While having Romulus and Remus back would be all types of awesome, simply for preventing the massive loss of life, there are problems. Not the least of which are the decline the old Empire was already on and the danger it was to its own people.
It'd be interesting to see where the Tal'Shiar would've went had they not toyed with Iconian tech, but we already know that they were knee-deep in Borg tech well before Hobus. Even if the Iconian factor is removed, Romulus was doomed to fall at some point due to incompetent leadership - and the death toll likely would've been much greater in the not-too-distant future.
That all said, I'm not a fan of going back to muck up the past. Having Romulus and Remus back... yeah, that's tempting. But re-paving the road of history isn't something we should really have the ability to do.
If romulus was never destroyed the republic never existed. Remember what the temporal agent says on the flotilla.
The Republic does NOT want to see the timeline changed to bring back Romulus.
This new Tales of the war is as bad as #14
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
You know if they do manage to restore Romulus then it could be an excuse to turn the Romulan Republic/Romulan Empire into a fully fledged faction instead of the half-faction it currently is. Since they won't lose a large portion of their population to the Hobus Supernova they won't be a third-rate power dependent on Fed and Klingon support, they'll be a large power in and of themselves. Of course I highly doubt Cryptic could actually pull this off given the current state of the game (and any drastic change like this would mean throwing out most of the early missions) but it's still fun to think about.
Bear in mind that by undoing the Hobus incident, Spock will not have tried to stop the subspace reaction with red matter. This means that both he and the Nerada would never go back and create the alternative timeline of the JJverse. I'm not sure if that's a good thing or not...
I remember that a while back that Paramount Pictures (and maybe some other copyright holders of the Star Trek franchise) had plans of merging the Abrams universe with the Prime universe (the one where TOS, Next GEN, DS9, VOY, ENT and STO take place). Maybe this is it; the use of Annorax' temporal vessel to alter the timeline.
Stay cautious and remember, not every incursion with the vessel produced the right outcome. It could create an even more powerful opponent to fill the vacuum.
Also remember - CBS will not allow them to rewrite trek lore that much They can change the games present, but it's doubtful Romulus will meet a different fate.
Please let this be the start to bring the romulans back into the power base that they once were these romulans we have at the moment are a shadow of the former selves and suck up to the feds and kdf. Romulans are a cunning and deceitful people please make them that. Then I may go back to playing my romulan more
NO TO ARC
Vice Admiral Volmack ISS Thundermole
Brigadier General Jokag IKS Gorkan
Centurion Kares RRW Tomalak
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
You are vastly naive if you actually think there'll be any permanent changes outside of one mission where the weapon's incursions will be promptly undone, everybody involved made to look like an idiot and the ship thrown in another bottomless money pit lockbox.
"I have made a detailed study of the records left behind by the Krenim inventor of this technology," Sann said, sipping his drink. "Annorax, wished to restore something very specific that the Krenim had lost. In his later writings, he speculated that time itself was fighting against him."
Wait, what? We have Annorax's writings from the timeline that was erased at the end of 'Year of Hell, Part II"? Or did he discombobulate something in this timeline as well?
This is why I hate temporal mechanics...
I believe it was stated in "Time in a Bottle" that the Krenim were capable of observing alternate timelines, and were aware of the basic events of the Annorax's mission. They didn't know Voyager was involved, though.
But yeah, this is not going to end well.
I find it suspicious they claim to only know basic events of Annorax's mission, they could be lying to us and have a score to settle with Starfleet by tricking the alliance, or at least some in the Krenim may be bitter against Starfleet for stopping Annorax from completely or near completely restoring the Imperium. There could be quite a conspiracy here.
Kurland decides the fate of humanity rests on a trade in 1918. Obviously Bostons trade of the Bambino was a Iconian plot. It is no coincidence the the STO servers are in Boston.......
Seriously, you can't tell me Adranna is the only problem you people see, how many Higher ups have agendas here, How many plans do Section 31 and other factions have in motion? This Time-Ship is a Pie that everyone wants a piece of. This ship and it's potential use, could be a whole season.
Ok they give me the timeship because adranna is an idiot and disaster waiting to happen i mean common whats the worst that could happen?
