I disagree, by the way, with lowering the cannon damage drop off. It's part of the unique style of cannons that you need to get close to bring the optimum firepower.
If we're to buff cannons, buff their effectiveness at close range. Say, from 5-1 km distance you get another +1 to +5 % crit probability and +5 to +15 Crit Severity. Maybe add a trait or DOFF that adds bonus power or reduced weapon drain when using cannons or cannon buffs and hitting a target at 3km distance or less. Give Cannons extra effectiveness when flanking.
Balanced shouldn't have to mean that everything works the same. It should encourage different play styles that are both equally effective. (A similar principle as is behind roles like DPS/Tanking/Healing roles in other MMOs, except that beams, cannons or torpedoes can all be build for DPS, but each style feels differently.)
One of the problems with cannons is that you have to get close to the target to get the payoff for using cannons which can be difficult to do when the BFAW Scimitar parked 6k out annihilates all targets before you can close the cannons-are-wet-noodles gap.
Then there's the travel time of cannon damage compared to the instant beam damage.
Torpedo travel time is a whole other can of BFAW.
This is my Risian Corvette. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
Dangit guys... you're making me think of digging my old yugi card template out and making a 'FawCat' card...
Here you go
I reveal my trap card. Beam reflect. because you are using a card effect, Beam reflect not only blocks your attack but the damage you tried to deal to me gets reflected back to you.
Dangit guys... you're making me think of digging my old yugi card template out and making a 'FawCat' card...
Here you go
I reveal my trap card. Beam reflect. because you are using a card effect, Beam reflect not only blocks your attack but the damage you tried to deal to me gets reflected back to you.
You can't play trap cards on BFAW! It's the be-all end-all that renders all other abilities pointless, including traps!
I disagree, by the way, with lowering the cannon damage drop off. It's part of the unique style of cannons that you need to get close to bring the optimum firepower.
If we're to buff cannons, buff their effectiveness at close range. Say, from 5-1 km distance you get another +1 to +5 % crit probability and +5 to +15 Crit Severity. Maybe add a trait or DOFF that adds bonus power or reduced weapon drain when using cannons or cannon buffs and hitting a target at 3km distance or less. Give Cannons extra effectiveness when flanking.
Balanced shouldn't have to mean that everything works the same. It should encourage different play styles that are both equally effective. (A similar principle as is behind roles like DPS/Tanking/Healing roles in other MMOs, except that beams, cannons or torpedoes can all be build for DPS, but each style feels differently.)
One of the problems with cannons is that you have to get close to the target to get the payoff for using cannons which can be difficult to do when the BFAW Scimitar parked 6k out annihilates all targets before you can close the cannons-are-wet-noodles gap.
To me that mostly means that the payoff for using cannons is not there (at least to many people), it doesn't mean that you need to change the range drop-off - you need to ensure that at the range and the style cannons are used for, they are worth using.
That said... I think that is primarily somethnig to do for Dual Cannons and Dual Heavy Cannons. Regular Cannons and Turrets it might be better to look for a change to the range drop-off. Due to their high firing arc, it's not really meaningful to bring them into a close range play style. You could do it, but the whole maneuvering aspect only really becomes interesting and fun when you also need to be at close range.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Dangit guys... you're making me think of digging my old yugi card template out and making a 'FawCat' card...
Here you go
I reveal my trap card. Beam reflect. because you are using a card effect, Beam reflect not only blocks your attack but the damage you tried to deal to me gets reflected back to you.
You can't play trap cards on BFAW! It's the be-all end-all that renders all other abilities pointless, including traps!
Oh yes I can because of it's other ability, negate effect. There's a reason the King of games taught me
The effectiveness of cannons isn't an issue of how devastating they can be, becuse they are still lethal up close. The issue is that beam attacks hit instantly meaning even if they do less damage they have a huge range advantage and time advantage over cannons. An all beam build and an all cannon build could have the same damage output but the beam one is at an advantage because it hits instantly and it has it easier with arcs.
