Someone played this game www.pulsarthegame.com?
That is a very like Star Trek fly from bridge concept.
Something like that would be nice for Star Trek Online.
Perhaps, that Guns of Icarus game works on the same premise as well. Ultimately however they are completely different games so incompatible with STO.
To folks who would miss sector space if an alternative option existed:
What are you doing in sector space to begin with?
Speaking personally, nothing. I use it for missions since you don't have a choice, Red Alerts, very rarely some Doffing, and just to fly from ESD to the Dyson gateway since that bug still exists.
I'd agree that spending more time on the bridge and inside your ship would feel more Trekky, but it would also isolate you from other players. STO is barely an MMO sure, but that is still the label on the box. Then of course there are all the technical limitations I'll not repeat here.
See, I have ideas for the beginnings of making bridge play more social. One of these involves looking at a YoWorld/Sims Social-style "peer review"/"visiting" system to get Captains on one another's ship interiors.
I recognize there are probably a dozen new ship interior maps needed -- which are expensive -- and that fitting them all for the same combat missions poses issues that might restrict areas where action can happen and would probably favor interacts that can be placed around the ship to support a simpler set of mechanics. So I see it as a set of challenges, some of which, you know, I can't do as a player without knowing the challenges associated with it. But I think navigating the challenges and making it financially viable and entertaining is doable and that the foundations of it could be done in a single, large season once the challenges and hurdles are identified and a design direction is adopted. But it seems like there's no will to try.
I really, honestly think that one content designer could probably make a solid side project out of it for a couple of seasons and that, once whiteboarded and prototyped, you could bring in Taco and the team to make a season feature out of it, developing maps and hookups. And it would be much closer to DOff system style updates, something one content dev could manage alongside other tasks after that.
I've read this post 3 times and I'm still unsure what it is you're suggesting.
I will say that a "side project" is entirely on our own free time, and is completely voluntary. So if someone were to take this on as a "side project" that would have to be of their own choosing, and doing so instead of whatever else they may normally do with themselves.
I love this game, but I already put in 45-50 hours a week on it. When I'm off the clock, I do like to do other things.
Right. I can try to communicate better. I'm not saying somebody should have to do a ship interiors revamp.
I think, for someone who has never been trained on your internal tools, I have a pretty good grasp of the game engine and the technical details that make ship interior centric gameplay. I don't have as good of a grasp on the financial hurdles or the kind of teamwork it would take to fully do it. I'd guess the actual implementation would wind up being a very large season's worth of work.
But that work can't start without specifics and deciding the specifics would require some inside awareness as to the resources it would take, what C-Store sales for varying types of purchases are like, what the sizes of the various teams are, etc.
If there ever is a system designed to add new gameplay functionality to ship interiors, here's how I see it being developed. This is probably hyper-simplisitic which is probably what makes it confusing. I'm pitching the story of how it gets developed to other players.
A content designer begins prototyping ideas for ship interior activities as a side project, coordinating with a lead or producer like Geko. This would only happen if somebody wants to do it, obviously, as a side project. I think a content designer would be in the best position to brainstorm novel activity hook-ups. I'm not saying one should be assigned. I'm just saying that's where I see it starting. I'm assuming they would tell their lead and/or Geko and/or Steve Ricossa the basics of what they're playing around with.
They develop the idea to a point where it shows promise on existing maps and is ready for some specialized UI assets and needs the creation of new maps to host the content system. They have the basics of it working with dialogue contacts dressed up as consoles and variables that track character progression in the activity system.
At this point, if it looks good to the content lead, Al, and Steve, I would guess they whiteboard expanded ideas on it, estimate the production resources involved, and, if all goes well, look ahead 8 or 12 months in the future to a point when they can make it the centerpiece of a season update, with the map art, character art, UI, and supporting systems work penciled in to support development of this as an official system.
I THINK where I'm losing you is that I'm being very vague on what the system would be and who would do it. There are things I don't know that I would need to know to give more specifics (team size, rough idea of financials, etc.) than "It's like the Sims Social!" Also, since I'm not a content dev and I think this would work best to start as somebody's personal project, I'm avoiding dictating specifics because somebody's passion project should be their passion, not mine.
