With all of that said, I get it, you think they should have done something different, and that's cool. you're entitled to your opinion. The fact that you've went on to call it lazy and saying that this whole thing could have been avoided had they just made hybrids, still to me demonstrates self-entitlement. You are not owed it to not have your immersion broken.
Besides, flying a hybrid ship is not the same as flying the real deal. Just like using the Assimilated set on a Defiant is not the same as flying a real Borg Sphere or Cube.
I am pretty sure that particularly the lockbox ships exist to give you the "real deal". Cool ships that other factions use, now made available for your own, personal use. There isn't really anything lazy about it - creating a different ship model wouldn't give that experience.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
With all of that said, I get it, you think they should have done something different, and that's cool. you're entitled to your opinion. The fact that you've went on to call it lazy and saying that this whole thing could have been avoided had they just made hybrids, still to me demonstrates self-entitlement. You are not owed it to not have your immersion broken.
Besides, flying a hybrid ship is not the same as flying the real deal. Just like using the Assimilated set on a Defiant is not the same as flying a real Borg Sphere or Cube.
I am pretty sure that particularly the lockbox ships exist to give you the "real deal". Cool ships that other factions use, now made available for your own, personal use. There isn't really anything lazy about it - creating a different ship model wouldn't give that experience.
exactly. i've wanted to get behind the controls of an Iconian ship since I first heard about them in TNG. honestly who hasn't wanted to know about them. the OP is entitled to his opinion, but I honestly think he's just been overreacting to this whole deal. I personally would rather have the full on Herald ships than a pseudo version of the ship myself. makes perfect sense to me as to why we have them now, just like the Jem'hadar ships.
"Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations
Cryptic mind as well release the Borg lockbox now. If we can salvage Iconian tech, why not Borg tech?
I suppose the sole objection now is that Herald tech is not likely to multiply out of control and steal your free will on the slightest misstep (we seem to be much better able to counter Iconian viral probes than in TNG days).
Yes. Between the space wizards and the space zombies, I'd pick wizard tech, too. It may be weird, but it's significantly less likely to eat you.
and how many PCs have been lost to their Tal Shiar Adapted ships? Id say the method has been proven safe by now
There was even a point (Butterfly episode) made that merely delaying the Iconian assault for a while could allow us to beat them - because their technology did not advance anywhere as fast as ours. (They had 200,000 years to build their forces, and we already had ships capable of engaging theirs in toe-to-toe combat after mere 300 years of warp flight.)
If by "engaging toe-to-toe" you mean "curbstomping into next week," then yes.
The problem was mission script saying "they're too powerful we have to retreat" after we're done with said curbstomping.
I think the Iconian War handled that overall better than the Jem'Hadar/Dominion arc. When the Jem'Hadar fleet came through the wormhole to attack DS9, not only did I curbstomp them, there was nowhere a sign of urgency in the game.
During the Iconian War, they had background canvas showing lots of ships and even untargetable fleets engaged in combat. And the fleet that headed towards the Herald Sphere was decidedly larger than the ship that got back. And I did miss part of the space combat because I was boarding an Iconian flagship - so I probably missed a lot of the counter-curbstomping.
And overall, in the Iconian War I knew that my personal fight might be going well -but I can't be everywhere. But the Iconians can be.
True, but that then highlights the incredible power discrepancy between U.S.S. Player Character and every other ship out there. There is no plausible explanation for how the player can casually lay waste to entire fleets of Heralds while everone else dies (off-screen).
anyway, either the undine ships, the voth ships, the herald ships; the whiners who blow their noses with banknotes, always win. Any other consideration is never taken into account, whether in this game or in real life.
this is why I'm sure that the Cooperative ships will be available, and also the Original Borg.
You gave your opinion and those facts yes and i respect that... and also gave an opinion on made up words, that didnt come from me... It does make you hypocrite first calling one self-entitled and then proceed to be just the same in your post. You see it as an issue, but I don't. You can say all day long that you didn't bash on the ships but you did even if you didn't come out and say it. You see? what i mean about making up words...so you somehow know what i think and mean even if i didnt write and i myself dont know it...this just makes you loose respect...how can i take your post seriously or even correctly reply to your post if you make words up...and its disrespectful to me calling something out on me while its not in my post..again your are doing the same stuff, making up words and then replying to them.
Cryptic could make every ship a hybrid from now until the end of time, but the fact is they're not going to do that. Not every ship needs to be a hybrid nor should it be I agree so please show me my post which states they should make only hybrids from now on.... And bashing the admirality system with these words OUCH ADMIRALITY SYSTEM..wow this must be a new record for bashing in such few words i am proud of myself. And something else, critics and reviewers criticize or bash a game even after it may get patches or dlc or expansion, those are either looked at sepertly or in a new review for the entire collection . By your logic when the admirality system comes out a person who would criticize it would be in the wrong beacuse...cryptic may expand it...you are so wrong. Its completely normal to either bash or criticize the current system that is available or in construction, until ofc changes come and if they come. By your logic there wouldnt be any reviews, critics until the game is fully finished with all patches, all expansions and dlc and when the producer says that this is the final product...no it doesnt run like that in this world..unless you are from an alternate reality... Considering you know so much of the process of making new ship models and cryptic as whole in your objective please do state some facts to me and the curious rest about their processes, how many people are working on models, how are they designing new ships, available resources cryptic can muster for making new ships, their thought process, how many people are working on different ships and parts of the game, crpytics income from STO...if not i stand by my as you say baseless post about making new models...
While those races you mentioned can be classified as major race they come no where near iconian level in terms of story in this game. Crpytic crafted iconians purposefully through multiple story arc, making them look like the biggest baddest meanest threat. That was all done by cryptic so they can do a full reverse in midnight on their race. So in this game they are the alpha major race of antagonist hence the biggest impact on me. Also i dont totally agree with your post that the immersion is 100% subjective, while it is the majority, carefully crafting and making story in the star trek mythos by the developers does help or enchance your immersion, by how much depends on the person really. I know that they are folks here who will envoy the ships..they replied to me and i to them...nowhere did i deny them that pleasure...
First off you bashed the devs in your original post in this thread because they used the actual Herald ships instead of Herald inspired Fed KDF and Romulan ships. You called them lazy because they didn't make the ships as hybrids and so on. In other words because they didn't do it the way YOU think it should have been done you call them lazy. Now when I've called shenanigans on that logic and pointed out that logic for being self-entitled, you've been trying to back peddle ever since. In your first post to me you say "Herald ships are coming that a fact to me... i am not trying to remove them however we could have gotten something completely different and more story related like hybrids but whatever." Those are you own words where once again you bash on us having not gotten hybrids. The fact is there is a ton of different candidates they could have given at any point during the game, such as the Undine dreadnaught with the Undine box, the Sheshar Dread could have been a lockbox ship but was made into a promo, and they could have made hybrids of Iconian and Alliance design. Also in your first post to me you assumed that simply because some indie-games made new models for their games that this means Crytpic should have to do it each time as well. What one game chooses to do, does NOT mean that another game must do the same thing. Bottom line, could they have made all new models and so on, yes they could have. The truth is though that they chose to use the actual Herald ships and you need to just get over it because it's not going to change now.
