They are actively working on a fix now for S11. The same bug affects the new Terran secondary torpedoes. They keep firing infinitely with TS. It was funny being able to destroy ships in Tribble with just torpedoes.
This is with 3 ranks of Kemo, never activated, again no torpedoes or radiation boost.
Yes, they shouldn't be proccing without being activated. They may be proccing on FAW (although I'm thinking maybe the issue is with Crits -- Kemo shouldn't ever Crit should it?).
I am not using Antiproton here. I'm using Tetryon.
Actually, if Kemocite couldn't crit and couldn't apply to Torpedo spreads, I think the damage it's generating would be entirely reasonable.
Why aren't you using a Neutronic Torpedo / TS3?
Do a comparison of Neutronic vs without Neutronic.
In before the lock....I see some names on that pic...invasion of privacy and Cryptic don't like publishing those domain names. Then again have not seen much moderation of forums as before so it might stay up for a while.
OP are you there too?...know I can send you some PMs
In before the lock....I see some names on that pic...invasion of privacy and Cryptic don't like publishing those domain names. Then again have not seen much moderation of forums as before so it might stay up for a while.
OP are you there too?...know I can send you some PMs
hmm this has been up for a few days. overlooked maybe?
Other than how "Vader" has managed to pull off 100k in Crystalline, how are we to determine, from this screenshot alone, that it's 100% kemocite and not something like, oh, finding a glitch to get to 100% crit hit rate or something else like that...
Also I agree with this guy. It would be nice the before/after pics of what the kemo values were if possible?
In before the lock....I see some names on that pic...invasion of privacy and Cryptic don't like publishing those domain names. Then again have not seen much moderation of forums as before so it might stay up for a while.
OP are you there too?...know I can send you some PMs
Naming and shaming policies apply when defaming a person.
The only people "naming" anyone in use/testing of the bug/exploit are naming themselves.
It's not naming/shaming if I name myself as using the bug to test it. And I don't see how NAMING anyone else is an issue if I'm not defaming them in some way.
This is with 3 ranks of Kemo, never activated, again no torpedoes or radiation boost.
Yes, they shouldn't be proccing without being activated. They may be proccing on FAW (although I'm thinking maybe the issue is with Crits -- Kemo shouldn't ever Crit should it?).
I am not using Antiproton here. I'm using Tetryon.
Actually, if Kemocite couldn't crit and couldn't apply to Torpedo spreads, I think the damage it's generating would be entirely reasonable.
Why aren't you using a Neutronic Torpedo / TS3?
Do a comparison of Neutronic vs without Neutronic.
I don't have a neutronic or enough Delta marks to get one. It would probably take me a few hours to get.
I could test with an antiproton torpedo.
But I am testing without a torpedo to show that the effects are only pronounced with a torpedo.
This is with 3 ranks of Kemo, never activated, again no torpedoes or radiation boost.
Yes, they shouldn't be proccing without being activated. They may be proccing on FAW (although I'm thinking maybe the issue is with Crits -- Kemo shouldn't ever Crit should it?).
I am not using Antiproton here. I'm using Tetryon.
Actually, if Kemocite couldn't crit and couldn't apply to Torpedo spreads, I think the damage it's generating would be entirely reasonable.
Why aren't you using a Neutronic Torpedo / TS3?
Do a comparison of Neutronic vs without Neutronic.
I don't have a neutronic or enough Delta marks to get one. It would probably take me a few hours to get.
I could test with an antiproton torpedo.
But I am testing without a torpedo to show that the effects are only pronounced with a torpedo.
Will still need to know how many beams and rate of fire, but this goes to show how you can benefit from this by just using FaW only.
PS, try the Omega Torps. MUCH MORE procs than Neutronic.
This is with 3 ranks of Kemo, never activated, again no torpedoes or radiation boost.
Yes, they shouldn't be proccing without being activated. They may be proccing on FAW (although I'm thinking maybe the issue is with Crits -- Kemo shouldn't ever Crit should it?).
I am not using Antiproton here. I'm using Tetryon.
Actually, if Kemocite couldn't crit and couldn't apply to Torpedo spreads, I think the damage it's generating would be entirely reasonable.
Why aren't you using a Neutronic Torpedo / TS3?
Do a comparison of Neutronic vs without Neutronic.
I don't have a neutronic or enough Delta marks to get one. It would probably take me a few hours to get.
I could test with an antiproton torpedo.
But I am testing without a torpedo to show that the effects are only pronounced with a torpedo.
Will still need to know how many beams and rate of fire, but this goes to show how you can benefit from this by just using FaW only.
PS, try the Omega Torps. MUCH MORE procs than Neutronic.
My point is that KLW provides about 2000 DPS for a single Kemocite (unbugged) and around 4.4k using 3 Kemocites (utilizing the bug).
It's not that powerful EXCEPT when used with TS3.
With pure beams, you actually have diminishing returns on the value of another slotted Kemocite even with the bug.
It's only with Torpedo Spread and a torpedo like Neutronic that the value is scaling absurdly high.
My DPS:
1. Without any Kemocite:
Around 51k.
2. With Kemocite activated every cooldown (no bonus procs):
Around 53k.
3. With Kemocite bonus procs and 3 Kemocite slotted:
This is with 3 ranks of Kemo, never activated, again no torpedoes or radiation boost.
Yes, they shouldn't be proccing without being activated. They may be proccing on FAW (although I'm thinking maybe the issue is with Crits -- Kemo shouldn't ever Crit should it?).
I am not using Antiproton here. I'm using Tetryon.
Actually, if Kemocite couldn't crit and couldn't apply to Torpedo spreads, I think the damage it's generating would be entirely reasonable.
Why aren't you using a Neutronic Torpedo / TS3?
Do a comparison of Neutronic vs without Neutronic.
I don't have a neutronic or enough Delta marks to get one. It would probably take me a few hours to get.
I could test with an antiproton torpedo.
But I am testing without a torpedo to show that the effects are only pronounced with a torpedo.
Will still need to know how many beams and rate of fire, but this goes to show how you can benefit from this by just using FaW only.
PS, try the Omega Torps. MUCH MORE procs than Neutronic.
I am running 4 foreward DBB, 2 Omnis, and one KCB.
Yes, this thread is mainly geared towards Torps due to the 100% proc.
It does good damage on Beams, but not OMGWTFBBQ without heavy investment all around investment (but that's just like with every other +1 mechanic in the game).
I've seen it do more damage than that with a 5x forward DBB build, but I don't have numbers off the top of my head. Really need to use those Plasma Consoles for Beams.
Beams -> Plasma Explosions
Torps -> KLW
Cannons -> I really need to try out cannons again.
This is with 3 ranks of Kemo, never activated, again no torpedoes or radiation boost.
Yes, they shouldn't be proccing without being activated. They may be proccing on FAW (although I'm thinking maybe the issue is with Crits -- Kemo shouldn't ever Crit should it?).
I am not using Antiproton here. I'm using Tetryon.
Actually, if Kemocite couldn't crit and couldn't apply to Torpedo spreads, I think the damage it's generating would be entirely reasonable.
Why aren't you using a Neutronic Torpedo / TS3?
Do a comparison of Neutronic vs without Neutronic.
