Funny...well I suppose if you mean by *Is history* sorta means make history sure then you're right...groups are still topping the DPS with T5-U ships...not T6.
By history i mean that the players who think T5U is good enough have already purchased it. The new players won't. Also it is matter of time before the old 3-pack T5 ships will be released as T6. If Starfleet have special plans for Odyssey, what are the odds of the Romulan Republic to have special plans for the Scimitar? Or in fact every T5 ship that has ever existed.
It has been 3 quarters of a year before they started getting really serious about doing T6 Retrofits...it's not like T5-U launched last week...
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
I say it depends on the ship. There's many T5 ships that are better than many T6 ships.
On average? Sure, T6 takes it.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
As much as it pains me to admit, I get better mileage out of my T5U freebie anniversary Dyson destroyer than I do my T6 Intrepid. T5U can conditionally trump T6, all depends what you're trying to do with your ship.
My T5U Falchion on my Rom is pretty much on par with the new T6 dreadnought (it actually has a few base stats that makes it better -- ie: turn rate 7 vs 5). For my Fed I did upgrade to Fleet Intel Eclipse over my T5U Assault Cruiser only for the looks and base turn speed. Hull and what not came out to be about the same in the long run.
I have found that depending on a character's build, BoFF's, and gear, a T5U can be just as viable in combat as a T6.
Finally, I can relax and enjoy the vast beauty of the Galaxy.
Of any given ship, the T6 version will be better than its T5-U version (and Fleet T6 than Fleet T5-U), but not by much and depending on the particular ship (the specialization option may or may not be all that useful, the additional 13th Boff ability slot surely is a very useful bonus though).
If you very much enjoy a T5 ship and it is upgradable (and possibly lacks a T6 version for the moment), upgraded, it will be pretty comparable to T6 ships.
TOIVA, Toi Vaxx, Toia Vix, Toveg, T'vritha, To Vrax: Bring in the Allegiance class. Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider. Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
This is usually the case, but it depends on what traits you have unlocked (if any)
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
Seriously really? Just because a ship is T-6 doesn't mean it is as good as or better then a comparable T-5U. If you have a properly geared T-5U the only real difference is a slightly better hull stat and a trait that unlocks. Plus you really don't need a T-6 to play any of the game outside of maybe elite PVE's a T-5U will do you fine. Infact the Scim the highest dps ship is a T-5U! Oh yeah some of the best traits are from Event and Veteran T-6's so just saying you dont necessarily need to buy a T-6 to do end game. ANd traits once you get them transfer to whatever ship you are flying as long as your toon has them slotted in the starship trait section.
Seriously really? Just because a ship is T-6 doesn't mean it is as good as or better then a comparable T-5U. If you have a properly geared T-5U the only real difference is a slightly better hull stat and a trait that unlocks. Plus you really don't need a T-6 to play any of the game outside of maybe elite PVE's a T-5U will do you fine. Infact the Scim the highest dps ship is a T-5U! Oh yeah some of the best traits are from Event and Veteran T-6's so just saying you dont necessarily need to buy a T-6 to do end game. ANd traits once you get them transfer to whatever ship you are flying as long as your toon has them slotted in the starship trait section.
I don't know...people see something new and they automatically say older = obsolete like they're some unthinking robot. Seriously...they act like a 0.001% increase makes something obsolete...yet seem to ignore that T5-U ships are still topping the charts and not many even bother with T6 except for the power traits.
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
I guess it depends a lot on the new powers (of which T5- ships cannot use). If you need/want them, then you're going to have to upgrade, otherwise a T5(U) is perfectly viable with all endgame content.
It was supposed to be JUST as good...but I STILL don't see why they didn't just make the new T6 abilities able to be unlocked for any ship at 60. The abilities...Science Team, Eject Warp Plasma etc, hadn't been updated since the game started.
