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New ship consoles and traits for future science ships (Science needs some love)
lucho80
Member Posts: 6,600 Bug Hunter
While I'm fine with escorts and cruisers getting +HP, + resistance, and +damage consoles/traits, we need some love in the science department.
If we start seeing T6 science variant ships, my hope is that the traits and consoles are geared towards science and ARE NOT PART GENS AND HEAL BOOSTS.
Examples of awesome science consoles:
1) Plasmonic leech - Yes, it's used by DPS mongers, but it's a science console boosted by flow caps. The DPS angle was an unfortunate side effect. Frankly, it wouldn't be an effective DPS console if the mechanic could be better implemented (Actual drain=Actual boost), but system limitations prevent that.
2) Voth Aceton Console - Best AoE drain in the game for a drain boat, hence why I stick with it. The damage at the end is good also, specially because the targets usually have their shield down.
3) Tachyon Detection Grid/Tachyon Detection Field - I know, their effectiveness is pretty much PvP, but they are 100% science consoles. If their boost scaled with starship sensors skill, they would be even more awesome.
Closest example of awesome science traits (non-exotic damage or heals, those are all over the place):
1) Improved Tachyon Beam - Yes, the end result is an AoE heal, frankly, some other kind of science effect like a shield power drain, a confuse, or some sort of placate current target would have been awesome. Ironic it got stuck in a cruiser.
2) Greedy Emitters - Stuck in a non-science ship, but at least it was free. Another potentially awesome trait. The first fault is it boosts DPS. Like example one, some other extra science effect would have been awesome. The effect doesn't stack if you use multiple drains, so the boost isn't that great, and useless in PvE. The very useless part is the immunity to drain. Unless I'm in PvP going head to head with another heavy drain boat (very rare since it's all Kemocite+torpedo death combo or zombie healboat lately), it has no use. The Breen, Tholians, and Voth all have negligible drain against anyone who would use drain in PvE in the first place.
3) All Hands on Deck - Not a science trait, and used also by DPS mongers, but it does reduce science ability cooldowns. That's all about I can say for this one.
P.S.
Not having to do with the topic, but some more science doffs would be great. Last three awesome ones (again, not part gens based) were the Voth Diplomat drain doff (my favorite), the GW engine fail doff (aweosme for CC), and the Tachyon Beam tractor doff.
If we start seeing T6 science variant ships, my hope is that the traits and consoles are geared towards science and ARE NOT PART GENS AND HEAL BOOSTS.
Examples of awesome science consoles:
1) Plasmonic leech - Yes, it's used by DPS mongers, but it's a science console boosted by flow caps. The DPS angle was an unfortunate side effect. Frankly, it wouldn't be an effective DPS console if the mechanic could be better implemented (Actual drain=Actual boost), but system limitations prevent that.
2) Voth Aceton Console - Best AoE drain in the game for a drain boat, hence why I stick with it. The damage at the end is good also, specially because the targets usually have their shield down.
3) Tachyon Detection Grid/Tachyon Detection Field - I know, their effectiveness is pretty much PvP, but they are 100% science consoles. If their boost scaled with starship sensors skill, they would be even more awesome.
Closest example of awesome science traits (non-exotic damage or heals, those are all over the place):
1) Improved Tachyon Beam - Yes, the end result is an AoE heal, frankly, some other kind of science effect like a shield power drain, a confuse, or some sort of placate current target would have been awesome. Ironic it got stuck in a cruiser.
2) Greedy Emitters - Stuck in a non-science ship, but at least it was free. Another potentially awesome trait. The first fault is it boosts DPS. Like example one, some other extra science effect would have been awesome. The effect doesn't stack if you use multiple drains, so the boost isn't that great, and useless in PvE. The very useless part is the immunity to drain. Unless I'm in PvP going head to head with another heavy drain boat (very rare since it's all Kemocite+torpedo death combo or zombie healboat lately), it has no use. The Breen, Tholians, and Voth all have negligible drain against anyone who would use drain in PvE in the first place.
