All that is good but the mission surely will be bugged. That is a fact. That is not even a discussion if it will be or not, just how badly and if it will be finishable without emergency patching.
First thing: Bad idea to remove the Iconians. Could lead the galaxy into a much worse place.
Second: Think on what to remove. Better to be prepared then ruin something important.
Third: Holodeck simulations aren't 100% accurate. Look at that TNG episode where Worf helped delivered a baby and I'm sure there are other instances of that.
What if we really did use the Krenim Superweapon and every part of the Iconian War was erased from existance except Qo'noS, and now we're just experiencing the Groundhog Day or Edge of Tomorrow effect?
Then all the Tales of the War stories would have just been from timelines that never existed?
Would you wanna sit by a table with these guys to talk?
The answer, and question aswell, who wouldnt?
No offence, but its kinda sad that the poster you quoted, and you aswell, kinda show signs of brainwashing...
First, no1 knows the entire story. Picard even hinted that the iconians may had not been the bad ones, but, as in Star Trek univers and our real word aswell, victors rewrite history and twist facts. You cant make a judgement until you know all the facts. Not just one side, biased one for sure. No1 really knows what happened, how many of them were killed in the attack on their world, but probably many. That would blind-rage anybody. Even M'Tara's reply to the prezerver that "She cant" when asked to stop, could mean a oath/promise to the fallen bretheren that they would be avenged. Well... how much of that we saw/see in our world too? Sometimes you reap what you sow. If no mercy was showed to them back then, now they find themselves in the situation not to show it either.
Back to your question, there is much to learn from such a civilization that achived so much, even immortality (that does not mean indestructibility, mind you). And them been superior, at least technologicly, then most of the races in the galaxy, its a fact.
And for kdf strike in the council, dunno about that, it did seemed a bit necesary as a bi..tch slap to those arrogants lol
Regarding the episode, this I must say turn out way more complicated then I would/ve expected. Why not just try to blow up the sun where the herald sphere arrived? There was a good chance that the omega "bateries" wouldve been depleted after the jump. Its also canon, since the changelings tried to blow up a united fleet around DS9 aswell when they wanted to blow up Bajor's Sun. Something like this I wouldve guess with Sela been at the Dominion, she returining with a "sun bomb" as help from those. And this plot was used in Star-Gate SG-1 to blow up a fleet of ships too.
So, as suspected, Cryptic will fall on a lazy 'deus ex machina' solution to save us all from the terrible writing of this entire arc. A very fitting end, given the overall quality of the 'Iconian War' storyline, although I consider solving the war and finishing a plot that has driven the game for 5 years by simply "erasing" the Iconians out of existence as a new low - even for Cryptic and even for the terribad writing of this entire Iconian arc. It's just so lazy, unimaginative and boring that I don't know what else to say....
Seriously, I really hate to be that TRIBBLE, but this Iconian arc is the worst writing and storytelling I've ever encountered in my life.
On the other hand, at least we'll be finished with this stupid premise that everything in the universe happens because the Iconians are behind it and we'll off to exploring......the MU it seems ......yeeeah.... .....my most hated part of Star Trek, that I don't even consider a part of Star Trek...jumped those episodes when they'd pop-up...
*sobs mathematically*
Yeah, morale is at an all time low over here.... I hope by the beard of Kahless that I'm wrong, though...
Well, we can save Qo'noS, Qo'noS, and Qo'noS. If you want something for a change of pace, you can always go to Qo'noS as well, and Qo'noS also has players trying to fight for saving it. As the war progressed, we were able to journey to Qo'noS for the Iconian War and stage another attack, although the Iconians counter-attacked and we were forced to defend Qo'noS as a result. This war has been pretty brutal, but in order to survive, we'll further need to attack the Iconians at Qo'noS, Qo'noS, Qo'noS, and we'll also need to deploy more ships to Qo'noS. Maybe before Season 11, we'll be able to fight for Qo'noS as well, but I guess only time will tell!
so was expecting the next FE around this time, here it is. im reserving judgement for the moment, but if it messes up the server like the previous one did a few weeks back.. i dunno. in any event i dont know what i will be doing in a few days from now anyways. so yes, im expecting issues and no reaction. will see what happens. but if its arehash from voyager, i probably wont be too amused by it.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
The Krenim weapon scares the hell out of me, once they are through with the Iconians who will they target next?
As it is due to horrific losses in lives and ships, how could we resist another invasion by a more powerful species?
"The meaning of victory is not to merely defeat your enemy but to destroy him, to completely eradicate him from living memory, to leave no remnant of his endeavours, to crush utterly his achievement and remove from all record his every trace of existence. From that defeat no enemy can ever recover. That is the meaning of victory."