Their needs to be a T5u to T6 refit package for sale at the Zen store. A tier 5u is the same price as a T6. 2500+500=3000 same price as T6. I'll shell out the extra 500zen to move from T5U to T6. Cryptic still makes money and keeps a player. I stopped playing for months because the T6 vs T5u issue.
Missing hybrid officer, fewer console slots, less hp/armor, less mastery points, fewer abilities.... I really feel like Cryptic tricked me. If I knew that T6 was going to be INREDIBLY SUPERIOR to T5U, I never would have bought my main ship. I would have waited for the T6 release
Technically, T6 is better, at least, that is what was intended, but with the power that is the Scimitar, recluse, and the like, T6 really does not have much in the way of being better. Also, T5-U is more then viable in every aspect of the game, even without the uber ships.
Yes, some of the bests ships are T5U. Scimatar, Aventine, Tac bortasqu', Karfi, etc.. They have no equivalent at T6. The only good thing about T6 are their starship trait but let's say the truth : only a few worth the zen.
I am from Belgium and english isn't my main language, sorry if I make mistakes.
I maintain the opinion that T5U is a good 'stopgap' for those who have a favorite ship with no T6 version.
And that is all they were intended to be. Anything more, including this poll, are based on a random comment made by someone at Cryptic back when the T5U versions were coming out, which was then taken out of context and disingenuously "interpreted" to advance someone's warped entitlement narrative.
They are statistically about the same once the ship traits are leveled and usable on the T5Us. The issue is once I have the trait and want to use my lobi, lockbox or fleet T5Us they don't have the Boff seating advantages of a T6.
Once I earned those T6 traits I went straight back to my fleet LTS ships and Narcine carrier. They are better on many respects than T6 ships. It all depends on the specific ship we are talking about. T5Us and T6 ships are generally close in stats so perform, on a case by case evaluation, similarly. They may differ greatly when we don't get intel/command/pilot seating of the T6. It will be even worse once we get ships with combination intel/command/pilot stations.
Player and forumite formerly known as FEELTHETHUNDER
Each of the Zen store ships gets their own consoles, and those consoles have a set bonus, which means if you want that bonus you need both! If you don't you have little to no trade off.
All I hear from this is "Give me more win!" when listening to proporants (spelling?) of the T6 master race. My Fleet Assault Cruiser Refit would beg to differ.
I already know what it's T6 equivalent will be, and as much as I am happy to have that Lieutenat Commander BOff seating for my Universal seat, which I will always slot as Science, I can live without that. I want it, yes. But I can deal with it if I don't have it.
A shiny console on my T6? Useful or not, I'm not slotting it since I'll just carry over it's former Tier's consoles.
5th Mastery trait? Great, another grind for it and the fleet version. And other ships have traits too? How good are those? Ships bad compared to the one I love? Grind out the C-store ship, toss it aside and slot the trait for the ship I love.
It's more or less how insane can I make my ship.
As much as I'd love a tier 6 Sovereign, it'll be the only ship I buy for a very long time. I came to Star Trek to play Star Trek and be a cruiser captain. I did not come here for a massive "Who has the best (insert item here)" contest.
Also, if people complained about power creep, why'd they buy a ship that supports power creep? >_>
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] "Look at me I'm a target!" "Fire the Lance on my mark... MARK! "How many times have we gone into the breach again R'shee?" My proposal for a Galaxy bundle
The only difference is a slight increase in bonus power, 1 extra Boff power, access to more choice of abilities if they have the seating and 1 console (in most cases). However my T5U Temporal Science Vessel has 11 consoles and T6's from the C-Store have 10, so that's better!
"You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
beside one more boff skill , a spec and 5 more subsystem power , there is no difference. And there are not many usefull spec skills . The real difference is between T5u and specialized T6 (command battle cruisers , pilot escorts, and intel ships) those really make a difference , and worths the money. And the cheapest (lol) they come at fleet quality. In other words , i still have t5u's that outperform T6.
