I am aware of that, my question was more of "is Cryptic doing more to connect the two for some reason" as in "are they hinting we will come into contact with them in the game"
Generally, I've noticed a slight pattern with a casually-mentioned species/location/person in a mission being featured in a more important way later in the game.
For example:
Miral Paris playing a role during the Klingon-Fed war arc? She's back for the Iconian War.
The Krenim mentioned as a casualty in the beginning of Delta Rising? Back for Season 10.5.
A Xindi delegate out of nowhere? Xindi lockboxes.
Out of all pets one could get from the "Year of Hell" lockbox, we get beagles, which are more associated to ST Enterprise? We have Clauda later (better explanation in the next spoiler).
Clauda looking like a Sphere Builder, whose species is mentioned to have worked on Solanae work/spheres? Mention of a species related to time-travel already featured in a ST series at the Vegas Convention.
Well, I agree that the writers seems lazy, just see how they managed this episode.
Let's put aside the simulation part and go to the borg: First they stated that something happened 20 years ago in the delta quadrant that have enhanced the borgs in this new timeline.
ok... in which way what the Annorax have done could have any influence in the delta quadrant in the first place ? It doesn't make sense.
Second when they have erased the borg gate, it affects again the delta quadrant by erasing the Tuterians because this time they didn't succeed to adapt?
Doesn't make sense again because it's the borg who are affected and probably negatively, so in which magical way it could have affected the Tuterians?
Third, Romulus. We have erased both the mean that destroyed Romulus and the gate that allow the borg to assimilate it, so why it is destroyed again?
It's clear that the writers had no idea about logic concerning any changes on the timeline. Yes it's unpredictable, but it also works in a logical way.
Last, we have not really any clear explanations about any changes of the timeline following Butterfly, just hints from Kagran:
- Kagran has changed on his view about the Krenim weapon:
Before the episode it's their last hope in his mind and he clearly pushed for using it.
After the episode he thinks that our action was too reckless and his speech make me think that he was doubtful about this weapon from the start.
- The situation about the Alliance:
Before: The Annorax ship is their last card to defeat the Iconians, no others possibilities.
After: Kragan said that it's time to think on others alternatives.
It's hypothetical but i think that the Annorax did change something that make the situation of the Alliance in a better state: There's others alternatives possible to defeat the Iconians meaning that the Alliance has other cards in their hand aside of the Krenim weapon.
The goal is reached in a way: They wanted to make their situation better against the Iconians and they succeeded, but not the way they though.
I am aware of that, my question was more of "is Cryptic doing more to connect the two for some reason" as in "are they hinting we will come into contact with them in the game"
Generally, I've noticed a slight pattern with a casually-mentioned species/location/person in a mission being featured in a more important way later in the game.
For example:
Miral Paris playing a role during the Klingon-Fed war arc? She's back for the Iconian War.
The Krenim mentioned as a casualty in the beginning of Delta Rising? Back for Season 10.5.
A Xindi delegate out of nowhere? Xindi lockboxes.
Out of all pets one could get from the "Year of Hell" lockbox, we get beagles, which are more associated to ST Enterprise? We have Clauda later (better explanation in the next spoiler).
Clauda looking like a Sphere Builder, whose species is mentioned to have worked on Solanae work/spheres? Mention of a species related to time-travel already featured in a ST series at the Vegas Convention.
Yeah, but it might be a while between the hint getting dropped and it's execution. The Fak'lhri story has always felt like it should have a giant sign that said "to be continued" painted on it. The Fek'lhri attack, and you fight them off, but you don't find out where they came from, merely that they are related to the Hur'Q. Which means they're still out there, waiting for round 2....
Oh and the slideshow about STLV mentioned that there will be a new to STO enemy in season 11. I think we just saw a preview of who.
Well, I agree that the writers seems lazy, just see how they managed this episode.
Let's put aside the simulation part and go to the borg: First they stated that something happened 20 years ago in the delta quadrant that have enhanced the borgs in this new timeline.
ok... in which way what the Annorax have done could have any influence in the delta quadrant in the first place ? It doesn't make sense.