3) All Hands on Deck - Not a science trait, and used also by DPS mongers, but it does reduce science ability cooldowns. That's all about I can say for this one.
P.S.
Not having to do with the topic, but some more science doffs would be great. Last three awesome ones (again, not part gens based) were the Voth Diplomat drain doff (my favorite), the GW engine fail doff (aweosme for CC), and the Tachyon Beam tractor doff.
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Partigens are super easy to build up high an affect so much that nearly everyone is running then at least over 100pts i'd imagine.
And healing boosts are just unneeded as there are so many abilities and traits that boost healing you really don't need any more. Plus by giving out so much "free" healing to players you've effectively cut out a whole class of playstyle, that of the healer. Used to be having a decent heal-boat was an asset to a team, but now anyone can tank like a beast and heal themselves instantly.
I'd love to see some attention put on things like viral matrix or other shutdowns. Maybe some sort of AOE shutdown ability, similar to a grav well but minus the partigens angle.
Or some attention to realistic shield draining or flow caps in general.
Science these days is limited to particle damage, crowd control and some limited drain abilities but there's so much more it could be. I want to be able to do some real space magic that nobody else in their cruisers and escorts can manage, so the rest of the team goes wtf? and the enemy doesn't know what hits them. Make science be as important to the team as bringing all those DPS monsters.
P.S. Not a lockbox ship a "real" ship with a freaking interior and maybe a uniform set lol.
P.P.S. While I'm at it I'll wish for world peace.
"It's easy to cling to principles when you're standing on a vessel with its bulkheads intact, manned by a crew that's not starving."
That's because it was...they don't give a damn about Science...because they don't sell as much as the pew pew of a Escort or Cruiser does in the damage rules all world that THEY built.
They've proven time and time again they can make a good Science ship...what are some of the big names in Science ships? The Vesta, the Temporal Science ships, the Palisade, and recently the Annorax. Three out of four luck based...the based of them all...extremely expensive and heavily luck based. The only one of the four that isn't Lock box/Doff pack/R&D pack based was the Vesta...and they probably made the Vesta line as good as it was to recoup the money to get the rights for the ship.
Other than those four does anyone really talk about anything else...is there really much else that truly shines the level those four do? Not really...why? Why else? The Bortasqu' effect! Make them suck so no one wants them and you don't have to bother making them...cept make a powerful one periodically for the loot boxes so the people craving a new Sci ship will hand over their money to obtain one...few and far between so the power creep between them is real...or each one is very unique and will cater to different play styles. Intentionally tanked the few T6 Sci ships they did make...the Scyer is perhaps the ugliest Sci ship I have ever seen...EVER. Not to mention it's lack luster Boff slotting...you can either give up some of your Sci slots for Intel abilities...or of course they had to make the Tac slot the other hybrid...like you can afford to lose a single tac slot on that ship.
Then there is the Dauntless...nothing but a want to be escort but not as good...to make it worse they give it a healer ship trait. Then there is the T6 Voyager...nothing beyond a generic sci pretty much...unless you're just hell bent on getting that one extra boff slot may as well just stick with your T5U ship...
Then they make something like the Annorax...a actually good ship that can do great DPS...no surprise it's behind the most expensive pay wall in the game...that will likely be replaced soon enough by something even more insane if the rumors are true.
More and more I wonder if it's time to call it quits...because all we see is more and more of the same from them...and its nothing but a game revolving the all mighty damage dealer...
You guys get love, but they seem to want to move in a direction of having multi purpose ships as opposed to focus on on particular profession now.
Exactly what I think of the science ships in the game. Your list of good science ships is the same as mine. I don't use them, but the Samsar and Recluse make good heal boats, it's just not the kind of science gameplay I like. The Scryer is ugly, but I guess you can use OSS to uber charge sci abilities (still wouldn't fly it).
