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New Team/Profession Misions where DPS Doesnt Come into Play
taylor1701d
Member Posts: 3,099 Arc User
It's been discussed before, but what kind of missions/PvE would you like to see that doesn't require DPS, but a more team based "Strategic" approach ?
Maybe we'll give the Dev's a few ideas.
Off the top of my head, I can't think of many missions that don't solely revolve around DPS, but one that came to mind was Mine Trap (boarding up buildings, sticking to your quadrant, healing), and less-so, the Mirror Invasion Event mission, where portals must be closed (faster with Sci) where outpost's are repaired (faster with Engi's)....granted the rest of MI event is pretty DPS centric, but it has some interesting team play/profession elements involved.
Anyone have missions concepts that could work here ?
Or anyone want to point out other currently in-game missions where team and profession really matter to the outcome of the mission ?
One concept I had was inspired by the TNG episode where Sela wants to sneak past a federation blockade, and DATA at the last moment (In a Nebula as Captain) foils her plans with a tachyon detection field;
What if we had a queue where you and your team would be rewarded for snooping out enemy ships (trying to slip through the neutral zone) with things like the Tachyon Detection console, Sensor Scan, Charged Particle Burst, Attack Pattern Delta, Tractor Mines, etc etc etc....
Or Conversely, the opposite of this situation, where you and your team have to sneak past a Federation blockade which uses these aforementioned tactics. If you're spotted and or detected, your team fails.
You and your team would need to use things like Mask Energy Signature and so on to improve your stealth and reach the designated target.
That's one idea I had in mind. I think it might be an interesting mission to change the pace a little.
Perhaps even add profession related tasks to the end target zone, for example, your end target may be a Starbase that's being held by an enemy party, sci's would have to lower the targets shields first with drains and so forth, while engi's would have to next degrade the targets turret defense's with Aceton Beam for example, before Tac's could swoop in an hit the weakened turrets, allowing a ground team to move in unharmed to rescue the hostages or beam down to take out the enemy.
Rewards would be increased for completing the mission undetected and for escorting the ground team ship unharmed to the target. Rewards could be reduced for allowing the ground team ship to be harmed, or for being detected once or more times.
Anyone have ideas of their own ? Suggestions on how to make more use of professions, and little used skills such as Mask Energy Signal amongst others ?
I'm all for DPS (nothing against it), but a little variety may be just what we need. I think there needs to be more "thinking" missions, since this is Star Trek, and in the shows they rarely use brute force to solve their problems.
Maybe we'll give the Dev's a few ideas.
Off the top of my head, I can't think of many missions that don't solely revolve around DPS, but one that came to mind was Mine Trap (boarding up buildings, sticking to your quadrant, healing), and less-so, the Mirror Invasion Event mission, where portals must be closed (faster with Sci) where outpost's are repaired (faster with Engi's)....granted the rest of MI event is pretty DPS centric, but it has some interesting team play/profession elements involved.
Anyone have missions concepts that could work here ?
Or anyone want to point out other currently in-game missions where team and profession really matter to the outcome of the mission ?
One concept I had was inspired by the TNG episode where Sela wants to sneak past a federation blockade, and DATA at the last moment (In a Nebula as Captain) foils her plans with a tachyon detection field;
What if we had a queue where you and your team would be rewarded for snooping out enemy ships (trying to slip through the neutral zone) with things like the Tachyon Detection console, Sensor Scan, Charged Particle Burst, Attack Pattern Delta, Tractor Mines, etc etc etc....
Or Conversely, the opposite of this situation, where you and your team have to sneak past a Federation blockade which uses these aforementioned tactics. If you're spotted and or detected, your team fails.
You and your team would need to use things like Mask Energy Signature and so on to improve your stealth and reach the designated target.
That's one idea I had in mind. I think it might be an interesting mission to change the pace a little.
Perhaps even add profession related tasks to the end target zone, for example, your end target may be a Starbase that's being held by an enemy party, sci's would have to lower the targets shields first with drains and so forth, while engi's would have to next degrade the targets turret defense's with Aceton Beam for example, before Tac's could swoop in an hit the weakened turrets, allowing a ground team to move in unharmed to rescue the hostages or beam down to take out the enemy.
Rewards would be increased for completing the mission undetected and for escorting the ground team ship unharmed to the target. Rewards could be reduced for allowing the ground team ship to be harmed, or for being detected once or more times.
Anyone have ideas of their own ? Suggestions on how to make more use of professions, and little used skills such as Mask Energy Signal amongst others ?
