there is such a thing as imagination and as I said in another thread sometimes even in mmorpg`s you have to use a little of this, that's not entirely a bad thing and often adds an extra dimension to the game that isn't there in realty.
personally whether I am in sector space or on a pve space map in battle I imagine I am actually on the bridge in the captains chair commanding my crew and viewing the action on the bridge screen, of course as the ships computer is tied into every external camera on the ship it can render a perfect view of the exterior of the ship from any angle I choose to view it from showing all of the activity that is going on around the ship just as if I was outside looking in and I can instruct the computer to zoom in or out at will depending if I choose to see the ship close up or if I wish to see more of the action that is taking place around my ship or more scenery that we are passing by.
I believe this is why it is referred to as tactical view as this would be the tactical view you would see on the bridge screen if you were sitting there in reality.
if you find sector space boring that's a shame but personally I prefer this part of the game just the way it is.
just as a space battle would be far more boring and restrictive of what action you would see if it was displayed on a ship screen and you just had a single view looking forwards or backwards, left or right that you had to watch from the captains chair so the journey through sector space would be far more boring for the same reasons.
I much more prefer that my imagined dynamic view of space is displayed there for my enjoyment.
the problem is with your idea that you are on the bridge during sector space even perhaps doing some other task gives no reason why what you might see on the bridge screen probably just stars whizzing by is nothing like what you would see if you were viewing it from sector space in tactical view, plus it also does not explain why you can be inside looking out in sector space but must be outside looking in when you reach a system map, this leads to the inevitable breakdown of immersion in my opinion.
next time you are around ESD or Qo'nos visit you bridge and sit there in the captains chair and just wait for 15 minutes, see how boring that would be compared to the trip through sector space.
even if they thought up some mini game or three to keep us busy for that time it would soon become repetitive and boring as well.
you would soon find yourself doing something else like getting a drink or making a snack just to pass the time and if your doing that when your on the bridge in sector space why not just do it now.
Post edited by bobbydazlers on
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
I seem to remember in an interview once, they explained that when they originally wrote the engine they set it up so that its logic understood a player avatar to exist in exactly one, and only one, place at a time. Since so much in the engine references this understanding, they can't change it without changing basically everything else. They might as well rewrite the game from the ground up at that point.
Hell, I would just be happy if they got rid of the planets in Sector Space. Keep the stars associated with those planets, but lose the planets. Even in the movies/shows you don't see the planets until they come out of warp. And since you can't scale the planets correctly with the stars, it makes it completely unrealistic when you fly by a random star that has several planets circling it. Of course this will never happen...
Sorry but I cant support this. I bought these ships with my hard earned money. I do not want to spend the majority of my time in Space on the bridge. I want to see the ship so I feel like I actually got my moneys worth.
Sorry but I cant support this. I bought these ships with my hard earned money. I do not want to spend the majority of my time in Space on the bridge. I want to see the ship so I feel like I actually got my moneys worth.
agreed, and I also want to see other players ships on the now rare occasion you see them now, its not a bad thing IMO that you don't see as many ships in warp as you used to, space is supposed to be big after all, you should not see another one very often but you do see them on occasion and its still fun to see what others are flying.
plus most of the ship interiors are very samey anyway so if you've seen one you've seen em all to some extent, I rarely feel the need to visit my bridge unless I really have to.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
Sorry but I cant support this. I bought these ships with my hard earned money. I do not want to spend the majority of my time in Space on the bridge. I want to see the ship so I feel like I actually got my moneys worth.
Well, obviously, any form of travel-via-bridge gameplay would be entirely optional.
Sorry but I cant support this. I bought these ships with my hard earned money. I do not want to spend the majority of my time in Space on the bridge. I want to see the ship so I feel like I actually got my moneys worth.
Well, obviously, any form of travel-via-bridge gameplay would be entirely optional.
the problem is it would not, any bridge based gameplay would have to reward something be it gear xp dil or such otherwise it would be pointless and players would be forced into taking part even though they might prefer sector space travel just to keep pace with players who would choose to use the bridge travel option for fear of falling behind by not receiving these rewards.
what player would want to miss out on rewards just because they choose sector space above bridge travel with the knowledge that other are receiving these rewards many times over every day.
I would much prefer the devs concentrate their efforts on adding new missions be they story missions or pve queued missions that all can take part in without fear of missing one of the main parts of the game they enjoy.
of course on the flip side players who chose bridge travel would want something to do while they are waiting for the timer to run down otherwise it would be too boring and they would also expect some reward for doing these tasks.
heres an option, if sector space is so atrocious to you why not have it so you can transwarp to any system at any time for a modest ec cost say 50k ec each time, then you would never have to suffer that nasty sector space ever again, why should those who prefer to use sector space be the ones who have to loose out.
