a lazy way to explain why our DS9 is getting a visual upgrade while skipping the whole "you need several months to retrofit and upgrade an space station".
Or they just ignore the amount of time it would take like when ESD got trashed, and was up and running pretty quickly after that.
It's currently 2410. We're at minimum 91 years behind the point where the Sphere Builders are repelled, and possibly 190. That's around one-to-two centuries of advances we're lacking.
1) Its one century STO = 25 century, Enterprise-J time = 26th century, that around 90 years not 190 which would make it the 27th century.
2) Considering the Sphere Builders needed a lot of time to prepare for their invasion (the 26th century was apparently when the Spheres had produced space they could survive in and that was with them doing it for 1000 years), and they fact that its only been a few decades since their accident in universe they are probably not that much more advanced either.
3) Plus again they can't even survive in regular space for long so its not like they could even invade with out something like the Delphic Expanse in its finished form which they wouldn't have yet (hence why despite having time travel tech they don't send an invasion fleet back before the federation can beat them).
Because where we failed with the timeship, they succeeded.
It's unlikely the Terrans needed the temporal weapon. The entire gambit revolving around said ship is a delaying tactic. It was spelled out in Butterfly that while the Federation isn't a match for the Iconians, they are constantly advancing while the Iconians are, technologically, rather stagnant. Essentially delaying Iconian contact until a future point where we can kick their butts.
Thing is... if the Builders come along and hand the Terrans 26th century technology they don't have to delay anything because that "future point" very likely becomes now for them since they have weapons and defenses from around one-to-two hundred years in the future. They can use that tech to dominate their locals (which they did according to the blog) and increase the size of their Empire, outfit it all with Uberguns and just... blow the Iconians away.
1) Its one century STO = 25 century, Enterprise-J time = 26th century, that around 90 years not 190 which would make it the 27th century.
Um... you know how a century works, right? A century is one hundred years long.
It is currently, in game, 2410. We are at the very beginning of the 25th century, ten years into it (exactly 1/10th).
The Battle of Procyon V (when the Builders are pushed back) happens at some point in time in the 26th Century which is one hundred years long and not one hundred years in the future.
Which means the Battle of Procyon V happens anywhere between January 1, 2501 and December 31, 2600. That means 91 to 190 years in the future (since the 26th century is 91 years from 2410, and lasts up to 190 years from 2410).
2) Considering the Sphere Builders needed a lot of time to prepare for their invasion (the 26th century was apparently when the Spheres had produced space they could survive in and that was with them doing it for 1000 years), and they fact that its only been a few decades since their accident in universe they are probably not that much more advanced either.
Uh... who says it's been decades for the Builders? You're thinking linearly in a situation involving time travel and a species that has been removed from our dimension and placed into one from where they're lashing out. They were giving the Xindi 26th Century weapons (dated by a 31st century Mr. Daniels) in the 22nd Century, then proceeded to have a backup plan in the start of the 21st Century (specifically 2004).
The upcoming events in STO will likely occur after the Enterprise incidents since otherwise STO can't use them as well narratively since, for the Builders, they wouldn't have happened yet.
3) Plus again they can't even survive in regular space for long so its not like they could even invade with out something like the Delphic Expanse in its finished form which they wouldn't have yet (hence why despite having time travel tech they don't send an invasion fleet back before the federation can beat them).
They do play with cat's-paws however (see: Xindi, and now Mirror Terrans). And of course using the Terrans it's entirely possible they can affect a change on the galaxy to make it habitable because deus ex machina works like that. The chances of us not fighting the enemy we just created? Almost nil. STO likes direct confrontation because pew pew, also DPSing intangible projections from the future isn't fun because they don't explode.
Just because the MU had more success with the Ionians doesn't mean they'll have the same success with us. They may have had major a tech upgrade, but we probabely know their tactics and line of thinking a lot better than the Iconians did. Also, I think their technology would be more compatible to the Federation's in our time line. One mess up by them is all we need, and all the tech they are using will fall right into our hands. It works both ways. I'm thinking this is how we win the Iconian war.
Nice job, MU. You did something good for a change. Thanks.
Also, wasn't Leeta a rebel in that universe? She could have switched over, or taken over, the new Terran Empire. However, I'm not too sure who she plans on attacking.
Nice job, MU. You did something good for a change. Thanks.
Except that the technology came from the Sphere Builders. And we made the Sphere Builders in Butterfly. So it was actually us (well, Nog and the Krenim), and the MU would just be a delivery system for technology... so if we do steal advanced MU (read: Builder) technology (and we will, because lockboxes supersede both the Prime Directive and the Temporal Prime Directive) it will have been because the Alliance epicly ****ed up with the Temporal Weapon. Sort of one of those "Blessing in Disguise" type deals... you know, unless you're a Tuterian, they just got screwed over, but luckily we don't have to care because in STO the Alliance is composed entirely of sociopaths.