*momments later the universe explodes for the 610th time*
DAMNIT TOVAN!!! quit pressing the damn fire button now we gotta fix everything AGAIN!!
So if the Romulan Republic no longer exists, does this mean that the Zen, Lobi and dilithium I spent on Romulan ships and equipment shall suddenly be restored when the purchased ships and equipment suddenly never happened?
Cheers... Admiral Cybyl
Thus spake Admiral Cybyl: Alea iacta est. Ibis redibis,numquam per bello peribis. Ergo, per aspera ad astra!
The Doctor suddenly pops out into the room, "Perhaps you should listen from an expert. There are some points in the time stream which are Fixed points in time. Events which MUST happen. That nothing and no amount of meddling can alter. The destruction of Praxus, the Destruction of Krypton, Alderaan. All of these are Fixxed points in time. And if you break a fixxed point. You destroy Time it's self."
"SECURITY!"
Then they watch as the Doctor pops out in a flash of light.
Temporal Weapon Officer's log, Stardate...oh, heck! Who am I kidding? I get paid to mess with TIME! Who knows what Stardate it is by now!
Things to do today (whenever today is):
Erase Tasha Yar from the timeline. This not only prevents Sela from being born, but saves Romulus, prevents the Republic from forming, gets Tovan off our ships, probably keeps Adranna from being born, and gives STO something to do after the Iconians are finished), It also lets Armus kill Troi, which keeps her from piloting the Enterprise-D to its destruction in Generations. This probably means TNG runs another 3 seasons. Yay!
See, Temporal Weapons simplify things AND make your DVD library better! Everybody wins (except for Adranna, Sela, Tasha, Tovan and Troi, but who cares?)!
Alternatively, use the device to save Edith Keeler. This causes the Axis to win WWII, which leaves STO set in the Mirror Universe - where the Iconians are peaceful goatee-wearing evergy/crystal beings, who we can easily conquer. While not as great, I now want to see a picture of an Iconian with a goatee! Also, in the Mirror Universe, Enterprise only has 2 episodes with its crappy theme song, while all the others have the Mirror Universe credits, so we're that much ahead, too! So your DVD library is STILL better!
Not surprising-looks like using time travel to bring back Romulus is going to off the table. Presumably we'll have an episode coming up with time travel-since it looks like that's what we'll be doing to get rid of the Iconians. Romulus will probably come back as part of it, but it will probably come back 'wrong' and we'll have to fix it/blow it up, because Romulus was 'fated' to be destroyed or some such hogwash.
Of course, butterfly effect and all that means that one's actions while time traveling can have wild, unpredictable effects-but considering all the times we have already pulled it off without a hitch in the game already, I can't help but roll my eyes at this.
Of course time travel won't bring back Romulus (although considering the causes of the sueprnova can be tracked to the actions of a handful of individuals, it should be simple compared to what the Krenim were doing) Cryptic has already established the Republic as a faction, so they'll never let us play as the Star Empire. Furthermore, bringing them back would completely torpedo the Republic/Federation/Klingon alliance we have going, and would basically undo all of the plot up until this point. Not even Cryptic would be up for that, I hope.
can we just reverse the timeline for a day or two, bring back Romulus, and beam down and get some decent Romulan outfits and a Romulan science-ship or two? Then you can put time back, we're cool
LUKARI GUERILLA GARDENING MILITIA - Glowing fingers are Growing fingers!
temporal baselines dictate that the cause of a temporal alteration cannot be erased as it would create a time paradox due to never having been done in the first place. Our anachronistic ahab here with his precious ship experienced that first hand. even if the ship itself is shielded against alterations to history, the timeflow seems to have some sort of innate safety mechanisms to divert events to avoid paradoxes from forming. However the restoration of things that happened past the interaction with krenims. erasing iconian attack fleets by destroying em while holding at a supply base would restore all of their former victims. One thing is for sure. Erasing the iconian sphere or iconian leaders due to their extreme age as the first seeded race by the first one in our galaxy would alter history in uncalculable ways.
time could also be used to fight iconians one on one, if it was possible to create a temporal displacement that would set the iconian brain tissue to a time before their creation, due to the chroniton entanglement of their brain their entire being would be set to that point. and be erased :O causing em to drop dead :O
ktamradio If you are looking for some nice music while playing clicky clicky click!
