Is T5-U as good as T6 as it was advertised to be?

goodscotch

kamiyama317

No, T5-U isn't as good as T6.

I don't remember T5U ever being advertised as T6. T5U is T5.

lianthelia

T5-U is about the same as T6.

I'd say since some of the highest DPS ships are still T5-U...T5-U is doing okay...it sure isn't anywhere near this whole obsolete argument people bring up even to this day.

sunseahl

it's hard to say really.....

T5-U have an extra console

Fleet T5-U have better Hull/Shields, plus a boff seat, plus a console

T6 ships have Fleet T5-U hull/shields, plus a second console, plus the Fleet T5 boff seat, plus a power

while Fleet T6 have even better hull/shields, plus a second boff seat.....


Seems like power creep to me....​​

hyefather

No, T5-U isn't as good as T6.

Duh, of course its not as good. I'm not going to state the obvious and compare them becasue anyone with half a brain at first glance can see the diffrence. Behind the stats though, its all about money. How could cryptic make money if they made all your old TRIBBLE as good as all the new TRIBBLE. Think about it?

lianthelia

T5-U is about the same as T6.

sunseahl wrote: »

it's hard to say really.....

T5-U have an extra console

Fleet T5-U have better Hull/Shields, plus a boff seat, plus a console

T6 ships have better hull/shields, plus a second console, plus the Fleet T5 boff seat, plus a power

while Fleet T6 have even better hull/shields, plus a second boff seat.....


Seems like power creep to me....​​

Would be almost as much power creep if the game didn't have T6...

gulberat

I'm not sure what the difference between the first and third poll options is supposed to be.

I have refused to buy T6 ships, though my understanding is that my main T5-U, the Vesta, is Fleet-equivalent and probably one of the better T5U's in the game. Overall I've been satisfied with its performance since I completed all of its upgrades to Mk XIV VR. (I am not going past VR because I refuse to gamble resources without a guaranteed return.) My T5U Dromias has also behaved itself nicely.

Jury is still out on my Dyson Science Destroyer on my Reman, though. I am going to try an alternative weapons loadout and some upgrades and see if that helps, but I refuse to spring for anything in the C-store, so I have got to find some way to make that DSD work.

kamiyama317

No, T5-U isn't as good as T6.

T5U ships don't have bridge officer specializations or any of the special abilities that are unique to T6 ships, like pilot maneuvers for pilot ships or integrated cloaks like the Fed side T6 intelligence ships.

The bridge officer specializations alone put T6 ships on a whole new level because they have access to bridge officer abilities that T5 ships will never have. I'm going to list them here so you can't keep denying it:

Intelligence Space Abilities
Evade Target Lock
Intelligence Team
override Subsystem Safeties
Subspace Beacon
Viral Impulse Burst
Electromagnetic Pulse Probe
Ionic Turbulence
Kinetic Magnet
Energy Weapons: Surgical Strikes
Subnucleonic Carrier Wave
Torpedo: Transport Warhead

Command Space Abilities
Concentrate Firepower
Overwhelm Emitters
Reroute Power from Life Support
Ambush Marker
Needs of the Many
Rally Point Marker
Subspace Interception
Call Emergency Artillery
Phalanx Formation
Suppression Barrage

Pilot Space Abilities
Attack Pattern Lambda
Deploy Countermeasures
Lock Trajectory
Pilot Team
Clean Getaway
Fly Her Apart
Hold Together
Reinforcements Squadron
Coolant Ignition
Form Up
Reroute Reserves to Weapons
Subspace Boom

That's 33 new bridge officer abilities that cannot be used by any T5 or T5U ship, ever. Bridge officer specializations are unique to T6 ships and some of these abilities are pretty hardcore awesome.

As a pilot spec captain I would love reroute reserves to weapons on my ship. Reinforcements squadron and pilot team look nice too.

