I completely agree. Shrinking the Scimitars with about 20% to 30% would make them canon and more agreable to all the scimitar and non-scimitar players out there.
All i took away from this image is that the Defiant is 45 meters over length. But then thats a hotly contested number since on screen refernces have the defaints as small as 80m and as large as 180m, 120m was the most common though if I recall, so its the length that sticks in my mind.
I never said Cryptic got it right, I said all of the pictures/ship size charts/etc that are shown here are non-canon material. No matter where they come from, because as has always been the rule, only whats on screen is canon.
Well there's a slight problem with that, because on screen, things have quite often changed size. Unless we are to now speculate that ships are designed to expand and shrink depending on what they're doing and who they're fighting.
What we see on screen is only as good as it allows. We know what ship types we've seen, and roughly how big one is to the next, but we can't ever be certain. The B'rel (and K'vort), the Deridex, the Defiant, and multiple Excelsiors have all been viewed differently.
I don't think it would hurt to shrink the Scimitar a little; same with the Deridex and Ha'nom (and sisters), but it's not essential.
I ask in all seriousness why does it matter that the scimitar is to big or to small? Does it disrupt one's immersion in the game? Does it disrupt your game play? Does it really?
I just think people are making mountains over mole hills, but that applies to most of the threads on these forums.
Only canon size reference for the Scimi is ST: Nemesis, dunno what those pics are, but they aint canon.
head/desk
There are so many ppl in this game who have no idea what canon really is or means.
The big white schematic up top. Can you see the Paramount Logo? Can you see the ST:Nemesis Logo? Can you see the signature of John Eaves on the print? Do you know what Paramount is? Do you know who John Eaves is?
For some reason I can only see the original post and none of the comments. I was curious to see some people weigh in on this. A lot of these scales seem way off. A D'Deridex isn't that big for starters.
I ask in all seriousness why does it matter that the scimitar is to big or to small? Does it disrupt one's immersion in the game? Does it disrupt your game play? Does it really?
I just think people are making mountains over mole hills, but that applies to most of the threads on these forums.
with the old sector space maps split into blocks you would be out of luck for support.. in general on any map with combat the large ships have a invisible bubble around them to avoid collisions between player ships.
now to head into the absurd, if players got a hold of the voth city ships or borg cubes, tactical cubes, hell even tactical fusion cubes, you would be chowing down those words pretty quickly. just be so lucky in sector space your ships are small now, but still in a fight the bigger the ship the harder it is to get around that.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
I ask in all seriousness why does it matter that the scimitar is to big or to small? Does it disrupt one's immersion in the game? Does it disrupt your game play? Does it really?
I just think people are making mountains over mole hills, but that applies to most of the threads on these forums.
with the old sector space maps split into blocks you would be out of luck for support.. in general on any map with combat the large ships have a invisible bubble around them to avoid collisions between player ships.
now to head into the absurd, if players got a hold of the voth city ships or borg cubes, tactical cubes, hell even tactical fusion cubes, you would be chowing down those words pretty quickly. just be so lucky in sector space your ships are small now, but still in a fight the bigger the ship the harder it is to get around that.
OOH! Unimatrixes! Or maybe the Fortress ship? It's so big that it's programmed into the game as a part of the map, and not as an NPC. This is the same ship that uses Citadel dreads as hangar pets.
John Eaves only did a few designs. you should look more closely at the list of things that is confirmed he created as far as starship designs are concerned. also there are others who added their starship designs on the screen as well like Rick Sternbach. he also did a few and collaborated on ds9 with Herman Zimmerman.
so John Eaves being the only one that is canon is laughable when he is a slice of the overall pizza as far as canon goes.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
For some reason I can only see the original post and none of the comments. I was curious to see some people weigh in on this. A lot of these scales seem way off. A D'Deridex isn't that big for starters.
Nah man it's undersized. Do you know how frustrating it is to fly in and not be in the biggest ship in the game? That was literally the only thing that made it worth flying. It needs some serious buffs if it's not a size status symbol anymore. The scimitar is underpowered and undersized. Basically a worthless ship right about now.
