I have wasted almost 1 billion EC on gear upgrades before I quit this game. I think thats more than enough. New and casual players won't ever be able to upgrade all gear. Before the upgrade system was introduced I never spend more than ~100mio EC for 1 set of items.
The fact you think 100mil is an ok amount to spend on gear says a lot. Also why did VD stop posting when he dropped the game and you are still around.
i do think sto needs some big ec-sinks. current sinks dont seem to have a dramatic effect overall, as they are necessarily tailored to be affordable by all. it would burden the average person if transwarp fees were jacked up or if starbase inputs were increased.
since sto has nothing like a tax bracket or capital gains, the easiest way to pull vast sums of ec out of the economy is to offer the top earning 10% something to burn their ec on that isnt a mere redistribution or a pursuit of more wealth.
if cryptic really wanted to give people an incentive to give up big chunks of ec, they could do that pretty easy. they could pull hundreds of billions out in no time flat by simply offering something that could only be obtained via a steep ec price. and by steep i am talking 1bn ec or more.
too rich for you?
transfer opened lockbox ship within your own account: 50m ec
account unlock- one spec point: 50m ec
you could sit down and dream these up all day. neat features that arent 'p2w', yet still highly desirable. these bound-to-account items would be sold by vendors, not in the cstore and not on the exchange. any ec spent on them would simply vanish from the economy. how many of those do you think theyd sell? i reckon a whole heap. maybe cryptic should consider selling something people want for ec if they want to reduce the amount of ec in the economy.
Agreed, we need some larger (voluntary) credits sinks best starting with 100 (or 50 mil) with 50 mil intervals, like special clothing at 50m, or a xindi fighter for example (with let's say... yellowstone stats)? no problem, please insert 200m, or the aforementioned "warp to a friend" for said 1 b (cool idea.. and hard to get nowadays without a referal program).
Beta, LTA, CE, Multiple preorder Versions, all Addon Packs except AoY, nearly all KDF/Rom and ~50% of all Fedships, over 25 LockboxShips, Endurer of Atari's "Year of Hell", but...
We need huge EC sinks very soon, and special ships, clothing or items that can only be bought with a LOT of EC are the way to go! There should also be new fleet store items or services/boosts that should be only purchasable for EC as well at very high prices. It's REALLY time for Cryptic to do something about this inflation beyond just tightening the faucet, we need drainage, but a very attractive drainage at that.
Transwarp to a Friend, nice idea. But i think i would just do a Little more Exchange to get that 1000 million ec - only a matter of time, guess 10 weeks if me is a bit unlucky. U don't sell stuff if it is cheap. All u Need to make ec on Exchange is EC. So any ec sink will make the rich a bit more rich and the poor ...
nice u wasted so much time in your sig - i do not see it anyway
I have wasted almost 1 billion EC on gear upgrades before I quit this game. I think thats more than enough. New and casual players won't ever be able to upgrade all gear. Before the upgrade system was introduced I never spend more than ~100mio EC for 1 set of items.
The fact you think 100mil is an ok amount to spend on gear says a lot. Also why did VD stop posting when he dropped the game and you are still around.
I miss him
Why shouldn't 100mio EC be enough? It still sums up. I had 3 PvP main toons, all of them had not 1 set of gear but up to 10 sets! This is not counting ships and traits - only gear.
Even pre-DR I spent billions of EC on my arena chars. A "normal" User will struggle to ever see more than 10 mio EC in their bank.
Any new EC/Dil sinks are going to kill the game for most casual players. Right now it is already way too much - it even drove me away, a person that was trading with ships, I had entire bank tabs full of that stuff.
Crafting & upgrading 1 Ship Weapon to epic mk XIV (with perfect modifiers of course) shouldn't be more like 10mio EC in my opinion.
it was not uncommon for desirable acc3 weapons to sell for 100m or more
That is not true. The only weapon in that price range was an VR Elachi DBB [acc]x3. Most other weapons were around 10mio EC. I remember buying lots of those sets. If you wanted unpopular types like Polaron and Tetryon you even got perfect mods for 0.2-3mio EC. VR Polaron Turrets [acc]x3 were like 80.000 EC back then...
DOFFs and some Consoles had been the expensive stuff. Battery DOFF? How about spending 250mio EC
If you're asking me, all gear should be 100% free and selectable from the start to provide the best balance and fairness. If you want to spend money, there should be options for new skins and visuals. But well, I guess this is just the PvP Player speaking out of me...
EC sinks should've been things like starship supplies, repairs, deuterium, and torpedo ammo. Of course this being a casual friendly game everyone would hate the idea.
I would've liked anything that would give a better sense of immersion, a reason to go back to a port and resupply your vessel or rotate crew for improved performance. Or stock up for a deep space voyage. But unfortunately, this isn't that game.
