For all the people complaining about the DSD, I actually find the DSD with ALL Dyson consoles and Protonic poloran weapons can actually hold it's own to other ships. Is it the best, no. But if built science heavy with Tactical as a secondary, and done properly, It can be a great ship.
Plus I love the look of the DSD. It is uniquely designed, and beautiful.
get rid of the switching... just make it have 2 commander options for tac & sci from the get go...
4 - Cmd tac
4 - Cmd sci
3 - Lt Cmd eng
2 - Lt sci/intel
1 - Ensign seat uni
Comes to 14 boff abilities
with a 4/4/2 console breakdown
Also make the weapon load out 4 fore with 2 aft weapon slots... upgraded the fixed cannons in the fore to UR Quad Heavy Proton Cannons that it's dmg is based off of Aux power. With no real way to boost dmg from tactical consoles...
I mean a single hangar bay that is locked to only be able to carry Dyson Swarmers (all versions of them.)
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
3. Proton builds, as mentioned earlier, aren't the best option for ANY ship besides maybe a shuttle (with the EPW) because this game doesn't actually have the components (ie. normal consoles, more than 2 weapons) to support a proton build that's on par with any other damage type (even tricobalt). The consoles and locked cannon are there on the DSD but that doesn't obligate you (as with any c-store ship feature) to base your setup entirely on them. The cannon in particular is just a forward firepower buff that's scaled (by the unavailability of good proton consoles and its native damage) so that it doesn't exceed what you can do with an open weapons slot but still offers more straight weapon damage than a 6-slot sci ship. Treating it like a conventional DHC is not the way to go.
You keep missing the point. A Proton build was what this ship was made for; dismissing it, because you think it's no good, is the tail wagging the dog. The entire 3-piece ship console set, plus the 2 pieces of Protonic Arsenal (Experimental Proton Weapon + Proton Particle Stabilizer), was build around doing Proton damage: if you fit the ship accordingly, and it can't deliver, then the ship was simply designed inadequately.
Naturally, one is free to fit the ship like a regular Science ship, and do what you did: just treat the built-in cannon as a wee bit of surplus DPS that just happens to be there. And doing so is, indeed, the best way to go. But, again, the purpose for which the DSD was made, aka Cryptic's brief venture into Proton dmg, was simply fail. Add Protonic Vulnerability Locators to the Spire, and we're back in business again.
3. Proton builds, as mentioned earlier, aren't the best option for ANY ship besides maybe a shuttle (with the EPW) because this game doesn't actually have the components (ie. normal consoles, more than 2 weapons) to support a proton build that's on par with any other damage type (even tricobalt). The consoles and locked cannon are there on the DSD but that doesn't obligate you (as with any c-store ship feature) to base your setup entirely on them. The cannon in particular is just a forward firepower buff that's scaled (by the unavailability of good proton consoles and its native damage) so that it doesn't exceed what you can do with an open weapons slot but still offers more straight weapon damage than a 6-slot sci ship. Treating it like a conventional DHC is not the way to go.
You keep missing the point. A Proton build was what this ship was made for; dismissing it, because you think it's no good, is the tail wagging the dog. The entire 3-piece ship console set, plus the 2 pieces of Protonic Arsenal (Experimental Proton Weapon + Proton Particle Stabilizer), was build around doing Proton damage: if you fit the ship accordingly, and it can't deliver, then the ship was simply designed inadequately.
Naturally, one is free to fit the ship like a regular Science ship, and do what you did: just treat the built-in cannon as a wee bit of surplus DPS that just happens to be there. And doing so is, indeed, the best way to go. But, again, the purpose for which the DSD was made, aka Cryptic's brief venture into Proton dmg, was simply fail. Add Protonic Vulnerability Locators to the Spire, and we're back in business again.
Honestly, I agree with most of what you said. People now, only want to build for DPS, DPS, DPS. The DSD was not purely made for DPS. As a science vessel that crowd controls, and heals others, it is one of the best. I may be one of the few that actually looks for gear that no one wants and tries to make it work. Another good example of that is my Fed Engi flying around in a NOT UPGRADED APU battlecruiser using ONLY Vaadwuar turrets and the new transphasic torp. Is it a DPS monster, absolutely not.
