How else were they to approach it? By not including a design taking any cues from a ship in the game. By including one design that takes cues from another design in game, (and one design that a great amount of people love), youve automatically biased the results of any contest toward that design, and against any of the others.
If the Jupiter had never existed, and this design won, I would be unhappy but atleast every design would have had its fair chance and I would have felt like my voice actually mattered in the process. With the Jupiter existing however it skews the results and any contest that was had was just going through the motions to get one design done, and anyone who voted for anything other than Omega didnt actually matter in the grand scheme of it.
This feels less like I had a choice in the design and more like the ship team wanted to redo the Jupiter, but didnt have the free time to do it on their own, so they had to get it through other means.
This was a poor contest. Not because my favourite design lost. But because not all of the designs were impartial. One design clearly had a bias. That one design won, not because it was objectively better (not even because it was subjectively better), it won because it was partially based on an earlier ship in game. Thats not how you run a contest. And any contest run that way is rigged. Just as this one was.
I think you're misplacing the bias, though. This isn't bias on the part of Cryptic, so much as bias on the part of the voters, isn't it? And since the act of voting is nothing more than declaring your bias, perhaps the outcome was predictable. That doesn't make it rigged or invalid. It makes it a representation of giving the players a chance to take what they wanted. We were also given the chance(s) to take other choices, but those selections lost out fair and square.
The only way, and I mean the only way, the entire contest wasnt a farce is if Cryptic had ZERO idea that people wanted a playable Jupiter in game. Given that requests for both a playable Typhoon (which came in the form of the Command Battle Cruisers) and Jupiter are nearly as old as the forums themselves there is a non-zero chance that Cryptic didnt know that.
If they knew that people wanted a playable Jupiter (and really there is no way they couldnt know), and they included a ship taking design cues directly from the Jupiter, then the entire process was a farce, and showed atleast some bias on Cryptic's part.
The other designs cant have lost out fair and square, if they were never in the running to begin with. The first thing I read about Omega on these forums were "It looks kind of like the Jupiter". And that sealed the fate of every other design. They were going to lose, and lose big. The only reason it seems like every design had a chance is because of the way the voting was done. If there had been a single poll, with all 8 options, Omega would have won outright, just like it did the moment someone said "It looks kind of like the Jupiter".
Like I said, this feels less like a contest to design the next ship, and more like the ship team wanting to revamp the Jupiter without having enough time in the schedule to do it. Because every other design was brand new (or so the blog suggests), while Omega takes direct cues from the one ship that not only exists in game, but is one that has been wanted since these forums (in all their iterations) have been around.
Again, if the Jupiter had never existed, and this design won, Id be unhappy that my favourite design didnt win, but I wouldnt be calling the entire contest rigged. Right now it feels as if every vote didnt matter, because only one ship ever had an actual chance of winning, everything else was just there to enable us to go through the motions of voting.
I'
m with cuchulainn... It's also possible Cryptic did it to test and see how much people wanted a Jupiter-style design. It's hard to determine from reading the forum how many people would actually be willing to use one.
How else were they to approach it? By not including a design taking any cues from a ship in the game. By including one design that takes cues from another design in game, (and one design that a great amount of people love), youve automatically biased the results of any contest toward that design, and against any of the others.
If the Jupiter had never existed, and this design won, I would be unhappy but atleast every design would have had its fair chance and I would have felt like my voice actually mattered in the process. With the Jupiter existing however it skews the results and any contest that was had was just going through the motions to get one design done, and anyone who voted for anything other than Omega didnt actually matter in the grand scheme of it.
This feels less like I had a choice in the design and more like the ship team wanted to redo the Jupiter, but didnt have the free time to do it on their own, so they had to get it through other means.
This was a poor contest. Not because my favourite design lost. But because not all of the designs were impartial. One design clearly had a bias. That one design won, not because it was objectively better (not even because it was subjectively better), it won because it was partially based on an earlier ship in game. Thats not how you run a contest. And any contest run that way is rigged. Just as this one was.
I think you're misplacing the bias, though. This isn't bias on the part of Cryptic, so much as bias on the part of the voters, isn't it? And since the act of voting is nothing more than declaring your bias, perhaps the outcome was predictable. That doesn't make it rigged or invalid. It makes it a representation of giving the players a chance to take what they wanted. We were also given the chance(s) to take other choices, but those selections lost out fair and square.