Tier: 6
Hull Strength: 59,000
Shield Modifier: 1.15
Crew: 1800
Weapons: 4 Fore, 4 Aft
Device Slots: 4
Bridge Officer Stations: 1 Lieutenant Tactical, 1 Commander Engineering, 1 Lieutenant Commander Science, 1 Ensign Universal, 1 Lieutenant Commander Universal/Command
Console Modifications: 3 Tactical, 5 Engineering, 3 Science
Base Turn Rate: 7 degrees per second
Impulse Modifier: 0.15
Inertia: 30
+5 to All Power
Can load Dual Cannons
Hangar Bays: 1
Hangar Bays loaded with Breen Bleth Choas Fighters
Console - Universal - Power Discharge Capacitors
Cruiser Communications Array
Command - Attract Fire
Command - Weapon System Efficiency
Starship Ability Package (Dreadnought Cruiser)
Rapid Repairs (+Regen)
Enhanced Plating (+Damage Resistance - Energy and Radiation)
Devastating Weaponry (+Crit Chance)
Armored Hull (+Max Hull HP)
Enhanced Power Condensers(Starship Trait)
Tier:5
Upgrade cost:Requires an Upgrade Token
Type:Dreadnought Cruiser
Admiralty stats:
Hull (T5-U):46,000
Shield Modifier:1
Weapons:Fore 4 Aft 4
Can equip dual cannons.
Hangar Bays:1
Crew:1,000
Bridge Officers:
Device Slots:4
Console t5: tac 3 eng 4 sci 2
Console (T5-U): eng +1
Turn Rate:6
Impulse Modifier:0.15
Inertia rating:25
Bonus Power:
+5 all power levels
Cost:2,500Zen
Abilities:
Cloak
Phaser Spinal Lance
Weapon System Efficiency
Attract Fire
The T6 ship is MASSIVELY more powerful. Way more HP, better stats in all cases. Better crew, better mastery, 2 additional consoles, and even more bridge officers and crew.
Despite the cost being the same, these two ships are not even close to the same league. T5U is much weaker than T6.
Dear God or Q. Do you any of you understand that if you compare a different ship of T6 to a different ship of T5-U then of course it's going to come up short!
The T6 Breen Dreadnought is vastly superior to the T5-U dreadnought. Well duh! They are two different species ships! And not only that, but the T6 event ships are in line with most Fleet T5-U ships. If you compare the Breen Dreadnought to the Feds, compare the Fleet Dreadnought Cruiser then.
The Dominion Dread was still better than the Dread because it had more tac! The fed dread had more of a engineering lean. Do you not remember this?
Does everyone just focus on DPS?!
If you look at ship stats T5-U to T6 equivalent, you will see only a few dofferences. They are noticable if you care about DPS! but not so if you just love the ship.
Free Defiant is better than Free Galaxy. Why? Because DPS! Stop comparing different ship classes, and species ships. You will get no where fast.
And no, the power level is the same for all cruisers, except the FACR.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] "Look at me I'm a target!" "Fire the Lance on my mark... MARK! "How many times have we gone into the breach again R'shee?" My proposal for a Galaxy bundle
Dear God or Q. Do you any of you understand that if you compare a different ship of T6 to a different ship of T5-U then of course it's going to come up short!
The T6 Breen Dreadnought is vastly superior to the T5-U dreadnought. Well duh! They are two different species ships! And not only that, but the T6 event ships are in line with most Fleet T5-U ships. If you compare the Breen Dreadnought to the Feds, compare the Fleet Dreadnought Cruiser then.
The Dominion Dread was still better than the Dread because it had more tac! The fed dread had more of a engineering lean. Do you not remember this?
Does everyone just focus on DPS?!
If you look at ship stats T5-U to T6 equivalent, you will see only a few dofferences. They are noticable if you care about DPS! but not so if you just love the ship.
Free Defiant is better than Free Galaxy. Why? Because DPS! Stop comparing different ship classes, and species ships. You will get no where fast.
And no, the power level is the same for all cruisers, except the FACR.