First Off: Butterfly Effect. Small changes can have big effects that you cannot predict. That is the fundamental idea here. If we create a direct, obvious connection between this, then it's not a butterfly effect.
But to give two examples:
If the Iconia episode doesn't happen, that means there is one extra Galaxy Class ship in Starfleet.
1)
This extra ship will have its own adventures, maybe they trigger the Borg doing something different this time. Say, the Yamato finds the first Hirogen Communication Satellite (instead of the Voyager many years later), and this prompts the Hirogen to dispatch a few ships to deal with the insolent people mucking around with their technology. But this means these ships are not there to defend against a Borg attack, and this means one extra Borg Probe survives a battle against the Hirogen. And this probe is then send to investigate a planet that the Borg didn't yet get around to investigate in the original timeline, and there they find a powerful artifact.
2)
Maybe this actually leads to the Enterprise being diverted to a different course, Q deciding to instigate the Borg incident at a different point in time or not at all - but if there isn't a Borg ship reporting about the Enterprise at the right time, or reporting the specifics of the Enterprise incident, the collective doesn't divert a ship to deal with it. On its original course, however, this ship would eventually stumble upon a powerful artifact that boosts the Borg technological capabilities.
And a 3rd:
That asteroid that was deleted from existence? Well, it actually broke in two pieces millenia ago, and if it is never created, the original asteroid must have less mass and flies a different route throug space. But that means it does crash on a planet, causing a major mass extinction event. Out of the ashes, eventually a new species evolves that develops advanced technology - that is now found by the Borg.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Season 11 seems to be finishing up the Tholian plotline...
I could be wrong, but IIRC, the Tholians, story-wise, had veeeery little "screen time". They hardly have a plotline to begin, let alone finish.
There's the Nukara ground battlezone, which is just tossed to us after a level up like: "Hey there's a planet you might like to take a look at if you want some target practice. You know, just saying". Then they were there to give the players something to shoot at on New Romulus, Azure Nebula Rescue, Crystalline Entity, they had the Temporal Ambassador episode aaaand that's about it.
Even the Borg and Breen story arcs are longer than that.
"Ad astra audacter eamus in alis fidelium."
-
"To boldly go to the stars on the wings of the faithful."
Is it me or did this episode create the basis that leads us to see how the Sphere Builders came to be in Star Trek: Enterprise?
Most people are thinking that actually.
The Sphere Builders, being multidimensional beings, would eventually see, through looking at all the timelines, that the Federation is responsible for them being stuck in that other dimensional real due to their timeline manipulation in this episode.
Which is explains why they try to have us killed in Enterprise.
Our new long term enemy then... the Iconian's gift that keeps on giving!
I can already imagine the faces of the researchers when they examine that shielded core.
"This would certainly explain the original Enterprise's encounter with the "Sphere Builders" in the Delphic Expanse. We need to contact the Xindi. They might know more. So, instead of eliminating or delaying the threat posed by a hostile faction, we created a new one instead... or rather, ensured that the one in our past and future would exist," A'Dranna says, then nervously tugs at her uniform jacket and continues, "Making so many enemies makes me thirsty. Now that we've met our daily quota, who wants some raktajino? I'm buying!"
Post edited by kelettes on
"Ad astra audacter eamus in alis fidelium."
-
"To boldly go to the stars on the wings of the faithful."
Wanted: Somebody to go back in time with me. This is not a joke. You'll get loot after we get back. Must bring your own weapons. Safety not guaranteed. I have only done this once too many times.
The episode wasn't as badly' written as those preceeding it. It was okay for STO, albeit very constructed. For isntance, the whole Krenim weapon thing lasted three episodes to justify the name dropping and lockbox ship - that's something I am used to already. But the whole "holodeck simulations" to determine the effects make no sense - those simulations do not offer anything the computer couldn't have showed us by itself. They claim someone has to "interact" with the simulation, but all we do is talk to the characters - we don't do anything that would require us to run a holodeck simulation at all. At least this is lampshaded by the episode itself as the holodeck simulations
turn out to be completely useless
.