Let's not forget one thing: it's written by an evil overlord. Maybe the Mirror!Iconians were benevolent and the whole "we slayed the demons and won the war" could be a revisionism for propaganda to give the empire more rightfulness, while the Empire just made a remake of "In a Mirror Darkly" where the Iconian Conclave showed up offering friendship and tech only to be tantalus-fielded by the TRIBBLE on the other side of the "negociation" table.
Just because the MU had more success with the Ionians doesn't mean they'll have the same success with us. They may have had major a tech upgrade, but we probabely know their tactics and line of thinking a lot better than the Iconians did. Also, I think their technology would be more compatible to the Federation's in our time line. One mess up by them is all we need, and all the tech they are using will fall right into our hands. It works both ways. I'm thinking this is how we win the Iconian war.
Nice job, MU. You did something good for a change. Thanks.
Also, wasn't Leeta a rebel in that universe? She could have switched over, or taken over, the new Terran Empire. However, I'm not too sure who she plans on attacking.
I wonder if maybe Leeta got her new tech the same way Empress Sato did?
IE steal it from the future in the prime universe.
Lets be honest...just like questerius asked...how is the terran empire going to beat the iconians when they can't even beat us...and we're getting spanked by the iconians?
To be fair, we have no idea what mirror Iconians are like. They're probably quite fluffy and peaceful and posed no threat at all.
TotW #20 is very intriguing, though. Why the special interest in Romulans, indeed?
I wonder if maybe Leeta got her new tech the same way Empress Sato did?
IE steal it from the future in the prime universe.
Don't you mean let someone else steal it from the future of the prime universe then manipulate others into murdering those who possess said tech until it falls into her hands?
I wonder if maybe Leeta got her new tech the same way Empress Sato did?
IE steal it from the future in the prime universe.
Don't you mean let someone else steal it from the future of the prime universe then manipulate others into murdering those who possess said tech until it falls into her hands?
Lets be honest...just like questerius asked...how is the terran empire going to beat the iconians when they can't even beat us...and we're getting spanked by the iconians?
To be fair, we have no idea what mirror Iconians are like. They're probably quite fluffy and peaceful and posed no threat at all.
TotW #20 is very intriguing, though. Why the special interest in Romulans, indeed?
Fluffy Iconians, they're tribbles in the other timeline? Epoch perhaps?
A this time i would be dumbfounded if the MU universe managed to repel anything resembling a serious invasion from the Borg or Dominion, let alone Iconians.
As for the focus on Romulans, perhaps it has to do with that sword which was found.
Was the great vulcan/romulan weapon smith perhaps "the one" and was he killed by http://en.memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Stone_of_Gol
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
So they going to redo the Mirror Universe NPCs? Oh boy.
I just wonder how this is going to play out given they are redoing the Cardassian Arc. Are they planning in seperating the current Cardassian Arc into two seperate arcs (Cardassian and Mirror Universe)? Then make the Mirror Universe more threatening to go along with that change? Man, I thought they weren't annoying enough all ready...
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them." -Thomas Marrone
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
I am... disappointed with the lack of KCA Counterpoint seems to indicate is now the case. Boringly Empire-only now on the Mirror side, it seems. The apparent change to red is also boring. Red is overused as an 'evil' colour, yellow is better in that regard.
1) Its one century STO = 25 century, Enterprise-J time = 26th century, that around 90 years not 190 which would make it the 27th century.
Um... you know how a century works, right? A century is one hundred years long.
It is currently, in game, 2410. We are at the very beginning of the 25th century, ten years into it (exactly 1/10th).
The Battle of Procyon V (when the Builders are pushed back) happens at some point in time in the 26th Century which is one hundred years long and not one hundred years in the future.
Which means the Battle of Procyon V happens anywhere between January 1, 2501 and December 31, 2600. That means 91 to 190 years in the future (since the 26th century is 91 years from 2410, and lasts up to 190 years from 2410).
Except season 11 is supposed to be in 2411 not 2410 so again 190 years comes out to 2501 aka the 27th century.
2) Considering the Sphere Builders needed a lot of time to prepare for their invasion (the 26th century was apparently when the Spheres had produced space they could survive in and that was with them doing it for 1000 years), and they fact that its only been a few decades since their accident in universe they are probably not that much more advanced either.
Uh... who says it's been decades for the Builders? You're thinking linearly in a situation involving time travel and a species that has been removed from our dimension and placed into one from where they're lashing out. They were giving the Xindi 26th Century weapons (dated by a 31st century Mr. Daniels) in the 22nd Century, then proceeded to have a backup plan in the start of the 21st Century (specifically 2004).
