And its also been admitted that the Cardassians likely wont get a faction for the same reason The Dominion wont... no ships, and what little ships they had are already in lock boxes.
This. The Cardassian's iconic ship is a lockbox ship. They shot themselves in the foot with that. Almost ALL Jem'Hadar ships are available to players via lockbox, Lobi, and promos. if they make another playable Cardassian ship, it might be a T6 Keldon or Hideki Raider *Cue KDF rage at another cross faction Raider*. So far the only Jem'Hadar ship that isn't playable besides the fighter is the battlecruiser.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
That last part is you essentially nitpicking. "In spirit but not actuality" is splitting hairs.
And as far as business works, I'm familiar with it. I also know what operating budgets are, and how projects are planned. I also know how game development works, and how one year something "can't be done", and a year or two later, it's "oh we can totally do that now, watch".
Nothing you've stated thus far is a solid reason enough or permanent enough reason to exclude the remotest possibility of a Cardassian faction. Even the ol' "not enough ships" line was used for the Romulans, and look how that turned out.
I'm not saying a Cardassian faction is going to happen any time soon. But what I am saying is that it could happen at some point, and there's plenty of groundwork and precedent set now to do so.
No, its not. Its point out the difference between your fan fiction and reality, don't confuse the two.
Romulans had far more canon ship designs then the Cardys do. Its not really the same at all.
I don't see there being lots of groundwork or precedent TBH. Even the new revamped "Cardassian Struggle" arc has more to do with the MU and Alpha Dominion then it does Cardassians. The New revamp, if anything, shows Cryptic is fine with minimizing the Cardassians even more then they are, rather then laying the ground work for expanding on them.
Ah yes, because adding in NPC Cardassians whenever possible in the last important Iconian War missions, and revamping their arcs is somehow "minimizing them".
Wow.
And I don't even know where you're getting off with your comment about "fan fiction and reality" nonsense. Is that aimed at my Kzinti/Ferasan explanation, and your subsequent retort? Because if so, it turns out you're going to be Still Wrong about that (as there is evidence backing me up in that regard).
But whatever, buddy. You've already dug your heels in and refuse to listen to be convinced of anything. And that's fine, I don't care either way.
If a Cardassian faction does happen, though (which it can still totally happen, maybe), then.... well, I'm still not gonna care, really.
I will probably have fun playing as a Cardassian Defense Force Officer, though.
I can accept having to become allied to the Federation or Klingons. It would make sense actually, since they had to dismantle their military after the war, much like Japan. So you could start out as a part of their self-defense force, be instrumental in taking down True Way terrorists, and then be given more jurisdiction under the supervision of the UFP and KDF at level 10.
To me that would be vastly preferable to having a Cardassian/Dominion mash up faction! The Jem'Hadar are the terrorist's allies, not Cardassia's. The Romulan story was great because it was so personal, and the Cardassian one should be the same way.
My two cents
Thanks for the expansion that had "as much content as the last"
9 Episodes = 30+ episodes...?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
It's pronounced "S.T.O." "Stow" sounds idiotic! lol
Romulans had far more canon ship designs then the Cardys do. Its not really the same at all.
This is actually the less relevant point in the whole debate. How many canon ship designs (or refits/upgrades) are there in any faction compared to completely new designs? The Federation probably has a decent chunk, but Klingon and Romulan ships are 70-80% invented for STO.
Memory Alpha totals 4 "named" military ship classes and a few other unnamed/unknown/generic vessels for the Romulan Star Empire, most of them are only mentioned in speech and never seen, or one-of-a-kind prototypes. Excluding refits/retrofits, we have about 15 ship classes in STO for Romulans.
The Klingons have about 10 on-screen/named designs, yet they have even more current ship classes in STO (25-30?).
Cardassians can wield 4 on-screen/named designs, which is a decent base to build a minor faction on (except Federation, and, to a lesser degree Klingons, all other factions can be viewed as "minor" except, perhaps, the Dominion, but that one is not suited well for a STO faction, part because pretty much all of their unique ships are lockbox/lobi ships, and part because all of their races are somehow genetically engineered to have little to no indipendent thought).