I'll outline the Sims Social though, because I see it as a starting point. I know a few of your senior devs played because I used to play it with them. I can't link you to it because it went defunct, like a LOT of facebook games.
The game had one signature NPC, Bella, who had a house. Players also had houses. Players conducted projects to upgrade and improve aspects of their house, including placement of cosmetic elements. Signature NPCs would offer projects for various types of upgrades/trophies/resource hubs.
Every player character had the following stats:
Hunger, hygiene, bladder, sleep (secondary), social and fun.
Interacting with objects placed in their house would generally raise one or more stats while also lowering one or more stats. You had a set number of "moves" per day in the form of energy (a facebook game staple). You receive free bonus moves for every house you visit. This includes Bella's house and the houses of other players.
You could spend a move doing something like telling another player's avatar you want to dance. This might only be an option if there is a jukebox nearby. You dance near the jukebox. Fun and social stats go up. Rest goes down. Bladder and hygeine are always going down until you use the bathroom or take a shower. But using the bathroom or showering too much might make your character feel like they lack fun and end up with a social deficit.
Having individual stats high enough (ie. a high level of fun) might allow you to do things like paint paintings. Painting creates crafting resources which can be spent on artsy new items, some of which may in turn yield more fun per use in the future.
Obviously, the kinds of stats STO tracks would be different. (Bladder needs are a no-go on a ship with one bathroom that no one has ever seen.) Elements of DOffing, crafting, and rep could be used to achieve some of the functionality.
An advantage is, unlike combat which could be hindered by map sizes and differences, this would largely be doable with specialized contact dialogues. The contacts just need to be placed on every ship interior developed, along with trophy-slot style hookups for optional interactable items.
You get, say, 20 actions per day on your own ship and 5 actions per day added for every friendly ship you visit. These actions would be Trek themed. The actions you undertake raise and lower your balance of personal character stats which influence things like which features are active on your ship interior, what vendor discounts are like that day, what holoprograms you can run on the holodeck, etc. Maybe dilithium allows you to buy additional actions. Booster packs like R&D boosters can modify the success of interactions, unlock interactions, add NPC passengers to your mess hall, etc.
Think of it in a way like first person DOffing.
On your end, Taco, if a system like this were devised, we'd probably need the full three deck spread designed for every faction in the game. A Dominion interior layout, 29th century interior layout, etc. A content dev would place the relevant interactable NPCs and objects. And once you have actions to perform, being able to travel via timer makes a bit more sense. And because you get bonuses for visiting other captain's ships, it becomes a social system. Although because activities are limited, it doesn't replace conventional travel in sector space either. The timer travel just keeps you from being too completely penalized for taking time out to do this.
There's definitely room for iteration. I'm wary about actually working up a full design doc for free, mainly because I make my living right now submitting business solutions to contests and also because I'm procrastinating on my capstone for my second master's whenever I post/play right now. I can get very wrapped up in these kinds of things and I need to put my focus on the stuff that pays... and, also, if I'm proposing that this would be a cool thing for someone there to play with, I don't want my ideas about the design to be so rigid that they keep somebody at Cryptic from putting their stamp on it if it interests them. I think this COULD be somebody's pet project and a great resume line.
To folks who would miss sector space if an alternative option existed:
What are you doing in sector space to begin with?
As I noted, even within your quadrant, the odds of anyone else in that quadrant seeing you are, at best, around 3%. Less at peak times. Less than that if everybody isn't gathered in one spot. Less than that if they're spread across the three quadrants we have. Much less when you factor people on non-sector maps.
