By the time I got my Delta Recruit through all of the episodes, I had 17 million EC's from vendor trash alone.
Getting rich in this game truly isn't difficult as long as one is willing to actually put the time into playing it.
(I'm sitting on about 580 million with my nine toons)
There's plenty of things to buy with EC's in the game also if one wants to super-gear-up for STF's.
No need to add more.
How in the world did you do that? My DRs didn't even break 10m including the hefty chunks of bonus cash they get for the various goal completions.
I like Doffing and the R&D system (selling what I make), so some of that 17 million is from that, also the only consumables I buy are the small shield charges, power cells and hypos.
I've also always played on Advanced which brings in better Vendor Trash and a bit more EC's.
It also doesn't hurt that I use my older toons to help supplement the newer ones when I first start them.
(hand-me-downs help save a lot of EC's)
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
How in the world did you do that? My DRs didn't even break 10m including the hefty chunks of bonus cash they get for the various goal completions.
I just gathered about 250 million EC in about less than 2 weeks just selling contraband in the exchange with 10 toons... and my delta recruits all of em got about 5-10 million EC after the last mission goal... in part as well for selling contraband... of course most of em are KDF.
Buy contraband -> turn in -> turn dil into EC -> repeat (very time consuming, but it's more than 100% profit)
I know it's stupid, and I was way too lazy for that, but it really works and has one of the games highest ROIs.
How do you convert dilithium into EC?? or i am confused somehow...
you convert it to zen, then to ec.
there is a method to go contra>dil>xen>ec>contra and end up with a profit, but the profit doesnt offset the effort required for 99% of people.
EC sinks? Not needed in my view. Not coming too, because EC is a roleplay currency. The real currency is dilithium/Zen. For those we have plenty of sinks.
If you think you have too much EC, send it to an alt, delete the alt and phooff, your alt is gone and so is the EC. Here is your EC sink. That is your EC of course and people will say, what about all the EC? So you are talking about all the EC, that is also mine EC. What do you have to do with mine EC? Are you a bloody commy?
By the time I got my Delta Recruit through all of the episodes, I had 17 million EC's from vendor trash alone.
Getting rich in this game truly isn't difficult as long as one is willing to actually put the time into playing it.
(I'm sitting on about 580 million with my nine toons)
There's plenty of things to buy with EC's in the game also if one wants to super-gear-up for STF's.
No need to add more.
How in the world did you do that? My DRs didn't even break 10m including the hefty chunks of bonus cash they get for the various goal completions.
I like Doffing and the R&D system (selling what I make), so some of that 17 million is from that, also the only consumables I buy are the small shield charges, power cells and hypos.
I've also always played on Advanced which brings in better Vendor Trash and a bit more EC's.
It also doesn't hurt that I use my older toons to help supplement the newer ones when I first start them.
(hand-me-downs help save a lot of EC's)
Okay, well you said vendor trash alone gave you 17m. I know you can get more valuable drops on advanced/elite, but it isn't going to make up the ~10m difference there.
Personally I didn't give my DRs anything that I didn't craft myself considering the free rewards earned from the DR stuff, and don't bother with the consumables for leveling.
How in the world did you do that? My DRs didn't even break 10m including the hefty chunks of bonus cash they get for the various goal completions.
I just gathered about 250 million EC in about less than 2 weeks just selling contraband in the exchange with 10 toons... and my delta recruits all of em got about 5-10 million EC after the last mission goal... in part as well for selling contraband... of course most of em are KDF.
Yes I know there are things to sell on the exchange, the question was regarding vendor trash and the extreme amount claimed from that. The entire thread is about EC sinks and generation, of which contraband and the market has absolutely no effect upon, while vendoring loot is the major way to actually generate EC.
If you farm the contraband on buttloads of KDF toons, you'll have a 4h timegated profit of 283.733 EC and yes it was a lot more profitable when ZEN was cheaper. Also, maybe other ZEN store items might be a better deal.
I think you can grab a lot more money when you're running a craft bot. I guess some mio EC per hour.
EC sinks should add realism. Routine maintenance DOFF missions should require EC for the raw materials involved. Not every spacedock is Federation run and owned. They'll gladly change your oil and check your tire pressure...for a fee.
How would you feel if some character level c-store items could be brought with EC from NPCs? Things like more doff slots, boff slots, respecs, and the like. The c-store versions would still be there as an easier way to get these things. Yes, no, maybe, I don't know, should I repeat the question?