I don't have a neutronic or enough Delta marks to get one. It would probably take me a few hours to get.
I could test with an antiproton torpedo.
But I am testing without a torpedo to show that the effects are only pronounced with a torpedo.
Will still need to know how many beams and rate of fire, but this goes to show how you can benefit from this by just using FaW only.
PS, try the Omega Torps. MUCH MORE procs than Neutronic.
I am running 4 foreward DBB, 2 Omnis, and one KCB.
This helps some, thank you. You have 6 beams eligible for a Kemo proc. You're using FaW1 based off of the last screenshot I saw of yours. What I need to see is the number of enemies that each FaW hit, and your uptime of FaW. Those variables make a huge difference between what you see, and what xbpathfinder experiences in his all-FaW Kemo-Cheeser run that was done intentionally to show how bad KLW can be for both weapon types' firing modes.
BTW, based off of the top logs for CCA, it will take about 2.5x KLW CRITS to = 1 non-critting Plasma Explosion.
Again, I don't know how else to say it, but if you want massive amounts of kemo procs, you use a torpedo that fires the most torpedoes per target under TS3, AND you need at least those 5 targets close together (1km radii). If you want the targets dead in a hurry, you use Neutronic, and you keep them clustered in tight (3km radii) for the AoE drain AND radiation damage to shield &/or hull.
Neutronic is one of the worst torps to use to maximize Kemo procs, but one of the best torps to use to kill your target in a hurry, ESPECIALLY with high flowcaps, and ESPECIALLY vs weakly shielded targets.
Silly BBCode errors not letting me display the images in-line, but they will open up in a new browser window.... go figure.
For comparison:
vs mine
Note the differences in Kemo procs vs weapon loadouts. Now, I AM making an assumption that he GWelled mobs together and they were all tightly packed on the Entity (based off of the logs and attacks that landed on the timeline).
I didn't dive into how many KLW's he had equipped at the time, but based off of the numbers where the first Neutronic hit, there were at least 3. I had 2 slotted and activated on cd for both HY and TS.
This is with 3 ranks of Kemo, never activated, again no torpedoes or radiation boost.
Yes, they shouldn't be proccing without being activated. They may be proccing on FAW (although I'm thinking maybe the issue is with Crits -- Kemo shouldn't ever Crit should it?).
I am not using Antiproton here. I'm using Tetryon.
Actually, if Kemocite couldn't crit and couldn't apply to Torpedo spreads, I think the damage it's generating would be entirely reasonable.
Why aren't you using a Neutronic Torpedo / TS3?
Do a comparison of Neutronic vs without Neutronic.
I don't have a neutronic or enough Delta marks to get one. It would probably take me a few hours to get.
I could test with an antiproton torpedo.
But I am testing without a torpedo to show that the effects are only pronounced with a torpedo.
Will still need to know how many beams and rate of fire, but this goes to show how you can benefit from this by just using FaW only.
PS, try the Omega Torps. MUCH MORE procs than Neutronic.
I am running 4 foreward DBB, 2 Omnis, and one KCB.
This helps some, thank you. You have 6 beams eligible for a Kemo proc. You're using FaW1 based off of the last screenshot I saw of yours. What I need to see is the number of enemies that each FaW hit, and your uptime of FaW. Those variables make a huge difference between what you see, and what xbpathfinder experiences in his all-FaW Kemo-Cheeser run that was done intentionally to show how bad KLW can be for both weapon types' firing modes.
BTW, based off of the top logs for CCA, it will take about 2.5x KLW CRITS to = 1 non-critting Plasma Explosion.
Again, I don't know how else to say it, but if you want massive amounts of kemo procs, you use a torpedo that fires the most torpedoes per target under TS3, AND you need at least those 5 targets close together (1km radii). If you want the targets dead in a hurry, you use Neutronic, and you keep them clustered in tight (3km radii) for the AoE drain AND radiation damage to shield &/or hull.
Neutronic is one of the worst torps to use to maximize Kemo procs, but one of the best torps to use to kill your target in a hurry, ESPECIALLY with high flowcaps, and ESPECIALLY vs weakly shielded targets.
The point isn't to increase Kemo cheese on my end. It's to use Kemo and NOT get cheese results to show where the cheese is coming from but showing cases where it DOESN'T get insane damage.
I have nearly 50% uptime on FAW, which is the max. I'm running two Krenim, two purple EWOs (50% chance each of reducing FAW/BO cooldown by 10 seconds). I am using gravity well 3 to line up targets.
I am not trying to get 150k DPS.
I am trying to demonstrate that, excluding torpedoes, the results of three broken KLWs is dramatically less. If I got 150k DPS, I would fail to demonstrate what I am attempting to demonstrate:
Which is that Torpedo Spread 3 (and the Kemocite scripting baked into it) is the more severely broken ability. By a huge order of magnitude.
Having said that as I and a handful of honest people have said for a long time the torpedo proc should be 33% not 100%. at 100% it simply rewards Spread more then anything else.
I can't agree with this. I have been using torpedoes for a long time, and this ability is what the torpedo community needed.
It's stupid on mobs that are within 1km, but spread them out and it makes it so torpedoes can be a viable build in advanced/elite stf's. (Think Hive Onslaught since you can't GW Cubes).
Maybe just get rid of the AoE effect? So torps still get a nice punch and debuff on hit.
Torpedos have been vaible for a long long long time now. Giving them 100% proc one shot skills wasn't required. At 100% proc there is ZERO incentive to every run HY for instance. I mean HY is bad in general but really why would you run HY 3 and get 4 kemo hits... when you could run spread and get 40.
100% is stupid because of that... at 33% it would still be 3x better to run spread.... and trust me at 33% (with kemo working properly) Torpedos would still get the most out of Kemo. It could perhaps be as high as 50% ... but 33% would be a better number. Somewhere around the time the bio photon came out Cryptic started thinking Torps needed 100% proc chances which was just wrong headed.
Having said that as I and a handful of honest people have said for a long time the torpedo proc should be 33% not 100%. at 100% it simply rewards Spread more then anything else.
I can't agree with this. I have been using torpedoes for a long time, and this ability is what the torpedo community needed.
It's stupid on mobs that are within 1km, but spread them out and it makes it so torpedoes can be a viable build in advanced/elite stf's. (Think Hive Onslaught since you can't GW Cubes).
Maybe just get rid of the AoE effect? So torps still get a nice punch and debuff on hit.
Torpedos have been vaible for a long long long time now. Giving them 100% proc one shot skills wasn't required. At 100% proc there is ZERO incentive to every run HY for instance. I mean HY is bad in general but really why would you run HY 3 and get 4 kemo hits... when you could run spread and get 40.
100% is stupid because of that... at 33% it would still be 3x better to run spread.... and trust me at 33% (with kemo working properly) Torpedos would still get the most out of Kemo. It could perhaps be as high as 50% ... but 33% would be a better number. Somewhere around the time the bio photon came out Cryptic started thinking Torps needed 100% proc chances which was just wrong headed.
Concerning proc chances, the Advanced Radiant Quantum torpedo disagrees with you.
As to "... ZERO incentive to every run HY ...", it's actually BECAUSE of the 100% proc chance that one can run HY and obtain the debuff from KLW. We were just waiting for it to be fixed for ALL HY torps so that ic an be used.