I have wasted almost 1 billion EC on gear upgrades before I quit this game. I think thats more than enough. New and casual players won't ever be able to upgrade all gear. Before the upgrade system was introduced I never spend more than ~100mio EC for 1 set of items.
Because some people still dont understand that the upgrade system is an end-game feature. Meaning it is designed to keep you amused saving ec for many years... people still didnt realize that once pvp was eliminated ages ago, you reach a point in this game that you have nothing more to do. So, those "sinks" are designed to keep you playing when that point comes (same as the especialization tree). And the mechanics will never change, thats for sure.
I don't even understand how a pvp person could want gear to be "free and selectable." The whole,point of MMO pvp is to get better gear than the other guy and smash him.
Well, that's how non-PvP'ers think. And that's why they got beaten up in arena until DR.
In the top team matches everyone had perfect equip - getting better gear wasn't an option, it was only about skill, communication, strategies and competition.
By the time I got my Delta Recruit through all of the episodes, I had 17 million EC's from vendor trash alone.
Getting rich in this game truly isn't difficult as long as one is willing to actually put the time into playing it.
(I'm sitting on about 580 million with my nine toons)
There's plenty of things to buy with EC's in the game also if one wants to super-gear-up for STF's.
No need to add more.
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
By the time I got my Delta Recruit through all of the episodes, I had 7 million EC's from vendor trash alone.
Getting rich in this game truly isn't difficult as long as one is willing to actually play it.
(I'm sitting on about 58 million with my nine toons)
There's plenty of things to buy with EC's in the game also if one wants to super-gear-up for STF's.
No need to add more.
Congratz, these 58 million EC won't be enough to max out 1% of 1 character!
I'm not saying you need that (well, actually you can beat all PvE content with mission rewards), but if you wanted, there's no chance for ppl like you!
But there you have it, someone who claims to play since early 2009 (according to his signature) who never had any EC at all in this game. (don't be angry, but 58mio EC that's really almost nothing in the world of STO)
If anything, this game needs to remove 90% of Dil and EC sinks.
Anyone so concerned about having so much disposable EC should just hang around a social area and give it all away.
According to this statement, I think you'll agree that it's disgusting to ask for EC sinks while the majority can't even afford a decent gun for their ships.
I know that I might have been somewhere in the 1-3% at the top and that I could afford anything in this game. If I had to guess, I'd say that guys like repetitiveepic and OP are even way richer than I was. I wouldn't be suprised if they were at the top 0.01% and it's almost funny that it's always these guys crying for more dil and ec sinks - just to make the gap between them and the avarage players bigger.
if cryptic really wanted to give people an incentive to give up big chunks of ec, they could do that pretty easy. they could pull hundreds of billions out in no time flat by simply offering something that could only be obtained via a steep ec price. and by steep i am talking 1bn ec or more.
Here's the problem with that: You're setting up huge honkin' carrots for everyone who isn't quite as space rich to chase after. You're giving even more incentive to farm, play the exchange, etc which results in even more liquidity in EC, thus negating the whole purpose of introducing steep EC cost items in the first place.
By the time I got my Delta Recruit through all of the episodes, I had 17 million EC's from vendor trash alone.
Getting rich in this game truly isn't difficult as long as one is willing to actually put the time into playing it.
(I'm sitting on about 580 million with my nine toons)
There's plenty of things to buy with EC's in the game also if one wants to super-gear-up for STF's.
No need to add more.
How in the world did you do that? My DRs didn't even break 10m including the hefty chunks of bonus cash they get for the various goal completions.
A lot of people here on these forums do not understand what a EC Sink is. Buying a buch of upgrades on the exchange to make you equipment better is NOT A SINK. Buying ship modules with ecs IS NOT A SINK. Actually ANYTHING you buy on the exhange IS NOT A SINK.
Only expenses that total remove the ec's permanently from the economy are sinks. Things like fleet holdings.
EC sinks can, if large enough, reduce the total ecs in the entire STO economy. This will reduce the prices in the exchange. That is a good thing.
Reminds me how some players will complain about how expensive zen is in dil but the same players cry when anything requiring dil is added to the game to keep zen prices in check. 'Crypic is stealing my dil!' they cry.
A lot of people here on these forums do not understand what a EC Sink is. Buying a buch of upgrades on the exchange to make you equipment better is NOT A SINK. Buying ship modules with ecs IS NOT A SINK. Actually ANYTHING you buy on the exhange IS NOT A SINK.
Only expenses that total remove the ec's permanently from the economy are sinks. Things like fleet holdings.
EC sinks can, if large enough, reduce the total ecs in the entire STO economy. This will reduce the prices in the exchange. That is a good thing.