I'm all for DPS (nothing against it), but a little variety may be just what we need. I think there needs to be more "thinking" missions, since this is Star Trek, and in the shows they rarely use brute force to solve their problems.
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Second, what I really want to see is combat made appropriately more complex, reinvigorating player roles other than DPS; we should need cruisers to tank and science vessels to buff/debuff/crowd control. That's also a tall order, I know, but not so tall a one as creating engaging non-combat content.
The only place where MES and my snooper build Nebula shine is in kerrat and I'd like to see missions where DPS is punished. E.g. avoid hostile forces and each time they are not avoided a game mechanic throws an injury your way.
But looking at how people play queues with strategies not involving DPS (CCA using exotic and torpedoes instead of pew pew tholians, disable gate to get bonus in elachi alert and mine trap)) and the complaints about the non combat missions at "Of Bajor" i doubt we will see that kind of mission get the spotlight.
Cannot be implemented? The "Of bajor" mission and the former FE "Delta Flight" both have large portions which are non combat. What makes you think it cannot be implemented?
The problem? It probably isn't going to be as fun. It'll be more strategic, and will require players to think and communicate, but that isn't what the majority is either capable of, or desires. Most people want to jump in a ship and unload a can of whoopass; that's exactly what Cryptic have given us.
The kinds of things that players like me would want to do, like for example being in Engineering and fixing the warp drive cannot be simulated with any realism or fun. Simply adding location objectives to a map (in engineering on a ship) that are fixed with clicking the F button is not implementing being an engineer. The mini games are repetitive and boring. Face it, 99% of everything in the game is combat and that's all that it will ever be.
Correction, it sucks IN YOUR OPINION. Personally i like the "Of Bajor" mission and it doesn't matter if i get impressed by flying through circles.
What matters is that there are mechanics for non combat content. If you want another example then look at the disarming of bombs in "Uneasy allies".
Sure, there will be limitation to what can be done but claiming it cannot be done is taking the easy way out.
It CAN be done and there WILL be players who enjoy that particular content even if it isn't done exactly how you would like it.
One thing they might do - which honestly they tried with borg disconnected is to focus on the many "please leave me alone" temp hp and no interrupts skills we have so you load up on those and are awesome in a mission geared for them.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
A good example of this is Borg Disconnected. 3/4 of the mission is made super easy if you used an ounce of grey matter instead of screaming "fire all weapons". Oh and teamwork, but that's even rarer than using the old brain.
Daizen - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
Selia - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
If there was ever a ground mission designed to give each class a use it was THAT.
You have buildings that need guarded> Eng+turret spam
You have civilians that will probably need healed> Sci (eng and tac do have some limited options here)
And of course you have salt vampires that need to die> tac(sort of, eng and sci can kill them too.)
Mine Trap's primary flaw was that it needs a team of 20 to play right. It can be done with 12, but works best with 20.
My character Tsin'xing
But Cryptic kept lowering the Bar, so the lower common denominator could do events. This was really obvious with the original Ground STFs (aka Borg Ground) and with Terrordrome. Now we still have this dumbed down gameplay, along with Elite Queued events which depend on DPS. But there is nothing that suits those in the middle who want smart, challenging play without DPS.
i think that is probably the biggest issue with exploration. a sophisticated exploration system built around diplomacy, non combat and gathering information/data/knowledge doesn't require gear and is not profitable.
My character Tsin'xing
In Star Trek, destroying a ship was always the last resort. I'd like to see more of that kind of thinking in combat moving forward.
An idea to implement this is to make subsystem targeting effects (both sci-ship ability and tac BOff skills) permanent on NPCs. To disable a ship you'll need to disable at least 3/4 subsystems while that NPC's hull is below 30%. That in itself will require quite a bit of coordination (who'l target which subsystem) to prevent killing that NPC instead of disabling.
Rescue missions would be good too. After the Iconian War, there should be a lot of collateral damage towards civilian ships. Maybe have a rescue mission where you are to tow civilian ships to safety while pirates are on the prowl. Pirates will be set to prioritize civilian ships. Your objective is to either stop them from beaming out cargo and people from civilian ships (difficult if multiple pirate ships are beaming stuff out at the same time) or crowd control them to escape with the civilian ship in tow. The beam out process should be sufficiently fast to make escape and evasion a more attractive strategy. If x number of civilian ships get robbed of their cargo/passengers, you'll fail your optional objectives.