The only way, and I mean the only way, the entire contest wasnt a farce is if Cryptic had ZERO idea that people wanted a playable Jupiter in game. Given that requests for both a playable Typhoon (which came in the form of the Command Battle Cruisers) and Jupiter are nearly as old as the forums themselves there is a non-zero chance that Cryptic didnt know that.
If they knew that people wanted a playable Jupiter (and really there is no way they couldnt know), and they included a ship taking design cues directly from the Jupiter, then the entire process was a farce, and showed atleast some bias on Cryptic's part.
The other designs cant have lost out fair and square, if they were never in the running to begin with. The first thing I read about Omega on these forums were "It looks kind of like the Jupiter". And that sealed the fate of every other design. They were going to lose, and lose big. The only reason it seems like every design had a chance is because of the way the voting was done. If there had been a single poll, with all 8 options, Omega would have won outright, just like it did the moment someone said "It looks kind of like the Jupiter".
Like I said, this feels less like a contest to design the next ship, and more like the ship team wanting to revamp the Jupiter without having enough time in the schedule to do it. Because every other design was brand new (or so the blog suggests), while Omega takes direct cues from the one ship that not only exists in game, but is one that has been wanted since these forums (in all their iterations) have been around.
Again, if the Jupiter had never existed, and this design won, Id be unhappy that my favourite design didnt win, but I wouldnt be calling the entire contest rigged. Right now it feels as if every vote didnt matter, because only one ship ever had an actual chance of winning, everything else was just there to enable us to go through the motions of voting.
I'
m with cuchulainn... It's also possible Cryptic did it to test and see how much people wanted a Jupiter-style design. It's hard to determine from reading the forum how many people would actually be willing to use one.
Guys.
If the dev team wanted to ask people their thoughts on a Jupiter class redesign, they would have simply done so.
For you to pawn off your hurt feelings at the outcome of the contest on a completely baseless conspiracy is incredibly insensitive to the work the devs and Trendy had/have put into this event.
I can't imagine that Omega was overly popular with the dev team anyways. Historically speaking, a lot of people on the team have actually detested the Jupiter class, and for quite a long time resisted considering updating the ship and revamping it for the playerbase to use.
They would not have concocted an elaborate plot to cover the (tenuous) fact that they had finally reversed their decision on the matter.
As it stands, it is far more likely they added in a design based off the Jupiter as a bone tossed to its loyal fans in the playerbase, and more than likely didn't expect the overwhelming support the ship drew.
But here we are anyways. Was it a foregone conclusion that a design inspired by the Jupiter was going to win? No of course not. Look at how close voting was in the final stretch. The Omega won by only a few hundred votes.
But it was probably the only design in the running that already had a following devoted to it before the contest was even a thing. Which obviously helped it secure the win in the end.
We're not gonna get Phantom pets, lmao.
Or Defiant pets, or Aquarius pets, or Miranda pets. Though tiny, those ships are still way too big, and way too, uh, "independently designed" to actually be carrier pets.
If anything, we might get some kind of new heavy assault fighter, since most of the heavy shuttle pets we have are support themed.
Just me, hoping
When you look at the Breen ships, the Sarr Theln carrier can launch the Plesh Brek escorts as well.
But yeah a heavy assault fighter would be an interesting alternative too a 2410 upgrade to the Peregrine maybe?
"Ad astra audacter eamus in alis fidelium."
-
"To boldly go to the stars on the wings of the faithful."
This was a poor contest. Not because my favourite design lost. But because not all of the designs were impartial. One design clearly had a bias. That one design won, not because it was objectively better (not even because it was subjectively better), it won because it was partially based on an earlier ship in game. Thats not how you run a contest. And any contest run that way is rigged. Just as this one was.
I simply voted Omega because I like it. Didn't even realise it had Jupiter influences.
Besides, I strongly dislike the Jupiter in the first place.
But it was probably the only design in the running that already had a following devoted to it before the contest was even a thing. Which obviously helped it secure the win in the end.
I'm not even sure how much that is true. Some of the other designs seem heavily inspired by other existing ships. Delta has a certain resemblance to the Nebula for example.
But it was probably the only design in the running that already had a following devoted to it before the contest was even a thing. Which obviously helped it secure the win in the end.