No. No they don't understand.
As I said in another thread, if you compare "apples to apples" you see not much functional difference between T5U and T6, except where the T6 has an excellent console and/or trait.
Most of the people you're arguing with can't make such distinctions on their own, they need it explained in a kind of detail that inevitably insults them.. then they get pissy and completely ignore what you said and continue on their previous train of thought.
"Intelligence is finite, stupidity is infinite" -- Umberto Eco
T5-U have an extra console
Fleet T5-U have better Hull/Shields, plus a boff seat, plus a console
T6 ships have Fleet T5-U hull/shields, plus a second console, plus the Fleet T5 boff seat, plus a power
while Fleet T6 have even better hull/shields, plus a second boff seat.....
Seems like power creep to me....
While everything you say is completely true, none of that is what makes the difference in my opinion. It seems to me that the big difference is the addition of Specialised BOFF seats. What makes my Fleet Qib rock is the two Intel BOFF seats. Surgical Strikes and Overload System Safeties ups my game significantly.
I don't recall them ever saying T5U would be AS good as T6, just comparable. If you want to claim they actually said that, you'll need to post some kind of a quote.
My only gripes with a T5-U is not having any specialization seating. Oh, and the fact that there is no choice but to use a T5-U when there are no other choices for some factions.
T5U was and is a huge lie that was the only way Craptic could prevent hordes of people from bailing after essentially having their previous ship purchases made completely obsolete with the T6 releases. It never stood a chance of competing with T6, especially with Fleet T6 on top of it.
With that said, if they hadn't done it, the player bleeding from Profits Rising would have been far worse. I did it on several ships for my alts and have been severely limiting my T6 ship purchases.
Watch for the same "tactic" to be used when T6 becomes T7 in a couple years. I am severely unlikely to upgrade again.
Delta Rising is the best expansion ever and the players love it! No, seriously! ...Why are you laughing so hard?
You know what? Never mind this topic. I'm just going to jump into my T5-U FACR and play the game. That'll take my mind off the ungodly amounts of power creep proclaimers.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] "Look at me I'm a target!" "Fire the Lance on my mark... MARK! "How many times have we gone into the breach again R'shee?" My proposal for a Galaxy bundle
No, it wasn't and isn't. It was exactly as-advertised, however different that fact may be from some peoples' fictional accounts. If you leapt to the wrong conclusion, that's your fault.
Comments
It has been 3 quarters of a year before they started getting really serious about doing T6 Retrofits...it's not like T5-U launched last week...
On average? Sure, T6 takes it.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
I'll pass on the T7's. I refuse to get the upgrades, thinking they're just about as good as the upcoming T8s.
I have found that depending on a character's build, BoFF's, and gear, a T5U can be just as viable in combat as a T6.
If you very much enjoy a T5 ship and it is upgradable (and possibly lacks a T6 version for the moment), upgraded, it will be pretty comparable to T6 ships.
Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider.
Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
I don't know...people see something new and they automatically say older = obsolete like they're some unthinking robot. Seriously...they act like a 0.001% increase makes something obsolete...yet seem to ignore that T5-U ships are still topping the charts and not many even bother with T6 except for the power traits.
Missing hybrid officer, fewer console slots, less hp/armor, less mastery points, fewer abilities.... I really feel like Cryptic tricked me. If I knew that T6 was going to be INREDIBLY SUPERIOR to T5U, I never would have bought my main ship. I would have waited for the T6 release
And that is all they were intended to be. Anything more, including this poll, are based on a random comment made by someone at Cryptic back when the T5U versions were coming out, which was then taken out of context and disingenuously "interpreted" to advance someone's warped entitlement narrative.
Once I earned those T6 traits I went straight back to my fleet LTS ships and Narcine carrier. They are better on many respects than T6 ships. It all depends on the specific ship we are talking about. T5Us and T6 ships are generally close in stats so perform, on a case by case evaluation, similarly. They may differ greatly when we don't get intel/command/pilot seating of the T6. It will be even worse once we get ships with combination intel/command/pilot stations.