In fact, the odds of any given player seeing you in sector space at all without planning are probably lower than getting the grand prize from a single lockbox.
well darn give me the grand prize from 8 lockboxes as that is how many ships I see on my last trip through the beta quadrant, and no I was nowhere near a gathering spot when I see them, ok so a few of them were a fair distance away but a couple of them actually passed me going in the opposite direction.
the thing is if you think sector space is so awful why are you using it so much that it bothers you, every story mission has a transwarp to option and there are so many places that you can get at least fairly close to if not all the way there with your transwarp device.
if you are in an advanced fleet you also have a few fleet shortcuts for getting around, in truth you can virtually play for days before you ever need to use sector space at all, then of course you always have slipstream to make your journey quicker.
usually if I am bored checking out the view in sector space I often check out the fleet holdings and see if theres anything I can donate or perhaps I might check my inventory to see if theres any gear I can recycle.
then of course I can always check my character status and perhaps transfer some stuff from my inventory over to my character, my ship or my boffs or perhaps check to see if I have any spec points I can spend or what traits I have slotted and so forth.
then I might check the mission logs, see what missions I still need to play or maybe even bring up the calendar see if there are any events coming up.
I might even check out the c-store see if theres anything I fancy buying or maybe I might take a look at the dilithium exchange see what the exchange rate is at the moment.
yes all these things and probably more you can do in sector space without impeding your journey.
about the only thing that i have found that seem to stop your progress is doffing and there is probably a good reason for that.
Post edited by bobbydazlers on
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
Someone played this game www.pulsarthegame.com?
That is a very like Star Trek fly from bridge concept.
Something like that would be nice for Star Trek Online.
Perhaps, that Guns of Icarus game works on the same premise as well. Ultimately however they are completely different games so incompatible with STO.
To folks who would miss sector space if an alternative option existed:
What are you doing in sector space to begin with?
Speaking personally, nothing. I use it for missions since you don't have a choice, Red Alerts, very rarely some Doffing, and just to fly from ESD to the Dyson gateway since that bug still exists.
I'd agree that spending more time on the bridge and inside your ship would feel more Trekky, but it would also isolate you from other players. STO is barely an MMO sure, but that is still the label on the box. Then of course there are all the technical limitations I'll not repeat here.
See, I have ideas for the beginnings of making bridge play more social. One of these involves looking at a YoWorld/Sims Social-style "peer review"/"visiting" system to get Captains on one another's ship interiors.
I recognize there are probably a dozen new ship interior maps needed -- which are expensive -- and that fitting them all for the same combat missions poses issues that might restrict areas where action can happen and would probably favor interacts that can be placed around the ship to support a simpler set of mechanics. So I see it as a set of challenges, some of which, you know, I can't do as a player without knowing the challenges associated with it. But I think navigating the challenges and making it financially viable and entertaining is doable and that the foundations of it could be done in a single, large season once the challenges and hurdles are identified and a design direction is adopted. But it seems like there's no will to try.
I really, honestly think that one content designer could probably make a solid side project out of it for a couple of seasons and that, once whiteboarded and prototyped, you could bring in Taco and the team to make a season feature out of it, developing maps and hookups. And it would be much closer to DOff system style updates, something one content dev could manage alongside other tasks after that.
I've read this post 3 times and I'm still unsure what it is you're suggesting.
I will say that a "side project" is entirely on our own free time, and is completely voluntary. So if someone were to take this on as a "side project" that would have to be of their own choosing, and doing so instead of whatever else they may normally do with themselves.
I love this game, but I already put in 45-50 hours a week on it. When I'm off the clock, I do like to do other things.
Right. I can try to communicate better. I'm not saying somebody should have to do a ship interiors revamp.
I think, for someone who has never been trained on your internal tools, I have a pretty good grasp of the game engine and the technical details that make ship interior centric gameplay. I don't have as good of a grasp on the financial hurdles or the kind of teamwork it would take to fully do it. I'd guess the actual implementation would wind up being a very large season's worth of work.
But that work can't start without specifics and deciding the specifics would require some inside awareness as to the resources it would take, what C-Store sales for varying types of purchases are like, what the sizes of the various teams are, etc.
If there ever is a system designed to add new gameplay functionality to ship interiors, here's how I see it being developed. This is probably hyper-simplisitic which is probably what makes it confusing. I'm pitching the story of how it gets developed to other players.
A content designer begins prototyping ideas for ship interior activities as a side project, coordinating with a lead or producer like Geko. This would only happen if somebody wants to do it, obviously, as a side project. I think a content designer would be in the best position to brainstorm novel activity hook-ups. I'm not saying one should be assigned. I'm just saying that's where I see it starting. I'm assuming they would tell their lead and/or Geko and/or Steve Ricossa the basics of what they're playing around with.