But it has massive survivability. I was in a PVP match and it took 4 Raptors, 3 BOPs, and a Voquv with BOP pets to finally finish me off after 10 minutes of fighting. So, sometimes thinking outside the box using gear you don't think would work, can sometimes surprise you.
My point is, either use whats given to you, or look for a new angle on how the ship is SUPPOSED to work.
get rid of the switching... just make it have 2 commander options for tac & sci from the get go...
4 - Cmd tac
4 - Cmd sci
3 - Lt Cmd eng
2 - Lt sci/intel
1 - Ensign seat uni
Comes to 14 boff abilities
with a 4/4/2 console breakdown
For all the people complaining about the DSD, I actually find the DSD with ALL Dyson consoles and Protonic poloran weapons can actually hold it's own to other ships. Is it the best, no. But if built science heavy with Tactical as a secondary, and done properly, It can be a great ship.
Plus I love the look of the DSD. It is uniquely designed, and beautiful.
3. Proton builds, as mentioned earlier, aren't the best option for ANY ship besides maybe a shuttle (with the EPW) because this game doesn't actually have the components (ie. normal consoles, more than 2 weapons) to support a proton build that's on par with any other damage type (even tricobalt). The consoles and locked cannon are there on the DSD but that doesn't obligate you (as with any c-store ship feature) to base your setup entirely on them. The cannon in particular is just a forward firepower buff that's scaled (by the unavailability of good proton consoles and its native damage) so that it doesn't exceed what you can do with an open weapons slot but still offers more straight weapon damage than a 6-slot sci ship. Treating it like a conventional DHC is not the way to go.
You keep missing the point. A Proton build was what this ship was made for; dismissing it, because you think it's no good, is the tail wagging the dog. The entire 3-piece ship console set, plus the 2 pieces of Protonic Arsenal (Experimental Proton Weapon + Proton Particle Stabilizer), was build around doing Proton damage: if you fit the ship accordingly, and it can't deliver, then the ship was simply designed inadequately.
Naturally, one is free to fit the ship like a regular Science ship, and do what you did: just treat the built-in cannon as a wee bit of surplus DPS that just happens to be there. And doing so is, indeed, the best way to go. But, again, the purpose for which the DSD was made, aka Cryptic's brief venture into Proton dmg, was simply fail. Add Protonic Vulnerability Locators to the Spire, and we're back in business again.
Honestly, I agree with most of what you said. People now, only want to build for DPS, DPS, DPS. The DSD was not purely made for DPS. As a science vessel that crowd controls, and heals others, it is one of the best. I may be one of the few that actually looks for gear that no one wants and tries to make it work. Another good example of that is my Fed Engi flying around in a NOT UPGRADED APU battlecruiser using ONLY Vaadwuar turrets and the new transphasic torp. Is it a DPS monster, absolutely not.
But it has massive survivability. I was in a PVP match and it took 4 Raptors, 3 BOPs, and a Voquv with BOP pets to finally finish me off after 10 minutes of fighting. So, sometimes thinking outside the box using gear you don't think would work, can sometimes surprise you.
My point is, either use whats given to you, or look for a new angle on how the ship is SUPPOSED to work.
I love the survivability of the thing. I never have an issue dying in this. Somehow (don't ask me how) my T6 battlecruiser dies faster...
Just group Antiproton and Proton together as a category buffed by consoles etc. and watch the Dyson become the most popular ship seen in star trek online history.
Just group Antiproton and Proton together as a category buffed by consoles etc. and watch the Dyson become the most popular ship seen in star trek online history.
Polaron would be good too... people would be able to use protonic polaran and buff both
Just group Antiproton and Proton together as a category buffed by consoles etc. and watch the Dyson become the most popular ship seen in star trek online history.
Man, they'd sell like hotcakes.
Fate - protects fools, small children, and ships named Enterprise Will Riker
Member Access Denied Armada!
My forum single-issue of rage: Make the Proton Experimental Weapon go for subsystem targetting!
I'd love to see a T6 upgrade for the DSD. Crazy as it may sound to the minmaxing PVP obsessors, I almost exclusively fly a Dyson Tac Destroyer on my KDF Tactical captain. It is, absolutely hands down, the most fun ship I fly. And for me, there's got to be room for plain old FUN in this discussion. I was thrilled to see the brand new Point Defense Protocols trait roll out recently! You bet your last bar of latinum I jumped on that to complement my completely-slated-here Proton build.