I see however a lot of wasted potential for detail work.
Most Star Trek fans love details - why not use the AGT uniforms for the simulated alternate timeline Starfleet personnel? Speaking of uniforms, why do NPCs always wear the 'Excursion' Starfleet unifrom regardless of where they are? Isn't it supposed to be a ground uniform? Why is the timeline rectified by removing the transwarp gate? The gate would have been constructed after the Borg get there (it cannot go there by itself, can it?). Why do the Borg keep the Romulan computers in their original configuration more than 20 years after the assimilation? And the Krenim being confronted with the removal of his wife caused by the incursion, probably to illustrate how big of a mistake it was, delivered the most indifferent (non) emotional reaction I have seen.
All in all the episode was okay in principle but the execution was lacking.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Our new long term enemy then... the Iconian's gift that keeps on giving!
I doubt they will be very long term enemies. Maybe a season or two at most. Unlike The Iconians, who are behind everyone from the Klingons to the Vaadwaur, the Sphere Builders have already tired and failed to manipulate the Xindi, and besides them, they could maybe ally with/manipulate the Mirror Universe and Tholians, but not much else. Cryptic has already gone through basically every other hostile faction in the game already, sans the Dominion.
I can already imagine the faces of the researchers when they examine that shielded core.
"This would certainly explain the original Enterprise's encounter with the "Sphere Builders" in the Delphic Expanse. We need to contact the Xindi. They might know more. So, instead of eliminating or delaying the threat posed by a hostile faction, we created a new one instead... or rather, ensured that the one in our past and future would exist," A'Dranna says, then nervously tugs at her uniform jacket and continues, "Making so many enemies makes me thirsty. Now that we've met our daily quota, who wants some raktajino? I'm buying!"
I doubt they would make the connection immediately. The Sphere builders never revealed their true name during their encounters with Archer, and so few saw their actual appearance that I doubt the physical connection would be made until later, as no one would be thinking about it.
I have to wonder just how hostile the Dominion actually IS in 2410. They seem much nicer than in DS9...
The best way to deal with the Iconians, is to not deal with them at all. - or something along those lines.
I don't think even the Dominion is capable of opposing them. The caution of the Iconians probably comes from the fact that the Founders, through their Vorta and Jem'Hadar, have a very effective way to project power, and maintain strict control over worlds within their borders, and that their forces are extremely well organized and tightly controlled. Iconian agents barely have room to breathe in their space, making incursions into the Dominion "high risk operations" - especially for a faction that wanted to stay in the shadows until the very last moment. Plus that tight control might allow the Dominion to keep crucial intelligence from leaking.
This potential lack of knowledge is what I think gives the Iconians pause. Also, from the look of things, they've been preparing for a blitzkrieg all along, not for protracted, open wars. - though they seem to have the hardware and manpower for even that.
"Ad astra audacter eamus in alis fidelium."
-
"To boldly go to the stars on the wings of the faithful."
Another thought:
In House Pegh, a console contains this line:
"We must complete our campaign to take this galaxy as quickly as possible."
This suggests (to me anyway) that they have precious little time to spare. Considering that the IGN (Iconian Gateway Network, yes ) extends all the way over to the Andromeda galaxy, it is possible that they've encountered something that even they can't put up a fight against.
Maybe we're looking at a scenario similar to the one which was portrayed in Stargate Atlantis. The 'Lanteans migrated from the Milky Way to Pegasus, then they encountered the Wraith, and went back running to the Milky Way where they eventually ascended.
Where I'm trying to draw the parallel is this:
Maybe the Iconians are fighting a losing war back in the Andromeda galaxy and they've been working on preparing their return to the Milky Way. Familiar territory, out of the enemy's reach. With the sacrifice of a few, they can "stage their extinction" while the rest of the populace escapes. It's all a question of preparing the galaxy for their arrival. Subjugating it so they can rebuild what they've lost in Andromeda. And while their empire is rebuilt, they can find refuge in all those giant spheres.