T5U isn't T6. Not even close.

lianthelia

T5-U is about the same as T6.

kamiyama317 wrote: »

T5U ships don't have bridge officer specializations or any of the special abilities that are unique to T6 ships, like pilot maneuvers for pilot ships or integrated cloaks like the Fed side T6 intelligence ships.

The bridge officer specializations alone put T6 ships on a whole new level because they have access to bridge officer abilities that T5 ships will never have. I'm going to list them here so you can't keep denying it:

So? Does it really matter? Does it matter if they had access to a 100 new boff abilities when no one uses 99% of them?

Only few good ones from Intel have been nerfed to hell and never was anything good from Command and I don't see many people use anything from Pilot except the Reinforcement Squad...

tinyfisted

That's an easy fix. All universal boff slots tier5+ become universal/universal.

goodscotch

No, T5-U isn't as good as T6.

gulberat wrote: »

I'm not sure what the difference between the first and third poll options is supposed to be.

Yeah, sorry about that. I really wanted to say, T5-U is better than T6. But it looks like the current choices are generating some dialogue.

Thanks for the observation.

kamiyama317

No, T5-U isn't as good as T6.

lianthelia wrote: »

kamiyama317 wrote: »

T5U ships don't have bridge officer specializations or any of the special abilities that are unique to T6 ships, like pilot maneuvers for pilot ships or integrated cloaks like the Fed side T6 intelligence ships.

The bridge officer specializations alone put T6 ships on a whole new level because they have access to bridge officer abilities that T5 ships will never have. I'm going to list them here so you can't keep denying it:

So? Does it really matter? Does it matter if they had access to a 100 new boff abilities when no one uses 99% of them?

That's a false statistic. We have a swath of new abilities that allow new ship builds, ability combos, and strategies. You may not choose not to use what's available to you, but players looking to further improve their performance will.

lianthelia

T5-U is about the same as T6.

kamiyama317 wrote: »

lianthelia wrote: »

kamiyama317 wrote: »

T5U ships don't have bridge officer specializations or any of the special abilities that are unique to T6 ships, like pilot maneuvers for pilot ships or integrated cloaks like the Fed side T6 intelligence ships.

The bridge officer specializations alone put T6 ships on a whole new level because they have access to bridge officer abilities that T5 ships will never have. I'm going to list them here so you can't keep denying it:

So? Does it really matter? Does it matter if they had access to a 100 new boff abilities when no one uses 99% of them?

That's a false statistic. We have a swath of new abilities that allow new ship builds, ability combos, and strategies. You may not choose not to use what's available to you, but players looking to further improve their performance will.

Okay then...tell me what new specialization abilities the DPS gods are using to increase their DPS? KLW? Oh wait that is a Tac ability which everyone can use! What is that? The gods are still using Scimitars and Recluses to get the best DPS? But that's impossible...they're T5-U...everyone knows T5-U's are inferior to T6!

orion0029

T5-U is about the same as T6.

Hmm, I've used T6 ships and T5-U ships, and aside from the additional boff seat and specialization abilities I don't see any significant loss in performance in a T5-U vs. T6.

Even those Spec abilities don't really turn the tide. Command is very situational/supportive. Intel is clever, but is also somewhat situational (it is a bit easier to use though due to OSS/SS abilities). And Pilot is flashy but not terribly effective (unless you're in a Pilot Escort).

All things considered, I'd still use basic Tac/Eng/Sci abilities most of the time anyway (Unless I'm in a specialist ship with plenty of hybrid seating).

Most of the time, combat performance is gained/lost by having improper equipment, traits, or boff ability synergy.