Stealth missions would be nice too. The objective could be to bring relief supplies to a planet without being detected by pirates. You get marks and dil for every successful delivery run without being detected by patrols. Evasion can be through clever use of the environment such as nebulas that can scramble sensors (you'll also be blind) or through speed running through gaps in enemy patrols. To balance out the advantage cloaked ships may have in such a mission, patrols can have snooping capabilities that could detect cloaked ships within 10kms.
Overall, I'd like to see more missions where other tactics than simple direct combat is more rewarding. It'll be more Trek like and it'll add much needed variety to the game.
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I disagree. I'm positive they can implement a decent diplomacy system and they can easily make Exploration profitable. I just don't think their leadership realizes this potential and easily dismisses it. Which is ashame, because such a thing would be perfect for the Star Trek 50th Anniversary.
I'd be happy to let them pick my brain.
Interesting ideas, that sounds doable.
In one Operation (PvE Queue equivalent) during one boss battle, the team must talk with one another to find out who gets what color and where everyone stands. They even have to communicate on who hits what powercell to weaken said boss while DPS burns down the mobs. If the entire group goes in guns-a-blazing, then the entire op dies and FAST.
The final boss, the team has to hop from platform to platform to avoid the boss's tenticals all while the healers stay away and heal. You fall, you die.
Hmmmm, maybe that's why I have been spending more time in SWTOR than in STO lately.
Why? Well it makes assembling a team problematic. Also your suggestion ignores that STO doesn't HAVE a character class devoted to tanking.... or DPS.... To put it in RPG terms:
Tac; warrior/mage/cleric
Sci; mage/cleric/priest
Eng; summoner/buff-debuff
My character Tsin'xing
You start in a room with 3 NPC teams. A tactical team, and engineering team, and a science team. You get another random team of NPC's that spawn once every 30 seconds. You have zones that you have to send them to. Enemies will spawn on one or two different locations on the map and work their way towards you. You have to send tactical teams to key positions to stop the enemies, as well as send the engineering teams to places that can put up forcefields, activate turrets, or do disaster response (more on that later). Science teams could be used to get data from computers (mission objective?) or to heal injured teams.
Your mission might be to hold the field until you can extract some computer data, and you will lose if the enemies make it to your command post.
Tactical teams = best at combat but cannot perform engineering or science tasks.
Engineering teams = mediocre at combat, but can perform engineering tasks like activate a zone's defenses or repair a damaged zone (disaster response). They cannot perform science tasks.
Science teams = worst at combat, but can heal injured teams if they are in the same zone, and can perform science tasks like data extraction. Cannot perform engineering tasks.
So lets say the map is a crashed Iconian dreadnought. You have 10 zones:
Command Bridge (where you are)
Computer Core (science task)
Main hallway (engineering task)
Secondary hallway (engineering task)
Engineering (engineering task)
Crew Quarters
Maintenance Tunnels (engineering task)
Armory (buff for tactical teams)
Cargo Hold
Gate Room (Iconian gateway that spawns Iconians every 30 seconds)
You send your science team to the computer core to start extracting the data. You send your engineering team to the Main Hallway and they activate some defensive force fields. You send your tactical team to the secondary hallway to hopefully block the Iconians coming to get you.
The map could be laid out in such a way, that if you get engineering teams to the Main Hallway, the Secondary Hallway, and the Maintenance Tunnels, they block these areas with forcefields, forcing the Iconians to go through the armory to reach the Command Bridge. A tactical team in the armory gets a damage buff.
Every once in a while, a disaster might occur. An EPS conduit blows up in the secondary hallway, dropping the forcefields and damaging any team that is in or moves through that zone. Or a cargo container in the Cargo Hold bursts open, spawning Elachi Skitterers that roam around attacking your teams. Engineering teams would have to respond to these places and repair the EPS conduit, or transport the infested container out into space. Any other teams moving through or into these zones would take damage, and until repaired would put you at a tactical disadvantage.
In addition to the Gate Room spawning teams of Iconians that take the shortest route to the Command Bridge, it may also occasionally spawn an assassin that moves to the Computer Core to kill your science team.
If the Iconians make it to the Bridge, you fail the mission and fight a losing battle until you die.
There might be a tactician NPC there to help you. He or she would explain how everything works, what you have to do, and inform you of enemy troop movements (The iconians have entered the main hallway!) or inform you what your teams are doing (the science team has extracted 50% of the data from the computer core!) or (the tactical team in the maintenance tunnels are under heavy fire!) that sort of thing.
This concept could be done with a different theme as well, it doesn't have to be Iconians.
I can't imagine how complex this type of thing would be. If done right I think it would be more fun than the average ground mission though.