Seriously "underpowered" ? Sorry the highest DPS ship in the game and you claim it's underpowered.
Boom..Its either a Scimitar or the Krenim ship...DPS monstar..
Distinctly not sarcastic. Especially not when I referenced my signature as proof that it's UP. Clearly the only point of the Scimitar is to be the biggest ship. It was never worth it for its damage potential, just the sick, sick visuals. And that Thaleron Pulse. Man, what an ability. I mean, what am I to do with a scimitar if it's not "have the biggest ship in the game?"
SCM - Crystal C. (S) - [00:12] DMG(DPS) - @jarvisandalfred: 8.63M(713.16K) - Fed Sci
John Eaves only did a few designs. you should look more closely at the list of things that is confirmed he created as far as starship designs are concerned. also there are others who added their starship designs on the screen as well like Rick Sternbach. he also did a few and collaborated on ds9 with Herman Zimmerman.
so John Eaves being the only one that is canon is laughable when he is a slice of the overall pizza as far as canon goes.
Throw in Matt Jefferies, Doug Drexler, Mike Okuda, Andy Probert in there as well.
There are so many ppl in this game who have no idea what canon really is or means.
The big white schematic up top. Can you see the Paramount Logo? Can you see the ST:Nemesis Logo? Can you see the signature of John Eaves on the print? Do you know what Paramount is? Do you know who John Eaves is?
Unfortunately you are wrong. "Canon" is according to CBS own definition only what appears in the shows and movies. Everything else is not canon. It can be reference, it can be basis for debate, but it can never be canon no matter wether it's Eaves' design, no matter wether the CBS logo is on it or Rodenberry coming from space and saying it - it can never be canon.
The "only on-screen is canon" line disappeared when they overhauled the website, but it is the last known definite definition. Assuming abscence of that line suddenly means everything is canon holds no basis. As long as we have another official word we have to assume the last definition still is true.
As I said, it is perfectly fine to point out "Eaves' design sketch says X" or "Michael Okuda once commented Y and I like that". But arguing canon has to limit everything to on-screen appearances. And yes, the IP owner can define canon as they pleases, fan opinion has absolutely nothing to do with it. See what happened with Star Wars.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
To put my .02 in...I often wondered why the STO Scimitar is visually different from the ship in Nemesis. The hull and nacelles, not so much. But I can definitely see visual differences in the wings. So why the difference? This have something to do with the whole CBS having their panties in a bunch?
Nah man it's undersized. Do you know how frustrating it is to fly in and not be in the biggest ship in the game? That was literally the only thing that made it worth flying. It needs some serious buffs if it's not a size status symbol anymore. The scimitar is underpowered and undersized. Basically a worthless ship right about now.
Seriously "underpowered" ? Sorry the highest DPS ship in the game and you claim it's underpowered.
Boom..Its either a Scimitar or the Krenim ship...DPS monstar..
I beg to differ if we are talking stock with no consols.It is your skills that make the ship what it is as you are the ship.Think of Andromeda Ascendant as Rommie is the ships avatar much like us.This would make every ship balanced no consols.Starfleet Command 1 and 2 is the most balanced space game around.That chart is not accurate as the Miranda should be bigger as it is Destroyer in TNG not frigate that is the Sabre and Norway class.
Wow. That's the best cognition you all could come up with? I can see I'm dealing with pedestrians here. Please be careful crossing the street.
One has to choose ONE definition of canon. STO (and CBS) chose on screen appearances. Live with it.
0
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,664Community Moderator
In First Contact, Picard stated that the Enterprise-E was approx. 700 meters long. The OFFICIAL length is 685 meters, which makes the approx. 700 meters relatively accurate.
If I remember correctly, the Scimitar was said to be 3x the size of the Enterprise. Now lengthwise, the Scimitar shouldn't be that much longer according to Memory Alpha.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
Wow. That's the best cognition you all could come up with? I can see I'm dealing with pedestrians here. Please be careful crossing the street.
One has to choose ONE definition of canon. STO (and CBS) chose on screen appearances. Live with it.