The ship is important, but ultimately most of combat performance is determined elsewhere.

asuran14

It really is not about if the t5u is as good as the t6 really that is just not going to happen, but after taking into account the trait they get along with stat differences the t6 will come out higher overall statistically, which makes sense in many ways as they are the updated an newer ships being put out. Now here is the issue once you get the starship trait it is usable on any starship you have, which negates that bonus kinda making it just the boff/spec seats an stat differences (i am talking comparing similar or same line/class/carear ships here), but also they were never said to be equal to Teir-six ships ever only to being viable options alongside teir six. You have to look at each ship in each tier on a indivigual basis not as a whole, there are trully bad min/max wise ships in both tiers, but also extremely good ones as well. I would love to see them expand the univeral slot to be able to use abilties of specialities up to one station below the listed station rank, which would still give only tier six speciality ships access to the highest tier of the spec abilties, but also give more ships the option to use the spec abilties an more build veriety overall.

Where the use or non-use of boff abilities is concearned who are we talking about? Min/maxers might use only a small amount of the abilties, but i have seen alot of non-min/max players that use a great veriety of the abilities at hand in the game (and have alot of fun doing it.). I would not mind seeing them expand more on the abilties we have for both normal carear, and speciality specs, before we get more speciality speccs added.

coupaholic

No, T5-U isn't as good as T6.

I suppose a T5-U is by design inferior to T6 ships.

But that does not mean that T5-U or even T5 ships are useless. I've been using mirror ships on both my Captains presently and they keep up with everyone else fine.​​

artan42

I don't know. I don't have a T6 Oddy to compare to.​​

crm14916

T5-U is about the same as T6.

I fly a few T5-U ships because the powers that be have not released a ship yet that I like at the T6 level. I have just as much fun flying the T5-U ships as I do the T6 ships. The T5U's have traits, but not as many as the T6's... The BIG difference for me at least is in the Boff Seats. The special powers granted by, say, a Command or Intel bridge officer seat make enough of a difference that when a good T6 comes along, I try to get it...

Otherwise, performance-wise, there's not that much of a difference... Basically I'm dittoing above comments, and agreeing with their synopsis...

CM

scarling

No, T5-U isn't as good as T6.

tinyfisted wrote: »

That's an easy fix. All universal boff slots tier5+ become universal/universal.

goodscotch

No, T5-U isn't as good as T6.

artan42 wrote: »

I don't know. I don't have a T6 Oddy to compare to.​​

I'm short a T6 K'tinga. LOL!

lordgyor

T5-U is about the same as T6.

T6 is a bit better then most T-U ships, especially Fleet T6, but its not major, and they are exceptions, like the Scimatar which I believe can match just about any T6 ship.

scarling

No, T5-U isn't as good as T6.

I think the argument holds to ships that already have a t6 equivalent. It's hard to say t5 is better when there is no t6 equivalent to compare it to. All thought some seem to have no problem making that assumption.

johnny111971

Yes, T5-U is just as good as T6.

I've gone back to the T5U after gaining the starship trait from the T6. I don't see a huge difference (yet... and "yet" is the key word).

Given Cryptics track record, new ships have to be more powerful... be it lockbox or C-Store then their predecessors. Its a matter of time before there will be a T6 that outdoes all T5U.​​

tinyfisted

scarling wrote: »

tinyfisted wrote: »

That's an easy fix. All universal boff slots tier5+ become universal/universal.

*shrug* Why not? Yes, it'd change the metagame almost completely, but if it was done to _all_ T5 ships or better, would it really be game-breaking?

bobbydazlers

T5-U is about the same as T6.

ok so as far as I can see they have the same number of weapons slots and the same number of console slots.

they also have the same number of boffs although the only difference here is one of the boffs is swapped out for a command officer but that is just splitting hairs in my opinion, there is very little difference between a command officer boff and a regular boff that is worth fretting over.

the only thing that is really missing is the winnable starship trait, given that you can only use 4 starship traits at any one time and this includes the trait that comes with any T6 starship I really don't see this as an issue once a starship trait is gained they can be used with any other starship regardless of where they come from, there are also many traits that can be gained from non starship sources so there is no reason that everyone cant get a full set of starship traits whether they have their own T6 ships or not.

also when you consider that every year we get given 3 free T6 starships players have plenty of opportunity to build up a large array of traits if they want to.

for this reason I see very little difference between a T6 starship and a T5U.

centaurianalpha

No, T5-U isn't as good as T6.

