The devs have already sad a Cardassian faction would be improbable due to their ships being in lockboxes.
Nope, that is completely wrong. The last time they did talk about a new faction, that I can recall, was Geko on P1 earlier this year. He mentioned 4 possibilities: Cardassian, Dominion, Mirror Universe, Liberated Borg. He would not mention the Cardassians(or Dominion for that matter) as a main contender for the next faction if he thought it would be "improbable" for them to be a faction in the first place.
"before the Xindi or Kobali existed in lore" is irrelevant, they have existed in-continuity before they were featured in the lore. That's how continuities work.
Uhh no, continuities work by accepting that video game, tv show, movie, and novel development works on a linear timeframe, and thus previews entries in the franchise can't be used as a representation of everything that did exist at the time in lore.
Especially when later episodes either directly show, or state, otherwise, which always happened as more races got introduced, and more and more races were implied to be destined to join the federation in the future.
Seriously, what backwards world do you live in?
I think he got confused when after a long work day I put Yesterdays Enterprise instead of Temporal Ambassador, an honest mistake although his reaction was ridiculously OTT considering almost everyone else who's commented figured out what I meant.
Then your memory is pretty fuzzy, as Gecko has brought up the lockbox problem several times in regards to Cardassian and Dominion factions.
When are you referring to? Before or after the P1 interview a few months ago where he mentioned 4 possible contenders for a new faction, both Card and Dom being 2 of them? If you are referring to something prior to that P1 interview, he seems to have changed his mind. If you are referring to something after, then what source?
Then your memory is pretty fuzzy, as Gecko has brought up the lockbox problem several times in regards to Cardassian and Dominion factions.
The lockbox problem is very easy to overcome, there is just one Cardassian lockbox ship, the Galor class, it's been mentioned several times that they can just rename the lockbox Galor (for example True Way Galor) and give it an special console and make a new Galor with different stats for the new Cardassian faction.
When are you referring to? Before or after the P1 interview a few months ago where he mentioned 4 possible contenders for a new faction, both Card and Dom being 2 of them? If you are referring to something prior to that P1 interview, he seems to have changed his mind. If you are referring to something after, then what source?
I'm going to go real slow for you.
Gecko's statements
Do not
Change the fact
That those factions
Have technical hurdles
That make them indefeasible.
He was simply making a statement of "if we did another faction these are the top contenders". That does not mean he changed his mind, or that those hurdles have been overcome. It is mere a statement of "if".
Its honestly mind boggling how you people can be so devoted to your fan-fiction ideas that your willing to go so far to misinterpret basic English sentences.
Why are you so fanatical to this idea that you are willing to go so far?
Two points, 1. It's not a technical hurdle at all, it's a marketing one.
2. No one in this thread has been fanatical, in fact you're the most fanatical with how dead set against it you are.
He was simply making a statement of "if we did another faction these are the top contenders". That does not mean he changed his mind, or that those hurdles have been overcome. It is mere a statement of "if".
I understand it was a hypothetical statement. But my point remains, he would not be mentioning Cards and Dom as 2 of the 4 main contenders if he truly believed they were unrealistic options. While there may be some things they would need to figure out, he obviously does not think they would prevent them from making a Card or Dom faction if they decide to do so.
Except it is a technical hurdle, having to invented new, but also workable, stats, boff seatings, and console layouts that make the galor use able, but still worse then the lockbox version, but also equal to Fed/Rom/Klink ships of the same tier, is a technical hurdle.
So, your definition of a "technical hurdle" is just plain old "development", because they develop new ships and adjust existing ships all the time. So if that is indeed a hurdle, it is fortunately one that they have jumped many times before.
Two points, 1. It's not a technical hurdle at all, it's a marketing one.
2. No one in this thread has been fanatical, in fact you're the most fanatical with how dead set against it you are.
Except it is a technical hurdle, having to invented new, but also workable, stats, boff seatings, and console layouts that make the galor use able, but still worse then the lockbox version, but also equal to Fed/Rom/Klink ships of the same tier, is a technical hurdle.