I'm not even sure how much that is true. Some of the other designs seem heavily inspired by other existing ships. Delta has a certain resemblance to the Nebula for example.
The devs have already admitted that the Omega design was created with heavy cues from the Jupiter class.
The Jupiter class NPC ship has had a long-standing base of players dedicated to seeing the ship available for the playerbase in some way.
So, while some of the other entrants may have elements inspired by more recognizable Trek ships, only the Omega was designed to be more-or-less a successor to an older NPC ship.
I voted for Alpha, but this was my 2nd choice. I like the way it looks. I hope we get a custome bridge and a pet buff.
As far as the question about if it was sci oriented or not, that's a big deflector for a non-science ship. At first i was wondering if that was a 3rd fighter bay. But this rendering clearly shows it being a deflector dish. Not saying it's impossable to be something else. However, i'd also like to go back to the 3D drawing and point out that cresent light that looks like another deflector dish. Though if that were the case, it would be the first carrier to come with one...
"Sooner than you think" was Salami Inferno's answer. So I guess it's going to arrive next thursday. The dev blog about the developpment of the Omega probably was the first of many. I hope it comes with unique hangar pets.
"Sooner than you think" was Salami Inferno's answer. So I guess it's going to arrive next thursday. The dev blog about the developpment of the Omega probably was the first of many. I hope it comes with unique hangar pets.
I like it. That was actually one of the ones I voted for, though I had no idea it was going to be a carrier. Looking forward to getting it.
Fleet Admiral Nyte T'challa-United Federation of Planets-Task Force Draco-Tactical "No matter where you go, there you are." "I found a bug in Beta, Cryptic squished it. STO Founder and Proud LTS member."
I see that they have named the ship the Jupiter and if this leads to the eventual removal of that hideous old model of the Jupiter from the game then I applaud the results of this contest wholeheartedly. It certainly wouldn't be my first choice for a carrier, the Beta was my preferred design, and I do hope they will include customization options to change the pylon lengths and engine sizes (being able to add an instrument pod would be nice too). Jupiter lovers may not be happy that they are not getting their exact ship but this is far better than nothing at all and if there's to be a bunch of them flying around, I much prefer this ship to the current monstrosity.
If something is not broken, don't fix it, if it is broken, don't leave it broken.
Okay, I'm thinking of starting a petition to PWE to get them to at least have the other proposed designs for the previous contest made available for customization. At the very least, even the worst design was still better than that giant box known as the old Jupiter class. Plus, it would all but satisfy much of the anti-Omego crowd.
Look at the picture, "U.S.S. Jupiter" over the deflector, you can't get more obvious than that. I'm hoping this is going to be a full replacement for the Jupiter, so we can at least kiss that old horror goodbye.
If something is not broken, don't fix it, if it is broken, don't leave it broken.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
I love everything except the deflector. The ship has very smooth lines on every other part except that big square deflector. An oval shape would fit better.
Dr. Miranda Jones: I understand, Mr. Spock. The glory of creation is in its infinite diversity.
Mr. Spock: And the ways our differences combine, to create meaning and beauty.
Will this ship get the honor of introducing a new or unique bridge? Something geared towards carriers would be quite nice. Looking at the command section, I can see massive windows under the bridge dome, so I'd imagine there's plenty of space to install something epic. Something with multiple levels, preferably- as in taking up two decks like the Aquarius, only with much more space.
Also, given that the Klingons can deploy BoPs from their carriers, perhaps its time to either introduce the Saber class as a launchable hangar item, or else convert the Aquarius destroyer into a hangar pet.
I was a bit skeptical about this design at first. Between Alpha and Omega, I definitely preferred Alpha. This one seemed too big and awkward, and I never like weirdly curved nacelles like those. Now that I've seen the design as an in-game model, I'm very happy with it. The hanger bays on the front and sides look great, the nacelles look much better with this much detail added, and its size and hull shape is starting to make sense. I hope this ship is as big as an Odyssey class. Starfleet needs another large capital ship, and I'm so glad it could be a full fledged carrier. I absolutely love carriers, even if this thing ends up carrying nothing but fighters.
Do we know what profession the carrier will be yet? My Delta toon currently flies an Atrox but I'm not sure a science ship suits him best.