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
Surely the Iconians must have noticed the existence of this facility by now? The entire allied fleet was located there, and they were patrolling this system before we made the entire planet reappear again.
We're building the only weapon that has a chance of defeating the Iconians there, and instead of targeting this facility with everything they've got, they're attacking freighters, billions of people and mythical planets that are now said to be in ruins but nowhere to be found on the map?
I'm pretty sure they did notice what was happening in the Kyana system. That was the point of our assault on their Dyson's Sphere. The entire battle was like the Assault on the Black Gate in Return of the King. We knew it was going to be a no win scenario but our assault drew the Iconian's attention away from Kyana and back towards our assault, just as Sauron's gaze was pulled away from Frodo at Mt. Doom. This should have given the engineers in Kyana time to finish the weapon.
Sounds like this is where the alliance suddenly realizes the true horror of the weapon they have constructed and why using it is such a bad idea.
I'm hopeful.
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
Surely the Iconians must have noticed the existence of this facility by now? The entire allied fleet was located there, and they were patrolling this system before we made the entire planet reappear again.
We're building the only weapon that has a chance of defeating the Iconians there, and instead of targeting this facility with everything they've got, they're attacking freighters, billions of people and mythical planets that are now said to be in ruins but nowhere to be found on the map?
I'm pretty sure they did notice what was happening in the Kyana system. That was the point of our assault on their Dyson's Sphere. The entire battle was like the Assault on the Black Gate in Return of the King. We knew it was going to be a no win scenario but our assault drew the Iconian's attention away from Kyana and back towards our assault, just as Sauron's gaze was pulled away from Frodo at Mt. Doom. This should have given the engineers in Kyana time to finish the weapon.
Well if Sauron wasn't able to multitask thats one thing, but the Iconians don't even have to, since there is more than one of them. They should easily be able to fight at the sphere AND watch after the System the whole Alliance Fleet is suddenly so interessted in.
I think it's the Romulans that have to go. The last Tales of War showed #1 Their obsession with restoring Romulas, which means they have learned or gained nothing since, and #2 the fact they they can't restore it, because THEY are the cause of its destruction and the Iconian invasion. Remove them and there is no war, along with certain tech and long held tensions too. Knock them out right after the Sundering - maybe that's why the ruins are on New Romulas.
I think it's the Romulans that have to go. The last Tales of War showed #1 Their obsession with restoring Romulas, which means they have learned or gained nothing since, and #2 the fact they they can't restore it, because THEY are the cause of its destruction and the Iconian invasion. Remove them and there is no war, along with certain tech and long held tensions too. Knock them out right after the Sundering - maybe that's why the ruins are on New Romulas.
Correction: SOME Romulans.
this is probably the dumbest idea I've seen yet regarding this topic...
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
Dammit, where are the temporal police? We losing the war, than we cheating with time, olala deux ex machina, end of the story, final kiss... I think the writers got out of hand and now the plethora of " epic " battles sick everybody , so the writers are looking for a way to quickly end . Furthermore, when I look at the steam charts , the number of players has decreased . I would really like to New Dawn or better yet a third expansion as soon as possible.
Picard thought the reputation of the Iconians might have been overblown by their contemporaries. He was always a bit of an idealist.
Available evidence indicates that Jean-Luc was wrong.
Heh, I thought he was wrong when I watched that episode the first time back when I was 15... No one would go to the amount of effort required to bomb a planet to ruin like that without a reason. Sure you can hypothesize that it wasn't a GOOD reason, but seriously? It takes BIG reason to do something like THAT.
Would it not be interesting if the voth co-inhabited earth after the erasure of whatever is going to be erased..
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
Then I learned their weapon doesn’t just alter the timeline, it erases things from ever having existed!
"erases things from ever having existed" doesn't seem to be right. It looks as if someone was changing the sentence around and didn't finish his work.
"It erases things from existence" or "it stops things from ever having existed"..
a plot that has driven the game for 5 years by simply "erasing" the Iconians out of existence as a new low
Do you have a crystal ball that's shown you this is what's going to happen? Or perhaps you're psychic. Seriously, how could cryptic erase the iconians? The entire game would have to be redone to erase the loads of content in it that has the iconians. Just think for a moment about everything that would have to go poof. And then of course there's season 11 which will be about rebuilding from the war. If the iconians were erased, there wouldn't have been a war and nothing to rebuild from. It's far more likely a single event will be changed like M'Tara's death that could be used to create some sort of peace. Given there hasn't been much content put in the game to reflect an ongoing war, this would make more sense.