The sheer amount of lying and desperation tactics in favor of the Cardy faction disagrees about people being fanatical.
Designing a new ship isn't a big enough technical hurdle to stop a faction being made, if it was we wouldn't have new ships being released at least once a month, hell if designing a ship was a big enough technical hurdle to stop a faction being made we're never getting another faction ever.
There's no lying or desperation tactics either, people are making well reasoned arguments, meanwhile you called me delusional over a minor slip up on the last page, you're also talking down to people and seem to be treating others like idiots because they have a different point of view.
So, your definition of a "technical hurdle" is just plain old "development", because they develop new ships and adjust existing ships all the time. So if that is indeed a hurdle, it is fortunately one that they have jumped many times before.
Except making new ships is nothing like having to redo old ones.
Once again, they have done both before. They have made new ships. They have adjusted existing ships. They are obviously quite capable of doing both. So if that is your definition of a "hurdle", they have already proven they can easily jump it.
They didn't rewrite the Path to 2409 when they added the Republic.
They did change big chunks of the in-game story, though. Pre-LoR (even with the New Romulus reputation introduced in S7), there was absolutely nothing in any dialogue, anywhere, to suggest the existence of a Romulan Republic. Heck, Romulan ships that were allied with us (such as that one NPC ship in ANR) were still labeled "I.R.W." instead of "R.R.W."; thus, S7 essentially led us to believe that D'tan's group was merely a rebel faction within the existing Romulan Star Empire. It wasn't until LoR that Cryptic said that, no, they were actually a completely separate political entity that had existed since before the Borg attack on Vega (and added dialogue to some older missions to that effect, as bioixi mentioned). Clearly, this was a retcon.
And the fact that they didn't retcon the Path before doesn't mean that they still can't do it now. Cryptic has shown a willingness to retcon stuff in general, and there's every possibility that they'd do so for a Cardassian expansion. Clearly, they don't treat their backstory as sacrosanct, so I see absolutely no reason they wouldn't retcon it if need be. That was all I was saying: if Cryptic wants to introduce a Cardassian faction, they aren't gonna let a little thing like backstory stop them. They'll figure a way around it, just like they did with the Republic.
I can't imagine what makes anyone believe that Cryptic is capable of properly delivering on yet another faction, considering the history (and present state) of non-Fed factions in STO.
Once again, they have done both before. They have made new ships. They have adjusted existing ships. They are obviously quite capable of doing both. So if that is your definition of a "hurdle", they have already proven they can easily jump it.
Totally different situation entirely. If you can't see that, then you really are mentally handicapped.
There's no lying or desperation tactics either, people are making well reasoned arguments, meanwhile you called me delusional over a minor slip up on the last page, you're also talking down to people and seem to be treating others like idiots because they have a different point of view.
I treat people the way they act.
If you chose to be an idiot, and try to make up justifications that anyone who has even studied the basics of game design can disprove, and outright lie in order to try to push an agenda, I will treat you as such.
Designing a new ship isn't a big enough technical hurdle to stop a faction being made, if it was we wouldn't have new ships being released at least once a month, hell if designing a ship was a big enough technical hurdle to stop a faction being made we're never getting another faction ever.
No one said designing a new ship is the problem.
Nice straw man though. I could tell you didn't care for civil or honest debate some time ago, but this is the nail in the coffin.
You wanna call me a liar, you want to say I'm pushing an agenda, prove it, point out my lies, point out where I'm pushing my agenda, give me reasons as to why we are wrong about why putting out a slightly different galor is a massive hurdle.
All's you've done for the last few posts is say we're wrong and insult us, stop that and give us actual reasons for why we deserve to be treated that way.
"before the Xindi or Kobali existed in lore" is irrelevant, they have existed in-continuity before they were featured in the lore. That's how continuities work.
Uhh no, continuities work by accepting that video game, tv show, movie, and novel development works on a linear timeframe, and thus previews entries in the franchise can't be used as a representation of everything that did exist at the time in lore.