They develop the idea to a point where it shows promise on existing maps and is ready for some specialized UI assets and needs the creation of new maps to host the content system. They have the basics of it working with dialogue contacts dressed up as consoles and variables that track character progression in the activity system.
At this point, if it looks good to the content lead, Al, and Steve, I would guess they whiteboard expanded ideas on it, estimate the production resources involved, and, if all goes well, look ahead 8 or 12 months in the future to a point when they can make it the centerpiece of a season update, with the map art, character art, UI, and supporting systems work penciled in to support development of this as an official system.
I THINK where I'm losing you is that I'm being very vague on what the system would be and who would do it. There are things I don't know that I would need to know to give more specifics (team size, rough idea of financials, etc.) than "It's like the Sims Social!" Also, since I'm not a content dev and I think this would work best to start as somebody's personal project, I'm avoiding dictating specifics because somebody's passion project should be their passion, not mine.
I'll outline the Sims Social though, because I see it as a starting point. I know a few of your senior devs played because I used to play it with them. I can't link you to it because it went defunct, like a LOT of facebook games.
The game had one signature NPC, Bella, who had a house. Players also had houses. Players conducted projects to upgrade and improve aspects of their house, including placement of cosmetic elements. Signature NPCs would offer projects for various types of upgrades/trophies/resource hubs.
Every player character had the following stats:
Hunger, hygiene, bladder, sleep (secondary), social and fun.
Interacting with objects placed in their house would generally raise one or more stats while also lowering one or more stats. You had a set number of "moves" per day in the form of energy (a facebook game staple). You receive free bonus moves for every house you visit. This includes Bella's house and the houses of other players.
You could spend a move doing something like telling another player's avatar you want to dance. This might only be an option if there is a jukebox nearby. You dance near the jukebox. Fun and social stats go up. Rest goes down. Bladder and hygeine are always going down until you use the bathroom or take a shower. But using the bathroom or showering too much might make your character feel like they lack fun and end up with a social deficit.
Having individual stats high enough (ie. a high level of fun) might allow you to do things like paint paintings. Painting creates crafting resources which can be spent on artsy new items, some of which may in turn yield more fun per use in the future.
Obviously, the kinds of stats STO tracks would be different. (Bladder needs are a no-go on a ship with one bathroom that no one has ever seen.) Elements of DOffing, crafting, and rep could be used to achieve some of the functionality.
An advantage is, unlike combat which could be hindered by map sizes and differences, this would largely be doable with specialized contact dialogues. The contacts just need to be placed on every ship interior developed, along with trophy-slot style hookups for optional interactable items.
You get, say, 20 actions per day on your own ship and 5 actions per day added for every friendly ship you visit. These actions would be Trek themed. The actions you undertake raise and lower your balance of personal character stats which influence things like which features are active on your ship interior, what vendor discounts are like that day, what holoprograms you can run on the holodeck, etc. Maybe dilithium allows you to buy additional actions. Booster packs like R&D boosters can modify the success of interactions, unlock interactions, add NPC passengers to your mess hall, etc.
Think of it in a way like first person DOffing.
On your end, Taco, if a system like this were devised, we'd probably need the full three deck spread designed for every faction in the game. A Dominion interior layout, 29th century interior layout, etc. A content dev would place the relevant interactable NPCs and objects. And once you have actions to perform, being able to travel via timer makes a bit more sense. And because you get bonuses for visiting other captain's ships, it becomes a social system. Although because activities are limited, it doesn't replace conventional travel in sector space either. The timer travel just keeps you from being too completely penalized for taking time out to do this.
There's definitely room for iteration. I'm wary about actually working up a full design doc for free, mainly because I make my living right now submitting business solutions to contests and also because I'm procrastinating on my capstone for my second master's whenever I post/play right now. I can get very wrapped up in these kinds of things and I need to put my focus on the stuff that pays... and, also, if I'm proposing that this would be a cool thing for someone there to play with, I don't want my ideas about the design to be so rigid that they keep somebody at Cryptic from putting their stamp on it if it interests them. I think this COULD be somebody's pet project and a great resume line.