, It also lets Armus kill Troi, which keeps her from piloting the Enterprise-D to its destruction in Generations. This probably means TNG runs another 3 seasons. Yay!
Okay a little off topic but.. Why do people blame Troi for that?
The loss of the Enterprise D is 100% Riker's fault. He's the one who fumbled in the captain's chair and lost a fight to a Klingon garbage scow he should've easily won even without shields.
Moreover, even if you somehow blame Troi for not piloting the saucer away from the mess Riker caused.. Here's the thing. She is not a trained pilot. You know who *is* a trained pilot? Riker. And he orders the ship's psychiatrist to the helm.
What, was his beard in the way?
It's no wonder Riker took 14 years to get his own command, the man is a danger to himself and others.
I think the timeshot should be used to stop M'tara from blasting the Preservers so we get the information from the computer on how to stop them.
I might remember incorrectly, but I thought our delta recruits did get that information from the preserver computers. Or at least information about the Icconians.
I, for one, would like to see a Season (give or take) of an altered timeline as a result of this.
Something to shake things up, offer different versions of maps, ships, and equipment, even if it's for a relatively short time, and for the sake of variety still be available in various forms when the altered timeline is over.
What if the thing we need to do is fourfold with history being changed. Only slightly and not anything that isn't drastic in nature, since Time be like "oh no you didn't~" when we try changing drastic things.
First - Restore the Krenim to power, but not the old empire. Rather bring the current one from out of hiding and on even level with us. Yes, that will likely lead to bad things later (the Time War), but it would need to be done because of the bad things later and things that need to get done right now. We need their technology, to alter time to our advantage at the moment.
Two - Find, discover and bring back "The Other". The Other will be the key factor to us winning the war. I first thought it was the Krenim, but I now think the Other is a long since dead race. Maybe the Tkon Empire? They did rule the Alpha Quadrant long ago. Though, that's basically like the Krenim. We're adding to problems later that we don't want now.
Three - Bring the Gamma Quadrant/Dominion into the fight. This will be another "this is going to be bad later" for us, but we need the strength of the Gamma Quadrant. In fact, that might be one of the game changers is to go back into the past and start trying to round up the Gamma Quadrant to aid us. Will be difficult, but necessary.
Four - Kill T'Ket. This is probably the biggest thing that needs to be changed. It'll still mean we fight the Iconians, but them losing one of their own out of the gate is a much better prospect than who dies later. Also, it would make the Emperor a hero instead of a martyr, which will likely lead to a rejuvenated cause. Also, we'll probably figure out some way to kill them easier.
That's what I'm thinking we need to do with trying to play with time.
Ironically I ran the numbers myself, the best shot at ending the war with the weapon is to use it on the Iconia Sphere, this has 3 possible outcomes.
Outcome 1 - The Iconians move into the Solenea Sphere and survive in the Delta Quadrant, this results in the war being kickstarted earlier with us (and possibly the Voth) invading their current home directly although more likely with the Solenea race acting as their heralds as such potentially weakening the invasion as a whole, this is what we call the best case scenario.
Outcome 2 - The Iconians don't move into a sphere and are wiped out, the Undine never attempt an invasion of the Alpha/Beta Quadrants, Romulus survives, and the new universe is a political minefield for our characters who are used to a universe where the three major powers are allied against a single threat. This is our middle of the road scenario.
Outcome 3 - The Iconians move into the Jenolan sphere instead and the war is kickstarted 110 years earlier by the USS Jenolan crashing into the Sphere which the Iconians view as an attack upon them, our captains, should they be born at all, are born into a universe where they are mere slaves to their glorious Iconian Masters and rebellions are squashed quickly should they arise at all due to the lack of advancement in technologies mandated by the Iconians to prevent a rebellion.
, It also lets Armus kill Troi, which keeps her from piloting the Enterprise-D to its destruction in Generations. This probably means TNG runs another 3 seasons. Yay!
Okay a little off topic but.. Why do people blame Troi for that?
[SNIP]
I don't, actually. My entire post was intended humourously. I probably should have chucked in an extra couple of smileys to clarify that! Sorry.