I too would like to see some customization of the Omega even if those alternatives don't come from losing models. One thing I dislike about the Odyssey is its lack of customization (yes I get that it was based on a person's winning entry... but Cryptic changed it enough through the creative process to, I think, allow for flexibility on the part of the fanbase).
For the record my prior comment isn't an anti Omega/Jupiter gripe... I just like to do the old Lego thing and customise with the basic tools I'm given. I like the freedom to be able to tinker with any ship I get... hence the Odyssey grumble.
For the record my prior comment isn't an anti Omega/Jupiter gripe... I just like to do the old Lego thing and customise with the basic tools I'm given. I like the freedom to be able to tinker with any ship I get... hence the Odyssey grumble.
You mean you want customization options? Me, too.
With any luck, it will be a 3-pack perhaps? (Unless they do it like the Oddy 3-pack, then it's no luck, just expensive.)
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
For the record my prior comment isn't an anti Omega/Jupiter gripe... I just like to do the old Lego thing and customise with the basic tools I'm given. I like the freedom to be able to tinker with any ship I get... hence the Odyssey grumble.
You mean you want customization options? Me, too.
With any luck, it will be a 3-pack perhaps? (Unless they do it like the Oddy 3-pack, then it's no luck, just expensive.)
You know with the specializations... one of these days they are probably going to offer bigger packs with more diverse options. (Tac, Tac/Com, Tac/Int, Tac/Pil, Eng, Eng/Com, Eng/Int, Eng/Pil, Sci, Sci/Com, Sci/Int, Sci,Pil). Just think... you could get a vanilla pack (Tac/Eng/Sci), a Tac pack (Tac & Tac specialist bundle), Eng pack, Sci Pack, Specialist variant packs. They could come at you from every angle and they could do something scary like they did with the Dyson Science Destroyers and make certain perks only be attainable if you bought every single one. And then you get into the very scary territory of not just a 12 pack for one faction.... but a 36 pack of all variants and faction versions of the same ship.
Yeah I know I'm making it sound ridiculously scary but... what if?
Maybe I shouldn't farm the idea out and inspire people eh?
Why only 2 fighter decks ? 4(8 smaller) craft barely make any difference. If its a carrier, increase it to 4 (16 smaller) craft. Now we have a carrier if you do that. Otherwise, its already an outdated ship fresh out of drydock =/
To that end, honestly Starfleet and even KDF are oversaturated with ships; The Romulans are the only faction that is lacking. RR needs sci and carrier ships badly for lack of them, or even more tactical vessels.
Lastly, but most importantly there are more ships then content. I think Cryptic would do better in providing more content, more aggressively for all those ships. Significant increase in STFs and other content, would dramatically improve the gameplay, and playerbase.
Perhaps with each new ship you guys make, you would do good, to design a new STF to go with it. There is already a wide selection of tools for same content. Why would "i" want a new ship, for a same mission, then i have another 60 of them, to do the same thing just as effectively ?
Better yet, update the engine, make the game look more like 2015. Upgraded engine, will not only improve the looks of the game, but almost certainly provide new ways to expand the game, and keep it interesting; Simply improving and updating the engine, will open opportunities, which otherwise don't exist.
Comments
m with cuchulainn... It's also possible Cryptic did it to test and see how much people wanted a Jupiter-style design. It's hard to determine from reading the forum how many people would actually be willing to use one.
My character Tsin'xing
Guys.
If the dev team wanted to ask people their thoughts on a Jupiter class redesign, they would have simply done so.
For you to pawn off your hurt feelings at the outcome of the contest on a completely baseless conspiracy is incredibly insensitive to the work the devs and Trendy had/have put into this event.
I can't imagine that Omega was overly popular with the dev team anyways. Historically speaking, a lot of people on the team have actually detested the Jupiter class, and for quite a long time resisted considering updating the ship and revamping it for the playerbase to use.
They would not have concocted an elaborate plot to cover the (tenuous) fact that they had finally reversed their decision on the matter.
As it stands, it is far more likely they added in a design based off the Jupiter as a bone tossed to its loyal fans in the playerbase, and more than likely didn't expect the overwhelming support the ship drew.
But here we are anyways. Was it a foregone conclusion that a design inspired by the Jupiter was going to win? No of course not. Look at how close voting was in the final stretch. The Omega won by only a few hundred votes.