I am sure the devs would have no trouble adding a one time transwarp device for sale by ferengi traders you could stock up on, then its just click click select destination and your there.
I might even be tempted to buy a few of those myself, even though I like sector space they would be handy if your in a rush.
of course they would not effect your normal transwarp timer.
Post edited by bobbydazlers on
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
the problem is it would not, any bridge based gameplay would have to reward something be it gear xp dil or such otherwise it would be pointless
Why should traveling on your bridge have to award anything when traveling in sector space doesn't either? I'd say getting to your destination is reward enough.
There is no reward for visiting your bridge right now but that doesn't stop people from using the feature.
the problem is it would not, any bridge based gameplay would have to reward something be it gear xp dil or such otherwise it would be pointless
Why should traveling on your bridge have to award anything when traveling in sector space doesn't either? I'd say getting to your destination is reward enough.
There is no reward for visiting your bridge right now but that doesn't stop people from using the feature.
like I said before "next time you are around ESD or Qo'nos visit you bridge and sit there in the captains chair and just wait for 15 minutes, see how boring that would be compared to the trip through sector space."
players would demand some kind of task to do to pass the time and they would expect a reward for doing that task.
most players rarely visit the bridge for the length of time it takes to fly in sector space and more often then not only for a quick visit to the account bank or some such, I defy any player to honestly say they spend more the two minutes on their bridge every day or even visit it every day for that matter.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
I'm ill, so not firing on all cylinders today. But I don't really get what the OP is talking about. It looks to me like they basically want to keep everything exactly as it is, but just change the perspective from ship exterior to ship bridge...right?
So if sector space is useless now, how will it be useful again just because your looking at the back of your captain's head and not the back of a ship?
What people want, generally, is to visit the ship interior, set a destination, and while a timer updates which sector they are in, they would be free to DOff and take part in new shipboard activities, like little repeatable missions.
@OP are you assuming to speak for all STO players or are you simply using the royal 'we'?
Personally I like sector space and I grew even more fond of it after they made i bigger. Yes it's a bit annoying at the lower levels, but how much time do any of us spend as below 30 or even below 50 where it can get a bit tedious? For me the answer is 'not long enough to become really annoyed by it'.
I love the way sector space looks now and it's nice to fly past other ships and occasionally hilarious as well. I had two great laughs today from other people's character/ship/fleet names so removing sector travel would for me mean a lot less entertaining game.
So sorry mate, no support from me for this.
Logic is the beginning of wisdom, not the end of it.
What people want, generally, is to visit the ship interior, set a destination, and while a timer updates which sector they are in, they would be free to DOff and take part in new shipboard activities, like little repeatable missions.
I believe I have covered why this would be unfair to players who prefer to use sector space here >
and I believe I come up with an ideal solution for players who don't like sector space there as well and this would be much simpler for the devs to implement then what has been suggested so far.
Post edited by bobbydazlers on
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
What people want, generally, is to visit the ship interior, set a destination, and while a timer updates which sector they are in, they would be free to DOff and take part in new shipboard activities, like little repeatable missions.
I believe I have covered why this would be unfair to players who prefer to use sector space here >
and I believe I come up with an ideal solution for players who don't like sector space there as well and this would be much simpler for the devs to implement then what has been suggested so far.
And what do you propose for people who want an active, dynamic set of events on their ship interior? You know, like about 85-90% of Star Trek.
I really think having events on ship interiors and getting players to visit one another's ship interior is just about the largest growth prospect for this game.
What people want, generally, is to visit the ship interior, set a destination, and while a timer updates which sector they are in, they would be free to DOff and take part in new shipboard activities, like little repeatable missions.
I believe I have covered why this would be unfair to players who prefer to use sector space here >
and I believe I come up with an ideal solution for players who don't like sector space there as well and this would be much simpler for the devs to implement then what has been suggested so far.
And what do you propose for people who want an active, dynamic set of events on their ship interior? You know, like about 85-90% of Star Trek.
I really think having events on ship interiors and getting players to visit one another's ship interior is just about the largest growth prospect for this game.
the devs spent god knows how many hours revamping sector space and now you expect them to spend god knows how many hours giving you a way to avoid using sector space, get real it aint gonna happen live with it.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
Sure it would require a massive shift in game play style from the current model - - but it WOULD do everything as promised.
Space would seem bigger. The game would definitely be more in line with what we see in the TV shows and movies (bridge being the focal point). And it would add all the other immersive items mentioned, simply and effectively.
Yes, it would require quite a bit of Dev work - but the end result would definitely be worth it.
