an explanation -anyway-.
I also disagree with you that people unfamiliar with the show would recognize Q's outfit, unless it happened that the only episode they watched was the first or last one. Hell, tru-fans are way more likely to recognize the judge robes than casual viewers: Most people unfamiliar with the show, if they knew Q from a random episode they flipped to when nothing else was on, would more likely know him as that curly headed guy who dresses like Picard and pisses him off with his magic.
(Actually, they'd know him as "Q", because he's probably the most memorable freaking character on the show, but that's still more likely to be the description. ;p )
but the whole point is Q is not dressed out of character, he is dressed in an outfit that he is best known for,
But WHY is he best known for it? He hardly ever wore it, and when he did, it was for an explicit purpose. Did it imprint on you like a baby bird? Was it the first thing you ever saw? I don't get the attachment to the costume, and from an in-fiction perspective, it doesn't make any sense for him to wear it all the time.
even if a random actor showed up in one of those fan made episodes you see on youtube wearing that outfit people watching it would instantly know he was playing a Q from the Q continuum, more so then they would if he was wearing any other outfit especially that of a star fleet officer.
Then those people have never actually paid any attention to the show and are TRIBBLE writers. This is probably why fanfilms are often terrible.
this is why I think that its silly and unnecessary players worrying over the outfit when it is so clearly the best outfit the devs could dress him in whether they could use his likeness or not.
like I said there are a lot of things much more pressing in the game that the devs should be dealing with and perhaps we should be focusing our discussion on these rather then worrying over the outfit Q is wearing when it is so clearly the right outfit anyway.
Except apparently it isn't "so clearly" because we're arguing about it.
If Q was hanging out in ESD in an odyssey captain's uniform, nobody familiar with the show would be confused, and everybody unfamiliar with the show would need an explanation -anyway-.
If Q was hanging out in ESD in a Starfleet uniform, nobody would recognize him. He would look just like all the other random NPCs there.
Reading the floating tag over his head that says "Q" doesn't count as recognizing the character.
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
If Q was hanging out in ESD in an odyssey captain's uniform, nobody familiar with the show would be confused, and everybody unfamiliar with the show would need an explanation -anyway-.
If Q was hanging out in ESD in a Starfleet uniform, nobody would recognize him. He would look just like all the other random NPCs there.
Reading the floating tag over his head that says "Q" doesn't count as recognizing the character.
I do not understand how that works in your brain.
I don't mean that in a judgy or mean way. I just don't get your line of thinking.
To recognize someone is to look at them and be aware of who they are when you see them. You recognize someone based on past experience with their appearance. You know, we didn't always have Michael Dorn's likeness rights, but that doesn't mean the devs had to stick Worf in his old next gen outfit for people to recognize him. They saw an old klingon named Worf and went "Oh, that's who that's supposed to be". It was never a hurdle for me. McCoy and Scotty also don't particularly resemble the actors that played them, but it doesn't confuse me at all when they show up in the Dividian arc. These characters were all just dressed consistently with the people around them, but we recognize them by their names and actions.
Q wore a Starfleet uniform in every single appearance he ever made on any Star Trek program. Every one. It's often not the only thing he wore, but he always wore one. The other Q also tended to show up in normal clothes (for the era), until Voyager came along and turned them into civil war reenactors. A google image search of "Q Star Trek" shows Starfleet uniforms all over the place.
If this character is supposed to be Q Jr, then the Starfleet uniform is actually the only thing we ever saw him wear.
If Q was hanging out in ESD in an odyssey captain's uniform, nobody familiar with the show would be confused, and everybody unfamiliar with the show would need an explanation -anyway-.
If Q was hanging out in ESD in a Starfleet uniform, nobody would recognize him. He would look just like all the other random BNPCs there.
Reading the floating tag over his head that says "Q" doesn't count as recognizing the character.
I do not understand how that works in your brain.
I don't mean that in a judgy or mean way. I just don't get your line of thinking.
To recognize someone is to look at them and be aware of who they are when you see them. You recognize someone based on past experience with their appearance. You know, we didn't always have Michael Dorn's likeness rights, but that doesn't mean the devs had to stick Worf in his old next gen outfit for people to recognize him. They saw an old klingon named Worf and went "Oh, that's who that's supposed to be". It was never a hurdle for me. McCoy and Scotty also don't particularly resemble the actors that played them, but it doesn't confuse me at all when they show up in the Dividian arc. These characters were all just dressed consistently with the people around them, but we recognize them by their names and actions.