T6 vs. T5U: armor goes up, additional console, ship trait (which is moot if your captain has already accumulated traits from other T6's).

lianthelia

T5-U is about the same as T6.

centaurianalpha wrote: »

T6 vs. T5U: armor goes up, additional console, ship trait (which is moot if your captain has already accumulated traits from other T6's).

Additional console? Does that really matter since people don't ever use them and call them a gimmick? By Armor I assume you mean hull strength? Like that wouldn't happen with power creep if there was no T6 and the Devs were still making T5? No...the Cryptic devs would never dare power creep!

lianthelia

T5-U is about the same as T6.

tinyfisted wrote: »

scarling wrote: »

tinyfisted wrote: »

That's an easy fix. All universal boff slots tier5+ become universal/universal.

*shrug* Why not? Yes, it'd change the metagame almost completely, but if it was done to _all_ T5 ships or better, would it really be game-breaking?

Wouldn't be game breaking but it wont happen.

sirmayday

No, T5-U isn't as good as T6.

My response is more about the broad concepts than specific ships/stats. It was suggested, when T6 came out, that buying a $7.00 upgrade makes a T5 ship 'as good as' a T6 analogue. The T6 will have a starship trait, some of which are completely forgettable, but some of which radically altered the metagame. Tier 6 ships may have specialist seating, not to mention having an additional BOff power, period (which seems like a serious oversight in the 'T5-U is just as good as T6' line). And then there's the fact that a good chunk of T6 ships have extra powers related to newly released specializations--Intel ships, Command ships, and Pilot ships--that just don't have corresponding elements in T5 ships (or, for that matter, other T6 ships).

The fact remains, of course, that some T5-U ships are completely viable alternatives to T6--I'm pretty sure the prevalence of Scimitars hasn't changed, for instance--but the idea that T5-U would be just like T6, that you could pay for a comparatively inexpensive upgrade instead of buying a whole new ship, was terribly misleading.

nikephorus

T5U was just a way for Cryptic to double dip. Had they announced that they would be re-releasing most ships at T6 I doubt many people would have bothered with T5U upgrades. I still think that was pretty underhanded of them.

johnny111971

Yes, T5-U is just as good as T6.

sirmayday wrote: »

My response is more about the broad concepts than specific ships/stats. It was suggested, when T6 came out, that buying a $7.00 upgrade makes a T5 ship 'as good as' a T6 analogue. The T6 will have a starship trait, some of which are completely forgettable, but some of which radically altered the metagame. Tier 6 ships may have specialist seating, not to mention having an additional BOff power, period (which seems like a serious oversight in the 'T5-U is just as good as T6' line). And then there's the fact that a good chunk of T6 ships have extra powers related to newly released specializations--Intel ships, Command ships, and Pilot ships--that just don't have corresponding elements in T5 ships (or, for that matter, other T6 ships).

The fact remains, of course, that some T5-U ships are completely viable alternatives to T6--I'm pretty sure the prevalence of Scimitars hasn't changed, for instance--but the idea that T5-U would be just like T6, that you could pay for a comparatively inexpensive upgrade instead of buying a whole new ship, was terribly misleading.

I am not sure that should be a surprise. Cryptic, for quite a long time, has believed ship/powercreep = content. I don't feel that the differences (currently) really require you to go T6. As far as specializations, other than boff abilities, I am not sure I understand what you mean... passives do apply to whichever ship you fly, as do the traits.

Eventually, there will be a new tier... I think the closeness of the T5U and T6 is to soften the blow (I may be cynical). This shouldnt be looked at as "bad" rather as the game growing.. although I would argue we don't need new ships.. we need more and tougher content that can actually challenge the ships we have.​​