On topic: 100% agree about Adranna. WTF is she doing still employed on ANY important project? In addition to her incompetence and her history of Undine influence, the fact that she's a bobble-head toon with a strident, annoying voice doesn't help, either. Unlike Troi, she's one character I really WOULD be happy to see killed off.
Time ship usage debate aside (doom doom DOOM), there are three elements, which others have mentioned, that some how well be evolved in what ever happens: the Dominion, the preserver's cryptic comments, and the Other.
... even if they did restore Romulus, it wouldn't be a free Romulus. It would probably have the same brutal dictatorship as before it was blown up.
I would have to agree. While the loss of life involved with the destruction of Romulus and Remus was horrible, it along with the Iconian threat did have the effect of bringing together some of the largest powers in the alpha and beta quadrents. It is unrealistic of them to think that they will be able to use that weapon to change things in a way that leaves the universe just as it is today, just without the iconians attacking...
Plus they're not thinking about other capabilities that ship has, that could allow an offensive against the Iconians without altering the timeline. I've expounded upon those in other threads.
Stay cautious and remember, not every incursion with the vessel produced the right outcome. It could create an even more powerful opponent to fill the vacuum.
Also remember - CBS will not allow them to rewrite trek lore that much They can change the games present, but it's doubtful Romulus will meet a different fate.
That is a VERY good point right there. This attempt, if it goes forward, is IMO doomed to fail.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-) Proudly F2P.Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
That is a VERY good point right there. This attempt, if it goes forward, is IMO doomed to fail.
Of course it is, I've said before that they've mentioned it too much for the weapon not to be fired, but it's too clean a solution for it to actually work as planned.
Comments
If romulus was never destroyed the republic never existed. Remember what the temporal agent says on the flotilla.
The Republic does NOT want to see the timeline changed to bring back Romulus.
This new Tales of the war is as bad as #14
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
THATS A GREAT THING
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
Also remember - CBS will not allow them to rewrite trek lore that much
"The higher the fewer."
Vice Admiral Volmack ISS Thundermole
Brigadier General Jokag IKS Gorkan
Centurion Kares RRW Tomalak
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I find it suspicious they claim to only know basic events of Annorax's mission, they could be lying to us and have a score to settle with Starfleet by tricking the alliance, or at least some in the Krenim may be bitter against Starfleet for stopping Annorax from completely or near completely restoring the Imperium. There could be quite a conspiracy here.
Ok they give me the timeship because adranna is an idiot and disaster waiting to happen i mean common whats the worst that could happen?
*momments later the universe explodes for the 610th time*
DAMNIT TOVAN!!! quit pressing the damn fire button now we gotta fix everything AGAIN!!
Cheers... Admiral Cybyl
"SECURITY!"
Then they watch as the Doctor pops out in a flash of light.
Things to do today (whenever today is):
Erase Tasha Yar from the timeline. This not only prevents Sela from being born, but saves Romulus, prevents the Republic from forming, gets Tovan off our ships, probably keeps Adranna from being born, and gives STO something to do after the Iconians are finished), It also lets Armus kill Troi, which keeps her from piloting the Enterprise-D to its destruction in Generations. This probably means TNG runs another 3 seasons. Yay!
See, Temporal Weapons simplify things AND make your DVD library better! Everybody wins (except for Adranna, Sela, Tasha, Tovan and Troi, but who cares?)!
Alternatively, use the device to save Edith Keeler. This causes the Axis to win WWII, which leaves STO set in the Mirror Universe - where the Iconians are peaceful goatee-wearing evergy/crystal beings, who we can easily conquer. While not as great, I now want to see a picture of an Iconian with a goatee!
Whee!
Of course, butterfly effect and all that means that one's actions while time traveling can have wild, unpredictable effects-but considering all the times we have already pulled it off without a hitch in the game already, I can't help but roll my eyes at this.
Of course time travel won't bring back Romulus (although considering the causes of the sueprnova can be tracked to the actions of a handful of individuals, it should be simple compared to what the Krenim were doing) Cryptic has already established the Republic as a faction, so they'll never let us play as the Star Empire. Furthermore, bringing them back would completely torpedo the Republic/Federation/Klingon alliance we have going, and would basically undo all of the plot up until this point. Not even Cryptic would be up for that, I hope.