You've gotta find a way to even that out before you look at damage.
whats a cannon ? O.o if its something with less effects and lower aoe , and i can still see my ship and the targets when i spam it, I'm not interested.
LOL This post is funny because people seem to think that spec'ing a ship for AoE damage renders their particular builds useless. All I see is a bunch of people whining about how their single target dps is paltry when compared to a ship that is designed to do as much damage to as many targets as possible.
You know what makes my ship so awesome? My BOFFS can switch between AoE and Single Target depending on what I'm fighting. Crystalline? AoE. IC? AoE. Khitomer? AoE. Then switch my FAW and TS to Overload and HY.
Moral of the story: stop complaining that your pathetic single target dps is overshadowed by real staying power.
LOL This post is funny because people seem to think that spec'ing a ship for AoE damage renders their particular builds useless. All I see is a bunch of people whining about how their single target dps is paltry when compared to a ship that is designed to do as much damage to as many targets as possible.
You know what makes my ship so awesome? My BOFFS can switch between AoE and Single Target depending on what I'm fighting. Crystalline? AoE. IC? AoE. Khitomer? AoE. Then switch my FAW and TS to Overload and HY.
Moral of the story: stop complaining that your pathetic single target dps is overshadowed by real staying power.
next thing you know, these pissbabies will be wanting beams removed from the game altogether XD
The effectiveness of cannons isn't an issue of how devastating they can be, becuse they are still lethal up close.
The issue is that beam attacks hit instantly meaning even if they do less damage they have a huge range advantage and time advantage over cannons.
An all beam build and an all cannon build could have the same damage output but the beam one is at an advantage because it hits instantly and it has it easier with arcs.
You've gotta find a way to even that out before you look at damage.
And again, the point is that the gameplay of (dual, dual heavy) cannons is that you need to get close and work at keeping your target in range. So beams either need a disadvantage that makes using them harder (which might be preferable), or they should deal less damage. But giving the cannons better range drop-off or better firing arcs removes the gameplay aspect that makes cannon play different from beams. Make it more rewarding to optimize your piloting with cannons. Lowering the range drop-off doesn't make it more rewarding, just more forgiving.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Some epic posts in this thread. Thank you for the laughs.
I used to use BO only. Converted to FAW to keep up with seemingly everyone else. I really would like to go back to BO. Can only do it with pre-made teams with friends. I can get decent DPS with a BO build. That is if I actually get shoot at more than a debris cloud.
I guess all I really want is balance.
Then again, what I really really want is use Marion again. Paid a hell of a lot for him.
STO: Where men are men and the women probably are too.
I support the Star Trek Battles channel.
Dangit guys... you're making me think of digging my old yugi card template out and making a 'FawCat' card...
Here you go
I reveal my trap card. Beam reflect. because you are using a card effect, Beam reflect not only blocks your attack but the damage you tried to deal to me gets reflected back to you.
You can't play trap cards on BFAW! It's the be-all end-all that renders all other abilities pointless, including traps!
Oh yes I can because of it's other ability, negate effect. There's a reason the King of games taught me
I so need to make one of a Voth reflection shield. Peeps HATED that when the Voth first showed up.
After years of BFAW being broken (not critting, accuracy overflow not affecting it, etc.) it's finally made it's way to "basically working as intended" and instead of whining for other weapons/abilities to be comparatively normalized, you guys want to mow down BFAW to broken status again (or worse, as from reading some of these posts).
Because, logic?
Yeah, make sure you don't ask for fixes to actual issues, such as cannons lacking an equal amount of good traits as beams, fixing the range drop-off, lowering the BOFF rank requirements, increasing its 'projectile' speed, etc. Or how about simply adding in more decent Tactical BOFF abilities that aren't tied to a stupid lockbox (and sell for 150m+).
"JUST NERF BFAW CUZ DAT'S WUT ALL DA BIG BOIS ARE USIN' SO IT MUS BE O.P. STATUS!"