Has any of the naysayers thought that the reason why there is a Cardassian representative at all these cross-faction conferences is precisely to ensure they have development room in the storyline for Cardassians?
Has any of the naysayers thought that the reason why there is a Cardassian representative at all these cross-faction conferences is precisely to ensure they have development room in the storyline for Cardassians?
this.
plus lack of canon ships isnt really a problem. The devs of star trek armada 1 and 2 came up with a bunch of non-canon cardy ships that felt Cardassian.
I think another fraction at this point would stretch development too thin when you look at how hard it is already for them to keep the KDF and Romulans up to date with new ships alongside the federation which gets the most attention, they should just be a playable species added to existing factions and include their ships in the store occasionally and call it a day, but we could certainly have an adventure zone on Cardassia perhaps.
I agree with this, while I would love to see more factions in game, but look at the current game. Klingon faction in the game from the very beginning was technically a PvP faction that was finally given a better PVE story line. The Romulans were added as a hybrid faction. Both are still missing ship types while the federation is constantly getting new ships. Almost all of the new content is written as if played from a federation point of view.
Do you really want to bring in another faction that gets treated as if it doesn't matter.
One token Cardassian Captain, and one token Cardassian ship, and the new revamp Cardassian missions feature LESS Cardassians then the old ones.
Yep, totally throwing them in "whenever possible" except all those missions throughout Delta rising and the Iconian War were none show up at all, and the revamp which is removing most of the Cardassians from the storyline.
Man, you are delusional.
You had to use that stupid argument again, there are 2 Romulan ships in the battle for earth, the Ca'wwr and the Lleiset, there are 2 cardassian ships as well, the Taced and the C.U.V. Damar, there are 2 Kobali ships too, the Munusi and the Sotunde, does that mean the Cardassians or the Kobali sent a force equivalent to the Romulans?
No, because what happens during a mission is not canon, only the basic story is.
I agree with this, while I would love to see more factions in game, but look at the current game. Klingon faction in the game from the very beginning was technically a PvP faction that was finally given a better PVE story line. The Romulans were added as a hybrid faction. Both are still missing ship types while the federation is constantly getting new ships. Almost all of the new content is written as if played from a federation point of view.
I don't expect any single faction to get anywhere close to where Federation currently is as far as ship types and storyline is concerned. Federation is Star Trek, basically. Other playable factions are there to add flavor. I wouldn't expect any new faction to get more than a single ship per lower tiers, and a bunch of end-game ships (one per type), and slowly build up from there (when multi-faction packs, or expansion packs are released).
Anyone who expects any other faction to be comparable to Federation content-wise is bound to be disappointed. It will never happen and we know that (it is easy to read the devs intention, just check the Delta Rising pack, 4 Fed ships, 2 Klingon and 2 Romulan, by design!).
Has any of the naysayers thought that the reason why there is a Cardassian representative at all these cross-faction conferences is precisely to ensure they have development room in the storyline for Cardassians?
By that backwards logic we should be seeing playable Xindi soon as well.
You had to use that stupid argument again, there are 2 Romulan ships in the battle for earth, the Ca'wwr and the Lleiset, there are 2 cardassian ships as well, the Taced and the C.U.V. Damar, there are 2 Kobali ships too, the Munusi and the Sotunde, does that mean the Cardassians or the Kobali sent a force equivalent to the Romulans?
No, because what happens during a mission is not canon, only the basic story is.
Nice bold faced lie.
http://sto.gamepedia.com/Mission:_Midnight
There are three Romulan ships, and ONE Cardassian ship. On top of that you can see more Fed/Klingon/Rom ships in the large background battle, not so for the other races.
Keep distorting facts to try to suit your fan-fiction. It only means your digging your hole deeper m8.
I don't expect any single faction to get anywhere close to where Federation currently is as far as ship types and storyline is concerned.
Romulans have the most story missions actually, and with the Cardassian story revamp, Klingons will have just as many as the Feds.
Keep up them MEMES!
That wiki is wrong, because it can be edited by anyone (and it's not 100% up to date), I replayed that mission 3 times today, and once more after your post, I couldn't find the RRW Simis anywhere, there were many Klingon ships I couldn't find either, and there were several klingon ships missing, there is also a Benthan ship the B.G.S. Ngaio which is also missing.