I'm not fishing for "fly on the bridge" methods, that was just a side effect of making space "seem" even bigger. The title is a play on words in that i'm not suggesting getting rid of sector space as it were, just moving it around and representing it differently.
right now when you fly in sector space there are tons of systems and planets you can't visit, and the ones you can are instances of a single planet or moon within that system. so for as beautifully crafted as the recent sector space was (truly a great job) when you leave it and fly to a planet instance space becomes small again with square suns. My idea shifts "sector space" to the star systems so you would fly in them like you do in sector space. so you open up more "sector spaces" so to speak by having large star systems to travel in which would have all of the features sector space does now (deep space encounters, random anomalies, other player interactions, patrols, foundry, doffing and so forth).
But in doing that I need do to find out what to about sector space, which i'm suggesting removing so...
What you're asking for is a completely separate instance of sector space, for each player, AND to have both the player and the bridge they are on, within the map, fly around the map (or alternately, having the map fly around you). That's actually even less feasible than previous suggestions.
I will restate, the most viable "fly from your bridge" method I've seen yet, is the countdown. (as quoted above)
There would be no map you are flying in. No players to see you. Just an instance of you on your bridge no different that when you visit your bridge now. You've always said the issue trying to make the game engine represent two instances of a single object in two different spaces visible to other players is the problem. Since the ship avatar in space and the character avatar on a bridge (or basically a ground map) are actually the same thing. So what if we remove the element which is creating the conflict? Travelling in Sector Space where you are visible to other players. Or maybe I'm misunderstanding what the limitations are?
I'm assuming the game always knows where I am even when shifting between sector space/map instances and my bridge since I can be anywhere allowable, visit my bridge and when I return to my ship view I am right where I was before. So my thinking is that "travelling" would just be simulated. I'm curious if the engine has the ability to update your location if you are not travelling through sector space. That is, if I start at ESD, and visit my bridge, could I in theory tell the game engine to move me to say New Romulus? So when I go back to my ship view I am now there instead of ESD? In other words, can a I pass a new value to whatever function is responsible for storing the space/ground instance you were in before visiting my bridge?
Maybe show warp lines outside to give the illusion but your actually not moving anywhere per se. As for how long it takes to get from one system to another there is no reason it needs to be exact or even close. What about creating a series of virtual radiuses around your ships location for differing distances, maybe 4 layers, with each layer having a set time. Wouldn't need to be too much more complex than that. So if I'm in the middle of the beta quadrant for example, any system within a certain radius has the same travel time. Then additional tiers based on ship tiers. So Tier 1 ships have the slowest times while tier 6 has the highest. But all the times would be uniform, so all the engine needs to know is where you are, where you want to go, what tier of ship you fly and which distance radius the system is in order to calculate a time.
I'm not suggesting any deep bridge based gameplay, no fighting, no missions. nothing more detailed than what you can do on the bridge of your ship now - walk around, do administrative tasks or have players visit you for some rp. The only difference is maybe some warp lines outside where there are windows and one of your officers every once and a while saying, "captain, there is an anomaly available to scan."
The best way to think of it is like the hallway from the Matrix. Sector space would now be a hallway with a series of doors which lead to vast areas of space which have their own doors leading to small rooms, rather than a single vast area of space that leads to doorways of small rooms.
And yeah, probably not feasible in terms of resources in design time, server cost and space/storage to have so many different "sector space" instances available. It's only an idea.
@OP are you assuming to speak for all STO players or are you simply using the royal 'we'?
No. I speak for myself fully knowing if you ask 100 star trek fans about their stance on a topic you will get 101 answers. Again, its just an idea for better or for worse.
Someone played this game www.pulsarthegame.com?
That is a very like Star Trek fly from bridge concept.
Something like that would be nice for Star Trek Online.
The easiest way to deal with it is the countdown method, that way we get sector space AND bridge travel. The only problem is of course what happens if you drop out mid-way. There are two obvious solutions to this:
1. You go back to the start, which is a knock back for the RP people but I'm sure they'll be distracted by something else as usual.
2. Expand the Alpha Quadrant map so there are no "westbound" deep space boundaries. Ideally knock the two of them together, but I'm sure they would have done this last time the map was updated if they could have done it.
The easiest way to deal with it is the countdown method, that way we get sector space AND bridge travel. The only problem is of course what happens if you drop out mid-way. There are two obvious solutions to this:
1. You go back to the start, which is a knock back for the RP people but I'm sure they'll be distracted by something else as usual.
2. Expand the Alpha Quadrant map so there are no "westbound" deep space boundaries. Ideally knock the two of them together, but I'm sure they would have done this last time the map was updated if they could have done it.
or don't allow you to drop out mid way unless it's tied of an event. Why would someone need to drop out midway through warp?