No. It's overused because there are very few other options that are viable. The ability itself is fine; it's when you add a ton of beam and other damage enhancing traits, consoles, and doodads that it surpasses other ability/weapon combos. That does not mean the ability itself is "OP" or "broken" or whatever other buzzword you can think of at the time of posting. It means that other weapons (such as cannons) haven't received as much attention/love as beams. It doesn't even have anything to do with BFAW. If the AoE aspect of BFAW was the issue, why are you guys crying about it 7 years later? Sorry, that doesn't make sense. Back in Escorts Online, you got laughed at for using beams at all (outside of a few niche builds). The 360 AoE aspect didn't mean jack because cannon DPS was still MUCH higher, partly due to BFAW actually being broken at the time, and also before all of these new DPS traits, most of which are for beams and not cannons.
And I am sorry but, lol @ people even asking for it to not be AoE at all. You understand that other people use this ability besides buffing up their beams for max AoE damage right? Turning FaW into a single-target ability basically destroys anyone who has set themselves up as an aggro tank (and yes, people DO still play other roles besides Tactical), or a "proc monster," etc.
Get your heads out of your collective a**es and ask for things that are not performing as they should to be buffed, instead of crying and whining for nerfs when an ability after literally years of being broken and ignored is finally WAI.
This thread should be closed, it's pure sarcasm and bs anyways, and belongs in Ten-Forward, if allowed to exist at all.
That said, if you really think that BFaW is the end-all ability and no-skill casuals are instantly turned into a space-god because they use it, you should honestly spend less time complaining on the forums about everything and play the game more, and perhaps think about moving up from normal queues to elite/advanced.
Except that it's not broken.
A 19th century British battleship could unleash an awesome broadside against a single target.
A 25th century battleship should be able to do at least that as well as aiming its guns independently and hitting multiple targets.
The argument against BFAW fails because it makes no sense.
the Star Trek universe was built on massive ships trading beam and torpedo salvos and not on little ships spitting lasers at death stars or spawning black holes.
LOL This post is funny because people seem to think that spec'ing a ship for AoE damage renders their particular builds useless. All I see is a bunch of people whining about how their single target dps is paltry when compared to a ship that is designed to do as much damage to as many targets as possible.
You know what makes my ship so awesome? My BOFFS can switch between AoE and Single Target depending on what I'm fighting. Crystalline? AoE. IC? AoE. Khitomer? AoE. Then switch my FAW and TS to Overload and HY.
Moral of the story: stop complaining that your pathetic single target dps is overshadowed by real staying power.
Hold up.... people AoE on CCA? Talk about waste and over-inflation of numbers..... kill the Entity quickly and the rest be damned.
LOL This post is funny because people seem to think that spec'ing a ship for AoE damage renders their particular builds useless. All I see is a bunch of people whining about how their single target dps is paltry when compared to a ship that is designed to do as much damage to as many targets as possible.
You know what makes my ship so awesome? My BOFFS can switch between AoE and Single Target depending on what I'm fighting. Crystalline? AoE. IC? AoE. Khitomer? AoE. Then switch my FAW and TS to Overload and HY.
Moral of the story: stop complaining that your pathetic single target dps is overshadowed by real staying power.
Hold up.... people AoE on CCA? Talk about waste and over-inflation of numbers..... kill the Entity quickly and the rest be damned.
You aoe to kill the shards. Simple stuff. Or to KLW+Neutronic - oh, wait, nevermind, they fixed that broken garbage.
SCM - Crystal C. (S) - [00:12] DMG(DPS) - @jarvisandalfred: 8.63M(713.16K) - Fed Sci
Except that it's not broken.
A 19th century British battleship could unleash an awesome broadside against a single target.
A 25th century battleship should be able to do at least that as well as aiming its guns independently and hitting multiple targets.
The argument against BFAW fails because it makes no sense.
the Star Trek universe was built on massive ships trading beam and torpedo salvos and not on little ships spitting lasers at death stars or spawning black holes.
LET THERE BE TREK !!!!
There is no "sense" behind game abilities.
If my officers know how to fire 5 beams instead of 4 per beam cycle, why don't they do it all the time? Why can they do it more often when enemies miss me?