Those are applied immediately or bound at purchase from C-Store specifically because they don't want players to buy them from exchange. Items which are tradeable, such as pets and vanity items, are sold on exchange and usually for a reasonable price, no ec sink there. Providing them for an equivalent value of ec will not make the difference to the economy that's needed to adjust for inflation. It would just make it easy to get and that defeats the whole purpose of being hard-earned specialty items, unlocks or perks.
...The only way to reduce credits in game is to reduce the generation of EC. The only way you do that is buy reducing the way it is generated, by selling loot to the vendor. That would be worse for not rich players than rich players.
You and others have made good points in this thread, and some here do understand the concepts but on the whole, comprehensive scope of the issue is missing. Let's try again from the top.
The 3 main causes of ec inflation: Influx of currency, currency retention and reducing circulation. Everything from vendoring loot to hoarding ec on multiple accounts to giving free access to fleet items and ships contributes to ec devaluation.
1- Influx of currency: Imagine dollars rolling off a printing press revolving day and night because they couldn't shut it off. Bringing new ec in faster than it is spent contributes to inflation.
2- Currency retention: Think of this like stashing all the dollar bills you get and keeping them while the printers keep on going. Eventually, there'd be too many dollar bills in the hands of people and feds would have to decree the dollar bill void as legal tender because it would be practically valueless. Not spending ec, but stocking it in bank after bank to accumulate billions is hoarding. Hoarding devalues currency because the more is stashed, the more liquid currency there is.
3- Reducing circulation: A side effect of currency retention is reduction of circulation. Think of this like having all those dollar bills and spending a portion for your wants, but you now have so many dollar bills, your wants only cover a mere fraction of a percent of the amount needed to spend your stash. Like a dammed river, the currency isn't flowing back into the economy at a fast enough rate. The economy therefore becomes stagnant. The more hoarders, the higher likelihood of stagflation, where the economy is stagnant and goods aren't moving, but inflation keeps growing anyway. Why?
you sure there's no exploits around which are allowing this?
Nearly every MMO has such issues and STO is no exception. Many know about my fierce opposition to bully and troll factions on STO, less talked about is my equally firm stand against groups exploiting STO for profit. Both trolls and exploiters abuse game systems for their schemes at the expense of regular players. While my vocal opposition has generated disdain among the player community who prefer to retain status quo - and label me instead, only a few players actually understand the chain of problems generated by the persistence of both types of abusive behavior and consequences of apathetic complacency for all gamers on STO.
There hasn't been a recent game change to the rate of generation of new EC into the game. ..
I'll explain why without going into unnecessary detail on the methods of this taboo topic.
People don't see it and therefore don't speak out because
A ) current ec exploits have been a gradually increasing process over the past 6 months to a year.
B ) many players are glad to get their hands on extra ec and could care less where it comes from.
C ) unless you know what they're doing beforehand, ec exploiting is not directly obvious. Vast majority not doing it in a way which screams in your face "Hey look, I'm botting billions and don't care a boot!" Most players don't know how to distinguish the tell-tale signs of ec exploiter activity and majority hardly pay attention anyway.
D ) exploiters recruit and train others in their methods in return for help to build their fleets. The recruiters themselves work for a higher boss who may not even play STO at all, but just reaps revenue from sales on their 3rd party sites. Recruited players are sworn to silence from the start and zealously guard secrets told by their recruiter in fear for their accounts.
E ) ec exploiters pass on their botted earnings through account chains, some which makes its way to off-site sellers, some to their minions, some to troll groups; who use it to give giveaways and party behind the scenes at how smart they think they are having cheated the system without no one any wiser. The exploiters use the giveaways to attract new followers, poorer players who are going to naturally discriminate against anyone who speaks out against their "helpers," little realizing the gifts are not free - the loyalty and consequent silence is the price for such activity. And so the wheel goes full circle. That's how exploiters and troll groups function in tandem to exercise control over players, reducing possibility of secrets leaking out.
Guess what though, this is a public MMORPG, there's always someone who's going to pay attention and with enough aptitude, piece the puzzle together. I've tried to balance and explain things without breaking the rules, but if I go too far Admins, feel free to give me a kind nudge and I will redact.