Bringing it to even 50% proc rate significantly lowers the value of KLW, and since torps have a significantly lower RoF vs energy weapons..... I need only remind you about Omega Graviton Amplifyer's proc rate w/ torps to show you how effective that is. Besides, there is a precedent for near 100% proc rates for HY (Gravimetric, Corrosive, TDD, TriC, Elachi, Enh-BioMolecular, Resonant Transphasic, Neutronic, etc, all at ~87% or greater to proc secondary effect(s)).
I am liking the idea of either ditching the AoE affect (and increasing the debuff and/or radiation damage), OR putting a target cap (5) on it like they did to Neutronic (for some odd reason....).
Note the differences in Kemo procs vs weapon loadouts. Now, I AM making an assumption that he GWelled mobs together and they were all tightly packed on the Entity (based off of the logs and attacks that landed on the timeline).
I didn't dive into how many KLW's he had equipped at the time, but based off of the numbers where the first Neutronic hit, there were at least 3. I had 2 slotted and activated on cd for both HY and TS.
This is with 3 ranks of Kemo, never activated, again no torpedoes or radiation boost.
Yes, they shouldn't be proccing without being activated. They may be proccing on FAW (although I'm thinking maybe the issue is with Crits -- Kemo shouldn't ever Crit should it?).
I am not using Antiproton here. I'm using Tetryon.
Actually, if Kemocite couldn't crit and couldn't apply to Torpedo spreads, I think the damage it's generating would be entirely reasonable.
Why aren't you using a Neutronic Torpedo / TS3?
Do a comparison of Neutronic vs without Neutronic.
I don't have a neutronic or enough Delta marks to get one. It would probably take me a few hours to get.
I could test with an antiproton torpedo.
But I am testing without a torpedo to show that the effects are only pronounced with a torpedo.
Will still need to know how many beams and rate of fire, but this goes to show how you can benefit from this by just using FaW only.
PS, try the Omega Torps. MUCH MORE procs than Neutronic.
I am running 4 foreward DBB, 2 Omnis, and one KCB.
This helps some, thank you. You have 6 beams eligible for a Kemo proc. You're using FaW1 based off of the last screenshot I saw of yours. What I need to see is the number of enemies that each FaW hit, and your uptime of FaW. Those variables make a huge difference between what you see, and what xbpathfinder experiences in his all-FaW Kemo-Cheeser run that was done intentionally to show how bad KLW can be for both weapon types' firing modes.
BTW, based off of the top logs for CCA, it will take about 2.5x KLW CRITS to = 1 non-critting Plasma Explosion.
Again, I don't know how else to say it, but if you want massive amounts of kemo procs, you use a torpedo that fires the most torpedoes per target under TS3, AND you need at least those 5 targets close together (1km radii). If you want the targets dead in a hurry, you use Neutronic, and you keep them clustered in tight (3km radii) for the AoE drain AND radiation damage to shield &/or hull.
Neutronic is one of the worst torps to use to maximize Kemo procs, but one of the best torps to use to kill your target in a hurry, ESPECIALLY with high flowcaps, and ESPECIALLY vs weakly shielded targets.
The point isn't to increase Kemo cheese on my end. It's to use Kemo and NOT get cheese results to show where the cheese is coming from but showing cases where it DOESN'T get insane damage.
I have nearly 50% uptime on FAW, which is the max. I'm running two Krenim, two purple EWOs (50% chance each of reducing FAW/BO cooldown by 10 seconds). I am using gravity well 3 to line up targets.
I am not trying to get 150k DPS.
I am trying to demonstrate that, excluding torpedoes, the results of three broken KLWs is dramatically less. If I got 150k DPS, I would fail to demonstrate what I am attempting to demonstrate:
Which is that Torpedo Spread 3 (and the Kemocite scripting baked into it) is the more severely broken ability. By a huge order of magnitude.
I can simplify it for you:
Others w/ FaW-only builds + multiple KLW slotted have reported 50K+DPS contributions from KLW in target-rich environments.
TS makes it easier because of the 100% proc rate AND the proc# PER KLW PER torp.
Just because you can't get FaW to proc KLW at insane numbers doesn't mean that it hasn't been done already, multiple times over, in CCA, HSE, and ISA.
This is with 3 ranks of Kemo, never activated, again no torpedoes or radiation boost.
Yes, they shouldn't be proccing without being activated. They may be proccing on FAW (although I'm thinking maybe the issue is with Crits -- Kemo shouldn't ever Crit should it?).
I am not using Antiproton here. I'm using Tetryon.
Actually, if Kemocite couldn't crit and couldn't apply to Torpedo spreads, I think the damage it's generating would be entirely reasonable.
Why aren't you using a Neutronic Torpedo / TS3?
Do a comparison of Neutronic vs without Neutronic.
I don't have a neutronic or enough Delta marks to get one. It would probably take me a few hours to get.
I could test with an antiproton torpedo.
But I am testing without a torpedo to show that the effects are only pronounced with a torpedo.
Will still need to know how many beams and rate of fire, but this goes to show how you can benefit from this by just using FaW only.
PS, try the Omega Torps. MUCH MORE procs than Neutronic.
I am running 4 foreward DBB, 2 Omnis, and one KCB.
This helps some, thank you. You have 6 beams eligible for a Kemo proc. You're using FaW1 based off of the last screenshot I saw of yours. What I need to see is the number of enemies that each FaW hit, and your uptime of FaW. Those variables make a huge difference between what you see, and what xbpathfinder experiences in his all-FaW Kemo-Cheeser run that was done intentionally to show how bad KLW can be for both weapon types' firing modes.
BTW, based off of the top logs for CCA, it will take about 2.5x KLW CRITS to = 1 non-critting Plasma Explosion.
Again, I don't know how else to say it, but if you want massive amounts of kemo procs, you use a torpedo that fires the most torpedoes per target under TS3, AND you need at least those 5 targets close together (1km radii). If you want the targets dead in a hurry, you use Neutronic, and you keep them clustered in tight (3km radii) for the AoE drain AND radiation damage to shield &/or hull.
Neutronic is one of the worst torps to use to maximize Kemo procs, but one of the best torps to use to kill your target in a hurry, ESPECIALLY with high flowcaps, and ESPECIALLY vs weakly shielded targets.
The point isn't to increase Kemo cheese on my end. It's to use Kemo and NOT get cheese results to show where the cheese is coming from but showing cases where it DOESN'T get insane damage.
I have nearly 50% uptime on FAW, which is the max. I'm running two Krenim, two purple EWOs (50% chance each of reducing FAW/BO cooldown by 10 seconds). I am using gravity well 3 to line up targets.
I am not trying to get 150k DPS.
I am trying to demonstrate that, excluding torpedoes, the results of three broken KLWs is dramatically less. If I got 150k DPS, I would fail to demonstrate what I am attempting to demonstrate:
Which is that Torpedo Spread 3 (and the Kemocite scripting baked into it) is the more severely broken ability. By a huge order of magnitude.
I can simplify it for you:
Others w/ FaW-only builds + multiple KLW slotted have reported 50K+DPS contributions from KLW in target-rich environments.