^Going from that: we haven't even seen a single true Iconian ship yet. Only the toys they've given to their servitors and the Heralds. Even now, we don't know the true extent of their power and when we think of what could be in the Andromeda galaxy.... O.O *shivers*
One big conjecture. But it's fun brainstorming over it! ^^
"Ad astra audacter eamus in alis fidelium."
-
"To boldly go to the stars on the wings of the faithful."
Another thought:
In House Pegh, a console contains this line:
"We must complete our campaign to take this galaxy as quickly as possible."
This suggests (to me anyway) that they have precious little time to spare. Considering that the IGN (Iconian Gateway Network, yes ) extends all the way over to the Andromeda galaxy, it is possible that they've encountered something that even they can't put up a fight against.
Maybe we're looking at a scenario similar to the one which was portrayed in Stargate Atlantis. The 'Lanteans migrated from the Milky Way to Pegasus, then they encountered the Wraith, and went back running to the Milky Way where they eventually ascended.
Where I'm trying to draw the parallel is this:
Maybe the Iconians are fighting a losing war back in the Andromeda galaxy and they've been working on preparing their return to the Milky Way. Familiar territory, out of the enemy's reach. With the sacrifice of a few, they can "stage their extinction" while the rest of the populace escapes. It's all a question of preparing the galaxy for their arrival. Subjugating it so they can rebuild what they've lost in Andromeda. And while their empire is rebuilt, they can find refuge in all those giant spheres.
^Going from that: we haven't even seen a single true Iconian ship yet. Only the toys they've given to their servitors and the Heralds. Even now, we don't know the true extent of their power and when we think of what could be in the Andromeda galaxy.... O.O *shivers*
One big conjecture. But it's fun brainstorming over it! ^^
The Andromeda galaxy is a dying galaxy, at least according to the Kelvans
"Humanity hadn't been expanding. They were running!" - slot "Iconians" in the place of "Humans" in this instance.
Then again @rekurzion could be right. After forced into exile, the Iconians may have tried to start over in Andromeda, but ultimately realized that it's either this galaxy, or nothing.
But I still can't shake this line.
"We must complete our campaign to take this galaxy as quickly as possible."
Even if there is no war in Andromeda, and that the Iconians only wanted a speedy conquest to avoid a galaxy-wide alliance, looks like their attention is divided between our war with them, and something else - whatever that is.
Post edited by kelettes on
"Ad astra audacter eamus in alis fidelium."
-
"To boldly go to the stars on the wings of the faithful."
"Centuries ago, the Kelvans became aware of dangerously rising radiation levels in Andromeda, a development expected to make that galaxy uninhabitable for their species within 10,000 years (or 10 millennia)." -Memory Alpha
To the Kelvans.
And like you said the Iconian Empire fell 200,000 years ago. Remember in Uneasy Allies Sela leads us to a "staging sphere" in the Andromeda galaxy, which is filled with a Herald armada, ready to jump back to Iconia. There may be more to that galaxy than just a cloud of radiation.
Maybe that's why the Iconians are on "borrowed time". They could be fleeing from that radiation because it eventually becomes lethal to them too. It could have also been a temporary "flare" which will eventually die off before it could become harmful to all life over there. Who knows?
"Ad astra audacter eamus in alis fidelium."
-
"To boldly go to the stars on the wings of the faithful."
We still don't know what The One or The Other whatever it was called was yet. Something powerful enough to save the Iconians may be able to destroy them too.
Clauda was very interesting but I think the visual similarities to you know who may have been coincidental and they just needed to create a Delta Quadrant race Voyager had never encountered so they weren't bound story-wise.
I'm looking forward to all the possibilities in New Dawn. Though since I've been recording STO missions, and I've nearly finished Delta Quadrant I'd be a bit grumpy about missions getting revamped haha.
Back on topic though I really loved Butterfly, best Iconian episode since Uneasy Allies and I'd say the most entertaining overall though more could have been done to make the simulated realities more distinct like different uniforms and that.