Especially when later episodes either directly show, or state, otherwise, which always happened as more races got introduced, and more and more races were implied to be destined to join the federation in the future.
Seriously, what backwards world do you live in?
Continuities are entire universes. Most are presented to have many things in them that haven't been cataloged into its medium yet. For instance, if a setting takes place on Earth, that very fact implies that the Earth it takes place in has every aspect that real life Earth has unless the author uses contrary elements. By extension, people, places, and things of alternative varieties to real life may also be acknowledged to exist.
If alien alliances exist within the presented portion of the continuity, the implication that alien species that exist within and outside those alliances is also present. Once an alien race is revealed, its presence in that continuity has also been revealed. If they have existed for millions of years, presumably if the media hasn't cataloged those millions of years, they have been established to have existed before the media has documented anything. Essentially, with an in-universe perspective, they'd have existed before the time the story unfolded(aka usually when the fiction begins depicting the continuity)
Basically, if you go in the story and tell a Xindi that they didn't exist before they attacked Earth, the Xindi would prove you wrong using Xindi records.
Unless you're talking about the fact that the Xindi or Kobali didn't exist IRL before they were introduced. But if you meant that, you've completely missed that what was being discussed was in-continuity, not the state of the continuity in the perspective of real life. Real life discussion of continuity as a fiction≠in-universe discussion of continuity as a whole continuum.
So, your definition of a "technical hurdle" is just plain old "development", because they develop new ships and adjust existing ships all the time. So if that is indeed a hurdle, it is fortunately one that they have jumped many times before.
Except making new ships is nothing like having to redo old ones.
Seriously, do you ever think at all before you speak?
Do you think before you speak?
You know nothing of basic debate, in fact you know little of basic decorum and politeness, how dare you talk down on people who are just sharing a view point just as valid as yours?
I'm really getting tired of reading your replies, you accuse people of being fanatics, you accuse people of lying, but when presented with evidence you make up your own story and reply with a ridiculous amount of arrogance trying to convince people that everyone is crazy and delusional.
I'm beginning to believe you are just trying to convince yourself, because you are definitely not convincing anyone with your aggressive and despective replies, you are only putting yourself in evidence while losing all your credibility at the same time.
you can't just call people delusional and fanatic just for disagreeing with you and expect someone to take your opinion seriously the next time you argue about something.
Right now I don't know if I should feel angry at you or feel pity for you.
Next time you reply I hope you do it like a civilized human, considering other people's opinions not as something to despise, but as something to rebut with logic and evidence in a calm and polite manner.
So, your definition of a "technical hurdle" is just plain old "development", because they develop new ships and adjust existing ships all the time. So if that is indeed a hurdle, it is fortunately one that they have jumped many times before.
Except making new ships is nothing like having to redo old ones.
Seriously, do you ever think at all before you speak?
Do you think before you speak?
You know nothing of basic debate, in fact you know little of basic decorum and politeness, how dare you talk down on people who are just sharing a view point just as valid as yours?
I'm really getting tired of reading your replies, you accuse people of being fanatics, you accuse people of lying, but when presented with evidence you make up your own story and reply with a ridiculous amount of arrogance trying to convince people that everyone is crazy and delusional.
I'm beginning to believe you are just trying to convince yourself, because you are definitely not convincing anyone with your aggressive and despective replies, you are only putting yourself in evidence while losing all your credibility at the same time.
you can't just call people delusional and fanatic just for disagreeing with you and expect someone to take your opinion seriously the next time you argue about something.
Right now I don't know if I should feel angry at you or feel pity for you.
Next time you reply I hope you do it like a civilized human, considering other people's opinions not as something to despise, but as something to rebut with logic and evidence in a calm and polite manner.
Thank you, I just had to step away from my laptop so I wouldn't post something I regret and this is pretty much the feeling I wanted to get in my next post but put far better than the way I would with how I was feeling.
I don't normally get wound up over stuff like this but being called delusional over a mistake followed by a liar and the (false) claim I'm pushing an agenda was enough to push me.