TS makes it easier because of the 100% proc rate AND the proc# PER KLW PER torp.
Just because you can't get FaW to proc KLW at insane numbers doesn't mean that it hasn't been done already, multiple times over, in CCA, HSE, and ISA.
I can't buy that they hit 50k from KLW in a PUG. At that point, the bigger issue is team buffs.
This is with 3 ranks of Kemo, never activated, again no torpedoes or radiation boost.
Yes, they shouldn't be proccing without being activated. They may be proccing on FAW (although I'm thinking maybe the issue is with Crits -- Kemo shouldn't ever Crit should it?).
I am not using Antiproton here. I'm using Tetryon.
Actually, if Kemocite couldn't crit and couldn't apply to Torpedo spreads, I think the damage it's generating would be entirely reasonable.
Why aren't you using a Neutronic Torpedo / TS3?
Do a comparison of Neutronic vs without Neutronic.
I don't have a neutronic or enough Delta marks to get one. It would probably take me a few hours to get.
I could test with an antiproton torpedo.
But I am testing without a torpedo to show that the effects are only pronounced with a torpedo.
Will still need to know how many beams and rate of fire, but this goes to show how you can benefit from this by just using FaW only.
PS, try the Omega Torps. MUCH MORE procs than Neutronic.
I am running 4 foreward DBB, 2 Omnis, and one KCB.
This helps some, thank you. You have 6 beams eligible for a Kemo proc. You're using FaW1 based off of the last screenshot I saw of yours. What I need to see is the number of enemies that each FaW hit, and your uptime of FaW. Those variables make a huge difference between what you see, and what xbpathfinder experiences in his all-FaW Kemo-Cheeser run that was done intentionally to show how bad KLW can be for both weapon types' firing modes.
BTW, based off of the top logs for CCA, it will take about 2.5x KLW CRITS to = 1 non-critting Plasma Explosion.
Again, I don't know how else to say it, but if you want massive amounts of kemo procs, you use a torpedo that fires the most torpedoes per target under TS3, AND you need at least those 5 targets close together (1km radii). If you want the targets dead in a hurry, you use Neutronic, and you keep them clustered in tight (3km radii) for the AoE drain AND radiation damage to shield &/or hull.
Neutronic is one of the worst torps to use to maximize Kemo procs, but one of the best torps to use to kill your target in a hurry, ESPECIALLY with high flowcaps, and ESPECIALLY vs weakly shielded targets.
The point isn't to increase Kemo cheese on my end. It's to use Kemo and NOT get cheese results to show where the cheese is coming from but showing cases where it DOESN'T get insane damage.
I have nearly 50% uptime on FAW, which is the max. I'm running two Krenim, two purple EWOs (50% chance each of reducing FAW/BO cooldown by 10 seconds). I am using gravity well 3 to line up targets.
I am not trying to get 150k DPS.
I am trying to demonstrate that, excluding torpedoes, the results of three broken KLWs is dramatically less. If I got 150k DPS, I would fail to demonstrate what I am attempting to demonstrate:
Which is that Torpedo Spread 3 (and the Kemocite scripting baked into it) is the more severely broken ability. By a huge order of magnitude.
I can simplify it for you:
Others w/ FaW-only builds + multiple KLW slotted have reported 50K+DPS contributions from KLW in target-rich environments.
TS makes it easier because of the 100% proc rate AND the proc# PER KLW PER torp.
Just because you can't get FaW to proc KLW at insane numbers doesn't mean that it hasn't been done already, multiple times over, in CCA, HSE, and ISA.
I can't buy that they hit 50k from KLW in a PUG. At that point, the bigger issue is team buffs.
1) I never said PuG.
2) In some of those CCA runs (including mine) two of us queue up in a random (PuG) instance. One is the debuffer/GWeller, the other is the DPS-Prime/GWeller{optional}. Take that for what it's worth.
3) At that point (re: team buffs), the biggest issue is still KLW's interaction w/ FaW and TS. Fix that, and there would be no issue w/ team buffs and KLW, because it would be Working As Intended.
Besides, there is a precedent for near 100% proc rates for HY (Gravimetric, Corrosive, TDD, TriC, Elachi, Enh-BioMolecular, Resonant Transphasic, Neutronic, etc, all at ~87% or greater to proc secondary effect(s)).
I am liking the idea of either ditching the AoE affect (and increasing the debuff and/or radiation damage), OR putting a target cap (5) on it like they did to Neutronic (for some odd reason....).
EDIT (OK I just re read what you posted and I read it wrong... yes yes with HY destructables 100% proc chance happens... however that is because those are all TRIBBLE shoot weapons that can be shot down... kemo can't be avoided or shot down so its not even close to the same thing, kemo should proc just like torp secondaries with the couple exceptions of the broken 100% neuts and bio photons)
Elachi have a 10% chance to proc their stun.
Grave torp has a 33% chance to proc a rift.
The Radiant Quantums are 33%.
Res Transphasic is also 33%
Tricobalt torps don't have a proc unless you use HY on them.
The time torp does have 100%... however that is balanced by the fact that it is the slowest torpedo in the game with a 15s cool down and its destructable.
Like I said it started with the Enhanced bio photon which got a 100% chance to proc its secondary effect... which at the time I knew was complete BS. There is zero reason to ever ever run a regular photon anymore. The rep bio photons (non enhanced) is also 100% and what is SUPPOSED to (but doesn't) even it out is an 8s cool down instead of 6s.
The neutronic did get 100%... and just look how well balanced that weapon is.
So I'm not sure exactly where you are pulling 87% or better from... cause that isn't correct. There are 2 torps with 100% proc secondaries... and shocker they are the only 2 torps that ever end up in negative conversations about balance.
As for KEMO... IMO what needs to change is
1) torps 33% instead of 100% proc... cause 100% is just way to strong.
2) leave the 1K Aoe... however LIMIT the number of secondary targets hit to 1 per explosion.
3) Increase the dmg to the primary target 20%.
4) decrease the dmg to the secondary target 20%
5) Add a couple new Kemo like skills to the game and add them as a class of weapon buff with global cool downs (so you could run Kemo OR the other skill(s). Then they could add a few new weapon buff skills to the game like a kemo that hit with Electrical dmg instead with a 1-2 target chain of dmg ect... pretty much some easier to get Kemo Lites so the games poor folk don't get left behind in the DPS race. No one wants to see the game get power creeped anymore behind more and more pay walls. I feel sorry for any completely new player trying to catch up as it is.
6) FIX the stupid issues with the darn skill. lol
Besides, there is a precedent for near 100% proc rates for HY (Gravimetric, Corrosive, TDD, TriC, Elachi, Enh-BioMolecular, Resonant Transphasic, Neutronic, etc, all at ~87% or greater to proc secondary effect(s)).
I am liking the idea of either ditching the AoE affect (and increasing the debuff and/or radiation damage), OR putting a target cap (5) on it like they did to Neutronic (for some odd reason....).
EDIT (OK I just re read what you posted and I read it wrong... yes yes with HY destructables 100% proc chance happens... however that is because those are all TRIBBLE shoot weapons that can be shot down... kemo can't be avoided or shot down so its not even close to the same thing, kemo should proc just like torp secondaries with the couple exceptions of the broken 100% neuts and bio photons)
Elachi have a 10% chance to proc their stun.