"Centuries ago, the Kelvans became aware of dangerously rising radiation levels in Andromeda, a development expected to make that galaxy uninhabitable for their species within 10,000 years (or 10 millennia)." -Memory Alpha
To the Kelvans.
And like you said the Iconian Empire fell 200,000 years ago. Remember in Uneasy Allies Sela leads us to a "staging sphere" in the Andromeda galaxy, which is filled with a Herald armada, ready to jump back to Iconia. There may be more to that galaxy than just a cloud of radiation.
Maybe that's why the Iconians are on "borrowed time". They could be fleeing from that radiation because it eventually becomes lethal to them too. It could have also been a temporary "flare" which will eventually die off before it could become harmful to all life over there. Who knows?
My hypothesis is that the Iconians are the cause of the radiation and they were using it to wipe out the Kelvans. It's probably something that doesn't penetrate Dyson shells.
"Centuries ago, the Kelvans became aware of dangerously rising radiation levels in Andromeda, a development expected to make that galaxy uninhabitable for their species within 10,000 years (or 10 millennia)." -Memory Alpha
To the Kelvans.
And like you said the Iconian Empire fell 200,000 years ago. Remember in Uneasy Allies Sela leads us to a "staging sphere" in the Andromeda galaxy, which is filled with a Herald armada, ready to jump back to Iconia. There may be more to that galaxy than just a cloud of radiation.
Maybe that's why the Iconians are on "borrowed time". They could be fleeing from that radiation because it eventually becomes lethal to them too. It could have also been a temporary "flare" which will eventually die off before it could become harmful to all life over there. Who knows?
My hypothesis is that the Iconians are the cause of the radiation and they were using it to wipe out the Kelvans. It's probably something that doesn't penetrate Dyson shells.
I'm not sure, From what we have seen of the Kelvans, I suspect they would be a match for the Iconians. It's actually quite possible the Iconians and Kelvans may not actually have much contact considering the kinds of planets trueform Kelvans inhabit.
If the Iconians are leery about not rushing to attack the Dominion, they should be very concerned about fighting the Kelvans. Then again, M'Tara's "duty" seemed t be ruling the Milky Way. Kelvans might be allied to the Iconians (Not a pleasant thought at all). Or the Kelvans might turn out to be the Other, though I still think it is going to be the Player that takes that role.
I've really enjoyed this episode. STO is full of action and battles if you like them, from the queues to some foundry episodes or the random events you can fight your way lika a berserker if you want, but Star trek best stories never involved battles as the main action.
This episode brings questions that doesn't really need to be answered by the writers, it's more fun to let the player think about the implications of the actions taken that get an answer that closes the story and doesn't explain at all the subyacent ideas raised. The alliance has now a god like power and is still defenseless against the force of the destiny, that is how the epic stories begin. Nobody can defeat the ciclops, and Nobody did.
Of course is always a taste matter, but I Think that the better Sci-fi pieces are always the ones that brings questions and defy our vision of the world rather than the ones that merely tells closed epic stories and gives all the answers like a religious book. In fact I really hate those episodes that close abruptly and in a pedestrian way challenging ideas, I recall the second apparition of Moriarty, it was highly illogical that him went back to the old and plain self after the gift of the live that Data gave him unintentionally. That was a story that didn't needed to be closed, meking the character an archetype again was a realy dull idea that killed a fascinating question about life that complemented Data's struggles for being alive. In some way I felt like somebody was very angry with the idea of human evolution and advancement, that people can change to the better, and living involves loving the life.
I've really enjoyed this episode. STO is full of action and battles if you like them, from the queues to some foundry episodes or the random events you can fight your way lika a berserker if you want, but Star trek best stories never involved battles as the main action.
This episode brings questions that doesn't really need to be answered by the writers, it's more fun to let the player think about the implications of the actions taken that get an answer that closes the story and doesn't explain at all the subyacent ideas raised. The alliance has now a god like power and is still defenseless against the force of the destiny, that is how the epic stories begin. Nobody can defeat the ciclops, and Nobody did.