Quoth the Raven "Nevermore"
time could also be used to fight iconians one on one, if it was possible to create a temporal displacement that would set the iconian brain tissue to a time before their creation, due to the chroniton entanglement of their brain their entire being would be set to that point. and be erased :O causing em to drop dead :O
Okay a little off topic but.. Why do people blame Troi for that?
The loss of the Enterprise D is 100% Riker's fault. He's the one who fumbled in the captain's chair and lost a fight to a Klingon garbage scow he should've easily won even without shields.
Moreover, even if you somehow blame Troi for not piloting the saucer away from the mess Riker caused.. Here's the thing. She is not a trained pilot. You know who *is* a trained pilot? Riker. And he orders the ship's psychiatrist to the helm.
What, was his beard in the way?
It's no wonder Riker took 14 years to get his own command, the man is a danger to himself and others.
I might remember incorrectly, but I thought our delta recruits did get that information from the preserver computers. Or at least information about the Icconians.
Something to shake things up, offer different versions of maps, ships, and equipment, even if it's for a relatively short time, and for the sake of variety still be available in various forms when the altered timeline is over.
First - Restore the Krenim to power, but not the old empire. Rather bring the current one from out of hiding and on even level with us. Yes, that will likely lead to bad things later (the Time War), but it would need to be done because of the bad things later and things that need to get done right now. We need their technology, to alter time to our advantage at the moment.
Two - Find, discover and bring back "The Other". The Other will be the key factor to us winning the war. I first thought it was the Krenim, but I now think the Other is a long since dead race. Maybe the Tkon Empire? They did rule the Alpha Quadrant long ago. Though, that's basically like the Krenim. We're adding to problems later that we don't want now.
Three - Bring the Gamma Quadrant/Dominion into the fight. This will be another "this is going to be bad later" for us, but we need the strength of the Gamma Quadrant. In fact, that might be one of the game changers is to go back into the past and start trying to round up the Gamma Quadrant to aid us. Will be difficult, but necessary.
Four - Kill T'Ket. This is probably the biggest thing that needs to be changed. It'll still mean we fight the Iconians, but them losing one of their own out of the gate is a much better prospect than who dies later. Also, it would make the Emperor a hero instead of a martyr, which will likely lead to a rejuvenated cause. Also, we'll probably figure out some way to kill them easier.
That's what I'm thinking we need to do with trying to play with time.
Outcome 1 - The Iconians move into the Solenea Sphere and survive in the Delta Quadrant, this results in the war being kickstarted earlier with us (and possibly the Voth) invading their current home directly although more likely with the Solenea race acting as their heralds as such potentially weakening the invasion as a whole, this is what we call the best case scenario.
Outcome 2 - The Iconians don't move into a sphere and are wiped out, the Undine never attempt an invasion of the Alpha/Beta Quadrants, Romulus survives, and the new universe is a political minefield for our characters who are used to a universe where the three major powers are allied against a single threat. This is our middle of the road scenario.
Outcome 3 - The Iconians move into the Jenolan sphere instead and the war is kickstarted 110 years earlier by the USS Jenolan crashing into the Sphere which the Iconians view as an attack upon them, our captains, should they be born at all, are born into a universe where they are mere slaves to their glorious Iconian Masters and rebellions are squashed quickly should they arise at all due to the lack of advancement in technologies mandated by the Iconians to prevent a rebellion.
So yeah, weapon=bad idea.
I don't, actually. My entire post was intended humourously. I probably should have chucked in an extra couple of smileys to clarify that! Sorry.
On topic: 100% agree about Adranna. WTF is she doing still employed on ANY important project? In addition to her incompetence and her history of Undine influence, the fact that she's a bobble-head toon with a strident, annoying voice doesn't help, either. Unlike Troi, she's one character I really WOULD be happy to see killed off.
Plus they're not thinking about other capabilities that ship has, that could allow an offensive against the Iconians without altering the timeline. I've expounded upon those in other threads.
That is a VERY good point right there. This attempt, if it goes forward, is IMO doomed to fail.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-)
Proudly F2P. Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
Of course it is, I've said before that they've mentioned it too much for the weapon not to be fired, but it's too clean a solution for it to actually work as planned.