My character Tsin'xing
For example, Cure Ground:
Engineers that activate the Borg consoles that drop the shields make them go faster.
Science can instantly take the samples/free the prisoners
Tactical place the bombs around the Borg turrets faster.
This allows each role to add something different to the mission, but does not hinder the mission if you don't have a certain role.
Nukara(Exterior)
Engineer - When activating the console, 3 second stasis field.
Science - Does more damage to the Tholian portal.
Tactical - Nothing
Nukara (Interior)
Engineer - Places a temporary shield around the core/ does more damage with mine console.
Science - Does more damage do the holodeck/freeze consoles.
Tactical - Does more damage went the vent/shuttle console.
Space: Some missions could be revamped to include class specific objectives.
Cure Space:
Engineers - Can restart the Kang's engines early and allow it to leave the battlezone.
Azure Nebula:
Science - Frees ships quicker
Viscious Cycle:
Tactical - Transports assault teams quicker.
Just some thoughts.
That's true, but it's closer to what the captain (or admiral) would be doing in Star Trek. When someone boards the ship the captain stays on the bridge and issues orders. Teams of ensigns go out and do all the work.
It doesn't have to be an RTS inferface where you right-click on a map to move a team. I am imagining a series of dialog options in a conversation window. The tactician asks you where you want to send the tactical team and you have a separate answer for each zone. That type of thing.
My character Tsin'xing
First they should give shuttles their own type of equipment. Everything that brings the powercreep into the game should be taken out. We could get a great PvP platform.
For PvE we should have dogfights and bombing runs, atmospheric rescue mission etc. More or less a flight sim inside the game.
I mean: Power they can sell, or at least the illusion of it (for those thirdrates that think gear is all you need and then hilariously fail easy missions). But how would they gain profit from something that explicitly doesnt gain benefits from gear (or at least way way less benefit).
Just need this clarified before I add a response.
* You must explore a newly founded colony to learn what is needed to:
Tac - develop planetary defenses
Eng - build infrastructure
Sci - develop local resources
* You must then choose what tasks are most vital to the colony's success and set your crew to work to prevent the newly founded colony from failing.
* You must then determine if the efforts of your crew were sufficient to insure the colony's survival.
* You must then report your findings to the appropriate authorities.
The idea is that your Captain arrives at a recently planted colony to survey what has been accomplished and what is needed to make the colony a viable one. As your captain discovers things needing to be done, he can assign appropriate DOffs to the project.
Let us suppose that each career has six DOff missions, and there are another six that are generic, capable of being completed by any captain. Your captain must successfully complete some of the twelve missions to succeed. If over 60% of the available assignments are not successfully completed the colony must be evacuated until a better colonization effort is funded and undertaken. If 40% of the assignments are successful, the colony has a chance to survive. If 60% of the assignments succeed the colony will probably thrive, and if 80% of the assignments succeed, the colony's future is assured. If 100% of the projects succeed the colonists replicate a statue of you as a Founding Father/Mother of the colony, a copy of which can be displayed on your ship as a ground trophy or as a commemorative plaque for a wall trophy.
Tac Assignments
1) Establish Early Warning System - Security officers fine tune and deploy satellites and space probes to detect incoming ships. Critical Success results in the discovery of an ancient artifact or relic in the system.
2) Establish Communications - Technicians build a comm system for both internal communications for the community and to make contact with ships in orbit. Critical Success results in an interstellar comm system.
3) Emergency Shielding - Shield Distribution Officers establish strategically located shield projectors to defend key installations on the colony in case of attack. Critical Success results in a full planetary shield system.
4) Emergency Command Center - Armory Officers establish an armed redoubt from which the world's defenses can be controlled. Critical Success results in the creation of civilian defense bunkers capable of housing the colony's population in an emergency.
5) Defensive Weaponry - Energy Weapons Officers entrench weaponry around the colony to defend against invasions. Critical Success results in the creation of an orbital defense platform in geosynchronous orbit of the colony.
6) Fighter Base - Conn Officers establish an operations and maintenance field for armed shuttlecraft. Critical Success results in the establishment of a shipyard capable of fighter construction.
Eng Assignments
1) Fresh Water Supply - Diagnostic Engineers evaluate what is needed to insure fresh water for the colony's use and install it. Critical success results in local weather control equipment being installed.
2) Power Supply - Warp Core Engineers install large scale power generation equipment for the colony. Critical Success results in the creation of an orbital solar power station.
3) Pollution Control and Mitigation - Hazard Systems Officers install equipment that removes contaminants from air, soil, and water. Critical Success results in the creation of a recycling system for the colony.