The ship definitely has some fantastic strengths, if you value them. If nothing else, it pulls down a 1st place in CCA almost every time you run it. The combination of solid, if not amazing, DPS and very impressive team/self heals are an easy win in CCA.
I still once in a while swap out to my Fleet QIF or KDF Tactical Pilot Raptor, but they're soulless beasts in execution compared to my Dyson Tac Destroyer. Enjoyment is completely subjective, and it's folly to dismiss someone else's pleasure because yours varies.
I'd love to see a T6 upgrade for the DSD. Crazy as it may sound to the minmaxing PVP obsessors, I almost exclusively fly a Dyson Tac Destroyer on my KDF Tactical captain. It is, absolutely hands down, the most fun ship I fly. And for me, there's got to be room for plain old FUN in this discussion. I was thrilled to see the brand new Point Defense Protocols trait roll out recently! You bet your last bar of latinum I jumped on that to complement my completely-slated-here Proton build.
The ship definitely has some fantastic strengths, if you value them. If nothing else, it pulls down a 1st place in CCA almost every time you run it. The combination of solid, if not amazing, DPS and very impressive team/self heals are an easy win in CCA.
I still once in a while swap out to my Fleet QIF or KDF Tactical Pilot Raptor, but they're soulless beasts in execution compared to my Dyson Tac Destroyer. Enjoyment is completely subjective, and it's folly to dismiss someone else's pleasure because yours varies.
Same here.. i love it... awesome survivability, very manouverable and does good damage
Oh, and for the OP, the only other wish list item not on your list that I'd love to see on a T6 DSD would be a Battle Cloak in place of the standard Cloak.
I hope they abandon those things and give Science Players true Science Ships that arent gimmicks.
I definitely agree that they need to give some Science Ship love to Romulan and KDF factions. I suppose there's an argument that KDF aren't terribly science focused, but Romulans should have better options at least. You're stuck with T5U Lobi ships as the best options for pure science. Oh, and of course the prohibitively priced Annorax, I suppose. I forgot that one. But am I the only person who finds a turn rate of 6 to be laughable on a Science Ship, when deflector abilities have a restricted arc?
I hope they abandon those things and give Science Players true Science Ships that arent gimmicks.
I definitely agree that they need to give some Science Ship love to Romulan and KDF factions. I suppose there's an argument that KDF aren't terribly science focused, but Romulans should have better options at least. You're stuck with T5U Lobi ships as the best options for pure science. Oh, and of course the prohibitively priced Annorax, I suppose. I forgot that one. But am I the only person who finds a turn rate of 6 to be laughable on a Science Ship, when deflector abilities have a restricted arc?
You are not the only.. besides it is too expensive for my tastes
I actually wouldn't mind seeing a T6 remake, but they're going to need to iron out all the problems with the current ones if they expect anyone to buy them:
1) Proton weapons need to be more than just a gimmick to make them attractive choices. They should scale their damage up based on whatever energy weapon damage bonus is the greatest. Example: Not that someone should, but if someone equips random consoles to get a 60% tetryon damage bonus and a 30% disruptor damage bonus, the 60% tetryon damage bonus should also be applied to any equipped proton weapons. As an added benefit of this, the dyson rep experimental proton weapon might see a bit more use than it currently does.
2) The ship's proton weapon needs to be unequippable and upgradable. It should be possible to make it "unique-equipped" and "only equippable on science destroyers" easily enough, I imagine. It'd also be nice if it could be used as either a front-facing narrow-arc weapon or a 210/360 broadsiding weapon, based on how the user outfits their ship. More arrays in the fore slots = 210 (or even 360) arc, more dual cannons, torpedoes, or dual beam banks = 90 arc. Make it an option, but one people will want to use rather than something people wish they could yank off and replace.
3) The toggle needs to be remembered, so those who want to use it as a tactical ship don't have to keep switching it on, or in some cases, having to wait for the cooldown to elapse before switching it on. Arguably, cruisers could use this kind of thing as well.
I actually wouldn't mind seeing a T6 remake, but they're going to need to iron out all the problems with the current ones if they expect anyone to buy them:
1) Proton weapons need to be more than just a gimmick to make them attractive choices. They should scale their damage up based on whatever energy weapon damage bonus is the greatest. Example: Not that someone should, but if someone equips random consoles to get a 60% tetryon damage bonus and a 30% disruptor damage bonus, the 60% tetryon damage bonus should also be applied to any equipped proton weapons. As an added benefit of this, the dyson rep experimental proton weapon might see a bit more use than it currently does.