Has any of the naysayers thought that the reason why there is a Cardassian representative at all these cross-faction conferences is precisely to ensure they have development room in the storyline for Cardassians?
By that backwards logic we should be seeing playable Xindi, Kobali, and Defari soon as well!
Really, I wasn't aware that there were Xindi, Kobali, and Defari in the 2600 arc and Temporal Ambassador as well, where did I miss them?
Why would the Cardassians be another faction? Are they not, in canon, firmly allied with the Federation? This would be like asking for a Denobulan faction, wouldn't it?
Why would the Cardassians be another faction? Are they not, in canon, firmly allied with the Federation? This would be like asking for a Denobulan faction, wouldn't it?
Many factions are allied with the federation, but that doesn't mean they are part of the federation, apparently the Denobulans are part of the federation in STO since Taggart (your academy instructor) is a Denobulan captain.
SPOILER WARNING SPOILER WARNING SPOILER WARNING
I have just checked out the first (badlands) mission from the revamp on tribble. they have put so much effort into everything. the doors look far better, the walls, the windows look like something from ds9(show) only a tad nicer(they look a tad darker in color. the cargo crates even got a new look.
why would they do all that for just a few missions. its possible. but why do all that effort for a simple revamp?
Why would the Cardassians be another faction? Are they not, in canon, firmly allied with the Federation? This would be like asking for a Denobulan faction, wouldn't it?
*sob* You just had to remind me about that, didn't you?
OH WHY NO PLAYABLE DENOBULANS FOR THE FEDERATION, CRYPTIC?!!?
SPOILER WARNING SPOILER WARNING SPOILER WARNING
I have just checked out the first (badlands) mission from the revamp on tribble. they have put so much effort into everything. the doors look far better, the walls, the windows look like something from ds9(show) only a tad nicer(they look a tad darker in color. the cargo crates even got a new look.
why would they do all that for just a few missions. its possible. but why do all that effort for a simple revamp?
I did play the mission as well, they made a great revamp and cardassians now have more hair styles and look less generic, this can be a hint for something bigger, but it may be just a revamp, cryptic likes to hint future content, for example, Tholian rep was hinted during the 2800, Xindi stuff was hinted with the Xindi delegate, we've seen Cardassians in 3 major conferences, cardassian ships in the Iconian war and now a cardassian revamp, they might be hinting the faction, but it might be just a coincidence.
Really, I wasn't aware that there were Xindi, Kobali, and Defari in the 2600 arc and Yesterdays Enterprise as well, where did I miss them?
-http://sto.gamepedia.com/Mission:_Second_Wave#Deferi
--The Defari Ambassador Surah is one of the KEY races, alongside, Feds, Klingons, and Cardassians, to take place at the conference on DS9 about forming the anti-borg taskforce.
-http://sto.gamepedia.com/Mission:_Surface_Tension#Federation
--The Xindi show up to take part in the multi-racial conference to decide on what to do about the Dyson spheres.
-and OFC Kobali play a major part in Delta Rising, the Delta Alliance, and send ships to help defend Earth in Midnight.
So it makes sense Cryptic is hinting that all of these races, due to helping out in these multi-racial events, are gong to become playable right? right?
NOPE! It just means they are there because they logically would be to some degree.
It helps if you play the game past the Klingon War sotry arc, you haven't seen these guys because you haven't gotten that far in the plot apparently.
Also, are you SERIOUSLY trying to use an episode made... BEFORE THE XINDI OR KOBALI EVEN EXISTED IN LORE as proof of anything? Holy TRIBBLE, you are delusional, and really want to hold onto your fan-fiction huh?
There's a key flaw to this argument....
Your assessment does not take into account dev plans. We can't see those, but they have more impact on future content than the mission that get made.
The question then becomes "Why did the devs put Rugan Skyl into Yesterday's enterprise?" Is he just filler or did they have an ulterior motive?
@shpoks: I'm hoping it's because Dr. Phlox advocating for genocide by inaction, based on a misrepresentation of evolution that any first-year biology student could point out the mistakes in, left as much of a bad taste in Cryptic's mouth as it did in mine.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Really, I wasn't aware that there were Xindi, Kobali, and Defari in the 2600 arc and Yesterdays Enterprise as well, where did I miss them?