Grave torp has a 33% chance to proc a rift.
The Radiant Quantums are 33%.
Res Transphasic is also 33%
Tricobalt torps don't have a proc unless you use HY on them.
The time torp does have 100%... however that is balanced by the fact that it is the slowest torpedo in the game with a 15s cool down and its destructable.
Those numbers are for TS, as HY has a different proc value coded for them. Go test for yourself and see. The ~87% proc rate for HY was based off of tests for Corrosive Plasma (Lobi) and Resonant Transphasic. Elachi procs it's affect on HY.
Like I said it started with the Enhanced bio photon which got a 100% chance to proc its secondary effect... which at the time I knew was complete BS. There is zero reason to ever ever run a regular photon anymore. The rep bio photons (non enhanced) is also 100% and what is SUPPOSED to (but doesn't) even it out is an 8s cool down instead of 6s.
The neutronic did get 100%... and just look how well balanced that weapon is.
So I'm not sure exactly where you are pulling 87% or better from... cause that isn't correct. There are 2 torps with 100% proc secondaries... and shocker they are the only 2 torps that ever end up in negative conversations about balance.
Enh Bio-Mol and the lesser variants have an 8 second delay before they proc their damaging effect. Prior to that, they affect their target with a slow. The photons have a 6 second refresh/"reload" time before firing again (excluding PWO cd DOffs). As for Neutronic, one can easily argue that was the single saving grace for torps in Delta Rising until the introduction of KLW. It works very well for the beam boat meta: load up on flowcaps + leech and fire away. Now, if you want to call Neutronic "well balanced", I get to call everything else in the game "well balanced". See how this game is played?
As for KEMO... IMO what needs to change is
1) torps 33% instead of 100% proc... cause 100% is just way to strong.
2) leave the 1K Aoe... however LIMIT the number of secondary targets hit to 1 per explosion.
3) Increase the dmg to the primary target 20%.
4) decrease the dmg to the secondary target 20%
5) Add a couple new Kemo like skills to the game and add them as a class of weapon buff with global cool downs (so you could run Kemo OR the other skill(s). Then they could add a few new weapon buff skills to the game like a kemo that hit with Electrical dmg instead with a 1-2 target chain of dmg ect... pretty much some easier to get Kemo Lites so the games poor folk don't get left behind in the DPS race. No one wants to see the game get power creeped anymore behind more and more pay walls. I feel sorry for any completely new player trying to catch up as it is.
6) FIX the stupid issues with the darn skill. lol
1) You're judging KLW based off of its bugged state.
2) I'm OK w/ a target limit, so long as it's applied universally across all weapon platforms. FYI, AoE of 1 = just the target itself, unless you meant one additional target.... I wonder how the server will randomly select one additional target...
3) Contingent on #1. I say don't change #1 and scrap #3.
4) Contingent on #3.
5) BAAAAAD idea for parsing alone, let alone new damage types that may/may not be buffed by something. Then the Dev's will have a mess on their boilerplates for damage types and what is/isn't buffed by what on which part of the day, (except Wednesdays....).
FYI, for those who are having issues w/ severe client lock-ups during a KLW blitz, AND you have a second hard drive attached to your PC, google, "How to make a hard link" and then hard link your logs folder to the second drive. It may help you out based on the speed of the destination drive. If the second drive is absurdly slow, it won't help, though.
Those numbers are for TS, as HY has a different proc value coded for them. Go test for yourself and see. The ~87% proc rate for HY was based off of tests for Corrosive Plasma (Lobi) and Resonant Transphasic. Elachi procs it's affect on HY.
I know I corrected myself with the edit... I assumed you where just talking about the torps without buffs for some reason at first... still the secondary effects are very rarely a 100% proc unless it is on a slow targatable torp.
Enh Bio-Mol and the lesser variants have an 8 second delay before they proc their damaging effect. Prior to that, they affect their target with a slow. The photons have a 6 second refresh/"reload" time before firing again (excluding PWO cd DOffs). As for Neutronic, one can easily argue that was the single saving grace for torps in Delta Rising until the introduction of KLW. It works very well for the beam boat meta: load up on flowcaps + leech and fire away. Now, if you want to call Neutronic "well balanced", I get to call everything else in the game "well balanced". See how this game is played?
I never called the Neutronic well balanced... quite the opposite its a clearly OP torp which is why its the main torp you see people running these days.
I wasn't talking about the Enh Bio-M there btw. I was talking about the standard Bio-M photons which are = in every way to a normal photon.. the diffrences are the 100% proc slow (which even Chroniton doesn't get) at the supposed trade of an 8s reload instead of 6s. (yes the Enhanced version is 6s... as a one only rep torp that doesn't seem as bad)
As for Neut being a saving grace... BS. I have had a 60k DPS torp boat since well before DR, and I still haven't slotted a neut torp. (Cause honestly the Photon Boosts put them ahead of the quantums... and the new set is only going to put them further ahead)
1) You're judging KLW based off of its bugged state.
2) I'm OK w/ a target limit, so long as it's applied universally across all weapon platforms. FYI, AoE of 1 = just the target itself, unless you meant one additional target.... I wonder how the server will randomly select one additional target...
3) Contingent on #1. I say don't change #1 and scrap #3.
4) Contingent on #3.
5) BAAAAAD idea for parsing alone, let alone new damage types that may/may not be buffed by something. Then the Dev's will have a mess on their boilerplates for damage types and what is/isn't buffed by what on which part of the day, (except Wednesdays....).
FYI, for those who are having issues w/ severe client lock-ups during a KLW blitz, AND you have a second hard drive attached to your PC, google, "How to make a hard link" and then hard link your logs folder to the second drive. It may help you out based on the speed of the destination drive. If the second drive is absurdly slow, it won't help, though.
1) No I am really not... I am judging it off the fact that I can hit 100+ dmg stikes LEGIT (no bugs counted) which tells me that 100% proc is just not going to ever be a balanced mechanic... either the dmg is going to have to be set lower to account for the massive potential dmg off a spread, making it suck completely for energy weapons... or the fact that spread can proc it that many times with unlimited secondary explosions will have to change.
Think about it... with energy weapons Kemo is a Small over time dmg increase... and with Torps it is a 1 time only super spike weapon. (In its working as intended state). Balancing that is just never going to work... and it shows that Cryptics ability to use critical thinking is lacking.
2) The server has no issues doing this for other skills. Its very simply KEMO effects main target + 1 additional target that is the closest to the main target with in 1k. So if there are 10 options for the server to calculate on its a simple (hit closest target) calculation. Works just fine for things like ISO for instance where it will only chain to the max targets even if there are 2x as many possibles... it jumps to the closest target, its not any real server work.
3) ! can't really go... the issue is even working as intended the potential for 100+ calculations is both far to powerful as well as to much server strain to exist. To be honest as much as I know cryptic loves selling OP stuff every sales cycle till they get around to "fixing it" in the same patch the next new thing comes out... I still can't believe they coded Kemo thinking "ya this won't kill the server at all". Its pretty bad programming really.