Do you have a crystal ball that's shown you this is what's going to happen? Or perhaps you're psychic. Seriously, how could cryptic erase the iconians? The entire game would have to be redone to erase the loads of content in it that has the iconians. Just think for a moment about everything that would have to go poof. And then of course there's season 11 which will be about rebuilding from the war. If the iconians were erased, there wouldn't have been a war and nothing to rebuild from. It's far more likely a single event will be changed like M'Tara's death that could be used to create some sort of peace. Given there hasn't been much content put in the game to reflect an ongoing war, this would make more sense.
I'm no psychic, but unlike some around here I know how to pay attention and read what is written:
I hope by the beard of Kahless that I'm wrong, though...
It was just an assumption extrapolated from what I consider to be mediocre, and in certain situations downright awful,
writing/storytelling of the Iconian war arc and a few other stories throughout the game. I've been around here long enough to know better than to expect that Cryptic couldn't possibly make a bigger mess out of something. heh Around here lowered expectations can mean less disapointment and a bigger chance of being pleasantly suprised.
That's why I said that I hope I'm wrong - about everything I typed before that, including the MU involvement (ok, I don't hope, I actually chant in trance against that MU one), because I can't possibly know how they choose to end it yet and I hope what I said will be just a bad/wrong assumption while the resolution in-game would be something better although the entire war has fallen dry by now.
Well if Sauron wasn't able to multitask thats one thing, but the Iconians don't even have to, since there is more than one of them. They should easily be able to fight at the sphere AND watch after the System the whole Alliance Fleet is suddenly so interessted in.
I'd say it's a little more complicated than that. This is a galaxy wide invasion so I doubt every single Iconian is watching the same target and they're most likely spread out across the galaxy. However if their command center is attacked it would make sense they're called away to defend it. We also know that not all the Iconians appear to be contributing to the War effort because L'Miren doesn't appear to have any forces on the battle field. At least not until M'Tara was killed. It was said during the mission that Iconians called out there reserves in order to handle our attack, so we appear to have distracted them enough that they needed everyone they could get.
Then I learned their weapon doesn’t just alter the timeline, it erases things from ever having existed!
"erases things from ever having existed" doesn't seem to be right. It looks as if someone was changing the sentence around and didn't finish his work.
"It erases things from existence" or "it stops things from ever having existed"..
Nah, not the Iconians themselves. This mysterious _Other_ who put them on that path.
Except that there is no evidence (hard or even circumstantial) to suggest the Other did anything other to "Save us from oblivion".
All we know about the Iconians is what they are now, we know zero about what they were like 200,000 years ago. Someone mentioned that the Iconians had to have provoked the attackers who bombd their world but here's an alternative.
200,000 years ago, a fleet comes out of nowhere, and bombs Iconia to ash and rubble. A vast alliance of the races the Iconians oppressed, come to take their revenge.
Federation ships, KDF, Romulans, Cardassians...
The Galaxy makes it's own enemy. **This** would be an epic way to handle time travel and end the whole war. The player then has to save the (decent) Iconians from the genocide, and transports them maybe into the future? Of course they now no longer remember him/her, and all they can call their savior "The Other".
The circle that needs to be broken is a time-loop on this magnitude. Whether Cryptic does something like this? Who knows.
I haven’t felt like this since before the end of the Dominion war. I- I need to start from the beginning.
We found the Krenim in the Delta Quadrant. They had temporal technology unlike anything
I’d ever dreamed of.
I was standing in front of the entire Iconian council and they never knew, never even suspected, we could overhear them. It gave me hope! Technology which could stand against them! Finally!
Then I learned their weapon doesn’t just alter the timeline, it erases things from ever having existed! The Krenim don’t seem to care, but… it’s terrifying to a lot of people, with good reason.
We were losing. Badly. Even knowing what it could do, the Alliance agreed to build the Krenim warship as a weapon of last resort. I agreed. I don’t regret that I helped. If I was there then I could be a voice of reason before we started to rip apart time itself. I told myself we’d never actually have to use it. We tried one last conventional attack, and I can’t help but wonder if that’s what “sealed our fate” as Jake would say.
The strike against the Iconians was more successful than we’d ever expected. Their leader, M’tara, is dead. She had personally killed the Klingon High Council. Her fleet has taken dozens of worlds, thousands of starships, billions of lives. It was supposed to be something good. Something to save more lives, to force them to negotiate.
All we did was kill their leader. Their sister. Now there is no hope for negotiation. No holding back.
The weapon is complete. We’ve begun running simulations. I only hope we can make the right choices.