I'm assuming the game always knows where I am even when shifting between sector space/map instances and my bridge since I can be anywhere allowable, visit my bridge and when I return to my ship view I am right where I was before. So my thinking is that "travelling" would just be simulated. I'm curious if the engine has the ability to update your location if you are not travelling through sector space. That is, if I start at ESD, and visit my bridge, could I in theory tell the game engine to move me to say New Romulus? So when I go back to my ship view I am now there instead of ESD? In other words, can a I pass a new value to whatever function is responsible for storing the space/ground instance you were in before visiting my bridge?
When switching to your ship, the game obviously saves your position in sector space. That's why you end up back where you were when you beam out.
If you're IN a system the game could just use the coordinates of that system in sector space.
This position is a set of coordinates, a simple array. In order to constantly update your position, the game needs to know your destination, your speed and how much time has passed since you engaged your warp drive.
That, again, is very simple math.
Whenever you switch back to sector space, the game would use those updated coordinates to put you exactly where you would be had you traveled via sector space.
At least that's the idea. I don't even think this would require much work.
The easiest way to deal with it is the countdown method, that way we get sector space AND bridge travel. The only problem is of course what happens if you drop out mid-way. There are two obvious solutions to this:
1. You go back to the start, which is a knock back for the RP people but I'm sure they'll be distracted by something else as usual.
2. Expand the Alpha Quadrant map so there are no "westbound" deep space boundaries. Ideally knock the two of them together, but I'm sure they would have done this last time the map was updated if they could have done it.
Or you have respawn/exit point (and DOff assignments) updated in phases. It's not THAT different from what happens if you log off mid-gryphon ride in Warcraft.
So each sector has a time value. Each path contains a certain number of sectors. Each "sector complete" updates the exit point and DOff assignments.
Someone played this game www.pulsarthegame.com?
That is a very like Star Trek fly from bridge concept.
Something like that would be nice for Star Trek Online.
there are a few things in this game that lead me to believe this wont work in sto.
quotes from the web site.
At the beginning of every voyage, the sectors of the galaxy are randomly generated.
sto sector space is fixed and also has borders such as the borders between quadrants and the borders of star systems we can enter, as pulsar map is randomly generated at the beginning I am guessing the map for each player could be different also I am guessing there are no borders to contend with.
You can play offline with bots or cooperatively with friends online.
stos maps are just too large to allow off line play.
overall the entire game is going to be much smaller, you can often have more features in smaller games you just cant do in larger games due to memory constraints.
The game is currently under development. New systems and mechanics are still being added and tweaked, and there is not a large amount of in-game content to see yet.
as the game is still "under development" and there is "not a large amount of in-game content" they may find they will have to make substantial changes as the game grows in size so what you see now might not be 100% what the game is like once is complete.
in any case the two games are obviously running on totally different engines and what can be done in one cannot necessarily be done on another, even the character view is totally different in both games, pulsar being first person perspective and sto being third person perspective and this could carry over into spece flight as well as ground content.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
To folks who would miss sector space if an alternative option existed:
What are you doing in sector space to begin with?
As I noted, even within your quadrant, the odds of anyone else in that quadrant seeing you are, at best, around 3%. Less at peak times. Less than that if everybody isn't gathered in one spot. Less than that if they're spread across the three quadrants we have. Much less when you factor people on non-sector maps.
In fact, the odds of any given player seeing you in sector space at all without planning are probably lower than getting the grand prize from a single lockbox.
Your best bet is always going to be system space, not sector space.
For me, I don't go to sector space that much at all except to access red alerts, occasionally DOffing (mostly done), and to access missions. Most of my travel is accomplished through transwarps. Most of my gameplay is accomplished through queueing.
So, for me, the idea of travel having activities associated with it would be an addition to my normal play. Sector space doesn't really exist as it stands anyway. I generally do a fair amount of travel that involves a minimum of sector space interaction if any at all. It is fairly likely (pending how the admiralty system works) that the only sector space travel I will have in the next year will involve red alerts (with a direct transwarp) and featured episodes (which offer you a free transwarp) and mission replay (which offers you an EC transwarp). Unless I just decide to go AFK there, it's less than 1% of my playtime.
I can think of ways to use the sector maps. I can think of ways to increase socialization on space and on ground and these both kind of hinge on ship interiors becoming important.
If you're spending a lot of time in sector space, I guess my question is: what reason do you have to go there currently?
Someone played this game www.pulsarthegame.com?
That is a very like Star Trek fly from bridge concept.
Something like that would be nice for Star Trek Online.
Perhaps, that Guns of Icarus game works on the same premise as well. Ultimately however they are completely different games so incompatible with STO.
