Look, I get you have some radicalist need to get a Cardassian faction in the game, but if your just going to straw man everything I say, theres no point in confuting this.
Almost nothing you posted had anything to do with the point I had made, and the little that did, was stuff already disproved.
I just don't get your intense psychological need to get a Cardassian faction in the game somehow.
Look, I get you have some radicalist need to get a Cardassian faction in the game, but if your just going to straw man everything I say, theres no point in confuting this.
It's impossible to take you seriously anymore, you don't even know what an straw man is, but you definitely know what and ad hominen is, you keep using them in all your arguments.
The good news is, you don't need to convince him. A Cardassian faction doesn't depend on his agreement or approval. Although I don't recall his exact words, Geko actually said(in that P1 interview I referenced previously) something to the effect that a Cardassian faction is probably inevitable, eventually. So, chances are, it's going to happen. And there's absolutely nothing somtaawkhar can do about it
It's impossible to take you seriously anymore, you don't even know what an straw man is, but you definitely know what and ad hominen is, you keep using them in all your arguments.
"A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument which was not advanced by that opponent."
Literally your entire post. Especially everything in the last section. All you did was refuse points I never made, and have specifically stated previously that I was not making. I just don't know how I can make it more clear, but you don't seem to want to try.
-Premise 1: Romulans have access to their allies' shipyards giving them the most ships.
Rebuttal: No they don't, this series of in-game data prove they don't.
Where is the straw man?
-Premise 2: I have thus acted the way you have treated me thus far
Rebuttal: I've never insulted you, but you did insult me, that means you didn't treat me the same way I treated you.
Where is the straw man?
-Premise 3: we twisted gecko's words
Rebuttal: no we didn't, check the previous posts.
Where is the straw man?
-New argument, not a rebuttal.
-Premise 4: they aren't going to edit the new missions post LoR
Rebuttal: there is no need to edit new missions post LoR.
Where is the straw man?
You quoted wikipedia, but you do not understand the meaning of those words.
1. You counted the Roms ship numbers separate from the Feds, when they intact share ships. So your math is wrong in deducing total ship numbers.
2. I never said you insulted me, if you actually read my comment instead of using straw mans you would have seen it was directed to the thread in general.
3. I have checked the previous post, and your statements does intact twist his words, because it willfully ignores everything else Gecko has said about making a Cardy faction, thus meaning you took his words out of context.
4. You DO need to edit post LoR missions, as, again, no one mentions the Cardassians getting attacked, so them getting attacked, and joining the Feds/Klinks against the Iconians wouldn't make sense in the narrative.
The straw man is, again, everything you said, because you have, once again, chosen to take everything out of content, and ignored basic plot development standards, all for your fan-thoery.
Again, I don't understand why you are so desperate to have the Cardassians be a playable faction in the game that you would go to such lengths.
1- My math is right, I counted the amount of ships Romulans have (62+4 small craft) and then added the amount of ships they get when they join a faction (25 klingon ships or 26 federation ships) which means they have access to 91 or 92 ships depending on the faction they choose, which is not the most number of playable ships.
2- if it was directed to the general thread why did you use the pronoun "you" instead of "I have thus acted the way people have treated me thus far"? everything in your sentence indicates you are referring to me directly.
3-That's a blatant lie.
4-They said they are not going to edit missions post LoR, the story can still be modified just by adding new missions, there is no need to edit anything.
Wow, so everything I said is an straw man? you do not understand what an straw man is.
Right now I'm not arguing on favor of a new Cardassian faction, I'm just destroying your ridiculous arguments again and again and exposing you lies again and again, so please keep the replies coming.
im kinda regretting starting this. was hoping it would remain civil. silly me.
can a mod lock this? I dont want this to get out of hand.
Well, as I was wasting time reading the drivel somtalker posted... I pondered how much the devs would need to do to create ships for a Dominion faction. People often point at how many ships we have as various lockbox and promo items, but.... here's a list: Original Bug ship HECarrier Dread Carrier Bugship 2(has mixed command/intel seats)
Only one of which is T6.
The sets of stats and special gadgets could remain unique to the lockbox versions, but reusing the models is almost a given. One interesting thing to note is that all of them are tactical ships. It'd be interesting to see what the devs could come up with if they went the "Dark Federation" routes and added ships from the various member races too. The Wadi.... might be a member, and had interesting tech. They seem like a natural choice for science ships.