Q wore a Starfleet uniform in every single appearance he ever made on any Star Trek program. Every one. It's often not the only thing he wore, but he always wore one. The other Q also tended to show up in normal clothes (for the era), until Voyager came along and turned them into civil war reenactors. A google image search of "Q Star Trek" shows Starfleet uniforms all over the place.
If this character is supposed to be Q Jr, then the Starfleet uniform is actually the only thing we ever saw him wear.
The key word here is ICONIC...
Any Trek fan who's aware of the original character of "Q", will tell you it's the guy that wore the Red & Black Judges Outfit from The Next Generation TV show.
If any more of an explanation is required, then one is just splitting hairs to be annoying.
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
I don't mean that in a judgy or mean way. I just don't get your line of thinking.
To recognize someone is to look at them and be aware of who they are when you see them. You recognize someone based on past experience with their appearance. You know, we didn't always have Michael Dorn's likeness rights, but that doesn't mean the devs had to stick Worf in his old next gen outfit for people to recognize him. They saw an old klingon named Worf and went "Oh, that's who that's supposed to be". It was never a hurdle for me. McCoy and Scotty also don't particularly resemble the actors that played them, but it doesn't confuse me at all when they show up in the Dividian arc. These characters were all just dressed consistently with the people around them, but we recognize them by their names and actions.
Q wore a Starfleet uniform in every single appearance he ever made on any Star Trek program. Every one. It's often not the only thing he wore, but he always wore one. The other Q also tended to show up in normal clothes (for the era), until Voyager came along and turned them into civil war reenactors. A google image search of "Q Star Trek" shows Starfleet uniforms all over the place.
If this character is supposed to be Q Jr, then the Starfleet uniform is actually the only thing we ever saw him wear.
The key word here is ICONIC...
Any Trek fan who's aware of the original character of "Q", will tell you it's the guy that wore the Red & Black Judges Outfit from The Next Generation TV show.
If any more of an explanation is required, then one is just splitting hairs to be annoying.
That's not how I would describe him at all. I don't get why anybody would describe him that way. He almost never appears like that in the show. Hell, the only way that description makes sense to me is if somebody is NOT a Trek fan, who only watched the first episode of TNG and then lost interest.
Edit: But honestly, how iconic the costume is isn't the point. Princess Leia's hair buns are iconic as all hell, but she never wore her hair like that after the first film in that series, and it wouldn't have made too much sense if she showed up in the new movie looking like that. Just because something is iconic doesn't mean it makes sense for every appearance the character makes. And it seems downright insulting to me to suggest that people "wouldn't know" who he was if he didn't wear the iconic outfit.
I don't mean that in a judgy or mean way. I just don't get your line of thinking.
To recognize someone is to look at them and be aware of who they are when you see them. You recognize someone based on past experience with their appearance. You know, we didn't always have Michael Dorn's likeness rights, but that doesn't mean the devs had to stick Worf in his old next gen outfit for people to recognize him. They saw an old klingon named Worf and went "Oh, that's who that's supposed to be". It was never a hurdle for me. McCoy and Scotty also don't particularly resemble the actors that played them, but it doesn't confuse me at all when they show up in the Dividian arc. These characters were all just dressed consistently with the people around them, but we recognize them by their names and actions.
Q wore a Starfleet uniform in every single appearance he ever made on any Star Trek program. Every one. It's often not the only thing he wore, but he always wore one. The other Q also tended to show up in normal clothes (for the era), until Voyager came along and turned them into civil war reenactors. A google image search of "Q Star Trek" shows Starfleet uniforms all over the place.
If this character is supposed to be Q Jr, then the Starfleet uniform is actually the only thing we ever saw him wear.
The key word here is ICONIC...
Any Trek fan who's aware of the original character of "Q", will tell you it's the guy that wore the Red & Black Judges Outfit from The Next Generation TV show.
If any more of an explanation is required, then one is just splitting hairs to be annoying.
That's not how I would describe him at all. I don't get why anybody would describe him that way. He almost never appears like that in the show. Hell, the only way that description makes sense to me is if somebody is NOT a Trek fan, who only watched the first episode of TNG and then lost interest.
You left out two very important things...
The word ICONIC and the fact that he wore the EXACT SAME OUTFIT in the Final Episode of TNG harking back to the Very First Episode.
As I said, "Splitting Hairs" is extremely annoying.