To folks who would miss sector space if an alternative option existed:
What are you doing in sector space to begin with?
Speaking personally, nothing. I use it for missions since you don't have a choice, Red Alerts, very rarely some Doffing, and just to fly from ESD to the Dyson gateway since that bug still exists.
I'd agree that spending more time on the bridge and inside your ship would feel more Trekky, but it would also isolate you from other players. STO is barely an MMO sure, but that is still the label on the box. Then of course there are all the technical limitations I'll not repeat here.
Someone played this game www.pulsarthegame.com?
That is a very like Star Trek fly from bridge concept.
Something like that would be nice for Star Trek Online.
Perhaps, that Guns of Icarus game works on the same premise as well. Ultimately however they are completely different games so incompatible with STO.
To folks who would miss sector space if an alternative option existed:
What are you doing in sector space to begin with?
Speaking personally, nothing. I use it for missions since you don't have a choice, Red Alerts, very rarely some Doffing, and just to fly from ESD to the Dyson gateway since that bug still exists.
I'd agree that spending more time on the bridge and inside your ship would feel more Trekky, but it would also isolate you from other players. STO is barely an MMO sure, but that is still the label on the box. Then of course there are all the technical limitations I'll not repeat here.
See, I have ideas for the beginnings of making bridge play more social. One of these involves looking at a YoWorld/Sims Social-style "peer review"/"visiting" system to get Captains on one another's ship interiors.
I recognize there are probably a dozen new ship interior maps needed -- which are expensive -- and that fitting them all for the same combat missions poses issues that might restrict areas where action can happen and would probably favor interacts that can be placed around the ship to support a simpler set of mechanics. So I see it as a set of challenges, some of which, you know, I can't do as a player without knowing the challenges associated with it. But I think navigating the challenges and making it financially viable and entertaining is doable and that the foundations of it could be done in a single, large season once the challenges and hurdles are identified and a design direction is adopted. But it seems like there's no will to try.
I really, honestly think that one content designer could probably make a solid side project out of it for a couple of seasons and that, once whiteboarded and prototyped, you could bring in Taco and the team to make a season feature out of it, developing maps and hookups. And it would be much closer to DOff system style updates, something one content dev could manage alongside other tasks after that.
Someone played this game www.pulsarthegame.com?
That is a very like Star Trek fly from bridge concept.
Something like that would be nice for Star Trek Online.
Perhaps, that Guns of Icarus game works on the same premise as well. Ultimately however they are completely different games so incompatible with STO.
To folks who would miss sector space if an alternative option existed:
What are you doing in sector space to begin with?
Speaking personally, nothing. I use it for missions since you don't have a choice, Red Alerts, very rarely some Doffing, and just to fly from ESD to the Dyson gateway since that bug still exists.
I'd agree that spending more time on the bridge and inside your ship would feel more Trekky, but it would also isolate you from other players. STO is barely an MMO sure, but that is still the label on the box. Then of course there are all the technical limitations I'll not repeat here.
See, I have ideas for the beginnings of making bridge play more social. One of these involves looking at a YoWorld/Sims Social-style "peer review"/"visiting" system to get Captains on one another's ship interiors.
I recognize there are probably a dozen new ship interior maps needed -- which are expensive -- and that fitting them all for the same combat missions poses issues that might restrict areas where action can happen and would probably favor interacts that can be placed around the ship to support a simpler set of mechanics. So I see it as a set of challenges, some of which, you know, I can't do as a player without knowing the challenges associated with it. But I think navigating the challenges and making it financially viable and entertaining is doable and that the foundations of it could be done in a single, large season once the challenges and hurdles are identified and a design direction is adopted. But it seems like there's no will to try.
I really, honestly think that one content designer could probably make a solid side project out of it for a couple of seasons and that, once whiteboarded and prototyped, you could bring in Taco and the team to make a season feature out of it, developing maps and hookups. And it would be much closer to DOff system style updates, something one content dev could manage alongside other tasks after that.
I've read this post 3 times and I'm still unsure what it is you're suggesting.
I will say that a "side project" is entirely on our own free time, and is completely voluntary. So if someone were to take this on as a "side project" that would have to be of their own choosing, and doing so instead of whatever else they may normally do with themselves.
I love this game, but I already put in 45-50 hours a week on it. When I'm off the clock, I do like to do other things.
Only YOU can prevent forum fires!