Starship Mastery Trait - Advanced Sensor Manipulation
When you confuse a target (for example with Scramble Sensors), it becomes placated when the confusion ends. When you placate a target (for example, with Jam Sensors), it becomes confused afterwards. This does not happen if the effect is cleansed, and targets gain immunity to this effect for 30 seconds afterwards.
This provides a much needed boost to jam sensors and scramble sensors. Maybe it's not enough, and we need something else entirely because jamming and scrambling sucks. (Scramble would probably be devestating if it was given to NPCs in these day and age of FAW
Starship Mastery Trait - Improved Photonic Shockwave
(I also had an idea for an alternative trait if scrambling/jamming seems just too uninteresting, though I would probably give this more to a Tier 6 Nova.)
The area of effect of your Photonic Shockwave extends to 5km, and the damage ignores shields. Any affected targets are also placated for the duration of the stuff.
Special Hangar Bay Item - Tactical Sensor Drone
(this is more somethnig for Carriers and Hangar-Bay equipped Science Vessels like the Vesta. My suggestion for the Tier 6 Varanus/DSSV/Ha'nom is to give them a hangar bay, to compensate their low turn rate.)
Sensor Drones can be equipped on any hangar and launches 3 sensor drones. Up to 6 sensor drones can be active at the same time. Each Sensor Drone also has Energy Field Analysis. If used on an enemy, the enemy takes additional damage to shields from energy attacks, and torpedoes gain a small amount of shield penetration. If used on an ally, shields heal additional damage and gain a small amount of bonus shield hardness.
In addition, the Drones can use Viral Matrix.
Special Console - Advanced Sensor Platform
While this console is equipped, it grants a bonus to Starship Sensors. You can deploy a sensor platform. The platform will periodically emit a sensor scan that grants a hull resistance penalty to enemies within 10km and grants allies within 10 km a bonus to stealth perception and accuracy. If the sensor platform is destroyed, it will emit a sensor analysis of the attacker which causes the attacker to suffer a stealth penalty and a penalty to damage.
Visual Design Suggestion: The Varanus Repair Platform might be the basis for this. Maybe put it on its head and put some antennas on top.
Console Synergy: Varanus Repair Platform + Advanced Sensor Platform: Improves Perception and auxiliary power. (Which means this times only the Klingons get a console synergy.)
(The console can be equipped on any Varanus, Ha'nom or DSV.)
On another note, since a lot of sci boat captains are here, I started a thread on sci boat builds and I'm hoping you can share yours here. I'm hoping to create a library of builds that's easily searchable to help aspiring sci boat captains gain ideas on how they could build their ships.
| USS Curiosity - Pathfinder | USS Rift - Eternal |
The Science Ship Build Thread - Share your Sci Ship builds here!
I like this, but because of placates are so fragile, I think it would not be that useful. Main problem is tied to the fact that whilest hps/dmg is inflated heavily, the fragile part of jam sensors is not and breaks after what ? 20k dmg at best? That's what ? 1second at best? Also NPCs are heavily resistant to scrambles and you get immunity after it expires.
Nice I guess...but people nowadays prefer NPCs clustered and not spread in 20km radius.
Sounds good I guess, well it wouldn't hurt at least...
That I like, feels sciency enough.
PSW doesn't spread targets very far. It's not like tractor Beam Repulsors without the DOFF.
More Ideas
Starship Mastery Trait - Improved Charged Particle Burst
Your Charged Particle Bursts range extends to 7.5 km lower the target's recieved shield heals and shield regeneration by 50 % for 10 seonds and the target has a 33 % chance to be confused for 5 seconds. (These effects can be cleansed with Science Team)
Improved Tyken's Rift
When your Tyken's Rift ends, it releases a burst of energy in a 5km radius that stuns enemies for a second and inflicts some shield drain.
Improved Energy Siphon
Your Energy Siphon also drains a small amount of shield from the target for the duration, and you recieve a shield heal yourself.