As it stands now, Romulans and Feds have the exact same number of story missions. With the Cardassian revamp, Romulans actually are going to end up with more Story Missions then either the Feds or Klingons do, as well as access to their own shipyards, but the shipyards of their allies also, giving them the most ships as well.
Only ships from tier 1 to 4 ships can be bought by Romulans.
(the following number might be an approximation because there were just too many ships to count and I might have made a mistake, still I expect a maximum variant of +/-3)
Federation:
11 small craft
26 ships from Tier 1 to tier 4.
102 ships from tier 5 to 6 (+2 tier 6 ships incoming)
Total: 139 playable ships
Klingon:
5 small craft
25 ships from tier 1 to tier 4
58 ships from tier 5 to 6
Total: 88 playable ships
Romulans:
4 small craft
62 ships (52 are from tiers 5 to 6)
total: 91-92 playable ships
they do not have the most ships, they have 3-4 more ships than the klingons (but less high tier ships) and far less ships than the federation.
You know nothing of basic debate, in fact you know little of basic decorum and politeness, how dare you talk down on people who are just sharing a view point just as valid as yours?
Basic debate, decorum, and politeness, requires one only to act as well as they are being treated by the other party.
I have thus acted the way you have treated me thus far. As I said before, you don't like it, stop acting that way.
Have I ever insulted you? because you did, several times.
I'm really getting tired of reading your replies, you accuse people of being fanatics, you accuse people of lying, but when presented with evidence you make up your own story and reply with a ridiculous amount of arrogance trying to convince people that everyone is crazy and delusional.
The problem is no one has presented evidence.
-All the "but G-G-GECKO SAID!" arguments have only been pushed by twisting his words around into something they aren't
-All the "B-B-BUT THEY HAVE MADE NEW SHIPS BEFORE!" arguments totally ignore that no one has argued that making new ships is hard, its having to deal with the lockbox variant, by making the free version worse, but still usable at its tier.
-All the "B-B-BUT THEY CAN MAKE UP NEW STORY AND EDIT THE OLD MISSIONS!" totally ignores the fact they have already said they aren't going to edit the new missions post LoR, and that none of these new missions make mention of the Cardassians getting attacked, joining the alliance, or anything else that would be needed to set up a proper narrative hook to get the Cardies in the war.
I WISH someone would provide actual strong evidence in favor of a Cardassian faction, I would love to have one, but so far, no one has. Its all been desperation ploys.
-If Gecko said there are 4 potential candidates for a new faction and the cardassians are one of the candidates then he said that, no-one is twisting his words, no-one here said that his words confirm a new faction and that the new faction will be cardassian, all we said is that a new faction is a possibility as Gecko mentioned, you however stated that a cardassian faction is unfeasible with no real proof at all.
-I see no problem with that at all, it's one ship, they've made refits, retrofits and whateverfits of existing ships several times.
-Ok, lets believe for a moment you are right about them saying that, and that their statement is definitive, meaning that they will never change post LoR missions no matter how much people threatens to kill some puppies and take down the government, so what? they don't need to edit anything post LoR they can ADD a new storyline without having to edit existing missions, they can ADD a "proper narrative hook to get the Cardies in the war" like they did with the Romulans, they created several story arcs and a whole new storyline to get the Romulans in-game.
In fact it would make sense to do that, because right now nothing explains why the Cardassians joined the Iconian war, we just know that they did (don't repeat that stupid one ship one guy argument again because I have pictures of a tactical map showing Cardassian ship deployment in the beta quadrant, straight from Blood of the ancients).
Look, I get you have some radicalist need to get a Cardassian faction in the game, but if your just going to straw man everything I say, theres no point in confuting this.
It's impossible to take you seriously anymore, you don't even know what an straw man is, but you definitely know what and ad hominen is, you keep using them in all your arguments.