To anyone proclaiming that the Cardassians must be a wholly unaligned faction... you need to accept that based on the way that the game was designed (and how the factions within it work) that it would be too expensive to go through the entire game code and add a completely separate faction. Whereas adding a Cardassian mini-faction (which I 100% support) is more or less a copypaste of the coding for the Romulan mini-faction. Every single social zone, adventure zone, multi-faction mission (Skirmish among others), every piece of gear, everything in the game would need to be edited at the code level. It's not going to happen.
With that massive requirement done, the only thing left for the devs is to augment existing Cardassian ships to be playable, develop a dozen or so more ships, and add Cardassia zones as well as a Cardassian beginning story line. This is all no small feat. However, they can save themselves a massive amount of work by making it a mini-faction as opposed to a full fledged 3rd faction.
The problem with a new mini faction is the choice of alignment. The Klingon faction has never been a 50/50 partner in play time. ( more likely 10/90 ). This was so lopsided that all battle play was changed to allowed Klingon playing in fed pairings. A new mini faction would 90% align with fed fleets like the romulans have. To move the romulan and new mini factions to a Klingon fleet alignment only would make the RED ON BLUE game code work again. ( this red on blue game code cannot be changed, you would need to wipe out all existing game content, not simply rewrite it. )
The sets of stats and special gadgets could remain unique to the lockbox versions, but reusing the models is almost a given. One interesting thing to note is that all of them are tactical ships. It'd be interesting to see what the devs could come up with if they went the "Dark Federation" routes and added ships from the various member races too. The Wadi.... might be a member, and had interesting tech. They seem like a natural choice for science ships.
I've probably been the only person on the forums to actively dislike the idea of a Dominion faction (or at least the most vocal about it)...
...but if they did go the "Dark Federation" route in full then I'd gladly sign up for a daily dose of Ketracel white. I still think it would be pretty difficult to work the Dominion into most, if not all, existing multi-faction mission series (ex. Iconian War, what's the point of Sela's bit if there's DOM captains on ESD?) but a Dominion faction that's more than just bimodal clones would totally be worth it.
I'd also go with that version of the Dominion over the Cardassians (which I still feel hit too many of the same chords as the Romulans. Ruined homeworld, rebuilding former militaristic empire, unreconstructed elements plaguing said reconstruction. There's differences in tone, surely, but for a new mini-faction I'd definitely like a bit more than variations on a theme.)
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
1. You counted the Roms ship numbers without taking into account a number of cross faction ships, promo ships, event ships, lockbox ships, etc. etc. Skewing the numbers.
2. I never said you insulted me, if you actually read my comment instead of using straw mans you would have seen it was directed to the thread in general.
3. I have checked the previous post, and your statements does intact twist his words, because it willfully ignores everything else Gecko has said about making a Cardy faction, thus meaning you took his words out of context.
4. You DO need to edit post LoR missions, as, again, no one mentions the Cardassians getting attacked, so them getting attacked, and joining the Feds/Klinks against the Iconians wouldn't make sense in the narrative.
The straw man is, again, everything you said, because you have, once again, chosen to take everything out of content, and ignored basic plot development standards, all for your fan-thoery.
Again, I don't understand why you are so desperate to have the Cardassians be a playable faction in the game that you would go to such lengths.
And every other comment Somtaawkhar made in this thread...
And since you seem to be missing basic social skills (this is coming from someone with autism btw), that is what most people refer to as an "insult".
Now that that is out in the open:
I personally hope for some sort of Alpha Quadrant Coalition, like what was talked about earlier in this thread. Not sure if it would make sense to have Jem'Hadar and Vorta in there, but the Cardassian allies which were referenced to earlier in this thread would most certainly be candidates for this alliance. That would also give the opportunity for more ships.
Maybe former/descendants of Maquis would be make more sense than the renegade Bajorans that were named earlier? It could be part of the Cardassians trying to smooth relations with them.