Player and forumite formerly known as FEELTHETHUNDER
Expatriot Might Characters in EXILE
Fleet T6 = Fleet T5-U - 1 BOff ability - 5th Mastery Trait - specialization
Each of the Zen store ships gets their own consoles, and those consoles have a set bonus, which means if you want that bonus you need both! If you don't you have little to no trade off.
All I hear from this is "Give me more win!" when listening to proporants (spelling?) of the T6 master race. My Fleet Assault Cruiser Refit would beg to differ.
I already know what it's T6 equivalent will be, and as much as I am happy to have that Lieutenat Commander BOff seating for my Universal seat, which I will always slot as Science, I can live without that. I want it, yes. But I can deal with it if I don't have it.
A shiny console on my T6? Useful or not, I'm not slotting it since I'll just carry over it's former Tier's consoles.
5th Mastery trait? Great, another grind for it and the fleet version. And other ships have traits too? How good are those? Ships bad compared to the one I love? Grind out the C-store ship, toss it aside and slot the trait for the ship I love.
It's more or less how insane can I make my ship.
As much as I'd love a tier 6 Sovereign, it'll be the only ship I buy for a very long time. I came to Star Trek to play Star Trek and be a cruiser captain. I did not come here for a massive "Who has the best (insert item here)" contest.
Also, if people complained about power creep, why'd they buy a ship that supports power creep? >_>
"Look at me I'm a target!"
"Fire the Lance on my mark... MARK!
"How many times have we gone into the breach again R'shee?"
My proposal for a Galaxy bundle
The T6 Breen Dreadnought is vastly superior to the T5-U dreadnought. Well duh! They are two different species ships! And not only that, but the T6 event ships are in line with most Fleet T5-U ships. If you compare the Breen Dreadnought to the Feds, compare the Fleet Dreadnought Cruiser then.
The Dominion Dread was still better than the Dread because it had more tac! The fed dread had more of a engineering lean. Do you not remember this?
Does everyone just focus on DPS?!
If you look at ship stats T5-U to T6 equivalent, you will see only a few dofferences. They are noticable if you care about DPS! but not so if you just love the ship.
Free Defiant is better than Free Galaxy. Why? Because DPS! Stop comparing different ship classes, and species ships. You will get no where fast.
And no, the power level is the same for all cruisers, except the FACR.
"Look at me I'm a target!"
"Fire the Lance on my mark... MARK!
"How many times have we gone into the breach again R'shee?"
My proposal for a Galaxy bundle
No. No they don't understand.
As I said in another thread, if you compare "apples to apples" you see not much functional difference between T5U and T6, except where the T6 has an excellent console and/or trait.
Most of the people you're arguing with can't make such distinctions on their own, they need it explained in a kind of detail that inevitably insults them.. then they get pissy and completely ignore what you said and continue on their previous train of thought.
While everything you say is completely true, none of that is what makes the difference in my opinion. It seems to me that the big difference is the addition of Specialised BOFF seats. What makes my Fleet Qib rock is the two Intel BOFF seats. Surgical Strikes and Overload System Safeties ups my game significantly.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
With that said, if they hadn't done it, the player bleeding from Profits Rising would have been far worse. I did it on several ships for my alts and have been severely limiting my T6 ship purchases.
Watch for the same "tactic" to be used when T6 becomes T7 in a couple years. I am severely unlikely to upgrade again.
Most unexpectedly, this turned into a flame-fest! Closed it goes!. /sigh What flamefestery is this? pwlaughingtrendy
"Look at me I'm a target!"
"Fire the Lance on my mark... MARK!
"How many times have we gone into the breach again R'shee?"
My proposal for a Galaxy bundle
No, it wasn't and isn't. It was exactly as-advertised, however different that fact may be from some peoples' fictional accounts. If you leapt to the wrong conclusion, that's your fault.