-http://sto.gamepedia.com/Mission:_Second_Wave#Deferi
--The Defari Ambassador Surah is one of the KEY races, alongside, Feds, Klingons, and Cardassians, to take place at the conference on DS9 about forming the anti-borg taskforce.
-http://sto.gamepedia.com/Mission:_Surface_Tension#Federation
--The Xindi show up to take part in the multi-racial conference to decide on what to do about the Dyson spheres.
-and OFC Kobali play a major part in Delta Rising, the Delta Alliance, and send ships to help defend Earth in Midnight.
So it makes sense Cryptic is hinting that all of these races, due to helping out in these multi-racial events, are gong to become playable right? right?
NOPE! It just means they are there because they logically would be to some degree.
It helps if you play the game past the Klingon War sotry arc, you haven't seen these guys because you haven't gotten that far in the plot apparently.
Also, are you SERIOUSLY trying to use an episode made... BEFORE THE XINDI OR KOBALI EVEN EXISTED IN LORE as proof of anything? Holy TRIBBLE, you are delusional, and really want to hold onto your fan-fiction huh?
There's a key flaw to this argument....
Your assessment does not take into account dev plans. We can't see those, but they have more impact on future content than the mission that get made.
The question then becomes "Why did the devs put Rugan Skyl into Yesterday's enterprise?" Is he just filler or did they have an ulterior motive?
We know they like to add stuff that looks innocent at firsts glance and then it turns out to be an easter egg about their future plans.
@shpoks: I'm hoping it's because Dr. Phlox advocating for genocide by inaction, based on a misrepresentation of evolution that any first-year biology student could point out the mistakes in, left as much of a bad taste in Cryptic's mouth as it did in mine.
Yes, by this analogy we should all just die because Hitler and similar people existed! Wait......does this mean we shouldn't have Humans in STO because surely WWII left a bad taste in someone's mouth over at Cryptic?
If we go by your personal extreme butthurt you're continuously displaying on the forum towards certain species, we'd probably be without a third of the species seen in Star Trek. Luckily, you're not a dev of this game. My advice - less butthurt and ranting, more positive vibes!
Issue with the Minimalist approach is that many did not like the approach, as well as lead to it being so minor ship an race choice wise that almost would have been better to roll them into other factions kinda. With the Cardassians it is even worse really as are they going to either one open the dominion ships to the cardassian faction or make new Alpha dominion ships just for the cardassian/jem'hadar faction? Where as they could put those into a lock box without the hassle. This is why i think a multi-race faction of several more known races allying with the cardassians would make sense to give them more veriety, and also keep them from the welfare ship choices of rom faction, in that the roms choices of ships are inflated by non-rom faction ships.
For the lockboxes i could see them using updated dominion, cardassian, and then one or two new boxes for the season. It is just the limited number of true ships of those groups we know exist in the series. I mean if you look at Midnight episode we see them bring out a new Jem'hadar battleship design that was not used before.
At least the Cardassians would have more species under their belt than Romulans had. Cardies could get Valerians, Klaestrons, Xepolites or Lissepians as their faction's alternate species in addition to Cardassians themselves and Alien-gens. They might even get renegade Bajorans if Cryptic feels generous.
Also, are you SERIOUSLY trying to use an episode made... BEFORE THE XINDI OR KOBALI EVEN EXISTED IN LORE as proof of anything? Holy TRIBBLE, you are delusional, and really want to hold onto your fan-fiction huh?
"before the Xindi or Kobali existed in lore" is irrelevant, they have existed in-continuity before they were featured in the lore. That's how continuities work.
Really, I wasn't aware that there were Xindi, Kobali, and Defari in the 2600 arc and Yesterdays Enterprise as well, where did I miss them?
-http://sto.gamepedia.com/Mission:_Second_Wave#Deferi
--The Defari Ambassador Surah is one of the KEY races, alongside, Feds, Klingons, and Cardassians, to take place at the conference on DS9 about forming the anti-borg taskforce.