For the Admirality system I criticized your point on that because you're equating that as being the only thing we're getting exploration wise when you clearly can't know that. You bashed the Admirality system based on something that you assumed (it's the only exploration we get) and have no evidence to prove. To even equate my criticism of your Admirality comments as meaning that you wouldn't be able to criticize a game at all you're really grasping at straws. You can criticize something you don't like about Admirality and even the system itself all day long. However when you bash it in the manor you did by assuming it's all we're getting for exploration, when you know good and well that's never been said, you lose credibility and makes it look like you just want something to complain about. Also, nowhere anywhere have I said I know everything that goes on at Cryptic or even remotely on those lines. Now you are grasping at straws with that comment line. No I don't know everything that they do behind the scenes (which is quite alot) nor have I claimed to. However I have created several mods throughout my gaming career which includes full on missions, and maps, several of which were recommended by the companies themselves that made the games. I also have essentially modified an older Star Trek rts and rebalanced it, added new factions to it, and even have been working on my own custom faction for the game for several years now. No I don't know everything that goes on behind the scenes at Cryptic nor have I claimed to. No I haven't worked on anything as major as a mmo like this game, but I know a bit about what goes on behind the scenes of a game that makes it tic and more experience with it than you think I do.
Part of immersion and watching movies, playing games, and so on is the ability to suspend unbelief. In other words, can you look at something and hear the story behind it and believe it is what they say it is, such as an alien on screen, even if you can clearly see the actor/actress features. Can you in an instance like that believe they're supposed to be an alien? The more you can suspend your own unbelief, the more into the story you can get. Simply because a power such as the Dominion, Vaadwaur, Elachi, or other such power doesn't get much attention story wise, does not mean they're any less of a major power. For example we've had no attention given to the Kelvins from the Andromeda galaxy yet we know they're a major power that has interacted with us before.
This is where we get into the realm of opinion and you can't prove or disprove anything as it has no logical base. You say to you that the way the final episode Midnight made them less mean, threatening and so on. That's your prerogative if you feel that way. The Iconians were no less of a threat simply because now we knew the reason behind why they're the way they are. Immersion is indeed 100% on the person whether you choose to acknowledge it or not. You say you don't agree with that and the devs can add in things to assist with immersion. Yet you contradict that when you say "by how much depends on the person really." What you fail to see is what you consider immersive and what someone else considers immersive may be 2 completely different things. For example I consider Admirality as something that gets me more immersed in the fact that I actually am a fleet admiral in terms of game rank. You on the other hand may not consider it as such. Thus it's 100% subjective. Immersion by nature is also how well one can integrate themselves into the story of what's going on. Simply because you may not be able to immerse yourself because of something doesn't mean there is on one out there who can't. I myself could not get into the Twilight movies and books. I thought they were very cheesy and poorly written and were an insult to the classics like Brom Stoker's Dracula. Obviously there were people who disagree with me and could get into the story. Thus what ruined immersion for me in the case of Twilight did not ruin it for everyone else. immersion is what you make of it, nothing more, nothing less.
Something as subjective as immersion is not a valid point to bring up in a debate as you have. You bashing the ships and the devs is based on personal opinion only. I also noticed by reading some of the other posts in here that I'm not the only one who has criticized your logic on these things. I'm not the only one who has called out your logic of just NOW speaking up and just NOW having an issue with the Iconian ships, but not the other major powers we have access to such as the Undine. No matter how you look at it and if you choose to acknowledge it or not, you have a huge double standard here.
With all of that said, I get it, you think they should have done something different, and that's cool. you're entitled to your opinion. The fact that you've went on to call it lazy and saying that this whole thing could have been avoided had they just made hybrids, still to me demonstrates self-entitlement. You are not owed it to not have your immersion broken. You also do not have a right to not be offended or what have you, but someone flying a ship you don't like. I and others do not play this game for you, nor do we or cryptic owe it to you to do things the way YOU think they should have been done. bashing the devs because they didn't give you the hybrids you wanted and calling them lazy, I'm sorry (not really), is self entitled thinking.
You can deny and try to back peddle all you wish as you've tried to do, but it makes no difference. your words are there in black and white for people to read. if you try to edit the posts to say something else it's going to show up and people will know you tried to change it. bottom line, they didn't do it the way you wanted and you called them lazy. they're not going to change their minds now, so as I said above, you need to get over it and move on. you might convince them to do more ships in the future, but right now this is what you have to work with.
I am sorry but i just cant respond to this post correctly, again you made so many things up that aren't mentioned in my posts that there is no constructive point for me to articulate further as you just make stuff up for the 3rd time in our discussion. People will see the original posts yes and also will see your claims which are made of thin air, relative to my posts as the majority of your replies talk about things that are not mentioned in any of my posts. I see that your post reflect a particular setup of trying to be rude especially with this words: I and others do not play this game for you, nor do we or cryptic owe it to you to do things the way YOU think they should have been done. Again where are my words telling people how they should play lets articulate further, this is one of my posts:
gulberat wrote: »
For me, when I play any toon, I tend to ignore the existence of other toons for story purposes, so yes, there's a lot of mess around spacedock and I'm sure some people get mad when I pull up in my Dromias, but the way I think, each of us have our own little "reality bubble." We're each our own little universe. I treat it a bit similarly when I write fanfic...though actually, with the toon that has the Dromias, in my story, he still officially flies a Prometheus-class ship and does not exactly captain the Dromias. (The reason I fly the Dromias in game is because unlike most people here, I suck at flying escorts. Badly. I rigged the Dromias into a quasi-sci, and I'm a lot happier with it than the Prometheus.)
Now, when it comes to immersion, my Cardassian has a Galor but as far as I'm concerned, because he's a dual-commissioned exchange officer, he has EVERY possible excuse to have access to that ship. It will be the same if a Cardassian uniform ever comes out...he has every right to that uniform.
True, immersion really does depend on the player and his view, so to each their own i guess and if your dromias suits your play style who am i to argue against it
That just one of the examples of my post that denies your made up claims...