4) I only suggested the 20% up 20% down for adds... to make it more of a DMG boost for single targets instead of just a stupid fire into a cluster skill like everything else in this game... but ya really they do that or not no big thing.
5)... eh it doesn't really matter what type of dmg any new skill does... hell it can just do Phaser/Disruptor/AP... or Kinetic Like harpang... doesn't really matter. The only point was at this point if Kemo is going to exist mostly unchanged other then bug fixes... they need to release a version that the average player can obtain with out to much difficulty. It doesn't have to be as good as kemo, don't get me wrong I'm not arguing free kemos for everyone. But "direct dmg weapon buffs" is a class of skill Cryptic hasn't had in the game until kemo. So imo they should run with it and add a couple new skills like it... they don't even have to be direct dmg... They could be perhaps something that does no dmg at all... but adds a debuff, or an aoe power drain, or a AOE charged particle effect. The what doesn't matter as much as the idea that the have not players could slot something that would at least give them something 3/4 as good... so that we don't have to deal with a game balanced around having people with $600 worth of gear doing 100k DPS consistent easy like, and everyone else struggling to break 20k. I say this as someone with BILLIONS of EC in gear, and KEMO on like 10 toons at this point... I want to be able to give advice to a new player and be able to say... slot this this this and this and you will be 80% the way there. (although the game hasn't been there for a long long time... it used to be you could give people advice on gear and with in 20min they could be doing 3x better... now you give them the advice and they get grinding for 2 months to try it out... I guess it got stupid long before kemo) Anyway.... ya.
I quite do not understand the logic, that "torpedoes are now fine" because we have Neut and Kemo..LOL.
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I quite do not understand the logic, that "torpedoes are now fine" because we have Neut and Kemo..LOL.
Myself I always have thought torpedo are just fine... here is the rub though. They are only fine if you dedicate to them just like you do with energy. You either run full on torp boat or don't bother (running one beam on a sci doesn't count). This way just like energy your run all Torp dmg consoles and they are fine. Once you get a Quantum or Photon torp over 10k Base dmg they are just as viable as any beam build.
So the issue isn't really that as much as it is... traditional 1-2 torp ships that we see in the shows have always been sub par and mostly border on bad builds. Sure at one time a torp in PvP was a good idea... but they never increased DPS in PvE... and PvP has become less and less a game of timing so running just one torp in PvP is pretty silly as well.
They tried to address it with the Command Spec... and I think had they asked a few long time players their thoughts that spec would have been a lot better and a lot more useful at boosting the "standard" show style setups. This new set they are talking about might help as well...
I think what is really needed though is a change to console dmg boosts. As long as Torpedo and Energy Consoles are 2 different things it will never be optimal to run both at the same time.
The simple fix is to delete all the Rainbow consoles that boost all Cannons or All Beams or All torps... and just replace them with one universal console that boosts all Energy and All Torpedos the same amount as those consoles do now. The super min max spam beam builds would still be better off with what they got... a full stealth torp bomber would still be better off with same type torp consoles, although I run the +torp consoles on most of my torpedo boats so I can change rep torps around and such depending on what I need with no down side... its worth a small bit of dmg to be able to mix boosted rep torps together ect.
Anyway I have said it before in another thread... this is the simple fix for the standard trek build guys;
[Tactical Sub-System Regulator MK XII]
+ 20% Energy Weapon damage
+ 20% Kinetic Weapon damage
[Fleet Spire Tactical Sub System Regulator Vulnerability Exploiter MK XII] [+tssr]
+ 27.9% Energy Weapon damage
+ 27.9% Kinetic Weapon damage
+ 8% Critical Severity
[Fleet Spire Tactical Sub System Regulator Vulnerability Locator MK XII] [+tssr]
+ 27.9% Energy Weapon damage
+ 27.9% Kinetic Weapon damage
+ 1.6% Critical Chance
The same types would still be just enough more that the min maxers won't feel the need to swap... bit it will be a major boost for people wanting to run more trek style builds, and throw one or two torps on... and heck for some ships with just the right boff setups, they may even be just slightly optimal with the right Rep sets and spec.
They will nerf Kemocite after they replace it with the next flavor. Gotta push Lockboxes after all, and Kemocite is a regular hit. It took them a long time to balance Plasma Embassy consoles as well.
So personally, I'd rather have to suffer Kemocite as it is than to see how they're going to top it next as an incentive to help sell Lockboxes and Keys.
Comments
NOT BUG... its how they defeated the Iconians!
Why aren't you using a Neutronic Torpedo / TS3?
Do a comparison of Neutronic vs without Neutronic.
OP are you there too?...know I can send you some PMs
hmm this has been up for a few days. overlooked maybe?
Also I agree with this guy. It would be nice the before/after pics of what the kemo values were if possible?
Naming and shaming policies apply when defaming a person.
The only people "naming" anyone in use/testing of the bug/exploit are naming themselves.
It's not naming/shaming if I name myself as using the bug to test it. And I don't see how NAMING anyone else is an issue if I'm not defaming them in some way.
I don't have a neutronic or enough Delta marks to get one. It would probably take me a few hours to get.
I could test with an antiproton torpedo.
But I am testing without a torpedo to show that the effects are only pronounced with a torpedo.
Will still need to know how many beams and rate of fire, but this goes to show how you can benefit from this by just using FaW only.
PS, try the Omega Torps. MUCH MORE procs than Neutronic.
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"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
My point is that KLW provides about 2000 DPS for a single Kemocite (unbugged) and around 4.4k using 3 Kemocites (utilizing the bug).
It's not that powerful EXCEPT when used with TS3.
With pure beams, you actually have diminishing returns on the value of another slotted Kemocite even with the bug.
It's only with Torpedo Spread and a torpedo like Neutronic that the value is scaling absurdly high.
My DPS:
1. Without any Kemocite:
Around 51k.
2. With Kemocite activated every cooldown (no bonus procs):
Around 53k.
3. With Kemocite bonus procs and 3 Kemocite slotted:
Around 57k.
4. Theoretical with Neutronic Torpedo and TS3:
Around 150k.
#1 and #2: Working as intended.
#3: Bugged but not critically bugged.
#4: Critically bugged.
I am running 4 foreward DBB, 2 Omnis, and one KCB.
It does good damage on Beams, but not OMGWTFBBQ without heavy investment all around investment (but that's just like with every other +1 mechanic in the game).
I've seen it do more damage than that with a 5x forward DBB build, but I don't have numbers off the top of my head. Really need to use those Plasma Consoles for Beams.
Beams -> Plasma Explosions
Torps -> KLW
Cannons -> I really need to try out cannons again.
This helps some, thank you. You have 6 beams eligible for a Kemo proc. You're using FaW1 based off of the last screenshot I saw of yours. What I need to see is the number of enemies that each FaW hit, and your uptime of FaW. Those variables make a huge difference between what you see, and what xbpathfinder experiences in his all-FaW Kemo-Cheeser run that was done intentionally to show how bad KLW can be for both weapon types' firing modes.
BTW, based off of the top logs for CCA, it will take about 2.5x KLW CRITS to = 1 non-critting Plasma Explosion.