Why can they focus all those beams on one target when there is only one, but spread their shots across multiple targets when there are more?
Or rather, there is sense - the sense is found in that it's a game ability ,and it follows design guidelines for the ability. And one of those guidelines is usually concerned with balance.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
LOL This post is funny because people seem to think that spec'ing a ship for AoE damage renders their particular builds useless. All I see is a bunch of people whining about how their single target dps is paltry when compared to a ship that is designed to do as much damage to as many targets as possible.
You know what makes my ship so awesome? My BOFFS can switch between AoE and Single Target depending on what I'm fighting. Crystalline? AoE. IC? AoE. Khitomer? AoE. Then switch my FAW and TS to Overload and HY.
Moral of the story: stop complaining that your pathetic single target dps is overshadowed by real staying power.
Hold up.... people AoE on CCA? Talk about waste and over-inflation of numbers..... kill the Entity quickly and the rest be damned.
You aoe to kill the shards. Simple stuff. Or to KLW+Neutronic - oh, wait, nevermind, they fixed that broken garbage.
Lol! ILU man!
But seriously, why did I get only 2 procs of KLW from my torpedo spam on the entity?
"JUST NERF BFAW CUZ DAT'S WUT ALL DA BIG BOIS ARE USIN' SO IT MUS BE O.P. STATUS!"
No. It's overused because there are very few other options that are viable. The ability itself is fine;
Check your facts. It double procs
Pffft...facts. You want people who want to keep their OBVIOUSLY broken ability to be bothered by something as trivial as facts? Your funny.
If you look at the current issues with FAW:
Kemocite crits at half the intended rate
Kemocite procs don't scale with any damage boosts
Kemocite procs at twice the intended rate
FAW drains extra weapon power
FAW doesn't apply accuracy overflow
FAW innately, for everyone, has bugs that decrease it's damage. FAW does not have an innate bug that increases it's damage for everyone; a different ability is buggy during FAW, but overall in such a way that it does significantly less than it would normally. Bug train's not gonna fly, folks.
SCM - Crystal C. (S) - [00:12] DMG(DPS) - @jarvisandalfred: 8.63M(713.16K) - Fed Sci
There is no "sense" behind game abilities.
If my officers know how to fire 5 beams instead of 4 per beam cycle, why don't they do it all the time?
Classic TNG inspired Trek logic.
Ensign Random Guy at Console "Captain! It seems if I mash the 'Fire' button really fast, I can syphon residual energy from my gravimetrically-aligned TRIBBLE to produce an additional beam of energy! Unfortunately, I have to sit down for a few seconds to allow my chroniton-deficient colon time to rest between extra shots"
Captain Dude "Well done, Ensign Random Guy at Console! Make it so!"
"JUST NERF BFAW CUZ DAT'S WUT ALL DA BIG BOIS ARE USIN' SO IT MUS BE O.P. STATUS!"
No. It's overused because there are very few other options that are viable. The ability itself is fine;
Check your facts. It double procs
Pffft...facts. You want people who want to keep their OBVIOUSLY broken ability to be bothered by something as trivial as facts? Your funny.
If you look at the current issues with FAW:
Kemocite crits at half the intended rate
Kemocite procs don't scale with any damage boosts
Kemocite procs at twice the intended rate
FAW drains extra weapon power
FAW doesn't apply accuracy overflow
FAW innately, for everyone, has bugs that decrease it's damage. FAW does not have an innate bug that increases it's damage for everyone; a different ability is buggy during FAW, but overall in such a way that it does significantly less than it would normally. Bug train's not gonna fly, folks.
I'm pretty sure the extra power drain is WAI. Around LoR they added the extra power drain but it was bugged and applied even if not firing a weapon. That was fixed but the extra power drain was left.
"JUST NERF BFAW CUZ DAT'S WUT ALL DA BIG BOIS ARE USIN' SO IT MUS BE O.P. STATUS!"
No. It's overused because there are very few other options that are viable. The ability itself is fine;
Check your facts. It double procs
Pffft...facts. You want people who want to keep their OBVIOUSLY broken ability to be bothered by something as trivial as facts? Your funny.