You are correct everything is on black and white paper so people can see your made up stuff and i am happy about that. My posts will stay unchanged and people can clearly see your made majority up stuff and then replied to it...This is my last response to you as i cant reply to a person who makes stuff up to use in his own argument its like playing against a cheater..i will take some of your post that were in right place in mind though, and i would be happy if any commentators look at our comments and tell us not who is right but if they see many of your claims made up relating to my posts or if they actually see those claims written in my post.
anyway, either the undine ships, the voth ships, the herald ships; the whiners who blow their noses with banknotes, always win. Any other consideration is never taken into account, whether in this game or in real life.
this is why I'm sure that the Cooperative ships will be available, and also the Original Borg.
This is uncalled for, labeling everyone who flies a ship you don't like as some sort of horrible person. Not to mention, you have no idea if someone ground for months and didn't spend a cent to earn their ship. I would suggest you retract this kind of broadbrushing assumption.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-) Proudly F2P.Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
anyway, either the undine ships, the voth ships, the herald ships; the whiners who blow their noses with banknotes, always win. Any other consideration is never taken into account, whether in this game or in real life.
this is why I'm sure that the Cooperative ships will be available, and also the Original Borg.
Maybe 29th Century Borg will turn up in fancy new ships, make traditional Cubes and Sphere obsolete and then we can have them, without there being an issue.
Yeah, it is kind of sad. Makes STO feel more an more like an arcade game than ever. It would have been better to include the tech rather than the actual ships. Much like they did with the Voth ships. That made more sense.
And THIS my friends, is a sensible answer. Stick with Tech, let faction ships get mutated, modified even with parts and visual enhancements (not just skins) reminiscent of the various races (Voth, Undine, Iconian, etc etc). Instead of a Voth ship, how about special "Voth Nacelles" (lockbox item) that you could use instead? Just an example.
I dunno, daring to change the looks of iconic ships usually lands them in even more hot water than it does offering alien hardware.
Remember the fuss over that T6 Excelsior cruiser - even though the original skin was still an option plenty of people shed tears over it's facelift.
Well that's just it - the visuals can be hidden like most ship items. So, just say you get "Voth Special Transwarp Nacelles" from a lockbox...you can mount them if you desire but keep the visuals of your standard nacelles. It in effect, locks the power and the visualization with it. I mean, making engines that could work with most models may be easier than just making an entire ship from scratch? But then again, all they do is copypasta NPC ships, so I suppose not....
anyway, either the undine ships, the voth ships, the herald ships; the whiners who blow their noses with banknotes, always win. Any other consideration is never taken into account, whether in this game or in real life.
this is why I'm sure that the Cooperative ships will be available, and also the Original Borg.
This is uncalled for, labeling everyone who flies a ship you don't like as some sort of horrible person. Not to mention, you have no idea if someone ground for months and didn't spend a cent to earn their ship. I would suggest you retract this kind of broadbrushing assumption.
why i should retract what i have said?
nobody has asked for these ships? And why cryptic "gives" these ships to the players? not because they are friendly but because a lof of people want these ships, and like these ships are not free, bingo. And if the herald ships hadn't been available, Cryptic would have been overwhelmed with requests
And sorry but the world is like that: "shut up take my money, and leave me doing what I want". Ask to the german hunter who have killed a 50 years old elephant in a protected zone, if i'm wrong.
I don't blame Cryptic, I blame the people who cares about nothing, as long as their desires are satisfied.
btw, the problem is not the ships ( i don't care), the problem is that the story is not followed, ships or stuff which shouldn't be available to the players, are finally given: and just for 1 reason. The mentality behind all of that, is just
exasperating.
Like I wrote, I have myself lockbox ships, but these ships and some others don't damage the story, and are useable by humans, klingons, vulcans etc.
I was hoping you might find a more tactful way to express your opinion about the ships you don't like. It's your opinion that some things are impossible but it is solely your opinion, no more.
Now personally, I go to a great deal of trouble in the case of my two characters with a non-faction ship, to explain how they came into the possession of that ship. And for the one who has an Undine ship, I have a detailed story that I spent a lot of time writing, that includes how he came by that ship, how he got the environment set correctly for him, how he got it to respond to him. (Hint: See my signature for that toon--he has abilities a normal humanoid does not, and no, the ship would not have responded to the majority of Starfleet officers in my personal headcanon.) Heck, just standing on the bridge of that ship was enough to inspire me to work on that story.
BUT. Although I stand by my work sufficiently to invite anyone to read it, on general principle I do not have to submit it to anyone for a grade in order to get some sort of permission token to play the way I want to play. Nor does anyone.
I may write stories but I do not expect the same from others...they are free IMO to choose any ship they want without any other reason beyond liking something. I am not going to ask anyone else to submit to my approval. It is not some sort of attack against me, it is not some sort of character fault on someone's part, if they buy something I would not. And it IS entirely within my ability to ignore what I don't like (T6 Intel ships--ouch, my eyes! ) and just pretend it isn't even there. It isn't worth criticizing other players.
If you do not approve of Cryptic's practices or storywriting, there are two choices you may wish to consider. One is to stop putting money into the game and continue playing--while treating fellow players with respect--knowing there will be things you do not like (my choice, for different reasons than yours). The other is to not play if you find it so upsetting that you can't be in that environment anymore.
Anyway, I think that about sums up all I have to say on the subject...I don't see a need to restate it again after this.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-) Proudly F2P.Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
this is why I'm sure that the Cooperative ships will be available, and also the Original Borg.
Original Borg is straight-up against their contract with CBS. However, Geko DID say he could and would like to make a Cooperative Mini-Faction (smaller than the Romulan Mini-Faction) at some point. Probably as a Lifer-exclusive thing.
Isn't it just wonderful? We'll be able to get Cooperative Cubes, Spheres, and Probes someday!
All the "it's just a game" 'arguments' don't really make a lot of sense to me; nor does it seem to add much substance at all to the conversation. Yes, it's a game, but more precisely, it's a Star Trek game, with a specific context and set of circumstances. Players are occupying a specific world with specific rules that define it, and they are a part of specifically defined organizations within that world.
Artistic license is one than, but just because "it's only a game" doesn't excuse flagrant, nonsensical departures from the theme, setting, tradition, and integrity of that game's foundation, and basis. Each lockbox seems to chip away at that foundation more, and more. Eventually, at this rate, it will be "just another game" as opposed to a recognizable Star Trek game. Similarly, just because say... Dragon Age is "just a game," saying this wouldn't excuse the inclusion of say... starships in that game.