It's us good regular players who compose the playerbase of STO. Guys and gals who make the effort to stay within the rules and actually use the game for what it is, to play in an enjoyable entertainment venue. The bad ones do not care either way and there's always a few who brazenly flaunt themselves with no fear of admin action. Caught this upstanding pillar of the community the other day at a popular botter hangout. Anyone surprised? I'm not.
Small sinks really don't work out so well, it'd need to be very large amounts; as exclusive, limited-time options for the spacerich to help the economy recover.
They're the only ones capable of sinking enough existing ECs to make any sort of difference in the inflation rate for us poor folks to notice. As much as I don't like it, a small group being eligible to receive special things the rest of us cannot, it seems to be our only viable option at this point...
We've found out by keeping currency from circulating and being reinvested (hence, disappearing), ec affluent players are themselves contributing to inflation. The methods you suggest are on the most part sound, but it would make only a minimal dent until devs take care of the ec exploiters or unless they restrict ec.
I'd disagree that the rich are the only ones capable of making any difference in inflation. That is only true if you look through the perspective of buying power. Despite that, ordinary players have effect on the economy due to their collective habits.
By farming ec and vending space junk, put together they are influencing inflation too by their grind methods. If we truly were concerned for inflation, we'd be encouraging the rich to circulate ec by donating to the poor and buying more items rather than hoarding ec, and discouraging vending of loot and ec farming; which is what devs tried to instigate by drastically lowering item values last year.
Some will point out this will inevitably result in P2P players paying for F2P's and I'd say, so what? If a P2P player wants to open their wallet, regardless of reason, so much the better for STO. But pretending to be rich by exploiting is harmful to the economy.
What's to stop the poor from hoarding ec given by the rich? Well if they do, they won't be poor then would they? The same constructive habits apply for the goose as for the gander. When I give to newer players, it's to make them self-reliant and pass on the good deed to the next player, and so on. Some rich fear if any amount of wealth finds its way to the poor, they will become bling-happy hoarders. In reality, majority of players are responsible individuals who do as they see others doing. If they see a good example, they will follow it. Similarly, if they see others being stingy, they do the same.
Would that increase the amount of lazy players looking for handouts? No. The giver has control over what they give and to who. I don't give to players like that and I don't think majority of established players would either.
There is nothing wrong with being either one or the other. If they could get past their ego barriers and promote good habits, both rich and poor can reach a large-scale mutually beneficial partnership and strengthen STO's economy while reducing inflation. It's the one way it can be done without creating an ec sink or devs restricting ec in some way.
It's a true cooperative effort in sync with the time-honored principles of Star Trek.
Some people are under the assumption that everyone is rich in this game. I'm somewhere in the middle of the pack but you guys know damn well there are many players that have trouble getting together 1 million EC. That's a fact in this game and playerbase. More forced resource sinks isn't going to help Captain Average Joe in STO.
What is a good range of ec to aim for? 100mil liquid ec on an account is a good balance to maintain for one's needs. I'd recommend anything above that for investment in gear and future currency obtaining opportunities.
Here's another fact: By encouraging financial stability and responsibility from rich to poor to rich again, players are more likely to circulate their ec into goods and help others in turn, which not only helps the economy and reduces inflation; it becomes a reinforcing helpful cycle.
The things is... I Don't Feel The Need To Have EVERYTHING In The Game.
(even thought through the years I've probably collected every ship They've released at least once)
I have my own Fleet for the nine toons and don't do PvP anymore, so I'm quite content with how much I've managed to acquire.
NOT having billions of EC's, in no way effects my enjoyment of playing the game.
Exactly. Anyone who wants to know what it feels like as a regular player on STO, have a chat with the chap above, he'll tell you. Majority of players are good and content regular gamers - with the exception of that worthless idiot friend of furries xtern1ty ofc.
The main reason I even thought about EC sinks is to help out against the rising AH prices. I'm broke myself ingame so I'm not really targeting my fellow broke people. I'm mostly going after that "1%" that is sitting on the EC cap for themselves, their account bank, and fleet bank that is still making more money.
Meet me on STO and I'll give you a million ec. You don't owe me a thing, if you want just pass the tradition on when you can afford, to the next player in need.
Comments
I like Doffing and the R&D system (selling what I make), so some of that 17 million is from that, also the only consumables I buy are the small shield charges, power cells and hypos.
I've also always played on Advanced which brings in better Vendor Trash and a bit more EC's.
It also doesn't hurt that I use my older toons to help supplement the newer ones when I first start them.