4) Industrial Mining - Explosives Experts develop promising sites for obtaining the raw materials needed for the colony to grow. Critical Success results in the development of an asteroid mining station.
5) Urban Planning - Quartermasters develop a plan for growth of the colony to insure that all necessary goods and services can continually be provided to all colonists as the colony grows and develops. Critical Success results in the establishment of a rapid transit system.
6) Environmental Infrastructure - Systems Engineers analyze environmental risks and create dams and levees to prevent floods, reservoirs to mitigate drought, and storm shelters for the colonists to use in case of tornadoes. Of course, each world has unique requirements, so fencing may be appropriate to keep local animals out of the colony in one place, while atmospheric shielding may be needed to prevent scouring by sandstorms in another. Critical Success results in the establishment of a disaster relief system.
Sci Assignments
1) Biological Impact Study - Biologists assess the local flora and fauna for their compatibility with the colony; not only can the presence of a colony impact the local biosphere, but the local biosphere can impact the colony! Critical Success results in the establishment of biological symbiosis between the colony and the native biosphere.
2) Geological Survey - Geologists determine the geological history of the world to determine where raw materials can be found, where geologically unstable locations make colonization dangerous, and to discover the extent of the mineral wealth of the colony world. Critical Success results in the discovery of a rare natural resource.
3) Health Clinic - Doctors establish a public health system for the colony. Critical Success results in the formation of a communicable disease control system for the colony.
4) Pharmacology Industry - Biochemists examine the available raw materials on the world to determine what can be used in the production of medicines. Critical Success results in the development of a medical research center.
5) Agronomy Research - Botanists evaluate local plants for use of the colony in everything from food and clothing to construction materials. Critical Success results in the development of an agricultural academy.
6) Data Banks - Development Lab Scientists create a storage and retrieval system for collecting data and records as the colony grows, both as an historical record and as an educational tool. Critical Success results in the installation of a colonial computer network.
Generic Assignments
1) Interstellar Trade - Traders design a landing location accessible to the colony's transport system and evaluate which goods can be exported to trade for goods not available on the colony world. Critical Success results in the creation of a Starport.
2) Diplomacy - Diplomats establish and maintain relationships with the homeworld, the cultures on nearby planets, and the rare newly discovered or arrived peoples of the region. Critical Success results in the establishment of an Embassy.
3) Education - Advisors create a plan for the regular education of the colonists. Critical Success results in the establishment of a University.
4) Culinary Arts - Chefs create a healthy and palatable diet based on indigenous sources of vegetables and meats. Critical Success results in a new cuisine that becomes popular on an interstellar scale.
5) Entertainment - Entertainers establish traditional modes of entertainment for the colony, and experiment with new entertainments to provide relief from the daily workload of a colonist. Critical success results in the formation of a performing arts academy.
6) Work Release - Prisoners provide the muscle to perform menial jobs which are required to establish a colony as a part of their reintroduction to society. Critical Success results in the establishment of a rehabilitation center.
I have been trying to create this in Foundry for some time, but I am prevented from doing so by the complete lack of any mechanism which can stand in for Duty Officer Assignments, and the complete lack of a mechanism allowing a player to succeed or fail a task. I can make a click this, click this story, but the result will always be the same in the end: the player will always succeed or always fail any given task. For example, if I have an NPC on the map by a farm and he complains about the irrigation, your character can examine the irrigation system. In the current Foundry, I can either set it up so he can fix the pump, or set it up so he fails to fix the pump, but I cannot implement a random chance for either result. The Duty Officer system as it exists is capable of doing this, (as can be seen in the Disarming Diplomats chapter of the Cardassian Struggles - Second Wave mission,) but the tools to do so have not been installed in foundry.
TLDR: Yes, fun missions that do not involve combat, but which are replayable, can be created, and should be.
A solar power satellite must be brought on line to achieve a clean energy source for a world. The orbital power accumulation station must be aligned with the receiving and distribution station on the ground. To accomplish this a player on the satellite must coordinate his activities with a player on the ground station.
The mechanics:
* Synchronize Frequencies - Both players have a sine wave they must align to match the other player's. Similar to the Radiation Scan, (the old mineral trace minigame,) in which the pattern attempts to drift as the players keep it on target. Both players must match the target wavelength for a number of seconds simultaneously.
* Turn It On - Each player must activate several systems within a limited time. Failsafes will prevent activation of a system if its counterpart on the other station is not also activated within a very limited window, (seconds, not minutes.)
Communication between players would be key, and the Voice asset of the game would be one very useful method of doing this.