These aren't simply "hybrid" ships, except perhaps in name only. This hybrid nonsense isn't even plausible. It would make more sense to say these were stolen, or salvaged, like the Jem Hadar ship from the DS9 series (which was only used once, and wasn't exactly a great fit even when it was used)--at least the television had some sense of integrity. They're the exact same designs as the original ships with no representation for the factions that have supposedly put them together, and are going to be flying them around. The Federation, Klingons, and Romulans all have recognizable, characteristic qualities of their ship design which are all entirely disregarded and absent from these alleged hybrid lockbox ships. The Federation would take an existing Federation ship and retrofit it with RE'd Herald tech if they were going to do that at all, for instance. Again, looking back to DS9, plugging Romulan cloak tech into a Federation design didn't require the Feds to build a Romulan ship. They would start with what they know--what they're used to, and have perfected--and build and adapt from there. The end result would still be recognizable as a Federation vessel.
And it's not as if there are no other alternatives that could achieve the same results from a business and development standpoint without sacrificing the IP and integrity of the game in the process. Borg gear visuals provide a great example of how a ship can be altered to represent this idea of RE'd alien technology without the expectation of a massive suspension of disbelief that compromises the integrity of the core of the IP.
All the "it's just a game" 'arguments' don't really make a lot of sense to me; nor does it seem to add much substance at all to the conversation. Yes, it's a game, but more precisely, it's a Star Trek game, with a specific context and set of circumstances. Players are occupying a specific world with specific rules that define it, and they are a part of specifically defined organizations within that world.
Artistic license is one than, but just because "it's only a game" doesn't excuse flagrant, nonsensical departures from the theme, setting, tradition, and integrity of that game's foundation, and basis. Each lockbox seems to chip away at that foundation more, and more. Eventually, at this rate, it will be "just another game" as opposed to a recognizable Star Trek game. Similarly, just because say... Dragon Age is "just a game," saying this wouldn't excuse the inclusion of say... starships in that game.
These aren't simply "hybrid" ships, except perhaps in name only. This hybrid nonsense isn't even plausible. It would make more sense to say these were stolen, or salvaged, like the Jem Hadar ship from the DS9 series (which was only used once, and wasn't exactly a great fit even when it was used)--at least the television had some sense of integrity. They're the exact same designs as the original ships with no representation for the factions that have supposedly put them together, and are going to be flying them around. The Federation, Klingons, and Romulans all have recognizable, characteristic qualities of their ship design which are all entirely disregarded and absent from these alleged hybrid lockbox ships. The Federation would take an existing Federation ship and retrofit it with RE'd Herald tech if they were going to do that at all, for instance. Again, looking back to DS9, plugging Romulan cloak tech into a Federation design didn't require the Feds to build a Romulan ship. They would start with what they know--what they're used to, and have perfected--and build and adapt from there. The end result would still be recognizable as a Federation vessel.
And it's not as if there are no other alternatives that could achieve the same results from a business and development standpoint without sacrificing the IP and integrity of the game in the process. Borg gear visuals provide a great example of how a ship can be altered to represent this idea of RE'd alien technology without the expectation of a massive suspension of disbelief that compromises the integrity of the core of the IP.
what about the setting never even implied this couldn't happen or unlikely to, and that in some fanboy/fangirl's fanfiction shockingly enough doesn't count. and people always saying X is against the one true way of treky trek of trekdom is the thing that generally theatens to damage the IP. since they clearly no clue about the IP they are so valiantly protect from... hell if I know. more so when feds using alien ships has happened in canon.
oh and comparing starship in a game about in part about starships to starships in a medieval fantasy game... if I have to explain just how dumb that is just put me on ignore and save us both alot problems
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
I don't have so much a sense of an issue of flying Herald ships per se if they were nerfed to hell, but it opens up a huge can of worms to say... the Alpha Quadrant alliance now has access to Iconian Technology... that is a huge TRIBBLE deal. We should be steamrolling everybody we meet for centuries to come.
I don't have so much a sense of an issue of flying Herald ships per se if they were nerfed to hell, but it opens up a huge can of worms to say... the Alpha Quadrant alliance now has access to Iconian Technology... that is a huge TRIBBLE deal. We should be steamrolling everybody we meet for centuries to come.
welll good/bad news lockbox are in universe re build wrecks so it's likely they are nerfed but we probably didn't get the good stuff.. we got that with the dyson rep.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
All the "it's just a game" 'arguments' don't really make a lot of sense to me; nor does it seem to add much substance at all to the conversation. Yes, it's a game, but more precisely, it's a Star Trek game, with a specific context and set of circumstances. Players are occupying a specific world with specific rules that define it, and they are a part of specifically defined organizations within that world.
Artistic license is one than, but just because "it's only a game" doesn't excuse flagrant, nonsensical departures from the theme, setting, tradition, and integrity of that game's foundation, and basis. Each lockbox seems to chip away at that foundation more, and more. Eventually, at this rate, it will be "just another game" as opposed to a recognizable Star Trek game. Similarly, just because say... Dragon Age is "just a game," saying this wouldn't excuse the inclusion of say... starships in that game.
These aren't simply "hybrid" ships, except perhaps in name only. This hybrid nonsense isn't even plausible. It would make more sense to say these were stolen, or salvaged, like the Jem Hadar ship from the DS9 series (which was only used once, and wasn't exactly a great fit even when it was used)--at least the television had some sense of integrity. They're the exact same designs as the original ships with no representation for the factions that have supposedly put them together, and are going to be flying them around. The Federation, Klingons, and Romulans all have recognizable, characteristic qualities of their ship design which are all entirely disregarded and absent from these alleged hybrid lockbox ships. The Federation would take an existing Federation ship and retrofit it with RE'd Herald tech if they were going to do that at all, for instance. Again, looking back to DS9, plugging Romulan cloak tech into a Federation design didn't require the Feds to build a Romulan ship. They would start with what they know--what they're used to, and have perfected--and build and adapt from there. The end result would still be recognizable as a Federation vessel.
And it's not as if there are no other alternatives that could achieve the same results from a business and development standpoint without sacrificing the IP and integrity of the game in the process. Borg gear visuals provide a great example of how a ship can be altered to represent this idea of RE'd alien technology without the expectation of a massive suspension of disbelief that compromises the integrity of the core of the IP.
The theme is achieved by these ships being based on a culture that was mentioned in Star Trek. It's not a Millenium Falcon or a Mon Calamari Cruiser.
Flying a Herald ship can easily be explained as being a captured or abandoned ship that was repaired and refitted for your use. You, as the unique special Admiral that you are with your unique history with the Iconians, have been given this ship as a command.
Kirk flew a Bird of Prey for a whole movie, Sisko commanded a Jem'Hadar ship for a mission, Dukat commanded a Bird of Prey. People flying ships not part of their faction for special operations or due to necessity is not unheard of.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
I can understand that seeing a bunch of friendly Vonph around ESD, or worse Qo'nos (Much worse if you take the fact that to keep the pve queue up they are still under siege by T'ket.) is just wrong with how the end of the war was written. L'miren is a nice person, but it's not like the Iconians were just going to join hands with the other galatic civilizations and send scouts on diplomatic missions in numbers that would equal the amount of ships we will see.