End log
Lets dissect this story and put it to real game time. Losing badly? After only a few FEs we really hadn't lost a lot. Actually we gained ground. 1 Iconian dead, and 1 armless. Wasn't for an story teller oaf we would had 2 dead. Blew up their Solena facility so they can come into our space. Yeah they killed a handful of high ranking officials. More will come up to replace them. Taken dozens of worlds? Which ones? None on the map has been affected with no invasion forces. Thousands of starships gone? My ship and crew has only saw minimal action. And came out each fight. Where is the other ships? Better yet where is this invasion force? Billions of lives? Once again where is the invasion force?
Sounds like to me they want to play around with time for the fun of it. As I keep on killing Vaadwuar since they sent me to Kobali. To do the same mission over and over and over. Since its all part of dealing with the Iconian Fiasco. This just makes me want to skip the rest of it. And play my alts until Season 11 hits. So that way I don't have do the Iconian arc.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
Comments
First thing: Bad idea to remove the Iconians. Could lead the galaxy into a much worse place.
Second: Think on what to remove. Better to be prepared then ruin something important.
Third: Holodeck simulations aren't 100% accurate. Look at that TNG episode where Worf helped delivered a baby and I'm sure there are other instances of that.
Then all the Tales of the War stories would have just been from timelines that never existed?
The answer, and question aswell, who wouldnt?
No offence, but its kinda sad that the poster you quoted, and you aswell, kinda show signs of brainwashing...
First, no1 knows the entire story. Picard even hinted that the iconians may had not been the bad ones, but, as in Star Trek univers and our real word aswell, victors rewrite history and twist facts. You cant make a judgement until you know all the facts. Not just one side, biased one for sure. No1 really knows what happened, how many of them were killed in the attack on their world, but probably many. That would blind-rage anybody. Even M'Tara's reply to the prezerver that "She cant" when asked to stop, could mean a oath/promise to the fallen bretheren that they would be avenged. Well... how much of that we saw/see in our world too? Sometimes you reap what you sow. If no mercy was showed to them back then, now they find themselves in the situation not to show it either.
Back to your question, there is much to learn from such a civilization that achived so much, even immortality (that does not mean indestructibility, mind you). And them been superior, at least technologicly, then most of the races in the galaxy, its a fact.
And for kdf strike in the council, dunno about that, it did seemed a bit necesary as a bi..tch slap to those arrogants lol
Regarding the episode, this I must say turn out way more complicated then I would/ve expected. Why not just try to blow up the sun where the herald sphere arrived? There was a good chance that the omega "bateries" wouldve been depleted after the jump. Its also canon, since the changelings tried to blow up a united fleet around DS9 aswell when they wanted to blow up Bajor's Sun. Something like this I wouldve guess with Sela been at the Dominion, she returining with a "sun bomb" as help from those. And this plot was used in Star-Gate SG-1 to blow up a fleet of ships too.
Available evidence indicates that Jean-Luc was wrong.
Seriously, I really hate to be that TRIBBLE, but this Iconian arc is the worst writing and storytelling I've ever encountered in my life.
On the other hand, at least we'll be finished with this stupid premise that everything in the universe happens because the Iconians are behind it and we'll off to exploring......the MU it seems
Yeah, morale is at an all time low over here....
I think you forgot about Qo'noS as well!
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
As it is due to horrific losses in lives and ships, how could we resist another invasion by a more powerful species?
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
The Iconians won't know what hit them.
Primary ship: U.S.S. Lacus Clyne, Dyson Science Destroyer/U.S.S. Fausticorn, Multi-Mission Reconnaissance Explorer
Secondary ship: U.S.S. Rainbow Dash, Odyssey Tactical Cruiser/I.S.S. Princess Cadance, Mirror Assault Cruiser
Tertiary ship: I.S.S. Freedom Gundam, Mirror Deep Space Science Vessel
My YouTube Channel
I'm pretty sure they did notice what was happening in the Kyana system. That was the point of our assault on their Dyson's Sphere. The entire battle was like the Assault on the Black Gate in Return of the King. We knew it was going to be a no win scenario but our assault drew the Iconian's attention away from Kyana and back towards our assault, just as Sauron's gaze was pulled away from Frodo at Mt. Doom. This should have given the engineers in Kyana time to finish the weapon.
Shelana is still my main's first officer and is on every one of her away teams.
I'm hopeful.
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
Well if Sauron wasn't able to multitask thats one thing, but the Iconians don't even have to, since there is more than one of them. They should easily be able to fight at the sphere AND watch after the System the whole Alliance Fleet is suddenly so interessted in.