All in all, I would be really happy with a playable Cardassian faction
The good news is, you don't need to convince him. A Cardassian faction doesn't depend on his agreement or approval. Although I don't recall his exact words, Geko actually said(in that P1 interview I referenced previously) something to the effect that a Cardassian faction is probably inevitable, eventually. So, chances are, it's going to happen. And there's absolutely nothing somtaawkhar can do about it
It might not be the same interview but at one point it was mentioned the first step in implementing the faction would be returning the story to that area of space and revamping the Cardassian arc, which is exactly what is about to happen.
Doesn't guarantee the faction is imminent but it certainly should be setting off our collective alarm bells. Yellow alert, potential incoming Spoonheads.
Can we please start using popinjay instead of straw man? We're well past decorum in this thread but a touch of olde English might inject a bit of class into this discussion.
The sets of stats and special gadgets could remain unique to the lockbox versions, but reusing the models is almost a given. One interesting thing to note is that all of them are tactical ships. It'd be interesting to see what the devs could come up with if they went the "Dark Federation" routes and added ships from the various member races too. The Wadi.... might be a member, and had interesting tech. They seem like a natural choice for science ships.
I've probably been the only person on the forums to actively dislike the idea of a Dominion faction (or at least the most vocal about it)...
...but if they did go the "Dark Federation" route in full then I'd gladly sign up for a daily dose of Ketracel white. I still think it would be pretty difficult to work the Dominion into most, if not all, existing multi-faction mission series (ex. Iconian War, what's the point of Sela's bit if there's DOM captains on ESD?) but a Dominion faction that's more than just bimodal clones would totally be worth it.
I'd also go with that version of the Dominion over the Cardassians (which I still feel hit too many of the same chords as the Romulans. Ruined homeworld, rebuilding former militaristic empire, unreconstructed elements plaguing said reconstruction. There's differences in tone, surely, but for a new mini-faction I'd definitely like a bit more than variations on a theme.)
Yeah, rewriting the story is one of the top things to consider here. Any way you go will require rather extensive tweaks.
The good news is, you don't need to convince him. A Cardassian faction doesn't depend on his agreement or approval. Although I don't recall his exact words, Geko actually said(in that P1 interview I referenced previously) something to the effect that a Cardassian faction is probably inevitable, eventually. So, chances are, it's going to happen. And there's absolutely nothing somtaawkhar can do about it
The Nagus is wise!
If it makes this small person who probably gets beat up a lot in real life feel superior by name calling and asserting his opinion with a feeble argument, I say let him do so.
Thanks for the expansion that had "as much content as the last"
9 Episodes = 30+ episodes...?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
It's pronounced "S.T.O." "Stow" sounds idiotic! lol
Couldn't they make the Cardassians a third faction by using the same type of programming they use for npc enemy ships and characters? Or is the program for that too different from the player program?
"There is iron in your words of death for all Comanche to see, and so there is iron in your words of life. No signed paper can hold the iron. It must come from men. The words of Ten Bears carries the same iron of life and death. It is good that warriors such as we meet in the struggle of life... or death. It shall be life." - Ten Bears (Will Sampson)
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
did someone actually SAY ten thousand years in that episode or did the guy who made the entry just pick a date in the distant past that sounded sufficiently distant?
it's been well over a year since i saw the first half of DS9 and i don't have an eidetic memory, so i wouldn't actually know
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
Comments
Irate Bajoran detected.
The good news is, you don't need to convince him. A Cardassian faction doesn't depend on his agreement or approval. Although I don't recall his exact words, Geko actually said(in that P1 interview I referenced previously) something to the effect that a Cardassian faction is probably inevitable, eventually. So, chances are, it's going to happen. And there's absolutely nothing somtaawkhar can do about it
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
-Premise 1: Romulans have access to their allies' shipyards giving them the most ships.
Rebuttal: No they don't, this series of in-game data prove they don't.
Where is the straw man?
-Premise 2: I have thus acted the way you have treated me thus far
Rebuttal: I've never insulted you, but you did insult me, that means you didn't treat me the same way I treated you.
Where is the straw man?
-Premise 3: we twisted gecko's words
Rebuttal: no we didn't, check the previous posts.
Where is the straw man?
-New argument, not a rebuttal.
-Premise 4: they aren't going to edit the new missions post LoR
Rebuttal: there is no need to edit new missions post LoR.
Where is the straw man?
You quoted wikipedia, but you do not understand the meaning of those words.