So the herald ships fill that same odd category as the Romulan Adapted ships. To my understanding they were only ever the main flagship of Hakeev, so there should only be one, and it is built from the bits of the lone example we blew up.
We don't happen to have a toggle to stop the game from rendering out of place ships, so for the moment I can only ask that people enjoy the art that went into the Iconian ship designs. It won't be long before most of them are gone, and replaced by tier 6 scimitars, or temporal dreadnoughts.
I am sorry but i just cant respond to this post correctly, again you made so many things up that aren't mentioned in my posts that there is no constructive point for me to articulate further as you just make stuff up for the 3rd time in our discussion. People will see the original posts yes and also will see your claims which are made of thin air, relative to my posts as the majority of your replies talk about things that are not mentioned in any of my posts. I see that your post reflect a particular setup of trying to be rude especially with this words: I and others do not play this game for you, nor do we or cryptic owe it to you to do things the way YOU think they should have been done. Again where are my words telling people how they should play lets articulate further, this is one of my posts:
That just one of the examples of my post that denies your made up claims...
You are correct everything is on black and white paper so people can see your made up stuff and i am happy about that. My posts will stay unchanged and people can clearly see your made majority up stuff and then replied to it...This is my last response to you as i cant reply to a person who makes stuff up to use in his own argument its like playing against a cheater..i will take some of your post that were in right place in mind though, and i would be happy if any commentators look at our comments and tell us not who is right but if they see many of your claims made up relating to my posts or if they actually see those claims written in my post.
When you make the statement that the devs are lazy because they just "tweaked existing models and viola new ships" or something to that effect, what else could it possibly mean other than you think the devs are lazy. You can say all day long that I'm "making stuff up" but the more you do this the more you prove to just be in denial as you have with other people throughout this thread. What of the others who have called out your flawed logic? Are you going to accuse them of making things up as well? As I've tried to get you to do, please elaborate on what you think I've made up. You keep saying that's what I've done yet have presented no examples of anything.
Sad thing is this could have been easily avoided, instead of exact looking ships we could have gotten 3 ships... an escort a sci ship and a cruiser or dreadnought or carrier that has the look of the alliance (fed, kling and rom) combined with some herald designs. But we all know why we got same ships, because they were already in game just some tweaking to the already existing models and voila new ships to sell...What does that spell for us if the developer is that lazy...bad things ? (ADMIRALTY SYSTEM...OUCH) for the future content that emphasizes on exploration...WELL I HOPE NOT.
You bash the devs in the above paragraph I quoted because they gave us the actual Herald ships instead of designing new ships based off the Herald models, yet somehow I'm the rude one. Sorry dude but thinking like this wreaks of entitlement.
But now we get this...Hey Johny lets play the iconian arc you know the story cryptic has been preparing us for 5 years almost all mission leading to this moment. Sure says Johny let me bring my Herald Quas Flight Deck Cruiser or my Herald Baltim Heavy Raider or my Herald Vonph Dreadnought Carrier....WAIT WHAT ? You just thrown the mystery, the fear and the soul of iconians and herlads down the toilet. Now they are just some generic cookie cutter enemy, everyone can fly their ships now...even a drunk klingon who had to much blood wine can.
As I've said in my previous posts, arguments you make like this are completely subjective and 100% based on the user. Arguments such as this can't be proven or disproven as they're not based in logic or on a sound testable base. You assume that simply because for you it throws everything down the toilet by allowing player controlled Herald ships, that everyone feels the same way when that's just not so. You may feel that they're just some cookie cutter enemy with this addition and that's perfectly fine if you do. If for example I play through the Dominion/cardassian based episodes, even if I'm in my Jem'hadar Dread it doesn't make the Dominion feel any less threatening or cookie cutter to me. I simply spin it as having taken one of their own ships and turned it back against them. Just because I have access to the same tech as an enemy I'm fighting doesn't make them any less threatening or somehow cookie cutter. One example being our prime universe ships and the terran empire ships. There's very little difference for example between a prime universe (ours) Sovereign class and mirror Sovereign (theirs). By the logic you've employed this makes the Terran Empire just a cookie cutter enemy because we have access to the same tech as them, which again is purely a subjective argument on your part. There are plenty of ways you can spin this to make it work.
So the next lock box ships are herald ones. Now to get something straight from the beginning i am totally fine with them being lock box ships. Cryptic needs to earn some money....sad truth is this game currently only stands because of the massive new ship spam sales else it would slowly decay... The thing is this new herald ships break the immersion, break the story and feel of star trek. Some say that already happened when you could fly undine and tholian ship...eh not really while totally alien to the alliance it wasn't so crowded with exotic ships and we could argue that iconians with heralds play a pivotal role in STO so these new ships have a bigger impact.
We all know Cryptic needs to earn money and that much was never being debated. The rest of your argument in this paragraph is purely subjective. As I've said before, simply because it breaks the immersion for you, does not make it so for everyone else. As I said above and previously, there are a ton of different ways you can spin the Herald ships to make them work. In fact the way we obtained the Dominion ships players fly were by finding them adrift and getting them rolling again after the Dominion didn't want them back. We also found the Temporal Science and Temporal Destroyer adrift after having been stripped down by the Tholians and others. For immersion purposes I assume that the other players I see in game are just random captains passing through the area. Aside from this unless we're teamed to do a mission, or run an STF, I assume they don't exist.
You could say ahhh this is nothing, it doesn't matter at all, but lets think deeper, a lot deeper..... You sure can like both space and ground combat like me but let me throw you out something, there are single and multi player games which have superior combat out there....but HEY ! why are you playing this game then...Simple because it has the star trek feel, the star trek mythos...flying iconic ships, relive the moments similar to the series.....And this lock box thing doesn't help that really. Whats next...a playable Vger...borg lock box.....OW NO. Imagine a scenario were an enlightened, kind federation captain (we will call him Johny again), flies to a colony in need of some supplies....IN A BORG CUBE causing a mass hysteria on the colony and he beams down and says, relax guys its just my new RAD cube check it out its shiny.... Hey Steven beam down the supplies... and then 50 borg drones materialize and star to asimilate the planet...ooops sorry captain wrong cargo...but hey we still got our RAD CUBE..whatever.