-http://sto.gamepedia.com/Mission:_Surface_Tension#Federation
--The Xindi show up to take part in the multi-racial conference to decide on what to do about the Dyson spheres.
-and OFC Kobali play a major part in Delta Rising, the Delta Alliance, and send ships to help defend Earth in Midnight.
So it makes sense Cryptic is hinting that all of these races, due to helping out in these multi-racial events, are gong to become playable right? right?
NOPE! It just means they are there because they logically would be to some degree.
It helps if you play the game past the Klingon War sotry arc, you haven't seen these guys because you haven't gotten that far in the plot apparently.
Also, are you SERIOUSLY trying to use an episode made... BEFORE THE XINDI OR KOBALI EVEN EXISTED IN LORE as proof of anything? Holy TRIBBLE, you are delusional, and really want to hold onto your fan-fiction huh?
I thought we'd just celebrated our seventh anniversary, not our 15th.
However, the missions in question are intended as cross faction missions and as such would have placeholders for future factions, Rugen Skyle is present in every cross faction mission involving diplomats, and is an interactable NPC whilst looking for someone to distract the Tholians in Temporal Ambassador.
All in all, the point is that if they wanted to add a Cardassian Faction the groundwork has already been laid to avoid massive rewrites of all the cross faction missions in game.
Comments
This. The Cardassian's iconic ship is a lockbox ship. They shot themselves in the foot with that. Almost ALL Jem'Hadar ships are available to players via lockbox, Lobi, and promos. if they make another playable Cardassian ship, it might be a T6 Keldon or Hideki Raider *Cue KDF rage at another cross faction Raider*. So far the only Jem'Hadar ship that isn't playable besides the fighter is the battlecruiser.
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
Ah yes, because adding in NPC Cardassians whenever possible in the last important Iconian War missions, and revamping their arcs is somehow "minimizing them".
Wow.
And I don't even know where you're getting off with your comment about "fan fiction and reality" nonsense. Is that aimed at my Kzinti/Ferasan explanation, and your subsequent retort? Because if so, it turns out you're going to be Still Wrong about that (as there is evidence backing me up in that regard).
But whatever, buddy. You've already dug your heels in and refuse to listen to be convinced of anything. And that's fine, I don't care either way.
If a Cardassian faction does happen, though (which it can still totally happen, maybe), then.... well, I'm still not gonna care, really.
I will probably have fun playing as a Cardassian Defense Force Officer, though.
To me that would be vastly preferable to having a Cardassian/Dominion mash up faction! The Jem'Hadar are the terrorist's allies, not Cardassia's. The Romulan story was great because it was so personal, and the Cardassian one should be the same way.
My two cents
9 Episodes = 30+ episodes...?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
It's pronounced "S.T.O." "Stow" sounds idiotic! lol
This is actually the less relevant point in the whole debate. How many canon ship designs (or refits/upgrades) are there in any faction compared to completely new designs? The Federation probably has a decent chunk, but Klingon and Romulan ships are 70-80% invented for STO.
Memory Alpha totals 4 "named" military ship classes and a few other unnamed/unknown/generic vessels for the Romulan Star Empire, most of them are only mentioned in speech and never seen, or one-of-a-kind prototypes. Excluding refits/retrofits, we have about 15 ship classes in STO for Romulans.
The Klingons have about 10 on-screen/named designs, yet they have even more current ship classes in STO (25-30?).
Cardassians can wield 4 on-screen/named designs, which is a decent base to build a minor faction on (except Federation, and, to a lesser degree Klingons, all other factions can be viewed as "minor" except, perhaps, the Dominion, but that one is not suited well for a STO faction, part because pretty much all of their unique ships are lockbox/lobi ships, and part because all of their races are somehow genetically engineered to have little to no indipendent thought).
this.
plus lack of canon ships isnt really a problem. The devs of star trek armada 1 and 2 came up with a bunch of non-canon cardy ships that felt Cardassian.
I agree with this, while I would love to see more factions in game, but look at the current game. Klingon faction in the game from the very beginning was technically a PvP faction that was finally given a better PVE story line. The Romulans were added as a hybrid faction. Both are still missing ship types while the federation is constantly getting new ships. Almost all of the new content is written as if played from a federation point of view.