I hope this illustrates one possible way forward.
from your description here it sounds like you would have to spend more time on your or a friends bridge then anywhere else, even more so as you say "The actions you undertake raise and lower your balance of personal character stats" it sounds to me like you would be forced to use this even if you did not really want to, especially if they effect things like "vendor discounts" .
at the end of the day I come to the game to play star trek not a star trek style Sims.
don't forget that most days I hardly spend any time in sector space at all, often maybe 10-15 minutes at most, sometimes none at all if i am short on time and just do doff missions or just transwarp wherever I need to go.
what you have laid out here sounds like it would take a whole lot longer then that.
I don't want to end up a virtual prisoner on my bridge and from your description that's where it sounds like your heading.
I don't much care for sims anyway and certainly don't want anything reminiscent of it in this game.
Post edited by bobbydazlers on
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
Comments
Right. I can try to communicate better. I'm not saying somebody should have to do a ship interiors revamp.
I think, for someone who has never been trained on your internal tools, I have a pretty good grasp of the game engine and the technical details that make ship interior centric gameplay. I don't have as good of a grasp on the financial hurdles or the kind of teamwork it would take to fully do it. I'd guess the actual implementation would wind up being a very large season's worth of work.
But that work can't start without specifics and deciding the specifics would require some inside awareness as to the resources it would take, what C-Store sales for varying types of purchases are like, what the sizes of the various teams are, etc.
If there ever is a system designed to add new gameplay functionality to ship interiors, here's how I see it being developed. This is probably hyper-simplisitic which is probably what makes it confusing. I'm pitching the story of how it gets developed to other players.
A content designer begins prototyping ideas for ship interior activities as a side project, coordinating with a lead or producer like Geko. This would only happen if somebody wants to do it, obviously, as a side project. I think a content designer would be in the best position to brainstorm novel activity hook-ups. I'm not saying one should be assigned. I'm just saying that's where I see it starting. I'm assuming they would tell their lead and/or Geko and/or Steve Ricossa the basics of what they're playing around with.
They develop the idea to a point where it shows promise on existing maps and is ready for some specialized UI assets and needs the creation of new maps to host the content system. They have the basics of it working with dialogue contacts dressed up as consoles and variables that track character progression in the activity system.
At this point, if it looks good to the content lead, Al, and Steve, I would guess they whiteboard expanded ideas on it, estimate the production resources involved, and, if all goes well, look ahead 8 or 12 months in the future to a point when they can make it the centerpiece of a season update, with the map art, character art, UI, and supporting systems work penciled in to support development of this as an official system.
I THINK where I'm losing you is that I'm being very vague on what the system would be and who would do it. There are things I don't know that I would need to know to give more specifics (team size, rough idea of financials, etc.) than "It's like the Sims Social!" Also, since I'm not a content dev and I think this would work best to start as somebody's personal project, I'm avoiding dictating specifics because somebody's passion project should be their passion, not mine.
I'll outline the Sims Social though, because I see it as a starting point. I know a few of your senior devs played because I used to play it with them. I can't link you to it because it went defunct, like a LOT of facebook games.
The game had one signature NPC, Bella, who had a house. Players also had houses. Players conducted projects to upgrade and improve aspects of their house, including placement of cosmetic elements. Signature NPCs would offer projects for various types of upgrades/trophies/resource hubs.
Every player character had the following stats:
Hunger, hygiene, bladder, sleep (secondary), social and fun.
Interacting with objects placed in their house would generally raise one or more stats while also lowering one or more stats. You had a set number of "moves" per day in the form of energy (a facebook game staple). You receive free bonus moves for every house you visit. This includes Bella's house and the houses of other players.
You could spend a move doing something like telling another player's avatar you want to dance. This might only be an option if there is a jukebox nearby. You dance near the jukebox. Fun and social stats go up. Rest goes down. Bladder and hygeine are always going down until you use the bathroom or take a shower. But using the bathroom or showering too much might make your character feel like they lack fun and end up with a social deficit.
Having individual stats high enough (ie. a high level of fun) might allow you to do things like paint paintings. Painting creates crafting resources which can be spent on artsy new items, some of which may in turn yield more fun per use in the future.