Comments
Nope, that is completely wrong. The last time they did talk about a new faction, that I can recall, was Geko on P1 earlier this year. He mentioned 4 possibilities: Cardassian, Dominion, Mirror Universe, Liberated Borg. He would not mention the Cardassians(or Dominion for that matter) as a main contender for the next faction if he thought it would be "improbable" for them to be a faction in the first place.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
I think he got confused when after a long work day I put Yesterdays Enterprise instead of Temporal Ambassador, an honest mistake although his reaction was ridiculously OTT considering almost everyone else who's commented figured out what I meant.
When are you referring to? Before or after the P1 interview a few months ago where he mentioned 4 possible contenders for a new faction, both Card and Dom being 2 of them? If you are referring to something prior to that P1 interview, he seems to have changed his mind. If you are referring to something after, then what source?
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
The lockbox problem is very easy to overcome, there is just one Cardassian lockbox ship, the Galor class, it's been mentioned several times that they can just rename the lockbox Galor (for example True Way Galor) and give it an special console and make a new Galor with different stats for the new Cardassian faction.
Two points, 1. It's not a technical hurdle at all, it's a marketing one.
2. No one in this thread has been fanatical, in fact you're the most fanatical with how dead set against it you are.
I understand it was a hypothetical statement. But my point remains, he would not be mentioning Cards and Dom as 2 of the 4 main contenders if he truly believed they were unrealistic options. While there may be some things they would need to figure out, he obviously does not think they would prevent them from making a Card or Dom faction if they decide to do so.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
So, your definition of a "technical hurdle" is just plain old "development", because they develop new ships and adjust existing ships all the time. So if that is indeed a hurdle, it is fortunately one that they have jumped many times before.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Designing a new ship isn't a big enough technical hurdle to stop a faction being made, if it was we wouldn't have new ships being released at least once a month, hell if designing a ship was a big enough technical hurdle to stop a faction being made we're never getting another faction ever.
There's no lying or desperation tactics either, people are making well reasoned arguments, meanwhile you called me delusional over a minor slip up on the last page, you're also talking down to people and seem to be treating others like idiots because they have a different point of view.
Once again, they have done both before. They have made new ships. They have adjusted existing ships. They are obviously quite capable of doing both. So if that is your definition of a "hurdle", they have already proven they can easily jump it.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
They did change big chunks of the in-game story, though. Pre-LoR (even with the New Romulus reputation introduced in S7), there was absolutely nothing in any dialogue, anywhere, to suggest the existence of a Romulan Republic. Heck, Romulan ships that were allied with us (such as that one NPC ship in ANR) were still labeled "I.R.W." instead of "R.R.W."; thus, S7 essentially led us to believe that D'tan's group was merely a rebel faction within the existing Romulan Star Empire. It wasn't until LoR that Cryptic said that, no, they were actually a completely separate political entity that had existed since before the Borg attack on Vega (and added dialogue to some older missions to that effect, as bioixi mentioned). Clearly, this was a retcon.
And the fact that they didn't retcon the Path before doesn't mean that they still can't do it now. Cryptic has shown a willingness to retcon stuff in general, and there's every possibility that they'd do so for a Cardassian expansion. Clearly, they don't treat their backstory as sacrosanct, so I see absolutely no reason they wouldn't retcon it if need be. That was all I was saying: if Cryptic wants to introduce a Cardassian faction, they aren't gonna let a little thing like backstory stop them. They'll figure a way around it, just like they did with the Republic.
If by "totally different" you mean "exactly the same", then you are right
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
You wanna call me a liar, you want to say I'm pushing an agenda, prove it, point out my lies, point out where I'm pushing my agenda, give me reasons as to why we are wrong about why putting out a slightly different galor is a massive hurdle.
All's you've done for the last few posts is say we're wrong and insult us, stop that and give us actual reasons for why we deserve to be treated that way.
You can't be that daft. I refuse to believe it's possible.