Simple change from Jam sensor is to go from absolute numbers to relative, ie. scale the fraile part from targets HPS.
Something like 10%+AUX/10 for version 1, 20%+AUX/10 for version 2, 30%+AUX/10 for version 3
Enhanced Sensor Jamming
Jam Sensors essentially blinds target, making it unable to acquire any target for the duration or until it breaks.
I am not sure, but I think for NPCs, this effect might be indistinguishable from a regular placate. against players it would matter, but PvP buffs for these powers aren't really a big goal, I think.
Maybe the target could suffer an accuracy penalty after the sensor jam runs out?
Though I always thought that maybe higher levels of Jam Sensors and Tractor Beam should be able to target multiple enemies, since the other benefits are barely worth it.
We already have that with the Solanae 2nd deflector. Works great on my drain boat since it scales with flow caps. Makes Tachyon Beam pack a mean punch.
Sorry...went on a little bit of a rant there...but yeah seems like they don't give the least bit care for science and it makes me sadder each day. I love science, just something so much more fun about opening spatial rifts to either drain or hold targets...much more interesting than just staring at beams firing endlessly.
Basically gotten to the point where only GW and TBR are the only non-heal science abilities worth using...even then TBR can be quite annoying and worthless if not used right. If we didn't have ST and HE would having Science slots on a ship even be useful?
While Tac and Eng got some interesting ability with the Xindi lock box what does Science get? A rift that its only function is to do damage...sure you can count the teleport but honestly do people use it to teleport?
Not to mention they treat us like we're mentally challenged or something because we fly Sci ships...do we really need a huge arrow pointing to our target of SA?
It is, and in my eyes, the best science console in the game. The Tachyon Platform is an excellent science console, unfortunately, it sits on a cruiser and needs the 3 piece set to function to it's max potential.
What "killed" Crowd Control in ISA is taking out the mandatory in ISA into optional that the team must prevent healing. Blame the Advance nerf supporters there. Besides this logic of currently dont need Crowd control in ISA only applies to non min/maxers. If you are using TS3+kemo, you must have crowd control to effectively optimize that TS3+kemo. If you are using Nadion Bomb, you also need Crowd Control to optimize the Nadion Bomb.
With regards to wiping mobs clean. In the current mechanics, TS3+kemo kills/wipes faster than optimal BFAW pure beam boat.
Witch Hunt BFAW hate from you I suppose?
The whole way the skill tree is set up really disadvantages sci. To go full pew pew you can ignore so many areas and have it not matter. Even if you want to build a bit of survivability into that you are not sacrificing much.
It certainly doesn't hurt that both are relatively cheap to spec into as well.
Do you all even look at the parses? Or only spread rumors?
DPS wise/max one hit Per weapon torps trump beam, even if you discount the kemo and embassy console damages. You got to add all frontal DBB BFAW just to be in parity with one torp using torp spread.
Too much blinded by hate to even bother looking at the parses.
Did you think I disagreed with this sentence? Because I did not. I just have a different conclusion then you. Just because TS3 + Kemocite is now stronger than a BFAW pure beam boat doesn't mean the BFAW pure beam boat is suddenly okay. Cryptic has to fix Kemocite (and going by the parses, it behaves just wrong, at least together with Torpedo Spread), but it also has to either buff CSV and CRF, or peg BFAW down a bit so there is some more variability in the wonderful DPS lands of Star Trek Online.
Boosted by: Graviton Generators, Beam Consoles, Starship Weapons Training, Starship Energy Weapons, Starship Targeting System, Starship Energy Weapons Specialization
Countered by: Inertial Dampers
Effect: While not nearly as powerful as the typical phaser beam array, the Graviton Beam Array targets a ship with a focused graviton beam which induces tidal stress on the hull of a target ship, completely bypassing its shields. Objects such as weapons platforms or destructible projectiles are most vulnerable to this weapon, which is countered by Inertial Dampers. Active healing does not counter, but repairs, the damage inflicted. This weapon gains synergy with each of the four Subsystem Targeting Attacks, increasing their chance to disable a subsystem. The proc of this weapon is its 2.5% chance to stun a ship for three seconds, rendering it incapable of maneuver and incapacitating its bridge crew and captains powers while stunned. A ship thus stunned is immune to the effect for the next fifteen seconds.