Obviously, the kinds of stats STO tracks would be different. (Bladder needs are a no-go on a ship with one bathroom that no one has ever seen.) Elements of DOffing, crafting, and rep could be used to achieve some of the functionality.
An advantage is, unlike combat which could be hindered by map sizes and differences, this would largely be doable with specialized contact dialogues. The contacts just need to be placed on every ship interior developed, along with trophy-slot style hookups for optional interactable items.
You get, say, 20 actions per day on your own ship and 5 actions per day added for every friendly ship you visit. These actions would be Trek themed. The actions you undertake raise and lower your balance of personal character stats which influence things like which features are active on your ship interior, what vendor discounts are like that day, what holoprograms you can run on the holodeck, etc. Maybe dilithium allows you to buy additional actions. Booster packs like R&D boosters can modify the success of interactions, unlock interactions, add NPC passengers to your mess hall, etc.
Think of it in a way like first person DOffing.
On your end, Taco, if a system like this were devised, we'd probably need the full three deck spread designed for every faction in the game. A Dominion interior layout, 29th century interior layout, etc. A content dev would place the relevant interactable NPCs and objects. And once you have actions to perform, being able to travel via timer makes a bit more sense. And because you get bonuses for visiting other captain's ships, it becomes a social system. Although because activities are limited, it doesn't replace conventional travel in sector space either. The timer travel just keeps you from being too completely penalized for taking time out to do this.
There's definitely room for iteration. I'm wary about actually working up a full design doc for free, mainly because I make my living right now submitting business solutions to contests and also because I'm procrastinating on my capstone for my second master's whenever I post/play right now. I can get very wrapped up in these kinds of things and I need to put my focus on the stuff that pays... and, also, if I'm proposing that this would be a cool thing for someone there to play with, I don't want my ideas about the design to be so rigid that they keep somebody at Cryptic from putting their stamp on it if it interests them. I think this COULD be somebody's pet project and a great resume line.
I hope this illustrates one possible way forward.
well darn give me the grand prize from 8 lockboxes as that is how many ships I see on my last trip through the beta quadrant, and no I was nowhere near a gathering spot when I see them, ok so a few of them were a fair distance away but a couple of them actually passed me going in the opposite direction.
the thing is if you think sector space is so awful why are you using it so much that it bothers you, every story mission has a transwarp to option and there are so many places that you can get at least fairly close to if not all the way there with your transwarp device.
if you are in an advanced fleet you also have a few fleet shortcuts for getting around, in truth you can virtually play for days before you ever need to use sector space at all, then of course you always have slipstream to make your journey quicker.
usually if I am bored checking out the view in sector space I often check out the fleet holdings and see if theres anything I can donate or perhaps I might check my inventory to see if theres any gear I can recycle.
then of course I can always check my character status and perhaps transfer some stuff from my inventory over to my character, my ship or my boffs or perhaps check to see if I have any spec points I can spend or what traits I have slotted and so forth.
then I might check the mission logs, see what missions I still need to play or maybe even bring up the calendar see if there are any events coming up.
I might even check out the c-store see if theres anything I fancy buying or maybe I might take a look at the dilithium exchange see what the exchange rate is at the moment.
yes all these things and probably more you can do in sector space without impeding your journey.
about the only thing that i have found that seem to stop your progress is doffing and there is probably a good reason for that.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
from your description here it sounds like you would have to spend more time on your or a friends bridge then anywhere else, even more so as you say "The actions you undertake raise and lower your balance of personal character stats" it sounds to me like you would be forced to use this even if you did not really want to, especially if they effect things like "vendor discounts" .
at the end of the day I come to the game to play star trek not a star trek style Sims.
don't forget that most days I hardly spend any time in sector space at all, often maybe 10-15 minutes at most, sometimes none at all if i am short on time and just do doff missions or just transwarp wherever I need to go.
what you have laid out here sounds like it would take a whole lot longer then that.
I don't want to end up a virtual prisoner on my bridge and from your description that's where it sounds like your heading.
I don't much care for sims anyway and certainly don't want anything reminiscent of it in this game.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.