Exactly. That's the problem with fans just declaring whatever they like canon, it leads to the assumption that "Star Trek canon is all over the place" and people could never agree on anything. The truth however is that there is a baseline canon, defined by the IP holder. That does not mean you can't discuss other stuff and talk about it, you just have to keep in mind there's only one canon and yes this could change any day. If CBS suddenly said "Canon is was @thetanine (just an example) says" then yes, Star Trek canon is that from that moment on.
In First Contact, Picard stated that the Enterprise-E was approx. 700 meters long. The OFFICIAL length is 685 meters, which makes the approx. 700 meters relatively accurate.
If I remember correctly, the Scimitar was said to be 3x the size of the Enterprise. Now lengthwise, the Scimitar shouldn't be that much longer according to Memory Alpha.
She's only 890 meters long. However most of her size isn't in her length, its in her beam, wingtip to wingtip, which is 1,350 meters.
So technically if Taco's scale models are accurate to in game models, the Scimitar and her variants are actually oversized compared to Canon.
The scimitar may be wide, but it really isn't massive, the wings are just flat pieces. I find it funny that size comparisons in Star Trek are mostly made via ship length, completely disregarding internal volume. You cannot do anything with large wings, after all, in space.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
Yeah, Canon. Which means that Kirk & Company all died in 'Spock's Brain'. Sigma Draconis III, IV, and VI were the only habitable planets. They go down to VI. Beam back up and then Checkov notes in the Captain's Log that they beamed down to VII. Non-habitable, so they all died.
So be very careful about this Canon BS. You may end up like Norman and blow out your circuits trying to make sense of it all.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Hey troll, you can be happy, that a scimitar is in the game as playable ship. I don't like this abomination.
Your problem is, you still use the feet, instead of all other world use the meters.
According to a book, the scimitar is prototype ship (only one has made), jem'hadar dreadnought was stolen and reworked to ugly giant bat (reman style) with spikes, MDW carrier. Therefore i'm not glad, that this ship is flagship of the Romulan Republic fleet, f.e. Deihu or D'Khellra should be much more better.
5/3 weapon layout, cmdr. tac and lt.cmdr uni, imo the best hangar pet, and some players want T6 version... pls no.
@tmassx the rest of the world uses metres. Metres are devices for measuring things on. Metres are for measuring things in.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Comments
Yeah, I was going to ask about that.
What we see on screen is only as good as it allows. We know what ship types we've seen, and roughly how big one is to the next, but we can't ever be certain. The B'rel (and K'vort), the Deridex, the Defiant, and multiple Excelsiors have all been viewed differently.
I don't think it would hurt to shrink the Scimitar a little; same with the Deridex and Ha'nom (and sisters), but it's not essential.
I just think people are making mountains over mole hills, but that applies to most of the threads on these forums.
head/desk
There are so many ppl in this game who have no idea what canon really is or means.
The big white schematic up top. Can you see the Paramount Logo? Can you see the ST:Nemesis Logo? Can you see the signature of John Eaves on the print? Do you know what Paramount is? Do you know who John Eaves is?
https://www.google.com/search?q=John+Eaves+Star+Trek
http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/John_Eaves
John Eaves IS canon!
with the old sector space maps split into blocks you would be out of luck for support.. in general on any map with combat the large ships have a invisible bubble around them to avoid collisions between player ships.
now to head into the absurd, if players got a hold of the voth city ships or borg cubes, tactical cubes, hell even tactical fusion cubes, you would be chowing down those words pretty quickly. just be so lucky in sector space your ships are small now, but still in a fight the bigger the ship the harder it is to get around that.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
My character Tsin'xing
so John Eaves being the only one that is canon is laughable when he is a slice of the overall pizza as far as canon goes.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Yes it is. The size is about right.
Nearly twice the length overall of a Galaxy-class starship, this vessel used an artificial quantum singularity to power its warp-drive system.
http://www.startrek.com/database_article/romulan-warbird
Distinctly not sarcastic. Especially not when I referenced my signature as proof that it's UP. Clearly the only point of the Scimitar is to be the biggest ship. It was never worth it for its damage potential, just the sick, sick visuals. And that Thaleron Pulse. Man, what an ability. I mean, what am I to do with a scimitar if it's not "have the biggest ship in the game?"