Do you really want to bring in another faction that gets treated as if it doesn't matter.
You had to use that stupid argument again, there are 2 Romulan ships in the battle for earth, the Ca'wwr and the Lleiset, there are 2 cardassian ships as well, the Taced and the C.U.V. Damar, there are 2 Kobali ships too, the Munusi and the Sotunde, does that mean the Cardassians or the Kobali sent a force equivalent to the Romulans?
No, because what happens during a mission is not canon, only the basic story is.
I don't expect any single faction to get anywhere close to where Federation currently is as far as ship types and storyline is concerned. Federation is Star Trek, basically. Other playable factions are there to add flavor. I wouldn't expect any new faction to get more than a single ship per lower tiers, and a bunch of end-game ships (one per type), and slowly build up from there (when multi-faction packs, or expansion packs are released).
Anyone who expects any other faction to be comparable to Federation content-wise is bound to be disappointed. It will never happen and we know that (it is easy to read the devs intention, just check the Delta Rising pack, 4 Fed ships, 2 Klingon and 2 Romulan, by design!).
That wiki is wrong, because it can be edited by anyone (and it's not 100% up to date), I replayed that mission 3 times today, and once more after your post, I couldn't find the RRW Simis anywhere, there were many Klingon ships I couldn't find either, and there were several klingon ships missing, there is also a Benthan ship the B.G.S. Ngaio which is also missing.
Here is the Taced:
Here it is the Damar:
Both ships during the final charge:
Here is the background:
There are only iconian ships there.
Please stop lying.
Really, I wasn't aware that there were Xindi, Kobali, and Defari in the 2600 arc and Temporal Ambassador as well, where did I miss them?
Many factions are allied with the federation, but that doesn't mean they are part of the federation, apparently the Denobulans are part of the federation in STO since Taggart (your academy instructor) is a Denobulan captain.
I have just checked out the first (badlands) mission from the revamp on tribble. they have put so much effort into everything. the doors look far better, the walls, the windows look like something from ds9(show) only a tad nicer(they look a tad darker in color. the cargo crates even got a new look.
why would they do all that for just a few missions. its possible. but why do all that effort for a simple revamp?
*sob*
OH WHY NO PLAYABLE DENOBULANS FOR THE FEDERATION, CRYPTIC?!!?
I did play the mission as well, they made a great revamp and cardassians now have more hair styles and look less generic, this can be a hint for something bigger, but it may be just a revamp, cryptic likes to hint future content, for example, Tholian rep was hinted during the 2800, Xindi stuff was hinted with the Xindi delegate, we've seen Cardassians in 3 major conferences, cardassian ships in the Iconian war and now a cardassian revamp, they might be hinting the faction, but it might be just a coincidence.
Your assessment does not take into account dev plans. We can't see those, but they have more impact on future content than the mission that get made.
The question then becomes "Why did the devs put Rugan Skyl into Yesterday's enterprise?" Is he just filler or did they have an ulterior motive?
My character Tsin'xing
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
We know they like to add stuff that looks innocent at firsts glance and then it turns out to be an easter egg about their future plans.
Yes, by this analogy we should all just die because Hitler and similar people existed!
If we go by your personal extreme butthurt you're continuously displaying on the forum towards certain species, we'd probably be without a third of the species seen in Star Trek. Luckily, you're not a dev of this game. My advice - less butthurt and ranting, more positive vibes!
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The Cardassians wouldn't so much be a sub-faction, like the Romulans, but simply a race choice with a few extra missions and ships.
Even that I doubt will happen. To much cost for too liittle reward
Daizen - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
Selia - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
There is realy no Need for another faction, and i have not the time for more chars. Maybe 2-3 new repsystems - in the next 3 month
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I thought we'd just celebrated our seventh anniversary, not our 15th.
However, the missions in question are intended as cross faction missions and as such would have placeholders for future factions, Rugen Skyle is present in every cross faction mission involving diplomats, and is an interactable NPC whilst looking for someone to distract the Tholians in Temporal Ambassador.
All in all, the point is that if they wanted to add a Cardassian Faction the groundwork has already been laid to avoid massive rewrites of all the cross faction missions in game.