Science Weapon: Graviton Torpedo Launcher
Boosted by: Torpedo Consoles, Graviton Generators, Starship Weapons Training, Starship Projectile Weapons, Starship Targeting Systems, Starship Projectile Weapon Specialization, Projectile Weapon Duty Officers, Gravimetric Scientist Duty Officers
Countered by: N/A
Effect: While not nearly as powerful as the typical photon torpedo launcher, and with a longer reload time, this torpedo inflicts kinetic damage within a 2km AoE which completely bypasses the target's shields. A Graviton Torpedo enhanced by the BOff power Torpedo: High Yield gains a 33% chance to create a Gravity Well upon impact, and this Gravity Well can produce Aftershock Gravity Wells if Gravimetric Scientist Duty Officers are on active duty. As always, High Yield torpedoes are targetable and destructible.
Science Console: Anti-Gravitic Pulse Generator
Boosted by: Starship Particle Generators, Starship Subspace Decompiler
Countered by: Distance to target, Starship Impulse Thrusters, Gravimetric Scientist Duty Officer, Gravity Well
Effect: All objects are pushed away from the focus point of this attack. It is in effect a reversed Gravity Well, inflicting kinetic damage to any vessel which remains inside its 5km range as it pushes all objects away, with diminishing returns over distance. Impulse Thrusters overcome the push effect, but not the kinetic damage inflicted. If a ship is the target of this attack it becomes the central focus point, which moves with it as the target ship moves. A ship within the area of effect of this power which has an active Gravimetric Scientist Duty Officer has a chance to nullify the Anti-Gravitic Pulse equal to his chance to create an additional Gravity Well. A Gravity Well targeted upon or upon a target within an Anti-Gravitic Pulse Singularity nullifies both the Gravity Well and the Anti-Gravcitic Pulse, (and vice versa.) Appearance: the singularity appears as a bright white dot within a white corona of expanding rays equal in size to a Gravity Well.)
Science Console: Gravitic Stabilization
Boosted by: Inertial Dampers, Structural Integrity
Countered by: N/A
Effect: Bonus to both Inertial Dampers and Structural Integrity skills. This console offers a chance of immunity to any attack buffed by Starship Graviton Generators, including Tractor Beams, Tractor Beam Repulsors, and other 'Hold' powers. It will nullify the gravitic effect of a Gravity Well, but not its energy drain. The average of both Inertial Dampers and Structural Integrity skills equals the chance to negate the effect of such attacks. This is a passive ability.
Secondary Shield: Gravitic Phase Modulation
Boosted by: Starship Shield Performance, Starship Shield Emitters, Starship Shield Systems
Countered by: N/A
Effect: Bonus to Inertial Dampers. This shield also offers a chance for immunity and reduced damage from Gravitic/Anti-Gravitic attacks. Each Mark and Quality offers a percentage chance for immunity from any specific incoming or AoE attack which is boosted by Starship Graviton Generators. If the attack succeeds the damage that attack inflicts is reduced by the same percentage. Thus, a Mk X White Gravitic Phase Modulation Shield might offer a 10% chance of immunity, and reduces the attack's effectiveness by 10% if the chance for immunity fails.
Anti-Gravitic Two-Piece Set
When the Anti-Gravitic Pulse Generator is equipped with Graviton Torpedo Launchers, the torpedo launcher becomes an Anti-Gravitic Torpedo Launcher, which converts the Gravity Well proc into an Anti-Gravitic Pulse Singularity. All anti-gravitic torpedoes fired have a 2.5% chance to generate an Anti-Gravitic Pulse Singularity which lasts 3-5 seconds. This singularity cannot be enhanced, and will never generate Aftershock Anti-Gravitic Pulse Singularities. This does not enhance the High Yield Graviton Torpedo in any way.