But it was probably the only design in the running that already had a following devoted to it before the contest was even a thing. Which obviously helped it secure the win in the end.
Just me, hoping
When you look at the Breen ships, the Sarr Theln carrier can launch the Plesh Brek escorts as well.
But yeah a heavy assault fighter would be an interesting alternative too
-
"To boldly go to the stars on the wings of the faithful."
Maybe a Not!Valkyrie-class fighter using the Peregrine as a base.
Oooh shiny O.O Bring it on!
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"To boldly go to the stars on the wings of the faithful."
I simply voted Omega because I like it. Didn't even realise it had Jupiter influences.
Besides, I strongly dislike the Jupiter in the first place.
My character Tsin'xing
The devs have already admitted that the Omega design was created with heavy cues from the Jupiter class.
The Jupiter class NPC ship has had a long-standing base of players dedicated to seeing the ship available for the playerbase in some way.
So, while some of the other entrants may have elements inspired by more recognizable Trek ships, only the Omega was designed to be more-or-less a successor to an older NPC ship.
As far as the question about if it was sci oriented or not, that's a big deflector for a non-science ship. At first i was wondering if that was a 3rd fighter bay. But this rendering clearly shows it being a deflector dish. Not saying it's impossable to be something else. However, i'd also like to go back to the 3D drawing and point out that cresent light that looks like another deflector dish. Though if that were the case, it would be the first carrier to come with one...
So when Cryptic, when do you want my Zen?
"Sooner than you think" was Salami Inferno's answer. So I guess it's going to arrive next thursday. The dev blog about the developpment of the Omega probably was the first of many. I hope it comes with unique hangar pets.
"No matter where you go, there you are."
"I found a bug in Beta, Cryptic squished it. STO Founder and Proud LTS member."
Wait? WHAT?
@PWE design teams for the new ship...
One Jupiter was bad enough; just call it either the Omega class or simply it's type: the Dreadnaught Carrier.
Fixed it for you.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
I'm sure someone already pointed this out (too lazy and stupid to read through the thread) but she appears to be named U.S.S. Jupiter.
I'm sorry to people who I, in the past, insulted, annoyed, etc.
Mr. Spock: And the ways our differences combine, to create meaning and beauty.
-Star Trek: Is There in Truth No Beauty? (1968)
Also, given that the Klingons can deploy BoPs from their carriers, perhaps its time to either introduce the Saber class as a launchable hangar item, or else convert the Aquarius destroyer into a hangar pet.
I too would like to see some customization of the Omega even if those alternatives don't come from losing models. One thing I dislike about the Odyssey is its lack of customization (yes I get that it was based on a person's winning entry... but Cryptic changed it enough through the creative process to, I think, allow for flexibility on the part of the fanbase).
I support the Star Trek Battles channel.
You mean you want customization options? Me, too.
With any luck, it will be a 3-pack perhaps? (Unless they do it like the Oddy 3-pack, then it's no luck, just expensive.)
You know with the specializations... one of these days they are probably going to offer bigger packs with more diverse options. (Tac, Tac/Com, Tac/Int, Tac/Pil, Eng, Eng/Com, Eng/Int, Eng/Pil, Sci, Sci/Com, Sci/Int, Sci,Pil). Just think... you could get a vanilla pack (Tac/Eng/Sci), a Tac pack (Tac & Tac specialist bundle), Eng pack, Sci Pack, Specialist variant packs. They could come at you from every angle and they could do something scary like they did with the Dyson Science Destroyers and make certain perks only be attainable if you bought every single one. And then you get into the very scary territory of not just a 12 pack for one faction.... but a 36 pack of all variants and faction versions of the same ship.
Yeah I know I'm making it sound ridiculously scary but... what if?
Maybe I shouldn't farm the idea out and inspire people eh?
Perhaps with each new ship you guys make, you would do good, to design a new STF to go with it. There is already a wide selection of tools for same content. Why would "i" want a new ship, for a same mission, then i have another 60 of them, to do the same thing just as effectively ?
Better yet, update the engine, make the game look more like 2015. Upgraded engine, will not only improve the looks of the game, but almost certainly provide new ways to expand the game, and keep it interesting; Simply improving and updating the engine, will open opportunities, which otherwise don't exist.