Borg are overrated. They're always presented as an insurmountable threat that is then easily surmounted when Starfleet fights properly because they're idiots.
The Dominion weren't nearly as continually overhyped: they were always a severe but beatable threat.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Borg are overrated. They're always presented as an insurmountable threat that is then easily surmounted when Starfleet fights properly because they're idiots.
The Dominion weren't nearly as continually overhyped: they were always a severe but beatable threat.
Maybe it would have been better to put it as "pre voyager borg" or something? Those were the really nasty ones. Voyager just nerfed them into oblivion.
Borg are overrated. They're always presented as an insurmountable threat that is then easily surmounted when Starfleet fights properly because they're idiots.
The Dominion weren't nearly as continually overhyped: they were always a severe but beatable threat.
Maybe it would have been better to put it as "pre voyager borg" or something? Those were the really nasty ones. Voyager just nerfed them into oblivion.
Nah, they were always overrated. Seriously, did you see the beginning of "Emissary", with Starfleet running at it in ones and twos and getting torn apart ship by ship? Contrast the battle in First Contact where Starfleet swarmed it all at once and did much better: they had the cube at the point of shield failure by the time they reached Earth, and I'd wager they would have won even without the Enterprise if they'd had more time.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
I'm not sure, but I think shadowfang was trying to make a snarky comment about how weak they are in-game.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
no, i mean they literally don't have shields; or at the very least, i've never seen a shield flare on a borg vessel when one was fired on
and thanks to voyager, there were plenty being fired on
they do, but remember, the borg ships are massive. The Spheres alone are over 600 metres
What does their size have to do with if they have shields? Another bit of evidence I found that may indicate they have no shields (but very debatable) was when the Enterprise fired at the cube in Q-Who. They blasted three sizable chunks in it with no shield impact, although they may not have had them up.
The Borg seem to prefer using a type of shield that has all-or-nothing protection. Either the Borg know the frequency of the incoming energy weapon and can block it, or else it simply penetrates for the first shot (or few shots) until it is tuned to block that frequency as well. This seems to imply that Borg shields can block only a finite number of frequencies--enough to adapt to whatever is being thrown at them, but not enough to pre-emptively block off much of the possible spectrum.
Daleks obviously. Unless any of the other fleets have a ship capable of destroying reality itself!
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
"The meaning of victory is not to merely defeat your enemy but to destroy him, to completely eradicate him from living memory, to leave no remnant of his endeavours, to crush utterly his achievement and remove from all record his every trace of existence. From that defeat no enemy can ever recover. That is the meaning of victory."
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
They succeeded because they were the Federation, and they were not. They were the Anti-Federation, more so than the Terran Empire ever was.
To this date, we still don't know most about the Dominion. We know they exist, we know that with limited ships and shipyards they managed to fight a 2 year war against half of the Alpha and Beta Quadrants, and we know they are a collection of species who all serve the Founders in one way or another.
And like said by StarStorm, these guys were always a very real threat, but beatable. The problem with the Borg is that they were created unbeatable, so the BoBW way worked. And then TNG never beat them again until First Contact. When you create something unbeatable and keep beating it, you create, as teh Doctor said it, "the party-poopers of the galaxy". A species nobody takes serious at all.
I have to agree with calling the Dominion the best of the hostile factions.
For all intents and purposes, the Dominion is like the perfect storm. Ship making capability was described by the Klingons as "impressive", and they don't impress easily. The Jem'Hadar are almost perfect soldiers with no family ties (As they have no families), natural ability to camoflage themselves, and pretty much unquestioned loyalty so there is no chance of defection. Also... they're pretty much a clone army so no lack of soldiers.
The Federation hadn't seen a full on war since maybe the Cardassian wars (Unless that only counts as border skirmishes), and before that, probably the Earth-Romulan War in the 22nd Century. The undeclared war with the Borg doesn't really count because it is pretty much pure defensive. React to incursions, never going on the offensive since the Borg are from the Delta Quadrant.
Hell... The Defiant was the first pure combat ship designed by Starfleet, and she was meant to fight the Borg!
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
I consider the tensions between the Klingons and Federation starting with the Organian Treaty as basically a Cold War, which truely ended in ST6.
And the Fed-Cardassian Wars are apparently considered canon. http://en.memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Federation-Cardassian_War
When Janeway was a lieutenant, she took part in the defense of an outpost as apparently mentioned in the Voyager episode Prey. The time places her as being aboard the Al-Batani.
Captain Maxwell lost his whole family to the Cardassians, hence his revenge mission with the Phoenix that was stopped by the Enterprise-D.
Miles O'Brien was aboard the Rutledge during the Cardassian Wars.
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
Oh please, do any other fleets have a weapon that can match this?