And yet they needed the Spheres to be working the region over for over 1000 years to get space they could survive in which was when they were finally able to directly invade.
Not to mention that despite their time travel tech they didn't actually you know attack the federation when they were less advanced or destroy humanity themselves which implies they were limited in what they could do.
The upcoming events in STO will likely occur after the Enterprise incidents since otherwise STO can't use them as well narratively since, for the Builders, they wouldn't have happened yet.
Which means they can't really do too much seeing as their plans were again set back about 100 years.
3) Plus again they can't even survive in regular space for long so its not like they could even invade with out something like the Delphic Expanse in its finished form which they wouldn't have yet (hence why despite having time travel tech they don't send an invasion fleet back before the federation can beat them).
They do play with cat's-paws however (see: Xindi, and now Mirror Terrans). And of course using the Terrans it's entirely possible they can affect a change on the galaxy to make it habitable because deus ex machina works like that.
Again it was established ON SCREEN that despite their 26th century tech they needed the Spheres to make space they could survive in and it took them over 1000 years (thats how old the Spheres were in the 22nd century) to do so.
O' Brien is dead by the sounds of it, we may have given Leeta the empire without even realising it when we destroyed his flagship
"The meaning of victory is not to merely defeat your enemy but to destroy him, to completely eradicate him from living memory, to leave no remnant of his endeavours, to crush utterly his achievement and remove from all record his every trace of existence. From that defeat no enemy can ever recover. That is the meaning of victory."
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
Lets be honest...just like questerius asked...how is the terran empire going to beat the iconians when they can't even beat us...and we're getting spanked by the iconians?
But the Sphere Builders aren't more technologically advanced than the federation, the whole reason they went with the time travel retgone scheme was that the federation kicked their asses when the Sphere Builders tried to invade.
Not true as it stands.
The Sphere Builders were repelled and forced back into their dimension in the 26th Century (sometime between 2501 and 2600) by a larger Federation with more member worlds which we don't have yet, using advanced technology we don't have yet.
It's currently 2410. We're at minimum 91 years behind the point where the Sphere Builders are repelled, and possibly 190. That's around one-to-two centuries of advances we're lacking.
Keep in mind, Shon is flying the Enterprise 1701-F, the Builders were repelled by the 1701-J... that means there still has to be an Enterprise-G, an Enterprise-H, and an Enterprise-I before we even reach the J. Assuming that Starfleet is refitting between major advances instead of just tossing out new Enterprises for ****s and giggles that means the galaxy is still several major technological leaps behind where it was when it faced the Builders.
I am... disappointed with the lack of KCA Counterpoint seems to indicate is now the case. Boringly Empire-only now on the Mirror side, it seems. The apparent change to red is also boring. Red is overused as an 'evil' colour, yellow is better in that regard.
...but what if there's another group coming who uses yellow hues to identify itself? Won't that cause confusion if the mirror universe is still sporting the same paint job?
CARDASSIAN FACTION CONFIRMED :P
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
O' Brien is dead by the sounds of it, we may have given Leeta the empire without even realising it when we destroyed his flagship
I suspect the mirror storyline we're familiar with will be cut out of the Cardassian arc altogether with S11, and Leeta's invasion will take its place, only set after the Iconian War.
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them." -Thomas Marrone
Comments
Or they just ignore the amount of time it would take like when ESD got trashed, and was up and running pretty quickly after that.
1) Its one century STO = 25 century, Enterprise-J time = 26th century, that around 90 years not 190 which would make it the 27th century.
2) Considering the Sphere Builders needed a lot of time to prepare for their invasion (the 26th century was apparently when the Spheres had produced space they could survive in and that was with them doing it for 1000 years), and they fact that its only been a few decades since their accident in universe they are probably not that much more advanced either.
3) Plus again they can't even survive in regular space for long so its not like they could even invade with out something like the Delphic Expanse in its finished form which they wouldn't have yet (hence why despite having time travel tech they don't send an invasion fleet back before the federation can beat them).
It's unlikely the Terrans needed the temporal weapon. The entire gambit revolving around said ship is a delaying tactic. It was spelled out in Butterfly that while the Federation isn't a match for the Iconians, they are constantly advancing while the Iconians are, technologically, rather stagnant. Essentially delaying Iconian contact until a future point where we can kick their butts.
Thing is... if the Builders come along and hand the Terrans 26th century technology they don't have to delay anything because that "future point" very likely becomes now for them since they have weapons and defenses from around one-to-two hundred years in the future. They can use that tech to dominate their locals (which they did according to the blog) and increase the size of their Empire, outfit it all with Uberguns and just... blow the Iconians away.
In a mirror darkly!
Member Access Denied Armada!
My forum single-issue of rage: Make the Proton Experimental Weapon go for subsystem targetting!