(hand-me-downs help save a lot of EC's)
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
I just gathered about 250 million EC in about less than 2 weeks just selling contraband in the exchange with 10 toons... and my delta recruits all of em got about 5-10 million EC after the last mission goal... in part as well for selling contraband... of course most of em are KDF.
How do you convert dilithium into EC?? or i am confused somehow...
there is a method to go contra>dil>xen>ec>contra and end up with a profit, but the profit doesnt offset the effort required for 99% of people.
free jkname
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Dil -> ZEN -> Keys -> EC
If you think you have too much EC, send it to an alt, delete the alt and phooff, your alt is gone and so is the EC. Here is your EC sink. That is your EC of course and people will say, what about all the EC? So you are talking about all the EC, that is also mine EC. What do you have to do with mine EC? Are you a bloody commy?
Okay, well you said vendor trash alone gave you 17m. I know you can get more valuable drops on advanced/elite, but it isn't going to make up the ~10m difference there.
Personally I didn't give my DRs anything that I didn't craft myself considering the free rewards earned from the DR stuff, and don't bother with the consumables for leveling.
Yes I know there are things to sell on the exchange, the question was regarding vendor trash and the extreme amount claimed from that. The entire thread is about EC sinks and generation, of which contraband and the market has absolutely no effect upon, while vendoring loot is the major way to actually generate EC.
Yeah, that is what i was thinking, still not even closer to the effectiveness of just selling contraband.
5 Contraband (210.000 EC) = 2.000 Dil = 8,4 ZEN = 0,0747 Keys = 283.733 (EC)
283.733 EC - 210.000 EC = 73.733 EC <-- Profit per 5 Contraband, 4h timegated
If you farm the contraband on buttloads of KDF toons, you'll have a 4h timegated profit of 283.733 EC and yes it was a lot more profitable when ZEN was cheaper. Also, maybe other ZEN store items might be a better deal.
I think you can grab a lot more money when you're running a craft bot. I guess some mio EC per hour.
Those are applied immediately or bound at purchase from C-Store specifically because they don't want players to buy them from exchange. Items which are tradeable, such as pets and vanity items, are sold on exchange and usually for a reasonable price, no ec sink there. Providing them for an equivalent value of ec will not make the difference to the economy that's needed to adjust for inflation. It would just make it easy to get and that defeats the whole purpose of being hard-earned specialty items, unlocks or perks.
You and others have made good points in this thread, and some here do understand the concepts but on the whole, comprehensive scope of the issue is missing. Let's try again from the top.
The 3 main causes of ec inflation: Influx of currency, currency retention and reducing circulation. Everything from vendoring loot to hoarding ec on multiple accounts to giving free access to fleet items and ships contributes to ec devaluation.
1- Influx of currency: Imagine dollars rolling off a printing press revolving day and night because they couldn't shut it off. Bringing new ec in faster than it is spent contributes to inflation.
2- Currency retention: Think of this like stashing all the dollar bills you get and keeping them while the printers keep on going. Eventually, there'd be too many dollar bills in the hands of people and feds would have to decree the dollar bill void as legal tender because it would be practically valueless. Not spending ec, but stocking it in bank after bank to accumulate billions is hoarding. Hoarding devalues currency because the more is stashed, the more liquid currency there is.
3- Reducing circulation: A side effect of currency retention is reduction of circulation. Think of this like having all those dollar bills and spending a portion for your wants, but you now have so many dollar bills, your wants only cover a mere fraction of a percent of the amount needed to spend your stash. Like a dammed river, the currency isn't flowing back into the economy at a fast enough rate. The economy therefore becomes stagnant. The more hoarders, the higher likelihood of stagflation, where the economy is stagnant and goods aren't moving, but inflation keeps growing anyway. Why?
Nearly every MMO has such issues and STO is no exception. Many know about my fierce opposition to bully and troll factions on STO, less talked about is my equally firm stand against groups exploiting STO for profit. Both trolls and exploiters abuse game systems for their schemes at the expense of regular players. While my vocal opposition has generated disdain among the player community who prefer to retain status quo - and label me instead, only a few players actually understand the chain of problems generated by the persistence of both types of abusive behavior and consequences of apathetic complacency for all gamers on STO.
I'll explain why without going into unnecessary detail on the methods of this taboo topic.
People don't see it and therefore don't speak out because
A ) current ec exploits have been a gradually increasing process over the past 6 months to a year.
B ) many players are glad to get their hands on extra ec and could care less where it comes from.