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Q wore a Starfleet uniform in every single appearance he ever made on any Star Trek program. Every one. It's often not the only thing he wore, but he always wore one. The other Q also tended to show up in normal clothes (for the era), until Voyager came along and turned them into civil war reenactors. A google image search of "Q Star Trek" shows Starfleet uniforms all over the place.
If this character is supposed to be Q Jr, then the Starfleet uniform is actually the only thing we ever saw him wear.
Q also wore a French Field Marshal's uniform in his second appearance yet I would wager that most people would not recognize what the uniform was or who the character was supposed to be if he was dressed that way.
Yeah? That's my point, though. The outfit he wore once (or twice, in this case) vs. the way he was dressed every single time he showed up.
those of you who are unhappy with Q I suggest you petition the devs to dress him in a star fleet uniform on ESD, a Klingon outfit on Qo'nos and a romulan outfit at new romulus command so he will fit in with his surroundings as that seems to be how you think he should be dressed, then he will look like nothing special just another regular NPC you see in those places all the time and you can be happy and sleep much better instead of fretting over such an all important issue.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
Any Trek fan who's aware of the original character of "Q", will tell you it's the guy that wore the Red & Black Judges Outfit from The Next Generation TV show.
If any more of an explanation is required, then one is just splitting hairs to be annoying.
That's not how I would describe him at all. I don't get why anybody would describe him that way. He almost never appears like that in the show. Hell, the only way that description makes sense to me is if somebody is NOT a Trek fan, who only watched the first episode of TNG and then lost interest.
You left out two very important things...
The word ICONIC and the fact that he wore the EXACT SAME OUTFIT in the Final Episode of TNG harking back to the Very First Episode.
As I said, "Splitting Hairs" is extremely annoying.
How am I splitting hairs? I fundamentally disagree with your entire line of reasoning. Yes, he wore the outfit twice. In both instances where he wore the outfit, he was deliberately sitting in judgement over humanity's past barbarism. He wore the outfit twice for a reason that was in keeping with his character. That isn't the case in STO. And yeah, I'll acknowledge that the outfit is iconic. Lots of things are iconic to a particular character. it doesn't mean it makes sense to use them every time that character appears.
Any Trek fan who's aware of the original character of "Q", will tell you it's the guy that wore the Red & Black Judges Outfit from The Next Generation TV show.
If any more of an explanation is required, then one is just splitting hairs to be annoying.
That's not how I would describe him at all. I don't get why anybody would describe him that way. He almost never appears like that in the show. Hell, the only way that description makes sense to me is if somebody is NOT a Trek fan, who only watched the first episode of TNG and then lost interest.
You left out two very important things...
The word ICONIC and the fact that he wore the EXACT SAME OUTFIT in the Final Episode of TNG harking back to the Very First Episode.
As I said, "Splitting Hairs" is extremely annoying.
How am I splitting hairs? I fundamentally disagree with your entire line of reasoning. Yes, he wore the outfit twice. In both instances where he wore the outfit, he was deliberately sitting in judgement over humanity's past barbarism. He wore the outfit twice for a reason that was in keeping with his character. That isn't the case in STO. And yeah, I'll acknowledge that the outfit is iconic. Lots of things are iconic to a particular character. it doesn't mean it makes sense to use them every time that character appears.
Now yer jest being...
Ah what the Hell...,
I don't really give a krap anymore...
You go with that, if it makes ya all warm and fuzzy inside.
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Q wore a Starfleet uniform in every single appearance he ever made on any Star Trek program. Every one. It's often not the only thing he wore, but he always wore one. The other Q also tended to show up in normal clothes (for the era), until Voyager came along and turned them into civil war reenactors. A google image search of "Q Star Trek" shows Starfleet uniforms all over the place.
If this character is supposed to be Q Jr, then the Starfleet uniform is actually the only thing we ever saw him wear.
Q also wore a French Field Marshal's uniform in his second appearance yet I would wager that most people would not recognize what the uniform was or who the character was supposed to be if he was dressed that way.
Yeah? That's my point, though. The outfit he wore once (or twice, in this case) vs. the way he was dressed every single time he showed up.
I guess you don't understand what "iconic" means here. It's not important that he wears the outfit a lot - it's important that he wears the outfit when he's introduced and that it stands for something he's about - he's always judging humanity, constantly questioning humanity's convictions and morals. In his Starfleet uniform, he doesn't stand out. He's in incognito, basically, pretending to blend in.