Of course is always a taste matter, but I Think that the better Sci-fi pieces are always the ones that brings questions and defy our vision of the world rather than the ones that merely tells closed epic stories and gives all the answers like a religious book. In fact I really hate those episodes that close abruptly and in a pedestrian way challenging ideas, I recall the second apparition of Moriarty, it was highly illogical that him went back to the old and plain self after the gift of the live that Data gave him unintentionally. That was a story that didn't needed to be closed, meking the character an archetype again was a realy dull idea that killed a fascinating question about life that complemented Data's struggles for being alive. In some way I felt like somebody was very angry with the idea of human evolution and advancement, that people can change to the better, and living involves loving the life.
I will have to disagree with that. I am all for leaving questions open for the viewer/gamer/reader to ponder, but those questions must make sense. In that regard this episode failed twice. First the questions left unanswered are not very good (how did Romulus get destroyed again?), and second, the question that should be left to the player to answer was spoon fed to us -- that using the time weapon is bad.
Writers, and not just of this game mind you, seem to think the complexities of temporal mechanics provides an excuse for lazy writing.
Having said that, I did enjoy that this mission was more story driven and dialogue focused.
Comments
For example:
Miral Paris playing a role during the Klingon-Fed war arc? She's back for the Iconian War.
The Krenim mentioned as a casualty in the beginning of Delta Rising? Back for Season 10.5.
A Xindi delegate out of nowhere? Xindi lockboxes.
Out of all pets one could get from the "Year of Hell" lockbox, we get beagles, which are more associated to ST Enterprise? We have Clauda later (better explanation in the next spoiler).
Let's put aside the simulation part and go to the borg: First they stated that something happened 20 years ago in the delta quadrant that have enhanced the borgs in this new timeline.
ok... in which way what the Annorax have done could have any influence in the delta quadrant in the first place ? It doesn't make sense.
Second when they have erased the borg gate, it affects again the delta quadrant by erasing the Tuterians because this time they didn't succeed to adapt?
Doesn't make sense again because it's the borg who are affected and probably negatively, so in which magical way it could have affected the Tuterians?
Third, Romulus. We have erased both the mean that destroyed Romulus and the gate that allow the borg to assimilate it, so why it is destroyed again?
It's clear that the writers had no idea about logic concerning any changes on the timeline. Yes it's unpredictable, but it also works in a logical way.
Last, we have not really any clear explanations about any changes of the timeline following Butterfly, just hints from Kagran:
- Kagran has changed on his view about the Krenim weapon:
Before the episode it's their last hope in his mind and he clearly pushed for using it.
After the episode he thinks that our action was too reckless and his speech make me think that he was doubtful about this weapon from the start.
- The situation about the Alliance:
Before: The Annorax ship is their last card to defeat the Iconians, no others possibilities.
After: Kragan said that it's time to think on others alternatives.
It's hypothetical but i think that the Annorax did change something that make the situation of the Alliance in a better state: There's others alternatives possible to defeat the Iconians meaning that the Alliance has other cards in their hand aside of the Krenim weapon.
The goal is reached in a way: They wanted to make their situation better against the Iconians and they succeeded, but not the way they though.
Oh and the slideshow about STLV mentioned that there will be a new to STO enemy in season 11. I think we just saw a preview of who.
My character Tsin'xing
But to give two examples:
If the Iconia episode doesn't happen, that means there is one extra Galaxy Class ship in Starfleet.
1)
This extra ship will have its own adventures, maybe they trigger the Borg doing something different this time. Say, the Yamato finds the first Hirogen Communication Satellite (instead of the Voyager many years later), and this prompts the Hirogen to dispatch a few ships to deal with the insolent people mucking around with their technology. But this means these ships are not there to defend against a Borg attack, and this means one extra Borg Probe survives a battle against the Hirogen. And this probe is then send to investigate a planet that the Borg didn't yet get around to investigate in the original timeline, and there they find a powerful artifact.