A Borg cube controlled by players would actually make sense if/when it were ever to be introduced because in the lore we have the Borg Cooperative. They are just one of several factions of Borg that broke free from the collective. If the introduction of the Tholian Recluse, Undine Dromias, and similar ships didn't bother you then why speak up now of all times? Like it or not this is a legitimate question to ask. All of this entire thread has been based on immersion which is completely subjective to start with. Since the Dromias is a bioship and can be considered alive, I consider it as a creature that agreed to work with us instead of fighting against us, much how the dreadnaught that helped Cooper refused to invade the galaxy. If you have a good enough imagination you can make most anything work in the story. The Recluse I consider as something was taken from disabled or captured Tholian ships. There's always been an infinite array and combination of looks and configurations ships can have in Star Trek. Don't limit yourself to just one specific set of looks and say anything beyond x could never be Trek.
Overall your entire argument has been subjective. When you call the devs lazy and say that this whole mess could have been avoided had they made Herald inspired ships and other arguments like that, how are you not trying to restrict player choice? How are you not being rude to the devs? Even further I must ask, why speak up now if the Dromias of all things didn't bother you being in player hands? I find it ridiculous that I had to go through such lengths and great detail to demonstrate these points to you. Not only myself but others as well. Simply saying that "you make things up" is not a legitimate defense and is simply employing a tactic used by politicians. If pointing out the flaws in your logic and calling them out means that I'm "making things up and I'm like a cheater" then so be it.
"Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations
All the "it's just a game" 'arguments' don't really make a lot of sense to me; nor does it seem to add much substance at all to the conversation. Yes, it's a game, but more precisely, it's a Star Trek game, with a specific context and set of circumstances. Players are occupying a specific world with specific rules that define it, and they are a part of specifically defined organizations within that world.
Artistic license is one than, but just because "it's only a game" doesn't excuse flagrant, nonsensical departures from the theme, setting, tradition, and integrity of that game's foundation, and basis. Each lockbox seems to chip away at that foundation more, and more. Eventually, at this rate, it will be "just another game" as opposed to a recognizable Star Trek game. Similarly, just because say... Dragon Age is "just a game," saying this wouldn't excuse the inclusion of say... starships in that game.
These aren't simply "hybrid" ships, except perhaps in name only. This hybrid nonsense isn't even plausible. It would make more sense to say these were stolen, or salvaged, like the Jem Hadar ship from the DS9 series (which was only used once, and wasn't exactly a great fit even when it was used)--at least the television had some sense of integrity. They're the exact same designs as the original ships with no representation for the factions that have supposedly put them together, and are going to be flying them around. The Federation, Klingons, and Romulans all have recognizable, characteristic qualities of their ship design which are all entirely disregarded and absent from these alleged hybrid lockbox ships. The Federation would take an existing Federation ship and retrofit it with RE'd Herald tech if they were going to do that at all, for instance. Again, looking back to DS9, plugging Romulan cloak tech into a Federation design didn't require the Feds to build a Romulan ship. They would start with what they know--what they're used to, and have perfected--and build and adapt from there. The end result would still be recognizable as a Federation vessel.
And it's not as if there are no other alternatives that could achieve the same results from a business and development standpoint without sacrificing the IP and integrity of the game in the process. Borg gear visuals provide a great example of how a ship can be altered to represent this idea of RE'd alien technology without the expectation of a massive suspension of disbelief that compromises the integrity of the core of the IP.
It's not a Millenium Falcon or a Mon Calamari Cruiser.
Im not reading a lot of these tl;dr posts but just my two ec.. Anybody thats played Armada knows that capturing and using enemy vessels (undine, borg, cardassian,whatever) was one of the most enjoyable and popular features of the game.. Why is this such a problem for STO outside of the fact that they are in lockboxes? Hell i used to beam over and use their own shipyards against them..
Im not reading a lot of these tl;dr posts but just my two ec.. Anybody thats played Armada knows that capturing and using enemy vessels (undine, borg, cardassian,whatever) was one of the most enjoyable and popular features of the game.. Why is this such a problem for STO outside of the fact that they are in lockboxes? Hell i used to beam over and use their own shipyards against them..
cause in any fandom they're a group of fans who have a problem things that don't fit what they want the IP to be which may or may not have anything to do the IP.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
Im not reading a lot of these tl;dr posts but just my two ec.. Anybody thats played Armada knows that capturing and using enemy vessels (undine, borg, cardassian,whatever) was one of the most enjoyable and popular features of the game.. Why is this such a problem for STO outside of the fact that they are in lockboxes? Hell i used to beam over and use their own shipyards against them..
cause in any fandom they're a group of fans who have a problem things that don't fit want they want the IP to be which may or may not have anything to do the IP.
This. It ignores the fact that Kirk flew a BOP for a whole movie or Sisko had a Jem Hadar ship for a three episode arc.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Im not reading a lot of these tl;dr posts but just my two ec.. Anybody thats played Armada knows that capturing and using enemy vessels (undine, borg, cardassian,whatever) was one of the most enjoyable and popular features of the game.. Why is this such a problem for STO outside of the fact that they are in lockboxes? Hell i used to beam over and use their own shipyards against them..
cause in any fandom they're a group of fans who have a problem things that don't fit want they want the IP to be which may or may not have anything to do the IP.
This. It ignores the fact that Kirk flew a BOP for a whole movie or Sisko had a Jem Hadar ship for a three episode arc.
Dukat also flew a BoP (not to mention he wore a Klingon baldric as a trophy). I'm not saying Dukat was doing a good thing but nothing is stopping a player from playing a similarly roguish character if they wish.
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People need to use their imaginations. If you don't want to fly a Iconian ship pretend they are something else. One of my alts hails from the reboot universe...and they fly the Oddy until (crosses fingers) the reboot universe connie makes it in the game or a ship that looks close to it
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
People need to use their imaginations. If you don't want to fly a Iconian ship pretend they are something else. One of my alts hails from the reboot universe...and they fly the Oddy until (crosses fingers) the reboot universe connie makes it in the game or a ship that looks close to it
You know, there is also one of the Intel ships that (IMO) looks like the USS Vengeance...I may not like the Intel ships, but that is certainly something that could suit your purpose.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-) Proudly F2P.Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
People need to use their imaginations. If you don't want to fly a Iconian ship pretend they are something else. One of my alts hails from the reboot universe...and they fly the Oddy until (crosses fingers) the reboot universe connie makes it in the game or a ship that looks close to it
You know, there is also one of the Intel ships that (IMO) looks like the USS Vengeance...I may not like the Intel ships, but that is certainly something that could suit your purpose.
The Scryer?
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Comments
I am pretty sure that particularly the lockbox ships exist to give you the "real deal". Cool ships that other factions use, now made available for your own, personal use. There isn't really anything lazy about it - creating a different ship model wouldn't give that experience.
exactly. i've wanted to get behind the controls of an Iconian ship since I first heard about them in TNG. honestly who hasn't wanted to know about them. the OP is entitled to his opinion, but I honestly think he's just been overreacting to this whole deal. I personally would rather have the full on Herald ships than a pseudo version of the ship myself. makes perfect sense to me as to why we have them now, just like the Jem'hadar ships.