Of course, this is suggested to not be Q, but actually Q Junior. Q Junior doesn't seem to be the judge in STO. He's the jester - and he likes to get into costume.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Q also wore a French Field Marshal's uniform in his second appearance yet I would wager that most people would not recognize what the uniform was or who the character was supposed to be if he was dressed that way.
Yeah? That's my point, though. The outfit he wore once (or twice, in this case) vs. the way he was dressed every single time he showed up.
I guess you don't understand what "iconic" means here.
I understand the meaning well enough. The attitude in the thread seems to be that his outfit is instantly recognizable. It's something we only ever saw on a Q in the context of the actual show. My attitude is that that doesn't matter: For one, I think it's patronizing to suggest that people can't recognize Q as Q without a silly outfit. I think everybody reading this thread would easily be able to recognize Q if he was just wearing a starfleet uniform, as long as he acts like Q. To suggest that he has to have the iconic judge's outfit for people to recognize him a Q is silly when he almost never wore the freaking thing.
Secondly, for a well written story, a character who can literally look like anything he wants at any time he wants, his appearance should be a reflection of either who he is, or what he's trying to say. It shouldn't be a lazy way of getting the player to recognize him just because the devs don't have likeness rights.
It's not important that he wears the outfit a lot - it's important that he wears the outfit when he's introduced and that it stands for something he's about - he's always judging humanity, constantly questioning humanity's convictions and morals. In his Starfleet uniform, he doesn't stand out. He's in incognito, basically, pretending to blend in.
I'd actually argue that his Starfleet uniform was more about deliberately acting the foil to Picard and the others: taking something that is important and valuable to the people he's "playing" with and showing them that it's meaningless to him.
Of course, this is suggested to not be Q, but actually Q Junior. Q Junior doesn't seem to be the judge in STO. He's the jester - and he likes to get into costume.
Thank you for that. That last sentence is the first thing in this entire thread that actually is trying to take into account the personality of the character. I would argue that the uniform of a genocidal regime is a terrible costume for a jester, but at least it has something to do with the character.
Seriously, I get that it's one of the first and last things we ever saw him wear, but in the series, that is the outfit of a judge from a 22nd century facist dictatorship that preceded the Federation. He wore it in the series because he was making a point about humanity's barbarism.
By -far-, the most common outfits he wore during all of his appearances were era-appropriate starfleet uniforms. It's kinda weird that he shows up several times a year to literally play games with us while wearing the costume of a mass-murdering regime. It's like a mall Santa showing up for Christmas in SS regalia.
(Note: Yes, I know that in Voyager, they threw several members of the continuum in that outfit, this is part of why Voyager was terrible.)
Also, when are we getting John DeLancie to come in and lend his likeness and voice to the character?
it is to distinguish the Q character from another generic looking NPC, and Joh de Lancie wants nothing to do with STO, and the price tag for his appearance would be staggering.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
> @heavensrun said: > This has been bugging me for awhile. > > Seriously, I get that it's one of the first and last things we ever saw him wear, but in the series, that is the outfit of a judge from a 22nd century facist dictatorship that preceded the Federation. He wore it in the series because he was making a point about humanity's barbarism. > > By -far-, the most common outfits he wore during all of his appearances were era-appropriate starfleet uniforms. It's kinda weird that he shows up several times a year to literally play games with us while wearing the costume of a mass-murdering regime. It's like a mall Santa showing up for Christmas in SS regalia. > > (Note: Yes, I know that in Voyager, they threw several members of the continuum in that outfit, this is part of why Voyager was terrible.) > > Also, when are we getting John DeLancie to come in and lend his likeness and voice to the character?
Thank you for that. That last sentence is the first thing in this entire thread that actually is trying to take into account the personality of the character. I would argue that the uniform of a genocidal regime is a terrible costume for a jester, but at least it has something to do with the character.
Why? If something states that you have no respect for anything, that you take nothing serious, it's taking the uniforms of a terrible regime and making fun of it.
The traditional depiction of court jesters is more a sign that you don't take fashion seriously. This one is that you don't take anything seriously, least of it the human history.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
The point of the costume is, that it is the only costume that is Q Specific. Every other costume he ever wore was relatable to something else, from standard starfleet uniforms to actual historic uniforms.
The judge costume is technically a historic one from an in universe perspectiv but for the benefit of the viewer/player it is the only one that is only associated with Q.
that said, the costume is lazy. With the exception of the hat I believe it is merely a variation of a standard off duty robe and doesn't resemble the actual robe much.