Again, I don't know how else to say it, but if you want massive amounts of kemo procs, you use a torpedo that fires the most torpedoes per target under TS3, AND you need at least those 5 targets close together (1km radii). If you want the targets dead in a hurry, you use Neutronic, and you keep them clustered in tight (3km radii) for the AoE drain AND radiation damage to shield &/or hull.
Neutronic is one of the worst torps to use to maximize Kemo procs, but one of the best torps to use to kill your target in a hurry, ESPECIALLY with high flowcaps, and ESPECIALLY vs weakly shielded targets.
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Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
For comparison:
vs mine
Note the differences in Kemo procs vs weapon loadouts. Now, I AM making an assumption that he GWelled mobs together and they were all tightly packed on the Entity (based off of the logs and attacks that landed on the timeline).
I didn't dive into how many KLW's he had equipped at the time, but based off of the numbers where the first Neutronic hit, there were at least 3. I had 2 slotted and activated on cd for both HY and TS.
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Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
The point isn't to increase Kemo cheese on my end. It's to use Kemo and NOT get cheese results to show where the cheese is coming from but showing cases where it DOESN'T get insane damage.
I have nearly 50% uptime on FAW, which is the max. I'm running two Krenim, two purple EWOs (50% chance each of reducing FAW/BO cooldown by 10 seconds). I am using gravity well 3 to line up targets.
I am not trying to get 150k DPS.
I am trying to demonstrate that, excluding torpedoes, the results of three broken KLWs is dramatically less. If I got 150k DPS, I would fail to demonstrate what I am attempting to demonstrate:
Which is that Torpedo Spread 3 (and the Kemocite scripting baked into it) is the more severely broken ability. By a huge order of magnitude.
Torpedos have been vaible for a long long long time now. Giving them 100% proc one shot skills wasn't required. At 100% proc there is ZERO incentive to every run HY for instance. I mean HY is bad in general but really why would you run HY 3 and get 4 kemo hits... when you could run spread and get 40.
100% is stupid because of that... at 33% it would still be 3x better to run spread.... and trust me at 33% (with kemo working properly) Torpedos would still get the most out of Kemo. It could perhaps be as high as 50% ... but 33% would be a better number. Somewhere around the time the bio photon came out Cryptic started thinking Torps needed 100% proc chances which was just wrong headed.
Concerning proc chances, the Advanced Radiant Quantum torpedo disagrees with you.
As to "... ZERO incentive to every run HY ...", it's actually BECAUSE of the 100% proc chance that one can run HY and obtain the debuff from KLW. We were just waiting for it to be fixed for ALL HY torps so that ic an be used.
Bringing it to even 50% proc rate significantly lowers the value of KLW, and since torps have a significantly lower RoF vs energy weapons..... I need only remind you about Omega Graviton Amplifyer's proc rate w/ torps to show you how effective that is. Besides, there is a precedent for near 100% proc rates for HY (Gravimetric, Corrosive, TDD, TriC, Elachi, Enh-BioMolecular, Resonant Transphasic, Neutronic, etc, all at ~87% or greater to proc secondary effect(s)).
I am liking the idea of either ditching the AoE affect (and increasing the debuff and/or radiation damage), OR putting a target cap (5) on it like they did to Neutronic (for some odd reason....).
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"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
Dead links btw.
I can simplify it for you:
Others w/ FaW-only builds + multiple KLW slotted have reported 50K+DPS contributions from KLW in target-rich environments.
TS makes it easier because of the 100% proc rate AND the proc# PER KLW PER torp.
Just because you can't get FaW to proc KLW at insane numbers doesn't mean that it hasn't been done already, multiple times over, in CCA, HSE, and ISA.
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"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
I can't buy that they hit 50k from KLW in a PUG. At that point, the bigger issue is team buffs.
1) I never said PuG.
2) In some of those CCA runs (including mine) two of us queue up in a random (PuG) instance. One is the debuffer/GWeller, the other is the DPS-Prime/GWeller{optional}. Take that for what it's worth.
3) At that point (re: team buffs), the biggest issue is still KLW's interaction w/ FaW and TS. Fix that, and there would be no issue w/ team buffs and KLW, because it would be Working As Intended.
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Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
EDIT (OK I just re read what you posted and I read it wrong... yes yes with HY destructables 100% proc chance happens... however that is because those are all TRIBBLE shoot weapons that can be shot down... kemo can't be avoided or shot down so its not even close to the same thing, kemo should proc just like torp secondaries with the couple exceptions of the broken 100% neuts and bio photons)
Elachi have a 10% chance to proc their stun.
Grave torp has a 33% chance to proc a rift.
The Radiant Quantums are 33%.
Res Transphasic is also 33%
Tricobalt torps don't have a proc unless you use HY on them.
The time torp does have 100%... however that is balanced by the fact that it is the slowest torpedo in the game with a 15s cool down and its destructable.
Like I said it started with the Enhanced bio photon which got a 100% chance to proc its secondary effect... which at the time I knew was complete BS. There is zero reason to ever ever run a regular photon anymore. The rep bio photons (non enhanced) is also 100% and what is SUPPOSED to (but doesn't) even it out is an 8s cool down instead of 6s.
The neutronic did get 100%... and just look how well balanced that weapon is.
So I'm not sure exactly where you are pulling 87% or better from... cause that isn't correct. There are 2 torps with 100% proc secondaries... and shocker they are the only 2 torps that ever end up in negative conversations about balance.
As for KEMO... IMO what needs to change is
1) torps 33% instead of 100% proc... cause 100% is just way to strong.
2) leave the 1K Aoe... however LIMIT the number of secondary targets hit to 1 per explosion.
3) Increase the dmg to the primary target 20%.
4) decrease the dmg to the secondary target 20%
5) Add a couple new Kemo like skills to the game and add them as a class of weapon buff with global cool downs (so you could run Kemo OR the other skill(s). Then they could add a few new weapon buff skills to the game like a kemo that hit with Electrical dmg instead with a 1-2 target chain of dmg ect... pretty much some easier to get Kemo Lites so the games poor folk don't get left behind in the DPS race. No one wants to see the game get power creeped anymore behind more and more pay walls. I feel sorry for any completely new player trying to catch up as it is.
6) FIX the stupid issues with the darn skill. lol
Fixed that for you.
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Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
Those numbers are for TS, as HY has a different proc value coded for them. Go test for yourself and see. The ~87% proc rate for HY was based off of tests for Corrosive Plasma (Lobi) and Resonant Transphasic. Elachi procs it's affect on HY.
Enh Bio-Mol and the lesser variants have an 8 second delay before they proc their damaging effect. Prior to that, they affect their target with a slow. The photons have a 6 second refresh/"reload" time before firing again (excluding PWO cd DOffs). As for Neutronic, one can easily argue that was the single saving grace for torps in Delta Rising until the introduction of KLW. It works very well for the beam boat meta: load up on flowcaps + leech and fire away. Now, if you want to call Neutronic "well balanced", I get to call everything else in the game "well balanced". See how this game is played?
1) You're judging KLW based off of its bugged state.
2) I'm OK w/ a target limit, so long as it's applied universally across all weapon platforms. FYI, AoE of 1 = just the target itself, unless you meant one additional target.... I wonder how the server will randomly select one additional target...
3) Contingent on #1. I say don't change #1 and scrap #3.