2)
Maybe this actually leads to the Enterprise being diverted to a different course, Q deciding to instigate the Borg incident at a different point in time or not at all - but if there isn't a Borg ship reporting about the Enterprise at the right time, or reporting the specifics of the Enterprise incident, the collective doesn't divert a ship to deal with it. On its original course, however, this ship would eventually stumble upon a powerful artifact that boosts the Borg technological capabilities.
And a 3rd:
That asteroid that was deleted from existence? Well, it actually broke in two pieces millenia ago, and if it is never created, the original asteroid must have less mass and flies a different route throug space. But that means it does crash on a planet, causing a major mass extinction event. Out of the ashes, eventually a new species evolves that develops advanced technology - that is now found by the Borg.
I could be wrong, but IIRC, the Tholians, story-wise, had veeeery little "screen time". They hardly have a plotline to begin, let alone finish.
There's the Nukara ground battlezone, which is just tossed to us after a level up like: "Hey there's a planet you might like to take a look at if you want some target practice. You know, just saying". Then they were there to give the players something to shoot at on New Romulus, Azure Nebula Rescue, Crystalline Entity, they had the Temporal Ambassador episode aaaand that's about it.
Even the Borg and Breen story arcs are longer than that.
-
"To boldly go to the stars on the wings of the faithful."
Our new long term enemy then... the Iconian's gift that keeps on giving!
"This would certainly explain the original Enterprise's encounter with the "Sphere Builders" in the Delphic Expanse. We need to contact the Xindi. They might know more. So, instead of eliminating or delaying the threat posed by a hostile faction, we created a new one instead... or rather, ensured that the one in our past and future would exist," A'Dranna says, then nervously tugs at her uniform jacket and continues, "Making so many enemies makes me thirsty. Now that we've met our daily quota, who wants some raktajino? I'm buying!"
-
"To boldly go to the stars on the wings of the faithful."
I see however a lot of wasted potential for detail work.
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My character Tsin'xing
The best way to deal with the Iconians, is to not deal with them at all. - or something along those lines.
I don't think even the Dominion is capable of opposing them. The caution of the Iconians probably comes from the fact that the Founders, through their Vorta and Jem'Hadar, have a very effective way to project power, and maintain strict control over worlds within their borders, and that their forces are extremely well organized and tightly controlled. Iconian agents barely have room to breathe in their space, making incursions into the Dominion "high risk operations" - especially for a faction that wanted to stay in the shadows until the very last moment. Plus that tight control might allow the Dominion to keep crucial intelligence from leaking.
This potential lack of knowledge is what I think gives the Iconians pause. Also, from the look of things, they've been preparing for a blitzkrieg all along, not for protracted, open wars. - though they seem to have the hardware and manpower for even that.
-
"To boldly go to the stars on the wings of the faithful."
In House Pegh, a console contains this line:
"We must complete our campaign to take this galaxy as quickly as possible."
This suggests (to me anyway) that they have precious little time to spare. Considering that the IGN (Iconian Gateway Network, yes
Maybe we're looking at a scenario similar to the one which was portrayed in Stargate Atlantis. The 'Lanteans migrated from the Milky Way to Pegasus, then they encountered the Wraith, and went back running to the Milky Way where they eventually ascended.
Where I'm trying to draw the parallel is this:
Maybe the Iconians are fighting a losing war back in the Andromeda galaxy and they've been working on preparing their return to the Milky Way. Familiar territory, out of the enemy's reach. With the sacrifice of a few, they can "stage their extinction" while the rest of the populace escapes. It's all a question of preparing the galaxy for their arrival. Subjugating it so they can rebuild what they've lost in Andromeda. And while their empire is rebuilt, they can find refuge in all those giant spheres.
^Going from that: we haven't even seen a single true Iconian ship yet. Only the toys they've given to their servitors and the Heralds. Even now, we don't know the true extent of their power and when we think of what could be in the Andromeda galaxy.... O.O *shivers*
One big conjecture. But it's fun brainstorming over it! ^^
-
"To boldly go to the stars on the wings of the faithful."
The Andromeda galaxy is a dying galaxy, at least according to the Kelvans
Maybe because of the war the Iconians are fighting there with this... unknown force?