The hat and the colors sell it as Q's judge robe.
To recognize someone is to look at them and be aware of who they are when you see them.
Exactly. You know who it is by sight. Not reading their nametag.
You see Q in that outfit on that throne and you know it's Q right away, even with the nametags turned off. If it was some dude in a starfleet uniform standing there you'd have to read the nametag to know who it is.
With nametags, they could plausibly put pretty much any creature or object there and say that's Q transformed into whatever. Because of course people know it's Q when there's a sign over his head that says so.
Comments
Eh, I think that's a bit silly and unnecessary, though. I mean, Honestly, do you think the fan base wouldn't recognize Q if he didn't have the Judge outfit on? He'd be turning people into spiders, floating in the air, and have the name "Q" floating in text above his freaking head. This "It's recognizable and iconic" thing feels like a solution to a problem that isn't there to begin with.
Actually, if they really wanted to make him seem like Q, Rather than appear in the middle of ESD, he should be hanging out in Quinn's office with his feet on the desk, while Quinn looks on in annoyance from the side. Or at least sitting on the desk, if moving other NPCs around is too much of a chore.
(Edit: Oh, better idea: Put him in the captain chair of our own starships! Then we don't have to truck back to ESD (or use the FE hailing function) to turn in our missions. Ah, I can dream.)
Man, this whole discussion is making me wish for a proper Q featured episode.
what I think is silly and unnecessary is players worrying over the outfit that one characters wears for a couple of events throughout the year when there are much more pressing concerns in the game that really need the devs attention.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
Sorry, I forgot that the devs instantly throw away whatever issues the game is facing to fully tailor the game to whatever frivolous issue happens to come up at the top of the general discussion forum. Clearly they are even now abandoning all plans for bug fixes and new episode content to prioritize Q's wardrobe. Quick, someone start a thread about how PVP is dead so we can get them back on track!
But seriously, STO is not just a random space MMO. It's an attempt to make players feel like they're immersed in the Star Trek universe, and to give them their own hopefully authentic star trek experience. Having characters dress and behave in authentic ways adds to the quality of the experience. Harry sounds like Harry. Spock looks like Spock. Tuvok acts like Tuvok. Seven has her little forehead borg thingie. I don't see how "I think Q is dressed out of character and here's why" is any less meaningful a critique than "The Galaxy-X doesn't quite look like it did in the show", or any other number of little errors.
In an episode of Star Trek, TNG, Picard once wore tight little swim trunks. He wore them because he was on vacation, on risa. There was a clear reason for it, it made sense, but if he showed up in game tomorrow and was always wearing that, everybody would rightly be a bit annoyed. Imagine if Worf was constantly dressed as little John, from the Robin Hood episode. Or if Data showed up and just wore his Sherlock Holmes costume all the time for no apparent reason.
Yes, this is a pretty minor issue. It would also be a pretty minimal effort to correct it, if they decided to. And it's honestly pretty secondary to several far larger issues that I have with the writing in this game, and it doesn't really bother me that much. Can you explain to me why -any- of that is a valid reason to suspend all discussion of it?
Yep
We come in peace, SHOOT TO KILL!
But it's not out of character - if anything represents the Q's capriciousness and arrogance, then it's this piece of clothing.
Also, Tuvok, Leeta, Rom, Seven of Nine, Neelix and Kim are also very different from Q in two important regards:
- Cryptic actually has likeness rights here, and did try to get as close as possible to the actor's real faces.
- Cryptic has these people actually doing voice overs for their characters.
They have none of that. A visual shorthand - Q in his judge uniform is quite understandable and quite helpful, even to people that are not that familiar with Star Trek - if you remember that one character, you are almost guaranteed to know this special outfit. No one (significant) else dresses like that. Captain and Admiral uniforms were worn by dozens or hundreds of guest stars over the years. And the justification for him wearing a TNG uniform are exactly as bad as the justification for wearing the Judge costume - It would be anachronistic. The up to date 25th century uniform looks different. Why would Q wear an uniform from a time the most player characters would only know from the history books?
In the context of Q appearing in-game, were he to appear in appropriate faction uniform on ESD, First City or New Romulus Command he could simply just be another NPC standing and admiring the view or getting underfoot (Ok, I realise we would know it was Q but lets suspend reality for a moment), so Q being Q has to have the dramatic "Hey look at me I'm different!!!" appearance.