"The higher the fewer."
Correction: SOME Romulans.
this is probably the dumbest idea I've seen yet regarding this topic...
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
What was really happening behind the scenes at the Krenim space lab:
View My gallery at http://captricosakara.deviantart.com
My character Tsin'xing
Float like a butterfly, sting like an embassy plasma generating console.
Oh wait.......not anymore LoL.
Grammar and time travel don't blend easily.
All of this talk about butterflies has put this in my head again!
"No matter where you go...there you are."
I'm no psychic, but unlike some around here I know how to pay attention and read what is written:
It was just an assumption extrapolated from what I consider to be mediocre, and in certain situations downright awful,
writing/storytelling of the Iconian war arc and a few other stories throughout the game. I've been around here long enough to know better than to expect that Cryptic couldn't possibly make a bigger mess out of something. heh
That's why I said that I hope I'm wrong - about everything I typed before that, including the MU involvement (ok, I don't hope, I actually chant in trance against that MU one
I'd say it's a little more complicated than that. This is a galaxy wide invasion so I doubt every single Iconian is watching the same target and they're most likely spread out across the galaxy. However if their command center is attacked it would make sense they're called away to defend it. We also know that not all the Iconians appear to be contributing to the War effort because L'Miren doesn't appear to have any forces on the battle field. At least not until M'Tara was killed. It was said during the mission that Iconians called out there reserves in order to handle our attack, so we appear to have distracted them enough that they needed everyone they could get.
My character Tsin'xing
Except that there is no evidence (hard or even circumstantial) to suggest the Other did anything other to "Save us from oblivion".
All we know about the Iconians is what they are now, we know zero about what they were like 200,000 years ago. Someone mentioned that the Iconians had to have provoked the attackers who bombd their world but here's an alternative.
200,000 years ago, a fleet comes out of nowhere, and bombs Iconia to ash and rubble. A vast alliance of the races the Iconians oppressed, come to take their revenge.
Federation ships, KDF, Romulans, Cardassians...
The Galaxy makes it's own enemy. **This** would be an epic way to handle time travel and end the whole war. The player then has to save the (decent) Iconians from the genocide, and transports them maybe into the future? Of course they now no longer remember him/her, and all they can call their savior "The Other".
The circle that needs to be broken is a time-loop on this magnitude. Whether Cryptic does something like this? Who knows.
I’m afraid.
I haven’t felt like this since before the end of the Dominion war. I- I need to start from the beginning.
We found the Krenim in the Delta Quadrant. They had temporal technology unlike anything
I’d ever dreamed of.
I was standing in front of the entire Iconian council and they never knew, never even suspected, we could overhear them. It gave me hope! Technology which could stand against them! Finally!
Then I learned their weapon doesn’t just alter the timeline, it erases things from ever having existed! The Krenim don’t seem to care, but… it’s terrifying to a lot of people, with good reason.
We were losing. Badly. Even knowing what it could do, the Alliance agreed to build the Krenim warship as a weapon of last resort. I agreed. I don’t regret that I helped. If I was there then I could be a voice of reason before we started to rip apart time itself. I told myself we’d never actually have to use it. We tried one last conventional attack, and I can’t help but wonder if that’s what “sealed our fate” as Jake would say.
The strike against the Iconians was more successful than we’d ever expected. Their leader, M’tara, is dead. She had personally killed the Klingon High Council. Her fleet has taken dozens of worlds, thousands of starships, billions of lives. It was supposed to be something good. Something to save more lives, to force them to negotiate.
All we did was kill their leader. Their sister. Now there is no hope for negotiation. No holding back.
The weapon is complete. We’ve begun running simulations. I only hope we can make the right choices.
End log
Lets dissect this story and put it to real game time. Losing badly? After only a few FEs we really hadn't lost a lot. Actually we gained ground. 1 Iconian dead, and 1 armless. Wasn't for an story teller oaf we would had 2 dead. Blew up their Solena facility so they can come into our space. Yeah they killed a handful of high ranking officials. More will come up to replace them. Taken dozens of worlds? Which ones? None on the map has been affected with no invasion forces. Thousands of starships gone? My ship and crew has only saw minimal action. And came out each fight. Where is the other ships? Better yet where is this invasion force? Billions of lives? Once again where is the invasion force?
Sounds like to me they want to play around with time for the fun of it. As I keep on killing Vaadwuar since they sent me to Kobali. To do the same mission over and over and over. Since its all part of dealing with the Iconian Fiasco. This just makes me want to skip the rest of it. And play my alts until Season 11 hits. So that way I don't have do the Iconian arc.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.