If you look at the current issues with FAW:
Kemocite crits at half the intended rate
Kemocite procs don't scale with any damage boosts
Kemocite procs at twice the intended rate
FAW drains extra weapon power
FAW doesn't apply accuracy overflow
FAW innately, for everyone, has bugs that decrease it's damage. FAW does not have an innate bug that increases it's damage for everyone; a different ability is buggy during FAW, but overall in such a way that it does significantly less than it would normally. Bug train's not gonna fly, folks.
So what your saying is this ability that can out DPS cannon AOE abilities and out DPS single target abilities even in single target situations is still doing less DPS then it is intended to and you dont think its OP.
Comments
One of the problems with cannons is that you have to get close to the target to get the payoff for using cannons which can be difficult to do when the BFAW Scimitar parked 6k out annihilates all targets before you can close the cannons-are-wet-noodles gap.
Then there's the travel time of cannon damage compared to the instant beam damage.
Torpedo travel time is a whole other can of BFAW.
I reveal my trap card. Beam reflect. because you are using a card effect, Beam reflect not only blocks your attack but the damage you tried to deal to me gets reflected back to you.
You can't play trap cards on BFAW! It's the be-all end-all that renders all other abilities pointless, including traps!
That said... I think that is primarily somethnig to do for Dual Cannons and Dual Heavy Cannons. Regular Cannons and Turrets it might be better to look for a change to the range drop-off. Due to their high firing arc, it's not really meaningful to bring them into a close range play style. You could do it, but the whole maneuvering aspect only really becomes interesting and fun when you also need to be at close range.
Oh yes I can because of it's other ability, negate effect. There's a reason the King of games taught me
(I kid, I kid!)
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
The issue is that beam attacks hit instantly meaning even if they do less damage they have a huge range advantage and time advantage over cannons.
An all beam build and an all cannon build could have the same damage output but the beam one is at an advantage because it hits instantly and it has it easier with arcs.
You've gotta find a way to even that out before you look at damage.
You know what makes my ship so awesome? My BOFFS can switch between AoE and Single Target depending on what I'm fighting. Crystalline? AoE. IC? AoE. Khitomer? AoE. Then switch my FAW and TS to Overload and HY.
Moral of the story: stop complaining that your pathetic single target dps is overshadowed by real staying power.
next thing you know, these pissbabies will be wanting beams removed from the game altogether XD
I used to use BO only. Converted to FAW to keep up with seemingly everyone else. I really would like to go back to BO. Can only do it with pre-made teams with friends. I can get decent DPS with a BO build. That is if I actually get shoot at more than a debris cloud.
I guess all I really want is balance.
Then again, what I really really want is use Marion again. Paid a hell of a lot for him.
I support the Star Trek Battles channel.
My character Tsin'xing
After years of BFAW being broken (not critting, accuracy overflow not affecting it, etc.) it's finally made it's way to "basically working as intended" and instead of whining for other weapons/abilities to be comparatively normalized, you guys want to mow down BFAW to broken status again (or worse, as from reading some of these posts).
Because, logic?
Yeah, make sure you don't ask for fixes to actual issues, such as cannons lacking an equal amount of good traits as beams, fixing the range drop-off, lowering the BOFF rank requirements, increasing its 'projectile' speed, etc. Or how about simply adding in more decent Tactical BOFF abilities that aren't tied to a stupid lockbox (and sell for 150m+).
"JUST NERF BFAW CUZ DAT'S WUT ALL DA BIG BOIS ARE USIN' SO IT MUS BE O.P. STATUS!"
No. It's overused because there are very few other options that are viable. The ability itself is fine; it's when you add a ton of beam and other damage enhancing traits, consoles, and doodads that it surpasses other ability/weapon combos. That does not mean the ability itself is "OP" or "broken" or whatever other buzzword you can think of at the time of posting. It means that other weapons (such as cannons) haven't received as much attention/love as beams. It doesn't even have anything to do with BFAW. If the AoE aspect of BFAW was the issue, why are you guys crying about it 7 years later? Sorry, that doesn't make sense. Back in Escorts Online, you got laughed at for using beams at all (outside of a few niche builds). The 360 AoE aspect didn't mean jack because cannon DPS was still MUCH higher, partly due to BFAW actually being broken at the time, and also before all of these new DPS traits, most of which are for beams and not cannons.