Let's be honest Q (plural) have always been Diva's or different in some way, so much so that the single Q who tried to avoid the stereotypical diva behaviour stood out just as much by simply appearing normal.
but the whole point is Q is not dressed out of character, he is dressed in an outfit that he is best known for, even if a random actor showed up in one of those fan made episodes you see on youtube wearing that outfit people watching it would instantly know he was playing a Q from the Q continuum, more so then they would if he was wearing any other outfit especially that of a star fleet officer.
this is why I think that its silly and unnecessary players worrying over the outfit when it is so clearly the best outfit the devs could dress him in whether they could use his likeness or not.
like I said there are a lot of things much more pressing in the game that the devs should be dealing with and perhaps we should be focusing our discussion on these rather then worrying over the outfit Q is wearing when it is so clearly the right outfit anyway.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
True, and honestly, If I was in charge of development for this game, I probably wouldn't worry about updating Q's appearance at all until some kind of substantial change was going to happen, like securing DeLancie's likeness and/or voice, or just doing an overhaul of the character, complete with a new actor and voice, possibly as part of a featured Episode. All I'm really trying to do with this thread (aside from discuss the character for the hell of it) is put the idea out there that maybe they should ditch the judge costume if they ever do that.
I'm not saying he should wear a TNG uniform. I'm saying he should be dressed in an era-appropriate uniform. When he was on TNG, he wore a TNG uniform. On DS9, he wore a DS9 uniform. On Voyager, he wore a Voyager-style/movie-era uniform. Q wears the starfleet uniform to tweak the nose of the uptight captains he interacts with. In general, his appearance is -always- a deliberate statement. He wears the judge uniform to make a statement about humanity's failings in the show. He doesn't wear it "just because" except in the case of the Q trio in Voyager, and that was just lazy costume design.
Again, he flies, turns people into animals with a flash of light, is surrounding by dancing monsters, and has the letter Q in floating text above his freaking head. His costume is not a necessary part of informing the players who he is.
If Q was hanging out in ESD in an odyssey captain's uniform, nobody familiar with the show would be confused, and everybody unfamiliar with the show would need an explanation -anyway-.
I also disagree with you that people unfamiliar with the show would recognize Q's outfit, unless it happened that the only episode they watched was the first or last one. Hell, tru-fans are way more likely to recognize the judge robes than casual viewers: Most people unfamiliar with the show, if they knew Q from a random episode they flipped to when nothing else was on, would more likely know him as that curly headed guy who dresses like Picard and pisses him off with his magic.
(Actually, they'd know him as "Q", because he's probably the most memorable freaking character on the show, but that's still more likely to be the description. ;p )
But WHY is he best known for it? He hardly ever wore it, and when he did, it was for an explicit purpose. Did it imprint on you like a baby bird? Was it the first thing you ever saw? I don't get the attachment to the costume, and from an in-fiction perspective, it doesn't make any sense for him to wear it all the time.
Then those people have never actually paid any attention to the show and are TRIBBLE writers. This is probably why fanfilms are often terrible.
Except apparently it isn't "so clearly" because we're arguing about it.
Reading the floating tag over his head that says "Q" doesn't count as recognizing the character.
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
I do not understand how that works in your brain.
I don't mean that in a judgy or mean way. I just don't get your line of thinking.
To recognize someone is to look at them and be aware of who they are when you see them. You recognize someone based on past experience with their appearance. You know, we didn't always have Michael Dorn's likeness rights, but that doesn't mean the devs had to stick Worf in his old next gen outfit for people to recognize him. They saw an old klingon named Worf and went "Oh, that's who that's supposed to be". It was never a hurdle for me. McCoy and Scotty also don't particularly resemble the actors that played them, but it doesn't confuse me at all when they show up in the Dividian arc. These characters were all just dressed consistently with the people around them, but we recognize them by their names and actions.
Q wore a Starfleet uniform in every single appearance he ever made on any Star Trek program. Every one. It's often not the only thing he wore, but he always wore one. The other Q also tended to show up in normal clothes (for the era), until Voyager came along and turned them into civil war reenactors. A google image search of "Q Star Trek" shows Starfleet uniforms all over the place.
If this character is supposed to be Q Jr, then the Starfleet uniform is actually the only thing we ever saw him wear.
The key word here is ICONIC...
Any Trek fan who's aware of the original character of "Q", will tell you it's the guy that wore the Red & Black Judges Outfit from The Next Generation TV show.