The gravitic stabilization ability or phase modulation would be a good PvP counter for all the people spamming TBR left and right lately as if it were FAW.
I did see one thing you need to edit:
It will nullify the gravitic effect of a Gravity Well, but not its energy drain - I think you meant damage. Energy drain is Tyken's rift.
Lets just talk what science can bring?
a) I think different type of shields enhancement should be applied to science
b) Creation of decoys, etc
Just from the top of my head, ad your thoughts.
Most unexpectedly, this turned into a flame-fest! Closed it goes!. /sigh What flamefestery is this? pwlaughingtrendy
I've played space elite queues a couple of times and pure science builds outside grav gens, or part gens do nothing. My 454 flow caps drain ship draining 350+ power off shields subsystemsis a joke to elite NPCs. I think all the latest science consoles, 2nd deflectors, etc, concentrate on boosting the damage on science ship, therefore dumbing down the role of science to yet another "press spacebar for DPS" ship. I think the devs need ideas as to how to bring science abilites back into the fold. In my book, #1 would be to lower the science resist (Like power insulators) off NPCs in Elite queues. I understand it for damage since DPS is out fo control, but science abilities aren't.
this ^^, would be nice if the spheres would get there uber EptE back. back in the day u need to a good GW to grab the runaways
Back to the bfaw issue, it is op and does need to be changed, simple fix is a massive acc debuff. instead of hitting everything with 100% acc, you maybe hit 70%, 80%. Think about it. It is a a fire at will, which means you fire quickly and mostly blindy, which means you should miss, not all the time, but often.
To kemo, it is bug and procs, more then it is suppose to.
As to the OP, which IMO is one of the best Sci's in the game, I don't think it is "show sci some love" as it is make sci more appealing. But with the path off least resistance this is hard to do, for all I need is a Bfaw, ts3 kemo build and now I have a "I win" space bar, so sci will never be the most appealing. Hell there are more Engi toons then scis.
Also maybe giving some races better traits towards science like for example the Vulcans. Maybe this race could have a special Science trait that others would never have.
Most unexpectedly, this turned into a flame-fest! Closed it goes!. /sigh What flamefestery is this? pwlaughingtrendy
Majority STO players is Tactical captains (fed tac) ALL love gone to them...
How many players have Science captain as MAIN character? 5-10% of ALL playbase... so forget about love.
My main is Sci.. i love ground healing abilities, but in space im flying a2b Cruisers/Escorts.
Only 2 starship traits i'm waiting for my Sci (but Cryptic will never make them).
1. Lock power.
If you lock power (weap, shld, eng or aux) it cannot be disabled or drined AND it cannot be raised/boosted (only 1 power can be locked).
2. Switch power.
A2sif, A2damp and A2bat takes weap power instead of aux power...
Some things probably shouldn't even be in the game and I'm inclined to say disables are one of them. Honestly, the main problem with this game is that it forces you to specialize in one thing so of course people will pick the most powerful thing. The game should allow you to have a small handful of specialties instead of just one. The Krenim consoles are a good step but I'm afraid a mechanic overhaul of the entire game would be in order for a permanent fix.
Several problems have this same root issue. Torpedoes not being used is anther symptom. What if each ship type had secondary console slots? For example, escorts have five tactical slots for any consoles and a certain number of secondary tactical slots for projectile boosting among other things. Secondary slots wouldn't be able to equip universals. Science has some fields that make good primaries like Drain and Exotic Damage while disables and confuses would make good secondary skills. You can equip any kind of science console in the primary slots but secondary slots only take certain types and won't fit universals. Also a max of five consoles of each type can be equipped to avoid super torp boats among other things. This would also differentiate each ship type making it harder for the lines between classes to be blurred.