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and how many PCs have been lost to their Tal Shiar Adapted ships? Id say the method has been proven safe by now
For sale, one named character plot armor, only used once..
this is why I'm sure that the Cooperative ships will be available, and also the Original Borg.
I am sorry but i just cant respond to this post correctly, again you made so many things up that aren't mentioned in my posts that there is no constructive point for me to articulate further as you just make stuff up for the 3rd time in our discussion. People will see the original posts yes and also will see your claims which are made of thin air, relative to my posts as the majority of your replies talk about things that are not mentioned in any of my posts. I see that your post reflect a particular setup of trying to be rude especially with this words: I and others do not play this game for you, nor do we or cryptic owe it to you to do things the way YOU think they should have been done. Again where are my words telling people how they should play lets articulate further, this is one of my posts:
gulberat wrote: »
For me, when I play any toon, I tend to ignore the existence of other toons for story purposes, so yes, there's a lot of mess around spacedock and I'm sure some people get mad when I pull up in my Dromias, but the way I think, each of us have our own little "reality bubble." We're each our own little universe. I treat it a bit similarly when I write fanfic...though actually, with the toon that has the Dromias, in my story, he still officially flies a Prometheus-class ship and does not exactly captain the Dromias. (The reason I fly the Dromias in game is because unlike most people here, I suck at flying escorts. Badly. I rigged the Dromias into a quasi-sci, and I'm a lot happier with it than the Prometheus.)
Now, when it comes to immersion, my Cardassian has a Galor but as far as I'm concerned, because he's a dual-commissioned exchange officer, he has EVERY possible excuse to have access to that ship. It will be the same if a Cardassian uniform ever comes out...he has every right to that uniform.
True, immersion really does depend on the player and his view, so to each their own i guess and if your dromias suits your play style who am i to argue against it
That just one of the examples of my post that denies your made up claims...
You are correct everything is on black and white paper so people can see your made up stuff and i am happy about that. My posts will stay unchanged and people can clearly see your made majority up stuff and then replied to it...This is my last response to you as i cant reply to a person who makes stuff up to use in his own argument its like playing against a cheater..i will take some of your post that were in right place in mind though, and i would be happy if any commentators look at our comments and tell us not who is right but if they see many of your claims made up relating to my posts or if they actually see those claims written in my post.
This is uncalled for, labeling everyone who flies a ship you don't like as some sort of horrible person. Not to mention, you have no idea if someone ground for months and didn't spend a cent to earn their ship. I would suggest you retract this kind of broadbrushing assumption.
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Maybe 29th Century Borg will turn up in fancy new ships, make traditional Cubes and Sphere obsolete and then we can have them, without there being an issue.
Well that's just it - the visuals can be hidden like most ship items. So, just say you get "Voth Special Transwarp Nacelles" from a lockbox...you can mount them if you desire but keep the visuals of your standard nacelles. It in effect, locks the power and the visualization with it. I mean, making engines that could work with most models may be easier than just making an entire ship from scratch? But then again, all they do is copypasta NPC ships, so I suppose not....
why i should retract what i have said?
nobody has asked for these ships? And why cryptic "gives" these ships to the players? not because they are friendly but because a lof of people want these ships, and like these ships are not free, bingo. And if the herald ships hadn't been available, Cryptic would have been overwhelmed with requests
And sorry but the world is like that: "shut up take my money, and leave me doing what I want". Ask to the german hunter who have killed a 50 years old elephant in a protected zone, if i'm wrong.
I don't blame Cryptic, I blame the people who cares about nothing, as long as their desires are satisfied.
btw, the problem is not the ships ( i don't care), the problem is that the story is not followed, ships or stuff which shouldn't be available to the players, are finally given: and just for 1 reason. The mentality behind all of that, is just
exasperating.
Like I wrote, I have myself lockbox ships, but these ships and some others don't damage the story, and are useable by humans, klingons, vulcans etc.
bah! no matter anyway.
Now personally, I go to a great deal of trouble in the case of my two characters with a non-faction ship, to explain how they came into the possession of that ship. And for the one who has an Undine ship, I have a detailed story that I spent a lot of time writing, that includes how he came by that ship, how he got the environment set correctly for him, how he got it to respond to him. (Hint: See my signature for that toon--he has abilities a normal humanoid does not, and no, the ship would not have responded to the majority of Starfleet officers in my personal headcanon.) Heck, just standing on the bridge of that ship was enough to inspire me to work on that story.
BUT. Although I stand by my work sufficiently to invite anyone to read it, on general principle I do not have to submit it to anyone for a grade in order to get some sort of permission token to play the way I want to play. Nor does anyone.
I may write stories but I do not expect the same from others...they are free IMO to choose any ship they want without any other reason beyond liking something. I am not going to ask anyone else to submit to my approval. It is not some sort of attack against me, it is not some sort of character fault on someone's part, if they buy something I would not. And it IS entirely within my ability to ignore what I don't like (T6 Intel ships--ouch, my eyes!
If you do not approve of Cryptic's practices or storywriting, there are two choices you may wish to consider. One is to stop putting money into the game and continue playing--while treating fellow players with respect--knowing there will be things you do not like (my choice, for different reasons than yours). The other is to not play if you find it so upsetting that you can't be in that environment anymore.
Anyway, I think that about sums up all I have to say on the subject...I don't see a need to restate it again after this.
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Original Borg is straight-up against their contract with CBS. However, Geko DID say he could and would like to make a Cooperative Mini-Faction (smaller than the Romulan Mini-Faction) at some point. Probably as a Lifer-exclusive thing.
Isn't it just wonderful? We'll be able to get Cooperative Cubes, Spheres, and Probes someday!
Artistic license is one than, but just because "it's only a game" doesn't excuse flagrant, nonsensical departures from the theme, setting, tradition, and integrity of that game's foundation, and basis. Each lockbox seems to chip away at that foundation more, and more. Eventually, at this rate, it will be "just another game" as opposed to a recognizable Star Trek game. Similarly, just because say... Dragon Age is "just a game," saying this wouldn't excuse the inclusion of say... starships in that game.
These aren't simply "hybrid" ships, except perhaps in name only. This hybrid nonsense isn't even plausible. It would make more sense to say these were stolen, or salvaged, like the Jem Hadar ship from the DS9 series (which was only used once, and wasn't exactly a great fit even when it was used)--at least the television had some sense of integrity. They're the exact same designs as the original ships with no representation for the factions that have supposedly put them together, and are going to be flying them around. The Federation, Klingons, and Romulans all have recognizable, characteristic qualities of their ship design which are all entirely disregarded and absent from these alleged hybrid lockbox ships. The Federation would take an existing Federation ship and retrofit it with RE'd Herald tech if they were going to do that at all, for instance. Again, looking back to DS9, plugging Romulan cloak tech into a Federation design didn't require the Feds to build a Romulan ship. They would start with what they know--what they're used to, and have perfected--and build and adapt from there. The end result would still be recognizable as a Federation vessel.