And I am sorry but, lol @ people even asking for it to not be AoE at all. You understand that other people use this ability besides buffing up their beams for max AoE damage right? Turning FaW into a single-target ability basically destroys anyone who has set themselves up as an aggro tank (and yes, people DO still play other roles besides Tactical), or a "proc monster," etc.
Get your heads out of your collective a**es and ask for things that are not performing as they should to be buffed, instead of crying and whining for nerfs when an ability after literally years of being broken and ignored is finally WAI.
This thread should be closed, it's pure sarcasm and bs anyways, and belongs in Ten-Forward, if allowed to exist at all.
That said, if you really think that BFaW is the end-all ability and no-skill casuals are instantly turned into a space-god because they use it, you should honestly spend less time complaining on the forums about everything and play the game more, and perhaps think about moving up from normal queues to elite/advanced.
It shouldn't be something you want to use for single target attacks.
That's just one of the ways BFAW is broken. It's the correct answer to every question except for aceton assimilators.
A 19th century British battleship could unleash an awesome broadside against a single target.
A 25th century battleship should be able to do at least that as well as aiming its guns independently and hitting multiple targets.
The argument against BFAW fails because it makes no sense.
the Star Trek universe was built on massive ships trading beam and torpedo salvos and not on little ships spitting lasers at death stars or spawning black holes.
LET THERE BE TREK !!!!
My character Tsin'xing
Hold up.... people AoE on CCA? Talk about waste and over-inflation of numbers..... kill the Entity quickly and the rest be damned.
Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
You aoe to kill the shards. Simple stuff. Or to KLW+Neutronic - oh, wait, nevermind, they fixed that broken garbage.
SCM - Hive (S) - [02:31] DMG(DPS) - @jarvisandalfred: 30.62M(204.66K) - Fed Sci
Tacs are overrated.
Game's best wiki
Build questions? Look here!
If my officers know how to fire 5 beams instead of 4 per beam cycle, why don't they do it all the time? Why can they do it more often when enemies miss me?
Why can they focus all those beams on one target when there is only one, but spread their shots across multiple targets when there are more?
Or rather, there is sense - the sense is found in that it's a game ability ,and it follows design guidelines for the ability. And one of those guidelines is usually concerned with balance.
Check your facts. It double procs
I AM NOT A FAN OF PWE!!!!
MEMBER SINCE JANUARY 2010
Lol! ILU man!
But seriously, why did I get only 2 procs of KLW from my torpedo spam on the entity?
Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
If you look at the current issues with FAW:
FAW innately, for everyone, has bugs that decrease it's damage. FAW does not have an innate bug that increases it's damage for everyone; a different ability is buggy during FAW, but overall in such a way that it does significantly less than it would normally. Bug train's not gonna fly, folks.
SCM - Hive (S) - [02:31] DMG(DPS) - @jarvisandalfred: 30.62M(204.66K) - Fed Sci
Tacs are overrated.
Game's best wiki
Build questions? Look here!
Ensign Random Guy at Console "Captain! It seems if I mash the 'Fire' button really fast, I can syphon residual energy from my gravimetrically-aligned TRIBBLE to produce an additional beam of energy! Unfortunately, I have to sit down for a few seconds to allow my chroniton-deficient colon time to rest between extra shots"
Captain Dude "Well done, Ensign Random Guy at Console! Make it so!"
I'm pretty sure the extra power drain is WAI. Around LoR they added the extra power drain but it was bugged and applied even if not firing a weapon. That was fixed but the extra power drain was left.
So what your saying is this ability that can out DPS cannon AOE abilities and out DPS single target abilities even in single target situations is still doing less DPS then it is intended to and you dont think its OP.
The hell you smokin