C ) unless you know what they're doing beforehand, ec exploiting is not directly obvious. Vast majority not doing it in a way which screams in your face "Hey look, I'm botting billions and don't care a boot!" Most players don't know how to distinguish the tell-tale signs of ec exploiter activity and majority hardly pay attention anyway.
D ) exploiters recruit and train others in their methods in return for help to build their fleets. The recruiters themselves work for a higher boss who may not even play STO at all, but just reaps revenue from sales on their 3rd party sites. Recruited players are sworn to silence from the start and zealously guard secrets told by their recruiter in fear for their accounts.
E ) ec exploiters pass on their botted earnings through account chains, some which makes its way to off-site sellers, some to their minions, some to troll groups; who use it to give giveaways and party behind the scenes at how smart they think they are having cheated the system without no one any wiser. The exploiters use the giveaways to attract new followers, poorer players who are going to naturally discriminate against anyone who speaks out against their "helpers," little realizing the gifts are not free - the loyalty and consequent silence is the price for such activity. And so the wheel goes full circle. That's how exploiters and troll groups function in tandem to exercise control over players, reducing possibility of secrets leaking out.
Guess what though, this is a public MMORPG, there's always someone who's going to pay attention and with enough aptitude, piece the puzzle together. I've tried to balance and explain things without breaking the rules, but if I go too far Admins, feel free to give me a kind nudge and I will redact.
It's us good regular players who compose the playerbase of STO. Guys and gals who make the effort to stay within the rules and actually use the game for what it is, to play in an enjoyable entertainment venue. The bad ones do not care either way and there's always a few who brazenly flaunt themselves with no fear of admin action. Caught this upstanding pillar of the community the other day at a popular botter hangout. Anyone surprised? I'm not.
We've found out by keeping currency from circulating and being reinvested (hence, disappearing), ec affluent players are themselves contributing to inflation. The methods you suggest are on the most part sound, but it would make only a minimal dent until devs take care of the ec exploiters or unless they restrict ec.
I'd disagree that the rich are the only ones capable of making any difference in inflation. That is only true if you look through the perspective of buying power. Despite that, ordinary players have effect on the economy due to their collective habits.
By farming ec and vending space junk, put together they are influencing inflation too by their grind methods. If we truly were concerned for inflation, we'd be encouraging the rich to circulate ec by donating to the poor and buying more items rather than hoarding ec, and discouraging vending of loot and ec farming; which is what devs tried to instigate by drastically lowering item values last year.
Some will point out this will inevitably result in P2P players paying for F2P's and I'd say, so what? If a P2P player wants to open their wallet, regardless of reason, so much the better for STO. But pretending to be rich by exploiting is harmful to the economy.
What's to stop the poor from hoarding ec given by the rich? Well if they do, they won't be poor then would they? The same constructive habits apply for the goose as for the gander. When I give to newer players, it's to make them self-reliant and pass on the good deed to the next player, and so on. Some rich fear if any amount of wealth finds its way to the poor, they will become bling-happy hoarders. In reality, majority of players are responsible individuals who do as they see others doing. If they see a good example, they will follow it. Similarly, if they see others being stingy, they do the same.
Would that increase the amount of lazy players looking for handouts? No. The giver has control over what they give and to who. I don't give to players like that and I don't think majority of established players would either.
There is nothing wrong with being either one or the other. If they could get past their ego barriers and promote good habits, both rich and poor can reach a large-scale mutually beneficial partnership and strengthen STO's economy while reducing inflation. It's the one way it can be done without creating an ec sink or devs restricting ec in some way.
It's a true cooperative effort in sync with the time-honored principles of Star Trek.
What is a good range of ec to aim for? 100mil liquid ec on an account is a good balance to maintain for one's needs. I'd recommend anything above that for investment in gear and future currency obtaining opportunities.
Here's another fact: By encouraging financial stability and responsibility from rich to poor to rich again, players are more likely to circulate their ec into goods and help others in turn, which not only helps the economy and reduces inflation; it becomes a reinforcing helpful cycle.
Exactly. Anyone who wants to know what it feels like as a regular player on STO, have a chat with the chap above, he'll tell you. Majority of players are good and content regular gamers - with the exception of that worthless idiot friend of furries xtern1ty ofc.
Meet me on STO and I'll give you a million ec. You don't owe me a thing, if you want just pass the tradition on when you can afford, to the next player in need.