Reminds me how some players will complain about how expensive zen is in dil but the same players cry when anything requiring dil is added to the game to keep zen prices in check. 'Crypic is stealing my dil!' they cry.
Most of the stuff from the exchange was payed before with EC/Dil/Zen that were permanently removed from the game. So yes, it's a sink even if it's not the your money that's getting removed.
Also, sinks can be good thing, but cryptic tends to connect 'em to p2w in most cases. On the other hand, I love all sinks related to uniforms, pets, bridges and stuff.
If you guys were asking for unique 1mio ZEN Uniforms or 1 billion EC dogs - great, go ahead.
- cosmetic sinks (uniforms, non combat pets, titles, bridges, customization, skins) -> awesome, love 'em
In fact, I believe, in a perfect game, all balance related items (gear, ships, traits, doffs...you get the point) should be 100% free for all from the very start. I'd even love to have a button to create a maxed out character (lvl, RnD, spec tree, rep, etc).
This is the only way to guarantee a fair and competitive gaming environment. If you really want to be special and want to spend money - go get some custom visuals.
And yes, before you guys start asking: I would spend lots of money on that stuff just to promote this awesome and fair game model.
What you're describing is not an MMO. It's a different genre of game, like counter strike.
Mmos are different, they are games about progression. It's a different competition.
What you're describing is literally how counter strike and team fortress work. play those games if that's what you like to play... They are out there waiting for you. You will enjoy them...
Even though I think we already had this discussion somewhere else: Yes, CS:GO is exacly what I am playing right now since I quit STO. Still I would love to have that business model in STO aswell - its just one of my fundamental convictions that a game should be fair to be enjoyable.
By the time I got my Delta Recruit through all of the episodes, I had 17 million EC's from vendor trash
Getting rich in this game truly isn't difficult as long as one is willing to actually put the time into playing it.
(I'm sitting on about 580 million with my nine toons)
There's plenty of things to buy with EC's in the game also if one wants to super-gear-up for STF's.
No need to add more.
You are space lower middle class.
You'd be broke after buying a bug ship, you don't have enough to buy 3x of the new crtD doffs.
1b EC is space middle class. I'd say you need 10b to count as space rich.
In real life, a billionaire is legit rich. Someone with 500m dollars is legit rich too. But there are people with 100x that much.
If there was a cosmetic item that cost a billion EC, consider your space socio-economic class in terms of how buying it would affect your space finances.
The things is... I Don't Feel The Need To Have EVERYTHING In The Game.
(even thought through the years I've probably collected every ship They've released at least once)
I have my own Fleet for the nine toons and don't do PvP anymore, so I'm quite content with how much I've managed to acquire.
NOT having billions of EC's, in no way effects my enjoyment of playing the game.
STO Member since February 2009. I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born! Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Comments
The fact you think 100mil is an ok amount to spend on gear says a lot. Also why did VD stop posting when he dropped the game and you are still around.
I miss him
since sto has nothing like a tax bracket or capital gains, the easiest way to pull vast sums of ec out of the economy is to offer the top earning 10% something to burn their ec on that isnt a mere redistribution or a pursuit of more wealth.
if cryptic really wanted to give people an incentive to give up big chunks of ec, they could do that pretty easy. they could pull hundreds of billions out in no time flat by simply offering something that could only be obtained via a steep ec price. and by steep i am talking 1bn ec or more.
account unlock- warp to friend: 1bn ec
account unlock- unlimited bridge officers: 1bn ec
too rich for you?
transfer opened lockbox ship within your own account: 50m ec
account unlock- one spec point: 50m ec
you could sit down and dream these up all day. neat features that arent 'p2w', yet still highly desirable. these bound-to-account items would be sold by vendors, not in the cstore and not on the exchange. any ec spent on them would simply vanish from the economy. how many of those do you think theyd sell? i reckon a whole heap. maybe cryptic should consider selling something people want for ec if they want to reduce the amount of ec in the economy.
free jkname
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Even pre-DR I spent billions of EC on my arena chars. A "normal" User will struggle to ever see more than 10 mio EC in their bank.
Any new EC/Dil sinks are going to kill the game for most casual players. Right now it is already way too much - it even drove me away, a person that was trading with ships, I had entire bank tabs full of that stuff.
Crafting & upgrading 1 Ship Weapon to epic mk XIV (with perfect modifiers of course) shouldn't be more like 10mio EC in my opinion.
That is not true. The only weapon in that price range was an VR Elachi DBB [acc]x3. Most other weapons were around 10mio EC. I remember buying lots of those sets. If you wanted unpopular types like Polaron and Tetryon you even got perfect mods for 0.2-3mio EC. VR Polaron Turrets [acc]x3 were like 80.000 EC back then...