1- My math is right, I counted the amount of ships Romulans have (62+4 small craft) and then added the amount of ships they get when they join a faction (25 klingon ships or 26 federation ships) which means they have access to 91 or 92 ships depending on the faction they choose, which is not the most number of playable ships.
2- if it was directed to the general thread why did you use the pronoun "you" instead of "I have thus acted the way people have treated me thus far"? everything in your sentence indicates you are referring to me directly.
3-That's a blatant lie.
4-They said they are not going to edit missions post LoR, the story can still be modified just by adding new missions, there is no need to edit anything.
Wow, so everything I said is an straw man? you do not understand what an straw man is.
Right now I'm not arguing on favor of a new Cardassian faction, I'm just destroying your ridiculous arguments again and again and exposing you lies again and again, so please keep the replies coming.
can a mod lock this? I dont want this to get out of hand.
Original Bug ship
HECarrier
Dread Carrier
Bugship 2(has mixed command/intel seats)
Only one of which is T6.
The sets of stats and special gadgets could remain unique to the lockbox versions, but reusing the models is almost a given. One interesting thing to note is that all of them are tactical ships. It'd be interesting to see what the devs could come up with if they went the "Dark Federation" routes and added ships from the various member races too. The Wadi.... might be a member, and had interesting tech. They seem like a natural choice for science ships.
My character Tsin'xing
The problem with a new mini faction is the choice of alignment. The Klingon faction has never been a 50/50 partner in play time. ( more likely 10/90 ). This was so lopsided that all battle play was changed to allowed Klingon playing in fed pairings. A new mini faction would 90% align with fed fleets like the romulans have. To move the romulan and new mini factions to a Klingon fleet alignment only would make the RED ON BLUE game code work again. ( this red on blue game code cannot be changed, you would need to wipe out all existing game content, not simply rewrite it. )
I've probably been the only person on the forums to actively dislike the idea of a Dominion faction (or at least the most vocal about it)...
...but if they did go the "Dark Federation" route in full then I'd gladly sign up for a daily dose of Ketracel white. I still think it would be pretty difficult to work the Dominion into most, if not all, existing multi-faction mission series (ex. Iconian War, what's the point of Sela's bit if there's DOM captains on ESD?) but a Dominion faction that's more than just bimodal clones would totally be worth it.
I'd also go with that version of the Dominion over the Cardassians (which I still feel hit too many of the same chords as the Romulans. Ruined homeworld, rebuilding former militaristic empire, unreconstructed elements plaguing said reconstruction. There's differences in tone, surely, but for a new mini-faction I'd definitely like a bit more than variations on a theme.)
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
And every other comment Somtaawkhar made in this thread...
And since you seem to be missing basic social skills (this is coming from someone with autism btw), that is what most people refer to as an "insult".
Now that that is out in the open:
I personally hope for some sort of Alpha Quadrant Coalition, like what was talked about earlier in this thread. Not sure if it would make sense to have Jem'Hadar and Vorta in there, but the Cardassian allies which were referenced to earlier in this thread would most certainly be candidates for this alliance. That would also give the opportunity for more ships.
Maybe former/descendants of Maquis would be make more sense than the renegade Bajorans that were named earlier? It could be part of the Cardassians trying to smooth relations with them.
All in all, I would be really happy with a playable Cardassian faction
It might not be the same interview but at one point it was mentioned the first step in implementing the faction would be returning the story to that area of space and revamping the Cardassian arc, which is exactly what is about to happen.
Doesn't guarantee the faction is imminent but it certainly should be setting off our collective alarm bells. Yellow alert, potential incoming Spoonheads.
My character Tsin'xing
The Nagus is wise!
If it makes this small person who probably gets beat up a lot in real life feel superior by name calling and asserting his opinion with a feeble argument, I say let him do so.
9 Episodes = 30+ episodes...?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
It's pronounced "S.T.O." "Stow" sounds idiotic! lol
someone wanna tell me where the 10,000 is in that?
the dominion is NOT 10,000 years old
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
it's been well over a year since i saw the first half of DS9 and i don't have an eidetic memory, so i wouldn't actually know
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
come with different consoles as commonly happens
since in the new missions there are ships that are characters, and are very different from the galor class and keldon class
I think that if they make a faction more like the Romulans, the Jem'Hadar mess like Remans
Cirran