Um... you know how a century works, right? A century is one hundred years long.
It is currently, in game, 2410. We are at the very beginning of the 25th century, ten years into it (exactly 1/10th).
The Battle of Procyon V (when the Builders are pushed back) happens at some point in time in the 26th Century which is one hundred years long and not one hundred years in the future.
Which means the Battle of Procyon V happens anywhere between January 1, 2501 and December 31, 2600. That means 91 to 190 years in the future (since the 26th century is 91 years from 2410, and lasts up to 190 years from 2410).
Uh... who says it's been decades for the Builders? You're thinking linearly in a situation involving time travel and a species that has been removed from our dimension and placed into one from where they're lashing out. They were giving the Xindi 26th Century weapons (dated by a 31st century Mr. Daniels) in the 22nd Century, then proceeded to have a backup plan in the start of the 21st Century (specifically 2004).
The upcoming events in STO will likely occur after the Enterprise incidents since otherwise STO can't use them as well narratively since, for the Builders, they wouldn't have happened yet.
They do play with cat's-paws however (see: Xindi, and now Mirror Terrans). And of course using the Terrans it's entirely possible they can affect a change on the galaxy to make it habitable because deus ex machina works like that. The chances of us not fighting the enemy we just created? Almost nil. STO likes direct confrontation because pew pew, also DPSing intangible projections from the future isn't fun because they don't explode.
Nice job, MU. You did something good for a change. Thanks.
Also, wasn't Leeta a rebel in that universe? She could have switched over, or taken over, the new Terran Empire. However, I'm not too sure who she plans on attacking.
Except that the technology came from the Sphere Builders. And we made the Sphere Builders in Butterfly. So it was actually us (well, Nog and the Krenim), and the MU would just be a delivery system for technology... so if we do steal advanced MU (read: Builder) technology (and we will, because lockboxes supersede both the Prime Directive and the Temporal Prime Directive) it will have been because the Alliance epicly ****ed up with the Temporal Weapon. Sort of one of those "Blessing in Disguise" type deals... you know, unless you're a Tuterian, they just got screwed over, but luckily we don't have to care because in STO the Alliance is composed entirely of sociopaths.
IE steal it from the future in the prime universe.
My character Tsin'xing
TotW #20 is very intriguing, though. Why the special interest in Romulans, indeed?
My character Tsin'xing
Kosst Amojan, that's how she defeated the Iconians, she read from the Kosst Amojan and got help from the Pahwraiths.
Just as Kia Wynne spilled blood upon the Kosst Amojan and the text was revealed to her too.
It could be the sphere builders or the space TRIBBLE, but I'm betting she got weapons from the none linear Pahwraiths.
Fluffy Iconians, they're tribbles in the other timeline? Epoch perhaps?
A this time i would be dumbfounded if the MU universe managed to repel anything resembling a serious invasion from the Borg or Dominion, let alone Iconians.
As for the focus on Romulans, perhaps it has to do with that sword which was found.
Was the great vulcan/romulan weapon smith perhaps "the one" and was he killed by http://en.memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Stone_of_Gol
I just wonder how this is going to play out given they are redoing the Cardassian Arc. Are they planning in seperating the current Cardassian Arc into two seperate arcs (Cardassian and Mirror Universe)? Then make the Mirror Universe more threatening to go along with that change? Man, I thought they weren't annoying enough all ready...
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them."
-Thomas Marrone
certainly plausible, since leeta IS bajoran
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
My character Tsin'xing
Except season 11 is supposed to be in 2411 not 2410 so again 190 years comes out to 2501 aka the 27th century.
And yet they needed the Spheres to be working the region over for over 1000 years to get space they could survive in which was when they were finally able to directly invade.
Not to mention that despite their time travel tech they didn't actually you know attack the federation when they were less advanced or destroy humanity themselves which implies they were limited in what they could do.
Which means they can't really do too much seeing as their plans were again set back about 100 years.
Again it was established ON SCREEN that despite their 26th century tech they needed the Spheres to make space they could survive in and it took them over 1000 years (thats how old the Spheres were in the 22nd century) to do so.
I know it's hard to admit you are wrong, but dude... now you are just arguing about a technicality.
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
Helpful Tools: Dictionary.com - Logical fallacies - Random generator - Word generator - Color tool - Extra Credits - List of common English language errors - New T6 Big booty tutorial
...but what if there's another group coming who uses yellow hues to identify itself? Won't that cause confusion if the mirror universe is still sporting the same paint job?
CARDASSIAN FACTION CONFIRMED :P
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
I suspect the mirror storyline we're familiar with will be cut out of the Cardassian arc altogether with S11, and Leeta's invasion will take its place, only set after the Iconian War.
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them."
-Thomas Marrone