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,597Community Moderator
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personally whether I am in sector space or on a pve space map in battle I imagine I am actually on the bridge in the captains chair commanding my crew and viewing the action on the bridge screen, of course as the ships computer is tied into every external camera on the ship it can render a perfect view of the exterior of the ship from any angle I choose to view it from showing all of the activity that is going on around the ship just as if I was outside looking in and I can instruct the computer to zoom in or out at will depending if I choose to see the ship close up or if I wish to see more of the action that is taking place around my ship or more scenery that we are passing by.
I believe this is why it is referred to as tactical view as this would be the tactical view you would see on the bridge screen if you were sitting there in reality.
if you find sector space boring that's a shame but personally I prefer this part of the game just the way it is.
just as a space battle would be far more boring and restrictive of what action you would see if it was displayed on a ship screen and you just had a single view looking forwards or backwards, left or right that you had to watch from the captains chair so the journey through sector space would be far more boring for the same reasons.
I much more prefer that my imagined dynamic view of space is displayed there for my enjoyment.
the problem is with your idea that you are on the bridge during sector space even perhaps doing some other task gives no reason why what you might see on the bridge screen probably just stars whizzing by is nothing like what you would see if you were viewing it from sector space in tactical view, plus it also does not explain why you can be inside looking out in sector space but must be outside looking in when you reach a system map, this leads to the inevitable breakdown of immersion in my opinion.
next time you are around ESD or Qo'nos visit you bridge and sit there in the captains chair and just wait for 15 minutes, see how boring that would be compared to the trip through sector space.
even if they thought up some mini game or three to keep us busy for that time it would soon become repetitive and boring as well.
you would soon find yourself doing something else like getting a drink or making a snack just to pass the time and if your doing that when your on the bridge in sector space why not just do it now.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
I just head canon that it's a holographic display and quit worrying.
My character Tsin'xing
agreed, and I also want to see other players ships on the now rare occasion you see them now, its not a bad thing IMO that you don't see as many ships in warp as you used to, space is supposed to be big after all, you should not see another one very often but you do see them on occasion and its still fun to see what others are flying.
plus most of the ship interiors are very samey anyway so if you've seen one you've seen em all to some extent, I rarely feel the need to visit my bridge unless I really have to.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
the problem is it would not, any bridge based gameplay would have to reward something be it gear xp dil or such otherwise it would be pointless and players would be forced into taking part even though they might prefer sector space travel just to keep pace with players who would choose to use the bridge travel option for fear of falling behind by not receiving these rewards.
what player would want to miss out on rewards just because they choose sector space above bridge travel with the knowledge that other are receiving these rewards many times over every day.
I would much prefer the devs concentrate their efforts on adding new missions be they story missions or pve queued missions that all can take part in without fear of missing one of the main parts of the game they enjoy.
of course on the flip side players who chose bridge travel would want something to do while they are waiting for the timer to run down otherwise it would be too boring and they would also expect some reward for doing these tasks.
heres an option, if sector space is so atrocious to you why not have it so you can transwarp to any system at any time for a modest ec cost say 50k ec each time, then you would never have to suffer that nasty sector space ever again, why should those who prefer to use sector space be the ones who have to loose out.
I am sure the devs would have no trouble adding a one time transwarp device for sale by ferengi traders you could stock up on, then its just click click select destination and your there.
I might even be tempted to buy a few of those myself, even though I like sector space they would be handy if your in a rush.
of course they would not effect your normal transwarp timer.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
There is no reward for visiting your bridge right now but that doesn't stop people from using the feature.
like I said before "next time you are around ESD or Qo'nos visit you bridge and sit there in the captains chair and just wait for 15 minutes, see how boring that would be compared to the trip through sector space."
players would demand some kind of task to do to pass the time and they would expect a reward for doing that task.
most players rarely visit the bridge for the length of time it takes to fly in sector space and more often then not only for a quick visit to the account bank or some such, I defy any player to honestly say they spend more the two minutes on their bridge every day or even visit it every day for that matter.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
So if sector space is useless now, how will it be useful again just because your looking at the back of your captain's head and not the back of a ship?
Personally I like sector space and I grew even more fond of it after they made i bigger. Yes it's a bit annoying at the lower levels, but how much time do any of us spend as below 30 or even below 50 where it can get a bit tedious? For me the answer is 'not long enough to become really annoyed by it'.
I love the way sector space looks now and it's nice to fly past other ships and occasionally hilarious as well. I had two great laughs today from other people's character/ship/fleet names so removing sector travel would for me mean a lot less entertaining game.
So sorry mate, no support from me for this.
I believe I have covered why this would be unfair to players who prefer to use sector space here >
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/comment/12724792/#Comment_12724792
and I believe I come up with an ideal solution for players who don't like sector space there as well and this would be much simpler for the devs to implement then what has been suggested so far.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
And what do you propose for people who want an active, dynamic set of events on their ship interior? You know, like about 85-90% of Star Trek.