2) The ship's proton weapon needs to be unequippable and upgradable. It should be possible to make it "unique-equipped" and "only equippable on science destroyers" easily enough, I imagine. It'd also be nice if it could be used as either a front-facing narrow-arc weapon or a 210/360 broadsiding weapon, based on how the user outfits their ship. More arrays in the fore slots = 210 (or even 360) arc, more dual cannons, torpedoes, or dual beam banks = 90 arc. Make it an option, but one people will want to use rather than something people wish they could yank off and replace.
3) The toggle needs to be remembered, so those who want to use it as a tactical ship don't have to keep switching it on, or in some cases, having to wait for the cooldown to elapse before switching it on. Arguably, cruisers could use this kind of thing as well.
1) I agree. However maybe getting an extra weapon slot in tac mode would good too... and the player can decide what he puts in there?
2) see 1, although it is a nice idea
3) true, although if they bring the cooldown down to 15 secs or so it would be less of a problem?
1) I agree. However maybe getting an extra weapon slot in tac mode would good too... and the player can decide what he puts in there?
I might've neglected to mention that, but yeah, one of the slots would only activate for tactical mode, but it'd have to be done in a way that makes it obvious to the player so they know which slot is the variable slot.
Anyway yeah, my idea is that whatever proton weapon comes with the DSD would be implemented in a way that people want to use it because it's awesome. With our current DSDs, its the opposite--people feel like they're being forced to use something that sucks in that slot.
1) I agree. However maybe getting an extra weapon slot in tac mode would good too... and the player can decide what he puts in there?
I might've neglected to mention that, but yeah, one of the slots would only activate for tactical mode, but it'd have to be done in a way that makes it obvious to the player so they know which slot is the variable slot.
Anyway yeah, my idea is that whatever proton weapon comes with the DSD would be implemented in a way that people want to use it because it's awesome. With our current DSDs, its the opposite--people feel like they're being forced to use something that sucks in that slot.
The problem with making Proton tactical consoles is that there are only two pure Proton weapons in the game so it would only benefit the proc for Protonic Polaron weapons.
There have always been six damage types so adding a seventh would just make things complicated. There is one very big reason why pure Proton weaponry will never happen... Proton damage cannot be resisted. Except by those Voth Rep consoles. That makes it way too powerful for its own good. The game was not designed to handle more than six basic damage types. That is why it can't happen.
well it CAN happen, but the devs would have to go dig in deep and do an absurd amount of work to make it happen w/o zomfg issues... which would break 9365269 other things that aren't broken right now
I still fly my Romulan DSD on a Sci and I like it. 30k Proton based damage build suits me just fine on a Sci. Imho, the Romulan DSD is among the best looking, if not the best looking ship in the game (at least since the faction-specific colors were released).
I am all for a T6 version. The ship has its problems, and could certainly need an upgrade. Proton damage is gimmicky, but I personally like the idea in general. Cryptic could build on it, maybe even with a fitting Starship trait to further boost Proton based damage.
Comments
Plus I love the look of the DSD. It is uniquely designed, and beautiful.
4 - Cmd tac
4 - Cmd sci
3 - Lt Cmd eng
2 - Lt sci/intel
1 - Ensign seat uni
Comes to 14 boff abilities
with a 4/4/2 console breakdown
I mean a single hangar bay that is locked to only be able to carry Dyson Swarmers (all versions of them.)
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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You keep missing the point. A Proton build was what this ship was made for; dismissing it, because you think it's no good, is the tail wagging the dog. The entire 3-piece ship console set, plus the 2 pieces of Protonic Arsenal (Experimental Proton Weapon + Proton Particle Stabilizer), was build around doing Proton damage: if you fit the ship accordingly, and it can't deliver, then the ship was simply designed inadequately.
Naturally, one is free to fit the ship like a regular Science ship, and do what you did: just treat the built-in cannon as a wee bit of surplus DPS that just happens to be there. And doing so is, indeed, the best way to go. But, again, the purpose for which the DSD was made, aka Cryptic's brief venture into Proton dmg, was simply fail. Add Protonic Vulnerability Locators to the Spire, and we're back in business again.