And it's not as if there are no other alternatives that could achieve the same results from a business and development standpoint without sacrificing the IP and integrity of the game in the process. Borg gear visuals provide a great example of how a ship can be altered to represent this idea of RE'd alien technology without the expectation of a massive suspension of disbelief that compromises the integrity of the core of the IP.
what about the setting never even implied this couldn't happen or unlikely to, and that in some fanboy/fangirl's fanfiction shockingly enough doesn't count. and people always saying X is against the one true way of treky trek of trekdom is the thing that generally theatens to damage the IP. since they clearly no clue about the IP they are so valiantly protect from... hell if I know. more so when feds using alien ships has happened in canon.
oh and comparing starship in a game about in part about starships to starships in a medieval fantasy game... if I have to explain just how dumb that is just put me on ignore and save us both alot problems
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
welll good/bad news lockbox are in universe re build wrecks so it's likely they are nerfed but we probably didn't get the good stuff.. we got that with the dyson rep.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
Flying a Herald ship can easily be explained as being a captured or abandoned ship that was repaired and refitted for your use. You, as the unique special Admiral that you are with your unique history with the Iconians, have been given this ship as a command.
Kirk flew a Bird of Prey for a whole movie, Sisko commanded a Jem'Hadar ship for a mission, Dukat commanded a Bird of Prey. People flying ships not part of their faction for special operations or due to necessity is not unheard of.
If you don't like it then don't buy it. Nothing more needs to be said.
So the herald ships fill that same odd category as the Romulan Adapted ships. To my understanding they were only ever the main flagship of Hakeev, so there should only be one, and it is built from the bits of the lone example we blew up.
We don't happen to have a toggle to stop the game from rendering out of place ships, so for the moment I can only ask that people enjoy the art that went into the Iconian ship designs. It won't be long before most of them are gone, and replaced by tier 6 scimitars, or temporal dreadnoughts.
When you make the statement that the devs are lazy because they just "tweaked existing models and viola new ships" or something to that effect, what else could it possibly mean other than you think the devs are lazy. You can say all day long that I'm "making stuff up" but the more you do this the more you prove to just be in denial as you have with other people throughout this thread. What of the others who have called out your flawed logic? Are you going to accuse them of making things up as well? As I've tried to get you to do, please elaborate on what you think I've made up. You keep saying that's what I've done yet have presented no examples of anything.
You bash the devs in the above paragraph I quoted because they gave us the actual Herald ships instead of designing new ships based off the Herald models, yet somehow I'm the rude one. Sorry dude but thinking like this wreaks of entitlement.
As I've said in my previous posts, arguments you make like this are completely subjective and 100% based on the user. Arguments such as this can't be proven or disproven as they're not based in logic or on a sound testable base. You assume that simply because for you it throws everything down the toilet by allowing player controlled Herald ships, that everyone feels the same way when that's just not so. You may feel that they're just some cookie cutter enemy with this addition and that's perfectly fine if you do. If for example I play through the Dominion/cardassian based episodes, even if I'm in my Jem'hadar Dread it doesn't make the Dominion feel any less threatening or cookie cutter to me. I simply spin it as having taken one of their own ships and turned it back against them. Just because I have access to the same tech as an enemy I'm fighting doesn't make them any less threatening or somehow cookie cutter. One example being our prime universe ships and the terran empire ships. There's very little difference for example between a prime universe (ours) Sovereign class and mirror Sovereign (theirs). By the logic you've employed this makes the Terran Empire just a cookie cutter enemy because we have access to the same tech as them, which again is purely a subjective argument on your part. There are plenty of ways you can spin this to make it work.
We all know Cryptic needs to earn money and that much was never being debated. The rest of your argument in this paragraph is purely subjective. As I've said before, simply because it breaks the immersion for you, does not make it so for everyone else. As I said above and previously, there are a ton of different ways you can spin the Herald ships to make them work. In fact the way we obtained the Dominion ships players fly were by finding them adrift and getting them rolling again after the Dominion didn't want them back. We also found the Temporal Science and Temporal Destroyer adrift after having been stripped down by the Tholians and others. For immersion purposes I assume that the other players I see in game are just random captains passing through the area. Aside from this unless we're teamed to do a mission, or run an STF, I assume they don't exist.
A Borg cube controlled by players would actually make sense if/when it were ever to be introduced because in the lore we have the Borg Cooperative. They are just one of several factions of Borg that broke free from the collective. If the introduction of the Tholian Recluse, Undine Dromias, and similar ships didn't bother you then why speak up now of all times? Like it or not this is a legitimate question to ask. All of this entire thread has been based on immersion which is completely subjective to start with. Since the Dromias is a bioship and can be considered alive, I consider it as a creature that agreed to work with us instead of fighting against us, much how the dreadnaught that helped Cooper refused to invade the galaxy. If you have a good enough imagination you can make most anything work in the story. The Recluse I consider as something was taken from disabled or captured Tholian ships. There's always been an infinite array and combination of looks and configurations ships can have in Star Trek. Don't limit yourself to just one specific set of looks and say anything beyond x could never be Trek.
Overall your entire argument has been subjective. When you call the devs lazy and say that this whole mess could have been avoided had they made Herald inspired ships and other arguments like that, how are you not trying to restrict player choice? How are you not being rude to the devs? Even further I must ask, why speak up now if the Dromias of all things didn't bother you being in player hands? I find it ridiculous that I had to go through such lengths and great detail to demonstrate these points to you. Not only myself but others as well. Simply saying that "you make things up" is not a legitimate defense and is simply employing a tactic used by politicians. If pointing out the flaws in your logic and calling them out means that I'm "making things up and I'm like a cheater" then so be it.
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It may as well be. That's the issue.
cause in any fandom they're a group of fans who have a problem things that don't fit what they want the IP to be which may or may not have anything to do the IP.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
This. It ignores the fact that Kirk flew a BOP for a whole movie or Sisko had a Jem Hadar ship for a three episode arc.
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Dukat also flew a BoP (not to mention he wore a Klingon baldric as a trophy). I'm not saying Dukat was doing a good thing but nothing is stopping a player from playing a similarly roguish character if they wish.
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Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
You know, there is also one of the Intel ships that (IMO) looks like the USS Vengeance...I may not like the Intel ships, but that is certainly something that could suit your purpose.
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The Scryer?
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.