I really think having events on ship interiors and getting players to visit one another's ship interior is just about the largest growth prospect for this game.
the devs spent god knows how many hours revamping sector space and now you expect them to spend god knows how many hours giving you a way to avoid using sector space, get real it aint gonna happen live with it.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
Sure it would require a massive shift in game play style from the current model - - but it WOULD do everything as promised.
Space would seem bigger. The game would definitely be more in line with what we see in the TV shows and movies (bridge being the focal point). And it would add all the other immersive items mentioned, simply and effectively.
Yes, it would require quite a bit of Dev work - but the end result would definitely be worth it.
arcgames.com/en/forums/startrekonline/#/discussion/1203368/pve-content-a-list-of-gamewide-polishing-pass-suggestions
My character Tsin'xing
right now when you fly in sector space there are tons of systems and planets you can't visit, and the ones you can are instances of a single planet or moon within that system. so for as beautifully crafted as the recent sector space was (truly a great job) when you leave it and fly to a planet instance space becomes small again with square suns. My idea shifts "sector space" to the star systems so you would fly in them like you do in sector space. so you open up more "sector spaces" so to speak by having large star systems to travel in which would have all of the features sector space does now (deep space encounters, random anomalies, other player interactions, patrols, foundry, doffing and so forth).
But in doing that I need do to find out what to about sector space, which i'm suggesting removing so...
There would be no map you are flying in. No players to see you. Just an instance of you on your bridge no different that when you visit your bridge now. You've always said the issue trying to make the game engine represent two instances of a single object in two different spaces visible to other players is the problem. Since the ship avatar in space and the character avatar on a bridge (or basically a ground map) are actually the same thing. So what if we remove the element which is creating the conflict? Travelling in Sector Space where you are visible to other players. Or maybe I'm misunderstanding what the limitations are?
I'm assuming the game always knows where I am even when shifting between sector space/map instances and my bridge since I can be anywhere allowable, visit my bridge and when I return to my ship view I am right where I was before. So my thinking is that "travelling" would just be simulated. I'm curious if the engine has the ability to update your location if you are not travelling through sector space. That is, if I start at ESD, and visit my bridge, could I in theory tell the game engine to move me to say New Romulus? So when I go back to my ship view I am now there instead of ESD? In other words, can a I pass a new value to whatever function is responsible for storing the space/ground instance you were in before visiting my bridge?
Maybe show warp lines outside to give the illusion but your actually not moving anywhere per se. As for how long it takes to get from one system to another there is no reason it needs to be exact or even close. What about creating a series of virtual radiuses around your ships location for differing distances, maybe 4 layers, with each layer having a set time. Wouldn't need to be too much more complex than that. So if I'm in the middle of the beta quadrant for example, any system within a certain radius has the same travel time. Then additional tiers based on ship tiers. So Tier 1 ships have the slowest times while tier 6 has the highest. But all the times would be uniform, so all the engine needs to know is where you are, where you want to go, what tier of ship you fly and which distance radius the system is in order to calculate a time.
I'm not suggesting any deep bridge based gameplay, no fighting, no missions. nothing more detailed than what you can do on the bridge of your ship now - walk around, do administrative tasks or have players visit you for some rp. The only difference is maybe some warp lines outside where there are windows and one of your officers every once and a while saying, "captain, there is an anomaly available to scan."
The best way to think of it is like the hallway from the Matrix. Sector space would now be a hallway with a series of doors which lead to vast areas of space which have their own doors leading to small rooms, rather than a single vast area of space that leads to doorways of small rooms.
And yeah, probably not feasible in terms of resources in design time, server cost and space/storage to have so many different "sector space" instances available. It's only an idea.
No. I speak for myself fully knowing if you ask 100 star trek fans about their stance on a topic you will get 101 answers. Again, its just an idea for better or for worse.
That is a very like Star Trek fly from bridge concept.
Something like that would be nice for Star Trek Online.
1. You go back to the start, which is a knock back for the RP people but I'm sure they'll be distracted by something else as usual.
2. Expand the Alpha Quadrant map so there are no "westbound" deep space boundaries. Ideally knock the two of them together, but I'm sure they would have done this last time the map was updated if they could have done it.
or don't allow you to drop out mid way unless it's tied of an event. Why would someone need to drop out midway through warp?
If you're IN a system the game could just use the coordinates of that system in sector space.
This position is a set of coordinates, a simple array. In order to constantly update your position, the game needs to know your destination, your speed and how much time has passed since you engaged your warp drive.
That, again, is very simple math.
Whenever you switch back to sector space, the game would use those updated coordinates to put you exactly where you would be had you traveled via sector space.