SCM - Hive (S) - [02:31] DMG(DPS) - @jarvisandalfred: 30.62M(204.66K) - Fed Sci
Tacs are overrated.
Game's best wiki
Build questions? Look here!
Throw in Matt Jefferies, Doug Drexler, Mike Okuda, Andy Probert in there as well.
Unfortunately you are wrong. "Canon" is according to CBS own definition only what appears in the shows and movies. Everything else is not canon. It can be reference, it can be basis for debate, but it can never be canon no matter wether it's Eaves' design, no matter wether the CBS logo is on it or Rodenberry coming from space and saying it - it can never be canon.
The "only on-screen is canon" line disappeared when they overhauled the website, but it is the last known definite definition. Assuming abscence of that line suddenly means everything is canon holds no basis. As long as we have another official word we have to assume the last definition still is true.
As I said, it is perfectly fine to point out "Eaves' design sketch says X" or "Michael Okuda once commented Y and I like that". But arguing canon has to limit everything to on-screen appearances. And yes, the IP owner can define canon as they pleases, fan opinion has absolutely nothing to do with it. See what happened with Star Wars.
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F*** humanity.
I beg to differ if we are talking stock with no consols.It is your skills that make the ship what it is as you are the ship.Think of Andromeda Ascendant as Rommie is the ships avatar much like us.This would make every ship balanced no consols.Starfleet Command 1 and 2 is the most balanced space game around.That chart is not accurate as the Miranda should be bigger as it is Destroyer in TNG not frigate that is the Sabre and Norway class.
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/d6/42/b2/d642b2114f129191de198e4c71de31ef.jpg
Here is better one
http://i958.photobucket.com/albums/ae65/FLEETYARD/STAR TREK SIZE CHART/24Jh_Movie_Star_Trek_Size_Chart.png
PS This ship just needs an interior
USS WARRIOR NCC 1720 Commanding Officer
Star Trek Gamers
One has to choose ONE definition of canon. STO (and CBS) chose on screen appearances. Live with it.
http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Sovereign_class
If I remember correctly, the Scimitar was said to be 3x the size of the Enterprise. Now lengthwise, the Scimitar shouldn't be that much longer according to Memory Alpha.
http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Scimitar
She's only 890 meters long. However most of her size isn't in her length, its in her beam, wingtip to wingtip, which is 1,350 meters.
So technically if Taco's scale models are accurate to in game models, the Scimitar and her variants are actually oversized compared to Canon.
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
Exactly. That's the problem with fans just declaring whatever they like canon, it leads to the assumption that "Star Trek canon is all over the place" and people could never agree on anything. The truth however is that there is a baseline canon, defined by the IP holder. That does not mean you can't discuss other stuff and talk about it, you just have to keep in mind there's only one canon and yes this could change any day. If CBS suddenly said "Canon is was @thetanine (just an example) says" then yes, Star Trek canon is that from that moment on.
The scimitar may be wide, but it really isn't massive, the wings are just flat pieces. I find it funny that size comparisons in Star Trek are mostly made via ship length, completely disregarding internal volume. You cannot do anything with large wings, after all, in space.
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normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
So be very careful about this Canon BS. You may end up like Norman and blow out your circuits trying to make sense of it all.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Hey troll, you can be happy, that a scimitar is in the game as playable ship. I don't like this abomination.
Your problem is, you still use the feet, instead of all other world use the meters.
According to a book, the scimitar is prototype ship (only one has made), jem'hadar dreadnought was stolen and reworked to ugly giant bat (reman style) with spikes, MDW carrier. Therefore i'm not glad, that this ship is flagship of the Romulan Republic fleet, f.e. Deihu or D'Khellra should be much more better.
5/3 weapon layout, cmdr. tac and lt.cmdr uni, imo the best hangar pet, and some players want T6 version... pls no.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!