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
i'm talking about the galaxy-spanning war from SFC1 and the ISC war of pacification from SFC2
That really doesn't count. I am familiar with them, but the problem is they aren't really canon as they are from computer games, which in turn were adapted from older tabletop games. In Canon, Starfleet really hasn't used missiles since the 22nd Century with the Spatial Torpedoes that were deployed on Enterprise. The Lyrans, Hydrans, and Mirak aren't canon (and the Mirak were a workaround for the copyright to the Kzinti), and fighters and Carriers were virturally unheard of. While they are fun games, they aren't really a basis to compare to canon events. They're kinda on the border of soft and non canon IMO. Otherwise the events of both Armada games, the events of both Elite Force games, and the events of SFC3 and Away Team should be considered as well. Although EF1 could be considered canon since it got Voyager closer to home and theres all kinds of crazy in the Delta Quadrant.
yes, actually; the dominion has bioengineered plagues - accomplishes the same thing and leaves the planet intact as a bonus
this is the goal of the Crucible, nothing as small minded and petty as destroying planets.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
yes, actually; the dominion has bioengineered plagues - accomplishes the same thing and leaves the planet intact as a bonus
this is the goal of the Crucible, nothing as small minded and petty as destroying planets.
that wasn't the xindi superweapon? never mind then; not like i could tell what it was, though, with the picture being so goddamn small you'd need a widescreen monitor to be able to see it clearly, and no way to enlarge it
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
Comments
I wanted to add the Galactic Empire, The Daleks, and Cyclones too. Of course others. lol
The Dominion weren't nearly as continually overhyped: they were always a severe but beatable threat.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Maybe it would have been better to put it as "pre voyager borg" or something? Those were the really nasty ones. Voyager just nerfed them into oblivion.
Nah, they were always overrated. Seriously, did you see the beginning of "Emissary", with Starfleet running at it in ones and twos and getting torn apart ship by ship? Contrast the battle in First Contact where Starfleet swarmed it all at once and did much better: they had the cube at the point of shield failure by the time they reached Earth, and I'd wager they would have won even without the Enterprise if they'd had more time.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
proof they dont have shields?
My character Tsin'xing
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
and thanks to voyager, there were plenty being fired on
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
they do, but remember, the borg ships are massive. The Spheres alone are over 600 metres
What does their size have to do with if they have shields? Another bit of evidence I found that may indicate they have no shields (but very debatable) was when the Enterprise fired at the cube in Q-Who. They blasted three sizable chunks in it with no shield impact, although they may not have had them up.
My character Tsin'xing
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
Borg, yo.
That reference, I get it.
They succeeded because they were the Federation, and they were not. They were the Anti-Federation, more so than the Terran Empire ever was.
To this date, we still don't know most about the Dominion. We know they exist, we know that with limited ships and shipyards they managed to fight a 2 year war against half of the Alpha and Beta Quadrants, and we know they are a collection of species who all serve the Founders in one way or another.
And like said by StarStorm, these guys were always a very real threat, but beatable. The problem with the Borg is that they were created unbeatable, so the BoBW way worked. And then TNG never beat them again until First Contact. When you create something unbeatable and keep beating it, you create, as teh Doctor said it, "the party-poopers of the galaxy". A species nobody takes serious at all.
Join the Deltas today!
For all intents and purposes, the Dominion is like the perfect storm. Ship making capability was described by the Klingons as "impressive", and they don't impress easily. The Jem'Hadar are almost perfect soldiers with no family ties (As they have no families), natural ability to camoflage themselves, and pretty much unquestioned loyalty so there is no chance of defection. Also... they're pretty much a clone army so no lack of soldiers.
The Federation hadn't seen a full on war since maybe the Cardassian wars (Unless that only counts as border skirmishes), and before that, probably the Earth-Romulan War in the 22nd Century. The undeclared war with the Borg doesn't really count because it is pretty much pure defensive. React to incursions, never going on the offensive since the Borg are from the Delta Quadrant.
Hell... The Defiant was the first pure combat ship designed by Starfleet, and she was meant to fight the Borg!
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
And the Fed-Cardassian Wars are apparently considered canon.
http://en.memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Federation-Cardassian_War
When Janeway was a lieutenant, she took part in the defense of an outpost as apparently mentioned in the Voyager episode Prey. The time places her as being aboard the Al-Batani.
Captain Maxwell lost his whole family to the Cardassians, hence his revenge mission with the Phoenix that was stopped by the Enterprise-D.
Miles O'Brien was aboard the Rutledge during the Cardassian Wars.
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
That really doesn't count. I am familiar with them, but the problem is they aren't really canon as they are from computer games, which in turn were adapted from older tabletop games. In Canon, Starfleet really hasn't used missiles since the 22nd Century with the Spatial Torpedoes that were deployed on Enterprise. The Lyrans, Hydrans, and Mirak aren't canon (and the Mirak were a workaround for the copyright to the Kzinti), and fighters and Carriers were virturally unheard of. While they are fun games, they aren't really a basis to compare to canon events. They're kinda on the border of soft and non canon IMO. Otherwise the events of both Armada games, the events of both Elite Force games, and the events of SFC3 and Away Team should be considered as well. Although EF1 could be considered canon since it got Voyager closer to home and theres all kinds of crazy in the Delta Quadrant.
this is the goal of the Crucible, nothing as small minded and petty as destroying planets.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"