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"To boldly go to the stars on the wings of the faithful."
"Humanity hadn't been expanding. They were running!" - slot "Iconians" in the place of "Humans" in this instance.
Then again @rekurzion could be right. After forced into exile, the Iconians may have tried to start over in Andromeda, but ultimately realized that it's either this galaxy, or nothing.
But I still can't shake this line.
"We must complete our campaign to take this galaxy as quickly as possible."
Even if there is no war in Andromeda, and that the Iconians only wanted a speedy conquest to avoid a galaxy-wide alliance, looks like their attention is divided between our war with them, and something else - whatever that is.
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"To boldly go to the stars on the wings of the faithful."
"Centuries ago, the Kelvans became aware of dangerously rising radiation levels in Andromeda, a development expected to make that galaxy uninhabitable for their species within 10,000 years (or 10 millennia)." -Memory Alpha
To the Kelvans.
And like you said the Iconian Empire fell 200,000 years ago. Remember in Uneasy Allies Sela leads us to a "staging sphere" in the Andromeda galaxy, which is filled with a Herald armada, ready to jump back to Iconia. There may be more to that galaxy than just a cloud of radiation.
Maybe that's why the Iconians are on "borrowed time". They could be fleeing from that radiation because it eventually becomes lethal to them too. It could have also been a temporary "flare" which will eventually die off before it could become harmful to all life over there. Who knows?
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"To boldly go to the stars on the wings of the faithful."
Clauda was very interesting but I think the visual similarities to you know who may have been coincidental and they just needed to create a Delta Quadrant race Voyager had never encountered so they weren't bound story-wise.
I'm looking forward to all the possibilities in New Dawn. Though since I've been recording STO missions, and I've nearly finished Delta Quadrant I'd be a bit grumpy about missions getting revamped haha.
Back on topic though I really loved Butterfly, best Iconian episode since Uneasy Allies and I'd say the most entertaining overall though more could have been done to make the simulated realities more distinct like different uniforms and that.
My character Tsin'xing
I'm not sure, From what we have seen of the Kelvans, I suspect they would be a match for the Iconians. It's actually quite possible the Iconians and Kelvans may not actually have much contact considering the kinds of planets trueform Kelvans inhabit.
If the Iconians are leery about not rushing to attack the Dominion, they should be very concerned about fighting the Kelvans. Then again, M'Tara's "duty" seemed t be ruling the Milky Way. Kelvans might be allied to the Iconians (Not a pleasant thought at all). Or the Kelvans might turn out to be the Other, though I still think it is going to be the Player that takes that role.
This episode brings questions that doesn't really need to be answered by the writers, it's more fun to let the player think about the implications of the actions taken that get an answer that closes the story and doesn't explain at all the subyacent ideas raised. The alliance has now a god like power and is still defenseless against the force of the destiny, that is how the epic stories begin. Nobody can defeat the ciclops, and Nobody did.
Of course is always a taste matter, but I Think that the better Sci-fi pieces are always the ones that brings questions and defy our vision of the world rather than the ones that merely tells closed epic stories and gives all the answers like a religious book. In fact I really hate those episodes that close abruptly and in a pedestrian way challenging ideas, I recall the second apparition of Moriarty, it was highly illogical that him went back to the old and plain self after the gift of the live that Data gave him unintentionally. That was a story that didn't needed to be closed, meking the character an archetype again was a realy dull idea that killed a fascinating question about life that complemented Data's struggles for being alive. In some way I felt like somebody was very angry with the idea of human evolution and advancement, that people can change to the better, and living involves loving the life.
I will have to disagree with that. I am all for leaving questions open for the viewer/gamer/reader to ponder, but those questions must make sense. In that regard this episode failed twice. First the questions left unanswered are not very good (how did Romulus get destroyed again?), and second, the question that should be left to the player to answer was spoon fed to us -- that using the time weapon is bad.
Writers, and not just of this game mind you, seem to think the complexities of temporal mechanics provides an excuse for lazy writing.
Having said that, I did enjoy that this mission was more story driven and dialogue focused.