If any more of an explanation is required, then one is just splitting hairs to be annoying.
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
That's not how I would describe him at all. I don't get why anybody would describe him that way. He almost never appears like that in the show. Hell, the only way that description makes sense to me is if somebody is NOT a Trek fan, who only watched the first episode of TNG and then lost interest.
Edit: But honestly, how iconic the costume is isn't the point. Princess Leia's hair buns are iconic as all hell, but she never wore her hair like that after the first film in that series, and it wouldn't have made too much sense if she showed up in the new movie looking like that. Just because something is iconic doesn't mean it makes sense for every appearance the character makes. And it seems downright insulting to me to suggest that people "wouldn't know" who he was if he didn't wear the iconic outfit.
You left out two very important things...
The word ICONIC and the fact that he wore the EXACT SAME OUTFIT in the Final Episode of TNG harking back to the Very First Episode.
As I said, "Splitting Hairs" is extremely annoying.
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Yeah? That's my point, though. The outfit he wore once (or twice, in this case) vs. the way he was dressed every single time he showed up.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
How am I splitting hairs? I fundamentally disagree with your entire line of reasoning. Yes, he wore the outfit twice. In both instances where he wore the outfit, he was deliberately sitting in judgement over humanity's past barbarism. He wore the outfit twice for a reason that was in keeping with his character. That isn't the case in STO. And yeah, I'll acknowledge that the outfit is iconic. Lots of things are iconic to a particular character. it doesn't mean it makes sense to use them every time that character appears.
Now yer jest being...
Ah what the Hell...,
I don't really give a krap anymore...
You go with that, if it makes ya all warm and fuzzy inside.
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
I guess you don't understand what "iconic" means here. It's not important that he wears the outfit a lot - it's important that he wears the outfit when he's introduced and that it stands for something he's about - he's always judging humanity, constantly questioning humanity's convictions and morals. In his Starfleet uniform, he doesn't stand out. He's in incognito, basically, pretending to blend in.
Of course, this is suggested to not be Q, but actually Q Junior. Q Junior doesn't seem to be the judge in STO. He's the jester - and he likes to get into costume.
I'd actually argue that his Starfleet uniform was more about deliberately acting the foil to Picard and the others: taking something that is important and valuable to the people he's "playing" with and showing them that it's meaningless to him.
Thank you for that. That last sentence is the first thing in this entire thread that actually is trying to take into account the personality of the character. I would argue that the uniform of a genocidal regime is a terrible costume for a jester, but at least it has something to do with the character.
it is to distinguish the Q character from another generic looking NPC, and Joh de Lancie wants nothing to do with STO, and the price tag for his appearance would be staggering.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Good.
Very good.
Absolutely the best.
I see no problem here. Please put them in game. Ty.
> This has been bugging me for awhile.
>
> Seriously, I get that it's one of the first and last things we ever saw him wear, but in the series, that is the outfit of a judge from a 22nd century facist dictatorship that preceded the Federation. He wore it in the series because he was making a point about humanity's barbarism.
>
> By -far-, the most common outfits he wore during all of his appearances were era-appropriate starfleet uniforms. It's kinda weird that he shows up several times a year to literally play games with us while wearing the costume of a mass-murdering regime. It's like a mall Santa showing up for Christmas in SS regalia.
>
> (Note: Yes, I know that in Voyager, they threw several members of the continuum in that outfit, this is part of why Voyager was terrible.)
>
> Also, when are we getting John DeLancie to come in and lend his likeness and voice to the character?
C'mon man, Voyager wasn't that bad.
The traditional depiction of court jesters is more a sign that you don't take fashion seriously. This one is that you don't take anything seriously, least of it the human history.
The judge costume is technically a historic one from an in universe perspectiv but for the benefit of the viewer/player it is the only one that is only associated with Q.
that said, the costume is lazy. With the exception of the hat I believe it is merely a variation of a standard off duty robe and doesn't resemble the actual robe much.
The hat and the colors sell it as Q's judge robe.
Exactly. You know who it is by sight. Not reading their nametag.
You see Q in that outfit on that throne and you know it's Q right away, even with the nametags turned off. If it was some dude in a starfleet uniform standing there you'd have to read the nametag to know who it is.
With nametags, they could plausibly put pretty much any creature or object there and say that's Q transformed into whatever. Because of course people know it's Q when there's a sign over his head that says so.