DOFFs and some Consoles had been the expensive stuff. Battery DOFF? How about spending 250mio EC
If you're asking me, all gear should be 100% free and selectable from the start to provide the best balance and fairness. If you want to spend money, there should be options for new skins and visuals. But well, I guess this is just the PvP Player speaking out of me...
I would've liked anything that would give a better sense of immersion, a reason to go back to a port and resupply your vessel or rotate crew for improved performance. Or stock up for a deep space voyage. But unfortunately, this isn't that game.
¿? Stop smoking what you are smoking and try again.. lol.
Because some people still dont understand that the upgrade system is an end-game feature. Meaning it is designed to keep you amused saving ec for many years... people still didnt realize that once pvp was eliminated ages ago, you reach a point in this game that you have nothing more to do. So, those "sinks" are designed to keep you playing when that point comes (same as the especialization tree). And the mechanics will never change, thats for sure.
Buy contraband -> turn in -> turn dil into EC -> repeat (very time consuming, but it's more than 100% profit)
I know it's stupid, and I was way too lazy for that, but it really works and has one of the games highest ROIs.
In the top team matches everyone had perfect equip - getting better gear wasn't an option, it was only about skill, communication, strategies and competition.
Getting rich in this game truly isn't difficult as long as one is willing to actually put the time into playing it.
(I'm sitting on about 580 million with my nine toons)
There's plenty of things to buy with EC's in the game also if one wants to super-gear-up for STF's.
No need to add more.
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion
Congratz, these 58 million EC won't be enough to max out 1% of 1 character!
I'm not saying you need that (well, actually you can beat all PvE content with mission rewards), but if you wanted, there's no chance for ppl like you!
But there you have it, someone who claims to play since early 2009 (according to his signature) who never had any EC at all in this game. (don't be angry, but 58mio EC that's really almost nothing in the world of STO)
If anything, this game needs to remove 90% of Dil and EC sinks.
I know that I might have been somewhere in the 1-3% at the top and that I could afford anything in this game. If I had to guess, I'd say that guys like repetitiveepic and OP are even way richer than I was. I wouldn't be suprised if they were at the top 0.01% and it's almost funny that it's always these guys crying for more dil and ec sinks - just to make the gap between them and the avarage players bigger.
Here's the problem with that: You're setting up huge honkin' carrots for everyone who isn't quite as space rich to chase after. You're giving even more incentive to farm, play the exchange, etc which results in even more liquidity in EC, thus negating the whole purpose of introducing steep EC cost items in the first place.
How in the world did you do that? My DRs didn't even break 10m including the hefty chunks of bonus cash they get for the various goal completions.
Only expenses that total remove the ec's permanently from the economy are sinks. Things like fleet holdings.
EC sinks can, if large enough, reduce the total ecs in the entire STO economy. This will reduce the prices in the exchange. That is a good thing.
Reminds me how some players will complain about how expensive zen is in dil but the same players cry when anything requiring dil is added to the game to keep zen prices in check. 'Crypic is stealing my dil!' they cry.
Most of the stuff from the exchange was payed before with EC/Dil/Zen that were permanently removed from the game. So yes, it's a sink even if it's not the your money that's getting removed.
Also, sinks can be good thing, but cryptic tends to connect 'em to p2w in most cases. On the other hand, I love all sinks related to uniforms, pets, bridges and stuff.
If you guys were asking for unique 1mio ZEN Uniforms or 1 billion EC dogs - great, go ahead.
I have to agree with some points. Just to make my point of view very very clear to everyone:
- p2w sinks (gear, traits, ships, etc) -> disgusting
- cosmetic sinks (uniforms, non combat pets, titles, bridges, customization, skins) -> awesome, love 'em
In fact, I believe, in a perfect game, all balance related items (gear, ships, traits, doffs...you get the point) should be 100% free for all from the very start. I'd even love to have a button to create a maxed out character (lvl, RnD, spec tree, rep, etc).
This is the only way to guarantee a fair and competitive gaming environment. If you really want to be special and want to spend money - go get some custom visuals.
And yes, before you guys start asking: I would spend lots of money on that stuff just to promote this awesome and fair game model.
Even though I think we already had this discussion somewhere else: Yes, CS:GO is exacly what I am playing right now since I quit STO. Still I would love to have that business model in STO aswell - its just one of my fundamental convictions that a game should be fair to be enjoyable.
The things is... I Don't Feel The Need To Have EVERYTHING In The Game.
(even thought through the years I've probably collected every ship They've released at least once)
I have my own Fleet for the nine toons and don't do PvP anymore, so I'm quite content with how much I've managed to acquire.
NOT having billions of EC's, in no way effects my enjoyment of playing the game.
I Was A Trekkie Before It Was Cool ... Sept. 8th, 1966 ... Not To Mention Before Most Folks Around Here Were Born!
Forever a STO Veteran-Minion