4) Contingent on #3.
5) BAAAAAD idea for parsing alone, let alone new damage types that may/may not be buffed by something. Then the Dev's will have a mess on their boilerplates for damage types and what is/isn't buffed by what on which part of the day, (except Wednesdays....).
FYI, for those who are having issues w/ severe client lock-ups during a KLW blitz, AND you have a second hard drive attached to your PC, google, "How to make a hard link" and then hard link your logs folder to the second drive. It may help you out based on the speed of the destination drive. If the second drive is absurdly slow, it won't help, though.
Fleet Defiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support | Fleet Manticore Kinetic Strike Ship | Tactical Command Kinetic Siege Refit | Fleet Defiant Quantum Phase Escort | Fleet Valiant Kinetic Heavy Fire Support
Turning the Galaxy-X into a Torpedo Dreadnought & torpedo tutorial, with written torpedo guide.
"A good weapon and a great strategy will win you many battles." - Marshall
I knew using Kinetics would be playing the game on hard mode, but what I didn't realize was how bad the deck is stacked against Kinetics.
I know I corrected myself with the edit... I assumed you where just talking about the torps without buffs for some reason at first... still the secondary effects are very rarely a 100% proc unless it is on a slow targatable torp.
I never called the Neutronic well balanced... quite the opposite its a clearly OP torp which is why its the main torp you see people running these days.
I wasn't talking about the Enh Bio-M there btw. I was talking about the standard Bio-M photons which are = in every way to a normal photon.. the diffrences are the 100% proc slow (which even Chroniton doesn't get) at the supposed trade of an 8s reload instead of 6s. (yes the Enhanced version is 6s... as a one only rep torp that doesn't seem as bad)
As for Neut being a saving grace... BS. I have had a 60k DPS torp boat since well before DR, and I still haven't slotted a neut torp. (Cause honestly the Photon Boosts put them ahead of the quantums... and the new set is only going to put them further ahead)
1) No I am really not... I am judging it off the fact that I can hit 100+ dmg stikes LEGIT (no bugs counted) which tells me that 100% proc is just not going to ever be a balanced mechanic... either the dmg is going to have to be set lower to account for the massive potential dmg off a spread, making it suck completely for energy weapons... or the fact that spread can proc it that many times with unlimited secondary explosions will have to change.
Think about it... with energy weapons Kemo is a Small over time dmg increase... and with Torps it is a 1 time only super spike weapon. (In its working as intended state). Balancing that is just never going to work... and it shows that Cryptics ability to use critical thinking is lacking.
2) The server has no issues doing this for other skills. Its very simply KEMO effects main target + 1 additional target that is the closest to the main target with in 1k. So if there are 10 options for the server to calculate on its a simple (hit closest target) calculation. Works just fine for things like ISO for instance where it will only chain to the max targets even if there are 2x as many possibles... it jumps to the closest target, its not any real server work.
3) ! can't really go... the issue is even working as intended the potential for 100+ calculations is both far to powerful as well as to much server strain to exist. To be honest as much as I know cryptic loves selling OP stuff every sales cycle till they get around to "fixing it" in the same patch the next new thing comes out... I still can't believe they coded Kemo thinking "ya this won't kill the server at all". Its pretty bad programming really.
4) I only suggested the 20% up 20% down for adds... to make it more of a DMG boost for single targets instead of just a stupid fire into a cluster skill like everything else in this game... but ya really they do that or not no big thing.
5)... eh it doesn't really matter what type of dmg any new skill does... hell it can just do Phaser/Disruptor/AP... or Kinetic Like harpang... doesn't really matter. The only point was at this point if Kemo is going to exist mostly unchanged other then bug fixes... they need to release a version that the average player can obtain with out to much difficulty. It doesn't have to be as good as kemo, don't get me wrong I'm not arguing free kemos for everyone. But "direct dmg weapon buffs" is a class of skill Cryptic hasn't had in the game until kemo. So imo they should run with it and add a couple new skills like it... they don't even have to be direct dmg... They could be perhaps something that does no dmg at all... but adds a debuff, or an aoe power drain, or a AOE charged particle effect. The what doesn't matter as much as the idea that the have not players could slot something that would at least give them something 3/4 as good... so that we don't have to deal with a game balanced around having people with $600 worth of gear doing 100k DPS consistent easy like, and everyone else struggling to break 20k. I say this as someone with BILLIONS of EC in gear, and KEMO on like 10 toons at this point... I want to be able to give advice to a new player and be able to say... slot this this this and this and you will be 80% the way there. (although the game hasn't been there for a long long time... it used to be you could give people advice on gear and with in 20min they could be doing 3x better... now you give them the advice and they get grinding for 2 months to try it out... I guess it got stupid long before kemo) Anyway.... ya.
Myself I always have thought torpedo are just fine... here is the rub though. They are only fine if you dedicate to them just like you do with energy. You either run full on torp boat or don't bother (running one beam on a sci doesn't count). This way just like energy your run all Torp dmg consoles and they are fine. Once you get a Quantum or Photon torp over 10k Base dmg they are just as viable as any beam build.
So the issue isn't really that as much as it is... traditional 1-2 torp ships that we see in the shows have always been sub par and mostly border on bad builds. Sure at one time a torp in PvP was a good idea... but they never increased DPS in PvE... and PvP has become less and less a game of timing so running just one torp in PvP is pretty silly as well.
They tried to address it with the Command Spec... and I think had they asked a few long time players their thoughts that spec would have been a lot better and a lot more useful at boosting the "standard" show style setups. This new set they are talking about might help as well...
I think what is really needed though is a change to console dmg boosts. As long as Torpedo and Energy Consoles are 2 different things it will never be optimal to run both at the same time.
The simple fix is to delete all the Rainbow consoles that boost all Cannons or All Beams or All torps... and just replace them with one universal console that boosts all Energy and All Torpedos the same amount as those consoles do now. The super min max spam beam builds would still be better off with what they got... a full stealth torp bomber would still be better off with same type torp consoles, although I run the +torp consoles on most of my torpedo boats so I can change rep torps around and such depending on what I need with no down side... its worth a small bit of dmg to be able to mix boosted rep torps together ect.
Anyway I have said it before in another thread... this is the simple fix for the standard trek build guys;
[Tactical Sub-System Regulator MK XII]
+ 20% Energy Weapon damage
+ 20% Kinetic Weapon damage
[Fleet Spire Tactical Sub System Regulator Vulnerability Exploiter MK XII] [+tssr]
+ 27.9% Energy Weapon damage
+ 27.9% Kinetic Weapon damage
+ 8% Critical Severity
[Fleet Spire Tactical Sub System Regulator Vulnerability Locator MK XII] [+tssr]
+ 27.9% Energy Weapon damage
+ 27.9% Kinetic Weapon damage
+ 1.6% Critical Chance
The same types would still be just enough more that the min maxers won't feel the need to swap... bit it will be a major boost for people wanting to run more trek style builds, and throw one or two torps on... and heck for some ships with just the right boff setups, they may even be just slightly optimal with the right Rep sets and spec.
So personally, I'd rather have to suffer Kemocite as it is than to see how they're going to top it next as an incentive to help sell Lockboxes and Keys.