If alien alliances exist within the presented portion of the continuity, the implication that alien species that exist within and outside those alliances is also present. Once an alien race is revealed, its presence in that continuity has also been revealed. If they have existed for millions of years, presumably if the media hasn't cataloged those millions of years, they have been established to have existed before the media has documented anything. Essentially, with an in-universe perspective, they'd have existed before the time the story unfolded(aka usually when the fiction begins depicting the continuity)
Basically, if you go in the story and tell a Xindi that they didn't exist before they attacked Earth, the Xindi would prove you wrong using Xindi records.
Unless you're talking about the fact that the Xindi or Kobali didn't exist IRL before they were introduced. But if you meant that, you've completely missed that what was being discussed was in-continuity, not the state of the continuity in the perspective of real life. Real life discussion of continuity as a fiction≠in-universe discussion of continuity as a whole continuum.
Helpful Tools: Dictionary.com - Logical fallacies - Random generator - Word generator - Color tool - Extra Credits - List of common English language errors - New T6 Big booty tutorial
Do you think before you speak?
You know nothing of basic debate, in fact you know little of basic decorum and politeness, how dare you talk down on people who are just sharing a view point just as valid as yours?
I'm really getting tired of reading your replies, you accuse people of being fanatics, you accuse people of lying, but when presented with evidence you make up your own story and reply with a ridiculous amount of arrogance trying to convince people that everyone is crazy and delusional.
I'm beginning to believe you are just trying to convince yourself, because you are definitely not convincing anyone with your aggressive and despective replies, you are only putting yourself in evidence while losing all your credibility at the same time.
you can't just call people delusional and fanatic just for disagreeing with you and expect someone to take your opinion seriously the next time you argue about something.
Right now I don't know if I should feel angry at you or feel pity for you.
Next time you reply I hope you do it like a civilized human, considering other people's opinions not as something to despise, but as something to rebut with logic and evidence in a calm and polite manner.
Thank you, I just had to step away from my laptop so I wouldn't post something I regret and this is pretty much the feeling I wanted to get in my next post but put far better than the way I would with how I was feeling.
I don't normally get wound up over stuff like this but being called delusional over a mistake followed by a liar and the (false) claim I'm pushing an agenda was enough to push me.
Only ships from tier 1 to 4 ships can be bought by Romulans.
(the following number might be an approximation because there were just too many ships to count and I might have made a mistake, still I expect a maximum variant of +/-3)
Federation:
11 small craft
26 ships from Tier 1 to tier 4.
102 ships from tier 5 to 6 (+2 tier 6 ships incoming)
Total: 139 playable ships
Klingon:
5 small craft
25 ships from tier 1 to tier 4
58 ships from tier 5 to 6
Total: 88 playable ships
Romulans:
4 small craft
62 ships (52 are from tiers 5 to 6)
total: 91-92 playable ships
they do not have the most ships, they have 3-4 more ships than the klingons (but less high tier ships) and far less ships than the federation.
Do you check your facts before posting?
Have I ever insulted you? because you did, several times.
-If Gecko said there are 4 potential candidates for a new faction and the cardassians are one of the candidates then he said that, no-one is twisting his words, no-one here said that his words confirm a new faction and that the new faction will be cardassian, all we said is that a new faction is a possibility as Gecko mentioned, you however stated that a cardassian faction is unfeasible with no real proof at all.
-I see no problem with that at all, it's one ship, they've made refits, retrofits and whateverfits of existing ships several times.
-Ok, lets believe for a moment you are right about them saying that, and that their statement is definitive, meaning that they will never change post LoR missions no matter how much people threatens to kill some puppies and take down the government, so what? they don't need to edit anything post LoR they can ADD a new storyline without having to edit existing missions, they can ADD a "proper narrative hook to get the Cardies in the war" like they did with the Romulans, they created several story arcs and a whole new storyline to get the Romulans in-game.
In fact it would make sense to do that, because right now nothing explains why the Cardassians joined the Iconian war, we just know that they did (don't repeat that stupid one ship one guy argument again because I have pictures of a tactical map showing Cardassian ship deployment in the beta quadrant, straight from Blood of the ancients).
It's impossible to take you seriously anymore, you don't even know what an straw man is, but you definitely know what and ad hominen is, you keep using them in all your arguments.