Honestly, I agree with most of what you said. People now, only want to build for DPS, DPS, DPS. The DSD was not purely made for DPS. As a science vessel that crowd controls, and heals others, it is one of the best. I may be one of the few that actually looks for gear that no one wants and tries to make it work. Another good example of that is my Fed Engi flying around in a NOT UPGRADED APU battlecruiser using ONLY Vaadwuar turrets and the new transphasic torp. Is it a DPS monster, absolutely not.
But it has massive survivability. I was in a PVP match and it took 4 Raptors, 3 BOPs, and a Voquv with BOP pets to finally finish me off after 10 minutes of fighting. So, sometimes thinking outside the box using gear you don't think would work, can sometimes surprise you.
My point is, either use whats given to you, or look for a new angle on how the ship is SUPPOSED to work.
Added it!
I think this would make it overpowered.
I am definitely with you there!
I love the survivability of the thing. I never have an issue dying in this. Somehow (don't ask me how) my T6 battlecruiser dies faster...
Polaron would be good too... people would be able to use protonic polaran and buff both
Man, they'd sell like hotcakes.
Member Access Denied Armada!
My forum single-issue of rage: Make the Proton Experimental Weapon go for subsystem targetting!
The ship definitely has some fantastic strengths, if you value them. If nothing else, it pulls down a 1st place in CCA almost every time you run it. The combination of solid, if not amazing, DPS and very impressive team/self heals are an easy win in CCA.
I still once in a while swap out to my Fleet QIF or KDF Tactical Pilot Raptor, but they're soulless beasts in execution compared to my Dyson Tac Destroyer. Enjoyment is completely subjective, and it's folly to dismiss someone else's pleasure because yours varies.
Same here.. i love it... awesome survivability, very manouverable and does good damage
You are not the only.. besides it is too expensive for my tastes
1) Proton weapons need to be more than just a gimmick to make them attractive choices. They should scale their damage up based on whatever energy weapon damage bonus is the greatest. Example: Not that someone should, but if someone equips random consoles to get a 60% tetryon damage bonus and a 30% disruptor damage bonus, the 60% tetryon damage bonus should also be applied to any equipped proton weapons. As an added benefit of this, the dyson rep experimental proton weapon might see a bit more use than it currently does.
2) The ship's proton weapon needs to be unequippable and upgradable. It should be possible to make it "unique-equipped" and "only equippable on science destroyers" easily enough, I imagine. It'd also be nice if it could be used as either a front-facing narrow-arc weapon or a 210/360 broadsiding weapon, based on how the user outfits their ship. More arrays in the fore slots = 210 (or even 360) arc, more dual cannons, torpedoes, or dual beam banks = 90 arc. Make it an option, but one people will want to use rather than something people wish they could yank off and replace.
3) The toggle needs to be remembered, so those who want to use it as a tactical ship don't have to keep switching it on, or in some cases, having to wait for the cooldown to elapse before switching it on. Arguably, cruisers could use this kind of thing as well.
1) I agree. However maybe getting an extra weapon slot in tac mode would good too... and the player can decide what he puts in there?
2) see 1, although it is a nice idea
3) true, although if they bring the cooldown down to 15 secs or so it would be less of a problem?
Anyway yeah, my idea is that whatever proton weapon comes with the DSD would be implemented in a way that people want to use it because it's awesome. With our current DSDs, its the opposite--people feel like they're being forced to use something that sucks in that slot.
added it
And what about mastery traits? Maybe shield/hull heal on use of science abilities?
Its Mk 'Infinite.' So, it doesn't really need Upgrading per se.
What they *should* do with it, however, is enable BFAW for it, like on the EPW.
There have always been six damage types so adding a seventh would just make things complicated. There is one very big reason why pure Proton weaponry will never happen... Proton damage cannot be resisted. Except by those Voth Rep consoles. That makes it way too powerful for its own good. The game was not designed to handle more than six basic damage types. That is why it can't happen.
I am all for a T6 version. The ship has its problems, and could certainly need an upgrade. Proton damage is gimmicky, but I personally like the idea in general. Cryptic could build on it, maybe even with a fitting Starship trait to further boost Proton based damage.
Take a look at the "Point Defense Protocols". Starship trait that does proton damage.