At least that's the idea. I don't even think this would require much work.
Or you have respawn/exit point (and DOff assignments) updated in phases. It's not THAT different from what happens if you log off mid-gryphon ride in Warcraft.
So each sector has a time value. Each path contains a certain number of sectors. Each "sector complete" updates the exit point and DOff assignments.
there are a few things in this game that lead me to believe this wont work in sto.
quotes from the web site.
At the beginning of every voyage, the sectors of the galaxy are randomly generated.
sto sector space is fixed and also has borders such as the borders between quadrants and the borders of star systems we can enter, as pulsar map is randomly generated at the beginning I am guessing the map for each player could be different also I am guessing there are no borders to contend with.
You can play offline with bots or cooperatively with friends online.
stos maps are just too large to allow off line play.
overall the entire game is going to be much smaller, you can often have more features in smaller games you just cant do in larger games due to memory constraints.
The game is currently under development. New systems and mechanics are still being added and tweaked, and there is not a large amount of in-game content to see yet.
as the game is still "under development" and there is "not a large amount of in-game content" they may find they will have to make substantial changes as the game grows in size so what you see now might not be 100% what the game is like once is complete.
in any case the two games are obviously running on totally different engines and what can be done in one cannot necessarily be done on another, even the character view is totally different in both games, pulsar being first person perspective and sto being third person perspective and this could carry over into spece flight as well as ground content.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
To folks who would miss sector space if an alternative option existed:
What are you doing in sector space to begin with?
As I noted, even within your quadrant, the odds of anyone else in that quadrant seeing you are, at best, around 3%. Less at peak times. Less than that if everybody isn't gathered in one spot. Less than that if they're spread across the three quadrants we have. Much less when you factor people on non-sector maps.
In fact, the odds of any given player seeing you in sector space at all without planning are probably lower than getting the grand prize from a single lockbox.
Your best bet is always going to be system space, not sector space.
For me, I don't go to sector space that much at all except to access red alerts, occasionally DOffing (mostly done), and to access missions. Most of my travel is accomplished through transwarps. Most of my gameplay is accomplished through queueing.
So, for me, the idea of travel having activities associated with it would be an addition to my normal play. Sector space doesn't really exist as it stands anyway. I generally do a fair amount of travel that involves a minimum of sector space interaction if any at all. It is fairly likely (pending how the admiralty system works) that the only sector space travel I will have in the next year will involve red alerts (with a direct transwarp) and featured episodes (which offer you a free transwarp) and mission replay (which offers you an EC transwarp). Unless I just decide to go AFK there, it's less than 1% of my playtime.
I can think of ways to use the sector maps. I can think of ways to increase socialization on space and on ground and these both kind of hinge on ship interiors becoming important.
If you're spending a lot of time in sector space, I guess my question is: what reason do you have to go there currently?
Perhaps, that Guns of Icarus game works on the same premise as well. Ultimately however they are completely different games so incompatible with STO.
Speaking personally, nothing. I use it for missions since you don't have a choice, Red Alerts, very rarely some Doffing, and just to fly from ESD to the Dyson gateway since that bug still exists.
I'd agree that spending more time on the bridge and inside your ship would feel more Trekky, but it would also isolate you from other players. STO is barely an MMO sure, but that is still the label on the box. Then of course there are all the technical limitations I'll not repeat here.
See, I have ideas for the beginnings of making bridge play more social. One of these involves looking at a YoWorld/Sims Social-style "peer review"/"visiting" system to get Captains on one another's ship interiors.
I recognize there are probably a dozen new ship interior maps needed -- which are expensive -- and that fitting them all for the same combat missions poses issues that might restrict areas where action can happen and would probably favor interacts that can be placed around the ship to support a simpler set of mechanics. So I see it as a set of challenges, some of which, you know, I can't do as a player without knowing the challenges associated with it. But I think navigating the challenges and making it financially viable and entertaining is doable and that the foundations of it could be done in a single, large season once the challenges and hurdles are identified and a design direction is adopted. But it seems like there's no will to try.
I really, honestly think that one content designer could probably make a solid side project out of it for a couple of seasons and that, once whiteboarded and prototyped, you could bring in Taco and the team to make a season feature out of it, developing maps and hookups. And it would be much closer to DOff system style updates, something one content dev could manage alongside other tasks after that.
I've read this post 3 times and I'm still unsure what it is you're suggesting.
I will say that a "side project" is entirely on our own free time, and is completely voluntary. So if someone were to take this on as a "side project" that would have to be of their own choosing, and doing so instead of whatever else they may normally do with themselves.
I love this game, but I already put in 45-50 hours a week on it. When I'm off the clock, I do like to do other things.